if onyl the stick tools weren't so ugly. no offense but they look really really low grade. I understand wood tools are the worse of them all, but a decent appearence would be nice.
Current ingame tools really don't make sense, what can you do with your bare hands? Stick tools are just sticks tied up with God only knows, they're barely able to break rock, they're going to look like crap.
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Lead designer and artist of Team Metallurgy (Metallurgy, Aquaculture, and Atum)
Just installed this, been playing for an hour or so. I love mining, and mods like Industrial Craft 2 make it more interesting by giving you more things to find and more tools to do so. So, this appeals to me.
I did my usual diagonal staircase down to layer 14, and started branch mining. Got copper on the way down, made a copper pickaxe, but it broke before I found anything else, so I had to go back to wood. Not a huge deal. Probably went through five wood picks total before I got down where I wanted to be. Ignored the iron ore on the way down, because of your bug note on the first post.
I was able to make a set of bronze tools, then within a minute, I found a small vein of orichalcum. A few minutes later I had an orichalcum pick and started branch mining. The first vein I hit, on the first branch, was eight adamantine ore. Maybe I'm just lucky?
So, I'm kind of at the pinnacle of what I can do in this alpha release.
Complaints:
-Smoothstone breaking into 4 rocks, then recombining them into cobblestone seems gimmicky. If the purpose is to make you go back to your home base to unload/combine your loot before going back out, this is a failure. You can combine the rocks on the spot in your mine using the 2x2 crafting grid in your inv screen. If that was the point, it should take 5 or more rocks to make cobblestone, force you to go back up or plunk down a crafting table first. I'd be all for a recipe where 6 rocks make a cobblestone block, and 9 rocks make a smoothstone block (for when you need to make a button, etc).
-Never had a use for steel tools, or copper, or mithril. I kind of flew through the various ores. Some, I picked up, but had no use for. Others, like iron, I couldn't mine when I ran into them, and had to skip them.
Suggestions:
-Consider making the highest rank of tools (whatever that turns out to be) unbreakable, but requires lower ores to feed it. This would kind of be like the mining drill from IC2. So, if you feed it a copper bar, you add two more uses, an orichalcum bar gives 128, or something like that. Or, alternately, allow tools to be repaired by lower rank bars/ores. Maybe with a special anvil tool, like the one in Better Than Wolves. Either way, it would give you a use for all of the low rank ores that clog up your backpack after a few minutes.
-Just an thought: make the tools upgradeable. Instead of making an adamantine pick from three bars and two sticks, make it from two adamantine bars and a mithril pick. Maybe even make this the only recipe, so high level tools cannot be built from scratch.
-Not sure how you'd implement this, but change the "hardness" of smoothstone every few layers. So layers 1-10 would have all the adamantine ore, and would require a mithril pick in order to break the stone in it. Layers 11-20 would have all the mithril ore (and lower), and would require a steel pick in order to break the stone. And so on. This would force players to mine around in a given layer to find enough ore to make the tool to move down to the next layer. No more diagonal staircase all the way down to near bedrock with a wood pick.
Overall opinion: Very fun, lots of promise. Can't wait to see how this turns out!
Just installed this, been playing for an hour or so. I love mining, and mods like Industrial Craft 2 make it more interesting by giving you more things to find and more tools to do so. So, this appeals to me.
I did my usual diagonal staircase down to layer 14, and started branch mining. Got copper on the way down, made a copper pickaxe, but it broke before I found anything else, so I had to go back to wood. Not a huge deal. Probably went through five wood picks total before I got down where I wanted to be. Ignored the iron ore on the way down, because of your bug note on the first post.
I was able to make a set of bronze tools, then within a minute, I found a small vein of orichalcum. A few minutes later I had an orichalcum pick and started branch mining. The first vein I hit, on the first branch, was eight adamantine ore. Maybe I'm just lucky?
So, I'm kind of at the pinnacle of what I can do in this alpha release.
Complaints:
-Smoothstone breaking into 4 rocks, then recombining them into cobblestone seems gimmicky. If the purpose is to make you go back to your home base to unload/combine your loot before going back out, this is a failure. You can combine the rocks on the spot in your mine using the 2x2 crafting grid in your inv screen. If that was the point, it should take 5 or more rocks to make cobblestone, force you to go back up or plunk down a crafting table first. I'd be all for a recipe where 6 rocks make a cobblestone block, and 9 rocks make a smoothstone block (for when you need to make a button, etc).
-Never had a use for steel tools, or copper, or mithril. I kind of flew through the various ores. Some, I picked up, but had no use for. Others, like iron, I couldn't mine when I ran into them, and had to skip them.
Suggestions:
-Consider making the highest rank of tools (whatever that turns out to be) unbreakable, but requires lower ores to feed it. This would kind of be like the mining drill from IC2. So, if you feed it a copper bar, you add two more uses, an orichalcum bar gives 128, or something like that. Or, alternately, allow tools to be repaired by lower rank bars/ores. Maybe with a special anvil tool, like the one in Better Than Wolves. Either way, it would give you a use for all of the low rank ores that clog up your backpack after a few minutes.
-Just an thought: make the tools upgradeable. Instead of making an adamantine pick from three bars and two sticks, make it from two adamantine bars and a mithril pick. Maybe even make this the only recipe, so high level tools cannot be built from scratch.
-Not sure how you'd implement this, but change the "hardness" of smoothstone every few layers. So layers 1-10 would have all the adamantine ore, and would require a mithril pick in order to break the stone in it. Layers 11-20 would have all the mithril ore (and lower), and would require a steel pick in order to break the stone. And so on. This would force players to mine around in a given layer to find enough ore to make the tool to move down to the next layer. No more diagonal staircase all the way down to near bedrock with a wood pick.
Overall opinion: Very fun, lots of promise. Can't wait to see how this turns out!
Yea the rock thing is probably getting removed, I was trying to remove all of the "break a block, get a block" in the game but its looking like a lot of people aren't liking that too much.
The speed of obtaining ores does need fixing drastically, I think I have the spawn rates way too high for a few of them, and the various depths are a tad close (I believe it just drops by 16 per type). There had been discussion of making them spawn anywhere in the world height-wise but varying solely by rarity which I actually really liked the concept of (no more digging to the bottom of the world on your ore adventure and guaranteeing you'll find anything at the bottom). I was in the attempts of making the hardness for each ore to where you had to have the previous to mine it, but as you can see with Iron it failed miserably somewhere (tweaking Iron's hardness made it invulnerable for some reason)
The idea of using previous tier tools to make the next is an interesting idea, personally I like it, but at the same time it feels a tad unrealistic (a Copper core pickaxe surrounded by bronze, surrounded by iron, surrounded by steel?) just seems odd. But I think if the veins anywhere bit doesn't help I could go down that path.
Otherwise thank you greatly for the full and proper feedback, really helps!
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Current ingame tools really don't make sense, what can you do with your bare hands? Stick tools are just sticks tied up with God only knows, they're barely able to break rock, they're going to look like crap.
fair enough but I don't care for realism. I'd rather have them look normal minecraft style. they arent face that way either, btu they have a much more disticnt appearence. the sticks version just seems a little.... (no offense) pathetic. basic is fine but yeah they look very undermined (PUNS FOR EVERYBODY!)
Great mod man, just a little suggestion tough, wouldn't it be better to also include coal to the crafting process of steel?
Also, I might have found a way to implement diamond into the production of tools, make them craftable into dust, allowing you to 'coat' your tools.
Also, titanium isn't really used for creating tools, you might want to give it another use (like uprading the wooden handle).
Its a common myth that Coal itself is used in the production of Steel, various games have used direct Coal in the creation. The only use Coal (or Coke) really has in Steelmaking is for superheating it to remove impurities. I went for an Iron/Manganese mix for my Steel because its a nice alloy used in a variety of things. If you mean inserting Coal into the crafting workbench with the two bars to make the Steel Bar, that wouldn't be a half bad idea, just to make up for the coal that would be used if the forge supported it.
Titanium: "Some upmarket categories of tools made to be lightweight and corrosion-resistant, such as shovels and flashlights, are made of titanium or titanium alloys as well." - Wikipedia
And sadly the wooden tools look the way they do, literally the sprite itself is a cross of the handle half the time mixed with other bits. Its not my quality as a spriter that makes them such, its actually just how they should look in my eyes. I don't see people really making much else with it (The Wooden Axe is a piece of bark tied to a stick for heaven's sake). They're going to look crappy, pitiful, and poor (there's really not much better way to make them, basic Minecraft just uses a raw tool design recolored, which I ended up using for Copper slightly tweaked)
Yes, that's what I meant with the steel production, just to make it a little more resource intensive.
Coming back to the titanium/wood part. I was talking about being able to not only upgrade the working end of the tool but also upgrading the tool handle to perhaps improve durability.
Actually I don't remember if I had posted it in the main post or not, but there had been a discussion of all the "modern" metal tools using Steel Rods instead of Wooden, just to make them more difficult to obtain and more durable.
But yea implementing coal into the process is pretty simple actually, I'll probably do that. For Steel and Bronze.
Actually, my intention of adding them would have actually been more customizability instead of making the tools harder to maintain.
Little example.
Titanium rod: 5% increase in mining speed, 5% more durability (compared to wood)
Steel rod: 5% decrease in mining speed, 20% more durability (compared to wood)
Which would combine with the stats of the default (wooden rod) tool.
The issue is the sheer volume of ItemIDs that requires truthfully, the sprites for htem wouldn't be so bad, but consuming so many ItemIDs is a pain, and it would require extra "materials" to be coded in for each one (Adamantine-Wood, Adamantine-Steel, Adamantine-Titanium, etc.) which could prove to be way more work than necessary.
I ran into this issue with implementing Bows with different arrow types, each bow already takes 4 sprites (x how many materials there would be) and then if I implemented various arrows the drawback animation would multiply that amount by how many different types of arrows there are. Then I remembered there's no way to tell the game which arrows you want to use and don't want to use, so with all those issues I scrapped it.
I'll probably stay with solely Aluminum/Stainless Steel/Titanium Tools using base Steel Rods for now, just to make base Steel more useful and because its a simple thing to make the tools more complex.
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Alright then, glad to give you some inspiration tough.
But you still havn't replied to the whole diamond coated (steel exclusive) tool idea of mine.
Would that be possible?
Using diamond dust for something would be interesting, the issue I have is that diamonds are going to conflict with the gemstone concept I had. However I am unable to edit/remove diamonds in the current game environment without drastically screwing up compatibility, so I have to live with them as is.
Diamond Dust being used as some sort of enhancer for a metal would be a nice addition, as for Steel, Steel already has Stainless Steel with Chromium if you use the Modern Metals pack, I'd probably prefer to mix it with something else (not sure what yet, I'm trying to come up with some other alloys still, Quicksilver is a possibility [Faster than Mithril, same durability, made by mixing Mithril and Silver]). I may use diamond dust with Titanium Tools to make Diamond Tipped Titanium Tools or something. Not sure yet.
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Sweet, but yeah that was about every suggestion I had.
I just have one question remaining tough.
Would it be possible to ajust the swing speed of a weapon/tool without it breaking blocks faster?
Swing Speed I have no idea truthfully how to modify, and Swing Speed without modifying block break speed I don't think are tweakable without modifying the other.
Great, just came up with another use for steel, reinforced concrete.
Its properties would be the opposite of obsidian, only being able to be destroyed by c4 or TNT (creepers excluded for obvious reasons)
Concrete and Reinforced Concrete I had considered actually as eventual adds, along with marble and such, for now I'm focusing on the metals (mostly), but Concrete would really be nice and help add flavor to IndustrialCraft or such.
Actually thinking about alloys and such, in IC if you macerate a metal ore you get 2 <Metal> Dust, its used to multiply ore outputs at later levels. This is how they go about creating Bronze (Bronze Dust is made using 3 Copper Dust and 1 Tin Dust, then Bronze Dust is smelted into Bronze Bars). I'm contemplating making it so that an Ore in a Workbench would return 1x <Metal> Dust, which can then be smelted, or for alloys mixed at a workbench. Then not only would I have the preset requirements to be IC compatible (since all you'd have to do is add Macerator recipes, since the dust/ore is already there), but it'd also make creating the alloys more realistic, and still require smelting.
I am making a texturepack with one of my friends. And you can be 100% Sure that we are gonna have mod support for this :biggrin.gif::D
<3 Can't wait to see it, luckily my metals are just basic recolorings for the blocks (save for the tools), so I look forward to whatever you churn out =P
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Anyways. Were you going to add the other texture i made for the nether stone thing? :smile.gif:
Yep I might tweak it a tad bit, but when I get around to implementing Nether Metals I'll definitely be adding it, I really like the Cobbled (Sharp?) Firestone. I think it'd be a sexy deco block. I think I may reverse it and use your version of Cobbled as the base Firestone, and then the Smooth version as the Sharp version. I'd have to replace the ores on it, but I really like the texture.
So I need some ideas for new alloys.. Quicksilver is one (made from Silver and Mithril, it reinforces the mithril to make a more potent and faster tool)
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Lead designer and artist of Team Metallurgy (Metallurgy, Aquaculture, and Atum)
quicksilver= silver+ mithril
hyper diamond= diamond+ coal, twice as strong as diamond, tools require diamonds instead of sticks for the handle
fire-stone = Vulcanite + gemstone from nether( when/if they are added) can be combined to make blocks, strong as diamond, tools appear to be made of fire, blocks glow, armour gives fire/lava resistance
ultra gem(please don't name it this)= mix of gemstones, requires 9 different ones, durability of hyper-diamond, faster than gold, require gemstone handles
and obsidian tools would be nice, i've been looking round a few mods and haven't found any
Firestone is already being added as a new nether material as a smoothstone equivalent, its where you'll find the various new Nether ores.
Hyper/Ultra Gems/Diamonds, I still haven't decided wtf I'm going to do about Diamond tools yet truthfully :wink.gif: nonetheless super diamonds.
Obsidian ingame is sadly too available for tool making, personally I contemplated re-adding it as a rare material you can find, but found it requires too much modification (and takes 2-3 more base file edits that make compatibility that much harder).
Mostly just looking at new alloy possibilities, things that dusts from two metals can mix to make (Tin + Copper = Bronze, Iron + Manganese = Steel, Steel + Chromium = Stainless Steel, Mithril + Silver = Quicksilver, etc.)
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Current ingame tools really don't make sense, what can you do with your bare hands? Stick tools are just sticks tied up with God only knows, they're barely able to break rock, they're going to look like crap.
Lead designer and artist of Team Metallurgy (Metallurgy, Aquaculture, and Atum)
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I did my usual diagonal staircase down to layer 14, and started branch mining. Got copper on the way down, made a copper pickaxe, but it broke before I found anything else, so I had to go back to wood. Not a huge deal. Probably went through five wood picks total before I got down where I wanted to be. Ignored the iron ore on the way down, because of your bug note on the first post.
I was able to make a set of bronze tools, then within a minute, I found a small vein of orichalcum. A few minutes later I had an orichalcum pick and started branch mining. The first vein I hit, on the first branch, was eight adamantine ore. Maybe I'm just lucky?
So, I'm kind of at the pinnacle of what I can do in this alpha release.
Complaints:
-Smoothstone breaking into 4 rocks, then recombining them into cobblestone seems gimmicky. If the purpose is to make you go back to your home base to unload/combine your loot before going back out, this is a failure. You can combine the rocks on the spot in your mine using the 2x2 crafting grid in your inv screen. If that was the point, it should take 5 or more rocks to make cobblestone, force you to go back up or plunk down a crafting table first. I'd be all for a recipe where 6 rocks make a cobblestone block, and 9 rocks make a smoothstone block (for when you need to make a button, etc).
-Never had a use for steel tools, or copper, or mithril. I kind of flew through the various ores. Some, I picked up, but had no use for. Others, like iron, I couldn't mine when I ran into them, and had to skip them.
Suggestions:
-Consider making the highest rank of tools (whatever that turns out to be) unbreakable, but requires lower ores to feed it. This would kind of be like the mining drill from IC2. So, if you feed it a copper bar, you add two more uses, an orichalcum bar gives 128, or something like that. Or, alternately, allow tools to be repaired by lower rank bars/ores. Maybe with a special anvil tool, like the one in Better Than Wolves. Either way, it would give you a use for all of the low rank ores that clog up your backpack after a few minutes.
-Just an thought: make the tools upgradeable. Instead of making an adamantine pick from three bars and two sticks, make it from two adamantine bars and a mithril pick. Maybe even make this the only recipe, so high level tools cannot be built from scratch.
-Not sure how you'd implement this, but change the "hardness" of smoothstone every few layers. So layers 1-10 would have all the adamantine ore, and would require a mithril pick in order to break the stone in it. Layers 11-20 would have all the mithril ore (and lower), and would require a steel pick in order to break the stone. And so on. This would force players to mine around in a given layer to find enough ore to make the tool to move down to the next layer. No more diagonal staircase all the way down to near bedrock with a wood pick.
Overall opinion: Very fun, lots of promise. Can't wait to see how this turns out!
Yea the rock thing is probably getting removed, I was trying to remove all of the "break a block, get a block" in the game but its looking like a lot of people aren't liking that too much.
The speed of obtaining ores does need fixing drastically, I think I have the spawn rates way too high for a few of them, and the various depths are a tad close (I believe it just drops by 16 per type). There had been discussion of making them spawn anywhere in the world height-wise but varying solely by rarity which I actually really liked the concept of (no more digging to the bottom of the world on your ore adventure and guaranteeing you'll find anything at the bottom). I was in the attempts of making the hardness for each ore to where you had to have the previous to mine it, but as you can see with Iron it failed miserably somewhere (tweaking Iron's hardness made it invulnerable for some reason)
The idea of using previous tier tools to make the next is an interesting idea, personally I like it, but at the same time it feels a tad unrealistic (a Copper core pickaxe surrounded by bronze, surrounded by iron, surrounded by steel?) just seems odd. But I think if the veins anywhere bit doesn't help I could go down that path.
Otherwise thank you greatly for the full and proper feedback, really helps!
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fair enough but I don't care for realism. I'd rather have them look normal minecraft style. they arent face that way either, btu they have a much more disticnt appearence. the sticks version just seems a little.... (no offense) pathetic. basic is fine but yeah they look very undermined (PUNS FOR EVERYBODY!)
Its a common myth that Coal itself is used in the production of Steel, various games have used direct Coal in the creation. The only use Coal (or Coke) really has in Steelmaking is for superheating it to remove impurities. I went for an Iron/Manganese mix for my Steel because its a nice alloy used in a variety of things. If you mean inserting Coal into the crafting workbench with the two bars to make the Steel Bar, that wouldn't be a half bad idea, just to make up for the coal that would be used if the forge supported it.
Titanium: "Some upmarket categories of tools made to be lightweight and corrosion-resistant, such as shovels and flashlights, are made of titanium or titanium alloys as well." - Wikipedia
And sadly the wooden tools look the way they do, literally the sprite itself is a cross of the handle half the time mixed with other bits. Its not my quality as a spriter that makes them such, its actually just how they should look in my eyes. I don't see people really making much else with it (The Wooden Axe is a piece of bark tied to a stick for heaven's sake). They're going to look crappy, pitiful, and poor (there's really not much better way to make them, basic Minecraft just uses a raw tool design recolored, which I ended up using for Copper slightly tweaked)
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Actually I don't remember if I had posted it in the main post or not, but there had been a discussion of all the "modern" metal tools using Steel Rods instead of Wooden, just to make them more difficult to obtain and more durable.
But yea implementing coal into the process is pretty simple actually, I'll probably do that. For Steel and Bronze.
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The issue is the sheer volume of ItemIDs that requires truthfully, the sprites for htem wouldn't be so bad, but consuming so many ItemIDs is a pain, and it would require extra "materials" to be coded in for each one (Adamantine-Wood, Adamantine-Steel, Adamantine-Titanium, etc.) which could prove to be way more work than necessary.
I ran into this issue with implementing Bows with different arrow types, each bow already takes 4 sprites (x how many materials there would be) and then if I implemented various arrows the drawback animation would multiply that amount by how many different types of arrows there are. Then I remembered there's no way to tell the game which arrows you want to use and don't want to use, so with all those issues I scrapped it.
I'll probably stay with solely Aluminum/Stainless Steel/Titanium Tools using base Steel Rods for now, just to make base Steel more useful and because its a simple thing to make the tools more complex.
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Using diamond dust for something would be interesting, the issue I have is that diamonds are going to conflict with the gemstone concept I had. However I am unable to edit/remove diamonds in the current game environment without drastically screwing up compatibility, so I have to live with them as is.
Diamond Dust being used as some sort of enhancer for a metal would be a nice addition, as for Steel, Steel already has Stainless Steel with Chromium if you use the Modern Metals pack, I'd probably prefer to mix it with something else (not sure what yet, I'm trying to come up with some other alloys still, Quicksilver is a possibility [Faster than Mithril, same durability, made by mixing Mithril and Silver]). I may use diamond dust with Titanium Tools to make Diamond Tipped Titanium Tools or something. Not sure yet.
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Yes I am =P
Its also used in various fantasy games/stories as a type of metal on its own. I'm just implementing it as a Mithril alloy.
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Swing Speed I have no idea truthfully how to modify, and Swing Speed without modifying block break speed I don't think are tweakable without modifying the other.
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Concrete and Reinforced Concrete I had considered actually as eventual adds, along with marble and such, for now I'm focusing on the metals (mostly), but Concrete would really be nice and help add flavor to IndustrialCraft or such.
Actually thinking about alloys and such, in IC if you macerate a metal ore you get 2 <Metal> Dust, its used to multiply ore outputs at later levels. This is how they go about creating Bronze (Bronze Dust is made using 3 Copper Dust and 1 Tin Dust, then Bronze Dust is smelted into Bronze Bars). I'm contemplating making it so that an Ore in a Workbench would return 1x <Metal> Dust, which can then be smelted, or for alloys mixed at a workbench. Then not only would I have the preset requirements to be IC compatible (since all you'd have to do is add Macerator recipes, since the dust/ore is already there), but it'd also make creating the alloys more realistic, and still require smelting.
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<3 Can't wait to see it, luckily my metals are just basic recolorings for the blocks (save for the tools), so I look forward to whatever you churn out =P
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I wish you the best of luck regardless sir, I don't personally use texture packs (I have made one) but I enjoy them regardless.
I should note all I'm waiting on now is MCP to get an update and MCForge then I can begin work (and last I checked, MCForge is just waiting on MCP)
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Yep I might tweak it a tad bit, but when I get around to implementing Nether Metals I'll definitely be adding it, I really like the Cobbled (Sharp?) Firestone. I think it'd be a sexy deco block. I think I may reverse it and use your version of Cobbled as the base Firestone, and then the Smooth version as the Sharp version. I'd have to replace the ores on it, but I really like the texture.
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G'night and thanks for the contribution!
Just still waiting on those mod tool updates then it'll be some simple code pasting and tweaking and bam.
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Azurite (new sprites), Cinnabar, and Malachite.
Gotta find out some unique uses for them still, don't know if they'll go into the 1.0 version or not.
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Firestone is already being added as a new nether material as a smoothstone equivalent, its where you'll find the various new Nether ores.
Hyper/Ultra Gems/Diamonds, I still haven't decided wtf I'm going to do about Diamond tools yet truthfully :wink.gif: nonetheless super diamonds.
Obsidian ingame is sadly too available for tool making, personally I contemplated re-adding it as a rare material you can find, but found it requires too much modification (and takes 2-3 more base file edits that make compatibility that much harder).
Mostly just looking at new alloy possibilities, things that dusts from two metals can mix to make (Tin + Copper = Bronze, Iron + Manganese = Steel, Steel + Chromium = Stainless Steel, Mithril + Silver = Quicksilver, etc.)
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