Your first post in the topic went right to having a dig at Elorram for copying features and the whole Forge community for being competitive. This is not a con against Forge, this is an attack because you have a disagreement with the developers and you extending it to all modders who use forge (which I am part of).
It's absolutely a con against Forge. It may be an opinion, but so is pretty much every other post in this thread.
If one of the primary developers and founding members of it is using it as a platform to copy features from, and compete with, other Forge mods, I think that's a HUGE con for any developer considering joining it. If that attitude is also permeating the other developers working on it (which I believe it is), again...HUGE con.
And it also remains valid in that the Forge continues to exhibit those tendencies, such as in what it's currently trying to do with Modloader and Risugami.
Does anyone here really think it's valid for them to be blatantly advertising what is basically a competing mod in his very thread while he is being subjected to relentless update pesters?
Seriously? How is that possibly justifiable? The guy has been largely keeping modding going single-handedly for a couple of years now, and any modders here owe him a debt of gratitude as a result. Does he really deserve that kind of treatment?
I believe that's reflected on LexManos's personal view of how Risugami seems to not want to advance farther than simply giving a method of not editing base class files.
No, that's just the public show, and honestly I think it was made in an attempt to court me back into the Forge. Lex has admitted to me point blank that she's still involved.
Anyways, Risu definately deserves mad respect, but as I posted a couple pages ago, if he was refusing to let them use ML in the modpack they were building, why should they not make their own?
Respect perhaps? How is that any better than what Technic did to many of the Forge authors?
Respect perhaps? How is that any better than what Technic did to many of the Forge authors?
It was said the last time I was in the Forge IRC channel. If you can get hold of logs and search for my name, you'll likely find it.
About how long ago? I'm always in there, and i have way too many logs
Respect perhaps? How is that any better than what Technic did to many of the Forge authors?
That isn't really a plausible comparison. Technic just takes other peoples work without permission. They aren't totally rewriting those mods on their own from the ground up. Also, wasn't it Searge that made that post you referred to in the ML thread (ie, the guy behind MCP, who is not involved in Forge AFAIK)
As a random point, when you first left Forge, I was expecting a lot of anger towards Technic since they had had BTW until just before then.. was very surprised to learn the real reason.
After not looking at this post for a couple days, I kind of expected a huge post war about Forge.
Anyways, I don't know much about FlowerChild deal with Forge. I'm guessing from reading the post is that Eloramm copied a windmill idea or something like that. Right?
If one of the primary developers and founding members of it is using it as a platform to copy features from, and compete with, other Forge mods, I think that's a HUGE con for any developer considering joining it. If that attitude is also permeating the other developers working on it (which I believe it is), again...HUGE con.
This is one thing I've never understood. If someone wanted to copy features, why would it matter whether or not the target was using Forge? Couldn't they just read the forum post, or install it without Forge to check it out, or, well, whatever?
After not looking at this post for a couple days, I kind of expected a huge post war about Forge.
Anyways, I don't know much about FlowerChild deal with Forge. I'm guessing from reading the post is that Eloramm copied a windmill idea or something like that. Right?
That's something different (though I guess he would say it's part of "a long trend"?).
I'm guessing from reading the post is that Eloramm copied a windmill idea or something like that.
She put a horizontal windmill in her mod and FC feels she was copying him.
The only modders other then FlowerChild i've seen dislike forge are cut/paste modders that barely know anything about java
That isn't really fair to say. There are quite a few good mods that don't use forge, such as Swords+ by StarShadesJack, BTW by FC, Ugocraft by.. some Japanese guy, Gulliver, etc etc
That isn't really fair to say. There are quite a few good mods that don't use forge, such as Swords+ by StarShadesJack, BTW by FC, Ugocraft by.. some Japanese guy, etc
I don't think "not using Forge" is equivalent to "disliking Forge".
I don't think "not using Forge" is equivalent to "disliking Forge".
Have any of them, besides FC, publicly stated their reasons to not use forge? They most likely all have valid reasons, such as a lack of the need of it.
Are modloader mods installed with FML still restricted by the amount of sprite indices? I would assume that they are, but can someone clarify?
EDIT: Missed your post. Do you have any details on the reasons?
About how long ago? I'm always in there, and i have way too many logs
4 months I think? Lex asked me to pop by the IRC on my own forums, so I might be able to find a more precise date from that (or alternatively, check my forums for that invitation for the precise date).
Does anyone here really think it's valid for them to be blatantly advertising what is basically a competing mod in his very thread while he is being subjected to relentless update pesters?
Ohh I agree with you here, that is not on. In fact I have been in both situations, the author of the thread when people posting advertisements of competing mods as well as the compete In the former situation I just ignored the user (may have said something along the lines of "both mods do similar things, try both and decide which you like"). In the latter situation it was another user saying the other mod would be great if it had X,Y & Z (which mine had). I didn't think it would be right to post on the thread so I PMd the user in question. I am not sure if this would also be bad in your eyes or in some sort of grey area (which i kinda see it in)
It's absolutely a con against Forge. It may be an opinion, but so is pretty much every other post in this thread.
If one of the primary developers and founding members of it is using it as a platform to copy features from, and compete with, other Forge mods, I think that's a HUGE con for any developer considering joining it. If that attitude is also permeating the other developers working on it (which I believe it is), again...HUGE con.
It's entirely relevant to the conversation.
The thing is I don't really see this. I have seen much more "feature copying" in this community (i.e. MinecraftForums) then in any Forge only community. I think this behavior isn't confined to forge but more something that is wrong with this community in general.
The thing is I don't really see this. I have seen much more "feature copying" in this community (i.e. MinecraftForums) then in any Forge only community. I think this behavior isn't confined to forge but more something that is wrong with this community in general.
I won't really disagree with you there man, as I just think it's not kosher all around, but my only direct experience with it has been Forge related.
When I quit the Forge, it wasn't even directly as a result of my own features being copied, but rather SpaceToad's with regards to his pipes. The three of us had basically founded the Forge together, and each put a lot of work into various aspects of it, and to see one of us pull something like that...
I had previously had issues with Eloraam, but that, along with her explanation that it was related to her getting drunk on absynthe (you can check her own blog for that), was just too much for me to handle. Writing off a personal betrayal like that as "I was drunk" is hela-lame.
To me, the Forge originally held the promise of representing a new day in collaboration between mod-authors, similar to what me and SpaceToad wound up doing with Better Then Buildcraft. Instead, it became some kind of competitive thing where the supposed partners were busting out a ruler to see who was bigger.
Yes, this pissed me off mightily, and I don't think it ever stopped.
I think it's fair to say that something happened. Why does it always seem that there's a tendency to assume the worst, though?
That all goes back to the history of the situation. Given my original experiences with the Forge, and given that I first threw my support behind it, then felt obliged to make myself look like an ass and break player's worlds in the process, I naturally tend to distrust anything that comes out of it.
That all goes back to the history of the situation. Given my original experiences with the Forge, and given that I first threw my support behind it, then felt obliged to make myself look like an ass and break player's worlds in the process, I naturally tend to distrust anything that comes out of it.
I can't blame you at all for that. It would be unreasonable to, since I do seem to recall one of your original concerns with implementing a lot into Forge was breaking people's worlds.
Do you happen to know what was SpaceToad's opinion on the whole thing before he left Minecraft modding?
Buildcraft pipes are pretty lackluster, especially considering RP tubes are vastly superior in pretty much every way conceivable.
As well, she wants to add functionality to her mod that would benefit from a pipe-like system, but doesn't want to force people into using BC, so making something similar seems pretty damn logical to me.
That sounds very reasonable but, well, I dunno. I guess I just don't see it as that much of a betrayal. BC is great and all, and I am not trying to diss all the work SpaceToad did, which is certainly more than I will ever accomplish here. But as a player, RP2 tubes seem far more functional and well, less ugly - and I certainly wouldn't apologize for preferring them over BC pipes, which have always seemed a bit nonsensical to me (ie. pointing an engine at a pipe made of wood causes suction into pipes made of stone?) Either way, they are certainly nothing alike aside from the basic premise of moving items around, and while I'm repeating myself, I'll say it again - they would have fit BTW a lot better than BC pipes ever did, imo.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if she had planned her mod around having it item transport, why should she stick with what she would believe to be a subjectively inferior system for it? But then we get into the whole thing about sand castles and all that, so meh.
Buildcraft pipes are pretty lackluster, especially considering RP tubes are vastly superior in pretty much every way conceivable.
As well, she wants to add functionality to her mod that would benefit from a pipe-like system, but doesn't want to force people into using BC, so making something similar seems pretty damn logical to me.
Read paragraphs 2 and 9. I think it's pretty important to understand the context of this whole situation before passing a judgement, which honestly, the whole community could benefit from.
...
And so we go back to internal modding politics vs. end-user products.
It's absolutely a con against Forge. It may be an opinion, but so is pretty much every other post in this thread.
If one of the primary developers and founding members of it is using it as a platform to copy features from, and compete with, other Forge mods, I think that's a HUGE con for any developer considering joining it. If that attitude is also permeating the other developers working on it (which I believe it is), again...HUGE con.
It's entirely relevant to the conversation.
I believe that's reflected on LexManos's personal view of how Risugami seems to not want to advance farther than simply giving a method of not editing base class files.
May we have proof of this?
Respect perhaps? How is that any better than what Technic did to many of the Forge authors?
It was said the last time I was in the Forge IRC channel. If you can get hold of logs and search for my name, you'll likely find it.
About how long ago? I'm always in there, and i have way too many logs
That isn't really a plausible comparison. Technic just takes other peoples work without permission. They aren't totally rewriting those mods on their own from the ground up. Also, wasn't it Searge that made that post you referred to in the ML thread (ie, the guy behind MCP, who is not involved in Forge AFAIK)
As a random point, when you first left Forge, I was expecting a lot of anger towards Technic since they had had BTW until just before then.. was very surprised to learn the real reason.
You don't keep your own logs stored locally?
Well, at least someone does.
Anyways, I don't know much about FlowerChild deal with Forge. I'm guessing from reading the post is that Eloramm copied a windmill idea or something like that. Right?
This is one thing I've never understood. If someone wanted to copy features, why would it matter whether or not the target was using Forge? Couldn't they just read the forum post, or install it without Forge to check it out, or, well, whatever?
That's something different (though I guess he would say it's part of "a long trend"?).
She put a horizontal windmill in her mod and FC feels she was copying him.
That isn't really fair to say. There are quite a few good mods that don't use forge, such as Swords+ by StarShadesJack, BTW by FC, Ugocraft by.. some Japanese guy, Gulliver, etc etc
Have any of them, besides FC, publicly stated their reasons to not use forge? They most likely all have valid reasons, such as a lack of the need of it.Are modloader mods installed with FML still restricted by the amount of sprite indices? I would assume that they are, but can someone clarify?
EDIT: Missed your post. Do you have any details on the reasons?
edit: Also, why do my posts keep getting this stupid background color >.>
4 months I think? Lex asked me to pop by the IRC on my own forums, so I might be able to find a more precise date from that (or alternatively, check my forums for that invitation for the precise date).
Ohh I agree with you here, that is not on. In fact I have been in both situations, the author of the thread when people posting advertisements of competing mods as well as the compete In the former situation I just ignored the user (may have said something along the lines of "both mods do similar things, try both and decide which you like"). In the latter situation it was another user saying the other mod would be great if it had X,Y & Z (which mine had). I didn't think it would be right to post on the thread so I PMd the user in question. I am not sure if this would also be bad in your eyes or in some sort of grey area (which i kinda see it in)
The thing is I don't really see this. I have seen much more "feature copying" in this community (i.e. MinecraftForums) then in any Forge only community. I think this behavior isn't confined to forge but more something that is wrong with this community in general.
http://sargunster.com/btwforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3854&p=60711#p60711
Judging from this thread:
I think it's fair to say that something happened. Why does it always seem that there's a tendency to assume the worst, though?
I won't really disagree with you there man, as I just think it's not kosher all around, but my only direct experience with it has been Forge related.
When I quit the Forge, it wasn't even directly as a result of my own features being copied, but rather SpaceToad's with regards to his pipes. The three of us had basically founded the Forge together, and each put a lot of work into various aspects of it, and to see one of us pull something like that...
I had previously had issues with Eloraam, but that, along with her explanation that it was related to her getting drunk on absynthe (you can check her own blog for that), was just too much for me to handle. Writing off a personal betrayal like that as "I was drunk" is hela-lame.
To me, the Forge originally held the promise of representing a new day in collaboration between mod-authors, similar to what me and SpaceToad wound up doing with Better Then Buildcraft. Instead, it became some kind of competitive thing where the supposed partners were busting out a ruler to see who was bigger.
Yes, this pissed me off mightily, and I don't think it ever stopped.
That all goes back to the history of the situation. Given my original experiences with the Forge, and given that I first threw my support behind it, then felt obliged to make myself look like an ass and break player's worlds in the process, I naturally tend to distrust anything that comes out of it.
I can't blame you at all for that. It would be unreasonable to, since I do seem to recall one of your original concerns with implementing a lot into Forge was breaking people's worlds.
Do you happen to know what was SpaceToad's opinion on the whole thing before he left Minecraft modding?
As well, she wants to add functionality to her mod that would benefit from a pipe-like system, but doesn't want to force people into using BC, so making something similar seems pretty damn logical to me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if she had planned her mod around having it item transport, why should she stick with what she would believe to be a subjectively inferior system for it? But then we get into the whole thing about sand castles and all that, so meh.
http://www.eloraam.com/?p=198
Read paragraphs 2 and 9. I think it's pretty important to understand the context of this whole situation before passing a judgement, which honestly, the whole community could benefit from.
...
And so we go back to internal modding politics vs. end-user products.