This has gone beyond the point of a misunderstanding, and is erupting into new GT vs TiC terratory. There are talks of Greg going solo from IC2 in the future. If he does, I'd stop using IC2, and I know many others would do too.
Bit more than talks. And a bit more than just going solo from IC2. Latest news is that he's going for something like total conversion.
Here's the new repost that suggest that. http://forum.feed-th...-77#post-625684
And with how well he gets along with other mod devs GT will probably end up a stand alone mod that actively blocks the use of other mods.
Oh *censored*, that sounds like TFC (TerraFirmaCraft) all over again. Leave it to Greg to make things difficult.
On the main topic, I think the accusations are probably groundless. Unless tonius actually copied IC2 code I think he's perfectly justified in having somewhat similar code. He's no more endebted to IC2 than Minecraft is to Infiniminer (Yeah, I went there).
Not to mention I want to see RF powered jetpacks become a common thing because I love TE and the new RF system and I've always disliked IC2, especially IC2e where the recipes are ridiculously complex and you STILL can't safely break an IC2 machine with a non-electric wrench. I went directly to MPS Power Armor in my latest world because I wanted to steer clear of IC2e entirely. I wouldn't mind if IC2e, GT, and Buildcraft (With the exception of the quarry. RF powered quarry anyone?) were removed from FTB entirely like the Horizons pack is doing. They're just not up to the new standards of compatibility and versatility.
Minecraft YouTuber (DroidFreak36), and admin of the FreakCraft server (whitelisted, available to Minecraft YouTubers), now with an FTB version running a custom modpack called 'MuricaCraft (Where we aim to exploit the natural environment as much as possible, all in good fun of course).
IC2 has the same kind of compatibility as most other mods, which isn't build as an Addon (namely forge oredict).
GregTech has even more than most other mods (special generators for Thaumcraft, extra grinder recipes for other mod ores, machines can accept steam, not that long ago even MJ etc)
Not anymore. These days a lot of mods are a lot more compatible than that. I can take Extra Utilities generators, hook them up to Thermal Expansion conduits, and run MineFactory Reloaded machines. I can take a wrench from Applied Energistics and break down machines from TE or MFR. Most tech mods now run on ONE power system (RF, including on-the-fly MJ conversion) and use ONE type of wrench (originally the BuildCraft wrench, granted). IC2 and GT (well, TBPH I don't know what GT is doing) are some of the few exceptions.
As far as versatility, neither IC2/GT nor BuildCraft can stand up to the unified TE system or its various sub-mods. Itemducts + pneumatic servos are much more powerful and intuitive than Buildcraft pipes, allowing you to set up a sorting system by simply running itemducts over a row of barrels, no need for a ton of diamond pipes specifically configured for each individial item type. IC2 has no pipes at all and relies on another mod like TE or BC for automation. TE and MFR both have fast autocrafting systems, IC2 doesn't and BC's one is incredibly slow. TE and OpenBlocks (which admittedly doesn't integrate with RF because it doesn't have powered machines yet) allow the faces of their machines to be configured to allow for compact automation.
You clearly like the easier way to play (which is ok), but should there also be a mod pack for those who like the more challenging way? If we abandon one playstyle for the easy public use (namely ftb)(easy in terms of easy to use the pack, Item IDs, configs etc) more and more mods will only develope for this kind of playstyle and the others lose the ability to play their style.
There should be both play styles directly supported in FTB.
Sure, I'm not saying that you can't have a more difficult system if you want. But that's part of the reason why the FTB team makes multiple modpacks (although the 1.6 packs don't reflect that much). Just like there used to be Ultimate w/ GT and Ultimate w/o GT and then there was Unleashed and Unhinged, you can set up multiple modpacks with different playstyles. If you want to suffer, play GT or IC2e (or TFC if you're really a masochist), but what most people want out of FTB is to be empowered by the mods to do greater things, not bogged down by realism. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess the reason that the Unhinged pack (which Greg personally helped put together) has no 1.6 analog is that very few people wanted to play it (Sure enough, when I looked up Unleashed and Unhinged YouTube videos there were 16 times as many Unleashed videos). FTB players don't want to be "leashed" by mods, they want to be empowered. But if you want to play hard mods, there's nothing stopping you, just don't expect mainline FTB packs to keep including them when FTB players don't want them.
And while we're on the subject of different playstyles, there's a whole other playstyle (if not more) we havn't mentioned, the style of the adventurer/LPer who just wants to explore and crawl dungeons. You don't see modpacks like the Mad Pack or Hexxit hosted by FTB, but no one complains because that's not what FTB is about. FTB was founded on the playstyle of allowing you to do more awesome things (in a fairly balanced way), and a lot of the older mods aren't fullfiling that purpose any more.
Minecraft YouTuber (DroidFreak36), and admin of the FreakCraft server (whitelisted, available to Minecraft YouTubers), now with an FTB version running a custom modpack called 'MuricaCraft (Where we aim to exploit the natural environment as much as possible, all in good fun of course).
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That is just wroung for ic2 to do that. Ic2 is not open source so he could of not copied his code. Plus they coded the samething so of course the code is going to be similar. Ic2 is not that great of a mod anymore they haven't had a "official" release is a couple of minecraft versions. They only have had builds on there Jenkins.
That is just wroung for ic2 to do that. Ic2 is not open source so he could of not copied his code. Plus they coded the samething so of course the code is going to be similar. Ic2 is not that great of a mod anymore they haven't had a "official" release is a couple of minecraft versions. They only have had builds on there Jenkins.
Since it's java, it can be decompiled to source, at least to a degree. IC2 wouldn't have made this claim if they didn't know for sure that it was possible for SJ to get the code.
Not that I think any code was copied or that what IC2 is doing is correct, just saying it's technically possible.
Since it's java, it can be decompiled to source, at least to a degree. IC2 wouldn't have made this claim if they didn't know for sure that it was possible for SJ to get the code.
Not that I think any code was copied or that what IC2 is doing is correct, just saying it's technically possible.
but ic2 is not the only mod out there with jet packs mekanism adds them also. I bet there code is similar also so.
Okay, so I just took a quick look at the code for the two mods, and I can back up what pretty much everyone else has said- the code is similar, yes, because they're two items intended for similar purposes.
That's where the similarities end.
I personally made note of a couple significant differences between the code just from what I can see right off the bat with JD-GUI. I won't be copying any source here directly out of respect for IC2's license, but I will be naming key differences.
First off: Starting from the bottom, the energy-handling methods are very different. Granted, part of this is because, well, it uses RF instead of EU. But the big difference I've noted is Simply Jetpacks has a very notable (and somewhat excessive) usage of variables, part of which comes from the customizability of these jetpacks. The functions are also very different- and again, this is apparent immediately just based on quantity. (Most notable is how adding and subtracting energy is handled, part of which is, granted, because the IC2 Electric Jetpack is literally a slightly modified extension of the regular gas-powered Jetpack, whereas the Simply Jetpacks ones are built from the ground up to use RF.)
Second, the way the thrusting of the Jetpack is handled is rather different. As mentioned, it uses individual variables to determine thrust, speed, etc., whereas IC2's jetpack code has that information hardcoded. It also uses a very different (and probably more reliable) method for tracking keypresses, and also happens to be a lot easier to understand. The core code, namely the useJetpack() function, is also completely different.
I could bore you with a bunch of Java shenanigans that maybe half of the people reading this will understand, but I think I've made my point. Essentially, the two Jetpacks are about as similar as, say, a pulverizer and a macerator. Their function is more or less the same, and their code is undoubtedly rather similar (I'm not about to go look right now), but they're different enough that you can't say the Pulverizer is a copy of a Macerator.
tl;dr: "Not everyone who has a built a nice chair owes money to the guy that invented chairs" sums this up pretty nicely, as quoted by DZCreeper. The IC2 devs' claims are, unfortunately (for them), bogus. In fact, to be honest, I fail to see how anyone could've assumed the code was copied, as even someone without coding experience would be able to tell that's not the case.
Just reinforcing what's already been said, with more clarification as to what exactly's different (which is all the code that would actually matter enough to warrant accusations of plagiarism).
Also, if I'm to voice my personal opinion on the matter, even if there is code in Simply Jetpacks that's copied from IC2, it's been changed enough there's no solid proof it ever happened, and to add onto that, Simply Jetpacks does Jetpacks a lot better than IC2 does, as stated by several people, including, most notably, Etho. As such, there is really no good reason that the project would have to be shut down.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!! I quit using IC2 a while back. The only thing I really missed was Jetpacks!!! Wooohoooo, love this mod and I have not even downloaded tried it yet. Doing so now.
Bit more than talks. And a bit more than just going solo from IC2. Latest news is that he's going for something like total conversion.
Here's the new repost that suggest that.
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/whats-new-in-modded-minecraft-today.39595/page-77#post-625684
And with how well he gets along with other mod devs GT will probably end up a stand alone mod that actively blocks the use of other mods.
Oh *censored*, that sounds like TFC (TerraFirmaCraft) all over again. Leave it to Greg to make things difficult.
On the main topic, I think the accusations are probably groundless. Unless tonius actually copied IC2 code I think he's perfectly justified in having somewhat similar code. He's no more endebted to IC2 than Minecraft is to Infiniminer (Yeah, I went there).
Not to mention I want to see RF powered jetpacks become a common thing because I love TE and the new RF system and I've always disliked IC2, especially IC2e where the recipes are ridiculously complex and you STILL can't safely break an IC2 machine with a non-electric wrench. I went directly to MPS Power Armor in my latest world because I wanted to steer clear of IC2e entirely. I wouldn't mind if IC2e, GT, and Buildcraft (With the exception of the quarry. RF powered quarry anyone?) were removed from FTB entirely like the Horizons pack is doing. They're just not up to the new standards of compatibility and versatility.
10 or so people serviced.
If you do get it from me, be sure to spread it around.
Not anymore. These days a lot of mods are a lot more compatible than that. I can take Extra Utilities generators, hook them up to Thermal Expansion conduits, and run MineFactory Reloaded machines. I can take a wrench from Applied Energistics and break down machines from TE or MFR. Most tech mods now run on ONE power system (RF, including on-the-fly MJ conversion) and use ONE type of wrench (originally the BuildCraft wrench, granted). IC2 and GT (well, TBPH I don't know what GT is doing) are some of the few exceptions.
As far as versatility, neither IC2/GT nor BuildCraft can stand up to the unified TE system or its various sub-mods. Itemducts + pneumatic servos are much more powerful and intuitive than Buildcraft pipes, allowing you to set up a sorting system by simply running itemducts over a row of barrels, no need for a ton of diamond pipes specifically configured for each individial item type. IC2 has no pipes at all and relies on another mod like TE or BC for automation. TE and MFR both have fast autocrafting systems, IC2 doesn't and BC's one is incredibly slow. TE and OpenBlocks (which admittedly doesn't integrate with RF because it doesn't have powered machines yet) allow the faces of their machines to be configured to allow for compact automation.
Sure, I'm not saying that you can't have a more difficult system if you want. But that's part of the reason why the FTB team makes multiple modpacks (although the 1.6 packs don't reflect that much). Just like there used to be Ultimate w/ GT and Ultimate w/o GT and then there was Unleashed and Unhinged, you can set up multiple modpacks with different playstyles. If you want to suffer, play GT or IC2e (or TFC if you're really a masochist), but what most people want out of FTB is to be empowered by the mods to do greater things, not bogged down by realism. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess the reason that the Unhinged pack (which Greg personally helped put together) has no 1.6 analog is that very few people wanted to play it (Sure enough, when I looked up Unleashed and Unhinged YouTube videos there were 16 times as many Unleashed videos). FTB players don't want to be "leashed" by mods, they want to be empowered. But if you want to play hard mods, there's nothing stopping you, just don't expect mainline FTB packs to keep including them when FTB players don't want them.
And while we're on the subject of different playstyles, there's a whole other playstyle (if not more) we havn't mentioned, the style of the adventurer/LPer who just wants to explore and crawl dungeons. You don't see modpacks like the Mad Pack or Hexxit hosted by FTB, but no one complains because that's not what FTB is about. FTB was founded on the playstyle of allowing you to do more awesome things (in a fairly balanced way), and a lot of the older mods aren't fullfiling that purpose any more.
Since it's java, it can be decompiled to source, at least to a degree. IC2 wouldn't have made this claim if they didn't know for sure that it was possible for SJ to get the code.
Not that I think any code was copied or that what IC2 is doing is correct, just saying it's technically possible.
but ic2 is not the only mod out there with jet packs mekanism adds them also. I bet there code is similar also so.
That's where the similarities end.
I personally made note of a couple significant differences between the code just from what I can see right off the bat with JD-GUI. I won't be copying any source here directly out of respect for IC2's license, but I will be naming key differences.
First off: Starting from the bottom, the energy-handling methods are very different. Granted, part of this is because, well, it uses RF instead of EU. But the big difference I've noted is Simply Jetpacks has a very notable (and somewhat excessive) usage of variables, part of which comes from the customizability of these jetpacks. The functions are also very different- and again, this is apparent immediately just based on quantity. (Most notable is how adding and subtracting energy is handled, part of which is, granted, because the IC2 Electric Jetpack is literally a slightly modified extension of the regular gas-powered Jetpack, whereas the Simply Jetpacks ones are built from the ground up to use RF.)
Second, the way the thrusting of the Jetpack is handled is rather different. As mentioned, it uses individual variables to determine thrust, speed, etc., whereas IC2's jetpack code has that information hardcoded. It also uses a very different (and probably more reliable) method for tracking keypresses, and also happens to be a lot easier to understand. The core code, namely the useJetpack() function, is also completely different.
I could bore you with a bunch of Java shenanigans that maybe half of the people reading this will understand, but I think I've made my point. Essentially, the two Jetpacks are about as similar as, say, a pulverizer and a macerator. Their function is more or less the same, and their code is undoubtedly rather similar (I'm not about to go look right now), but they're different enough that you can't say the Pulverizer is a copy of a Macerator.
tl;dr: "Not everyone who has a built a nice chair owes money to the guy that invented chairs" sums this up pretty nicely, as quoted by DZCreeper. The IC2 devs' claims are, unfortunately (for them), bogus. In fact, to be honest, I fail to see how anyone could've assumed the code was copied, as even someone without coding experience would be able to tell that's not the case.
Just reinforcing what's already been said, with more clarification as to what exactly's different (which is all the code that would actually matter enough to warrant accusations of plagiarism).
Also, if I'm to voice my personal opinion on the matter, even if there is code in Simply Jetpacks that's copied from IC2, it's been changed enough there's no solid proof it ever happened, and to add onto that, Simply Jetpacks does Jetpacks a lot better than IC2 does, as stated by several people, including, most notably, Etho. As such, there is really no good reason that the project would have to be shut down.
I will be honest, I didn't know of it until the recent drama, but I will be using it from now on. Keep up the great work.
Also, does anyone have a banner for the mod I can use in my signature?