Hat off to you FC and good luck with your development.
I don't want to reopen the Forge debate, but I do appreciate you taking the time to express your concerns with regards to it in such a thoughtful manner.
I will make a couple of brief points about it as a result.
First, keep in mind that my problem isn't with people copying ideas in general. That obviously happens a lot in the mod scene. My issue was with collaborating with someone that was actively doing that both with me and with our other partners. You mentioned the BC pipe thing, which was actually the straw that broke the camel's back and caused me to leave. It wasn't even anything of mine that had been copied that did it.
Secondly, me and Eloraam used to be on very good terms and in pretty much daily communication through IRC in the first days of the Forge, so it really isn't a matter of getting to know someone in this case. It was actually getting to know someone better that made me realize I didn't want to be in that situation anymore. SpaceToad and I (who was the original founder of the Forge) on the other hand remained on very friendly terms throughout, including after I left the Forge, and right up to the time when he left the modding scene. This is obviously represented in how we collaborated together to make BTB a reality (one that I've decided not to continue maintaining in his absence however).
And lastly, one point we seem to differ on is that easier or more powerful does not equal better in my book. To me, pipe leakage in BC was an additional design consideration in constructing systems using it, and that's the kind of thing I enjoy and appreciate as a player. One of the reasons I liked BC so much was due to the design constraints built into it, while so many other modders just seem to aim for building more and more powerful functionality slowly heading towards the point where you push a "win game" button and are done with it.
That may represent excellent programming skill, but to me, it isn't game design. Games are ultimately defined by their rules, and without limitations in place, they cease to be fun. Really, for a mod to continue to be compelling the author needs to possess both programming and design skill sets, and SpaceToad was one of the extremely rare individuals that seemed to have both.
Anyways, to me, the whole Forge scene has largely devolved into various modders competing to make more and more powerful (not better in gameplay terms) functionality so that their blocks are the ones that wind up getting used by players when the whole mess is installed together (since players will naturally tend to use the most powerful tools at their disposal). As such, I do not believe that it encourages good design, but rather quite the opposite, and I am quite happy to be off in my bubble and not to be subject to that.
Who knows what the futures hold for any person or community, you could reconcile with Eloraam and return to the forge, stay on your own and maintain a very small diehard community,
I think many people severely underestimate the size of BTW's fanbase. Much to my surprise it did not drop at all after I left the Forge, and has continued to steadily increase.
The mod currently has tens to hundreds of thousands of active users. I think BTW provides a specific kind of experience that can't be found elsewhere, and that largely comes down to the amount of time I spend on design and on making sure that the mod's feature set more or less fits seamlessly with vanilla Minecraft in a way that doesn't keep reminding you that you're playing a mod. There just aren't really any other mods out there that do that.
So yeah man, while I know my detractors like to go on about the miniscule fan-base they say the mod has, and how me leaving Forge basically killed the mod, that's actually just pure fallacy. Both the mod and the community around it are stronger than they've ever been, and I continually get messages from folks telling me about how they tried the Forge mods for awhile only to get bored and return to BTW.
If I may link to what FlowerChild said above, as well, one thing I have noticed is a pair of parallel assumptions from players in general, but particularly the Forge crowd. As FlowerChild said, more powerful in a mod does not always equal better. He outlined his reasons, and I agree with him. The assumption I tend to hear a lot that is not always spoken alongside that, though, is that a bigger fan base, or popularity, equals better.
Now, don't call me a hipster, but I've never understood this association between popularity and "Goodness", regardless if it was applied to video games, people, presidential candidates, etc. Certainly a certain amount of common sense says that if a lot of people like a thing, there has to be something to it, but everyone ought to then investigate that thing and make a decision for themselves about what they think about it. Popularity does not always equal goodness, though, as popular music tells us. Who here wants to agree to the statement that just because he's popular, that Justin Beiber is the greatest musician of all time, hmm?
There are two things this question comes down to, for me. Firstly, while FlowerChild won't release exact numbers for us, BTW potentially has more active users than the number of people that live in my city. Not town, but CITY. To be a guy, making an add-on for a game - not even a full game but an add-on - in his spare time for fun to potentially have the active user base of a city is incredible to me, and I think it's pretty darned good regardless of what any other mod in the community is doing. That sort of thing I judge independently which brings me to my second point.
Competition. I've not figured out the rules or whys of competition in the modding community here. Why must there be competition in the first place? I can understand having pride in our mod and mod author of choice (I'm certainly guilty of that) but that doesn't mean others can't enjoy what they enjoy too. Why is BTW often judged against the Forge and its mods as a whole? For as much as BTW made itself a singular entity by leaving the Forge, the Forge mods are not just competing with BTW - they are certainly competing amongst themselves as well. Why else would there be so much overlapping functionality in them if they're meant to work together?
Eitherway, just a few points that had been brewing in my mind that TheSimpleMajority and FlowerChild's post brought to mind.
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She who Bring the Doom and Cuteness. I livestream! twitch.tv/morvelaira
This kitten is traumatized by stupid. Please stop abusing the kitten.
the windmills, -> that they can placed like this:
------------------
Windmill
Axle/ Gear Box
------------------
In this way creative people can make "flying/floating" buildings/objects. No purpose needed, just for the beauty.
That would make everything much more realistic... Can you please do that for me (and maybe other creative thinkers)??
+ You can make it so (if possible) that the windmill doesn't give power through this way
Already thanks for reading this! Plus alot of 's!
Translation: FlowerChild, please spend more time and work adding a completely useless feature to the windmills to make them look pretty while serving no useful purpose to the mechanical system.
This translation is provided so FC can ignore the quoted suggestion. To be honest, I believe he ignores any suggestions in this thread already.
I absolutely LOVE the content in Better Than Wolves and I really want to get it for myself. My only problem is that I completely suck at modding and really have no idea how to do it. I know you said you wouldn't allow it to be in a mod-pack, and I respect that decision. However, would you be willing to make an installer for Better Than Wolves for those of us who can't mod? I would be grateful to you forever if you made an installer. If you can't, then how do I clear my mctmp directory? I accidentally installed Modloader 1.3.1 instead of the 1.2.5 one and I don't know how to get a new, clean directory. I have a mac with the latest OS, could you help?
Thanks so much,
ShadowRanger17
EDIT: Actually, if FC doesn't want to make an installer can anyone help me if FC doesn't want to? Thanks.
This translation is provided so FC can ignore the quoted suggestion. To be honest, I believe he ignores any suggestions in this thread already.
An occasional gem still does appear here. Most ideas are utter rubbish (not just for the mod...in general), but I make sure to comment on it when a genuinely good idea appears, as I really do appreciate those moments of brilliance.
I think mod technical interoperability is overrated - most of mod incompatibility isn't technical, but from a gameplay point of view. At least, for major mods.
A modder can guarantee his/her mod works fine with vanilla features, and that's it. But when you put more mods in the same bag, the result can be redundant (ex: IC/BC/RP trio), inconsistent (ex: Thaumcraft + technological mods) or plain overpowered (ex: Equivalent Exchange with ANY automation mod).
Forge's biggest strenght, IMHO, is not by allowing you to cram up 9001 mods in the same installation, but for modders who don't wish to reinvent the wheel; this is not an issue for BTW, because the mod is far older than Forge itself.
So, all this "BTW is not compatible with Forge" whining we see here is actually moot. Just make separated installations for the major mods you like to play, and we're done.
An occasional gem still does appear here. Most ideas are utter rubbish (not just for the mod...in general), but I make sure to comment on it when a genuinely good idea appears, as I really do appreciate those moments of brilliance.
One more idea for the pile of rubbish, shall I? BTW needs booze
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Magnum homo potest esse solummodo rem nunquam prae uiderit creat.
Eitherway, just a few points that had been brewing in my mind that TheSimpleMajority and FlowerChild's post brought to mind.
I think your points are entirely valid Morv, and reflect a lot of my own thoughts with regards to popularity.
Maybe I'm an idealist in this regard, but to me, focusing on popularity when creating something is often like putting the carriage in front of the unichicken. I do believe that if you make something good, that you really enjoy for itself, that popularity will follow as like minded people will appreciate it and recognize it as a labor of love rather than as a "product". I know most of the media I myself consume is of that nature. I have no love for big-budget Hollywood films, pop music, the latest best-selling novel, or what have you. I *do* have a huge appreciation however for original creations that a lot of thought was obviously put into.
I spent most of my career compromising my design vision due to other people's concepts of what would be popular (as opposed to what is actually good and fun), and it was definitely a big contributing factor in me deciding to leave the industry. So, I'm certainly not willing to do that now that I have pretty much complete design freedom in working on this mod as a hobby.
As always, I make the mod because I enjoy doing so (and sweating compatibility issues definitely isn't "fun" for me), because making games is what I've always done since I was a very young child and I feel I personally need this kind of creative outlet to be happy, and because it represents the kind of features I personally want to enjoy as a player.
As such, it's a labor of love, and not something I'm doing to become famous. Sure, popularity is nice, and it makes me feel good that so many people enjoy the mod (I personally tend to think of it in terms of football stadiums ), but I really don't think it should ever be a determining factor for me in the decisions I make with regards to the mod, as ultimately, that would just wind up detracting from its quality and integrity.
This mod largely began as a "statement" on my part with regards to cost/benefit in terms of game features, when I thought that wolves failed miserably in that regard when they were first released (hence the mod name). It's obviously mutated into something much larger since, but those kind of "bang for the buck" concepts are still a big part of who I am and my overall design philosophy.
Anyways, just to say that for every hour I spend working on a feature because it will be popular (like aesthetic blocks), there's an hour I'm not spending working on a feature because it will be good (like the Hopper). To me, that's the real tragedy of poorly conceived features that haven't undergone proper cost/benefit analysis. It's not that you wind up with a sub-par feature, it's that you wind up never getting the better one that could have been done in its place.
Hey FC, I had an idea for enchantments. It's pretty cool, but idk how hard it would be to code.
You know how you can see other players that have enchanted armour and weapons? I was wondering if you could make it to where you can see what enchantment it is. For Instance, to represent Feather-Falling, there could be small feathers/wings on the sides of the boots. And, possibly different size/shape feathers/wings for a better enchantment? It would just be great for Scouting in PvP, since we (The People I do PvP with) often scout people to see what armour they have, and usually enchantments dictate evasive or drastic manuevers, even when completely unneccesarry. If this has been discussed before, sorry, didn't know, and I'd rather play with the mod than read through thousands of pages.
Hey FC, I had an idea for enchantments. It's pretty cool, but idk how hard it would be to code.
You know how you can see other players that have enchanted armour and weapons? I was wondering if you could make it to where you can see what enchantment it is. For Instance, to represent Feather-Falling, there could be small feathers/wings on the sides of the boots. And, possibly different size/shape feathers/wings for a better enchantment? It would just be great for Scouting in PvP, since we (The People I do PvP with) often scout people to see what armour they have, and usually enchantments dictate evasive or drastic manuevers, even when completely unneccesarry. If this has been discussed before, sorry, didn't know, and I'd rather play with the mod than read through thousands of pages.
Well, it's an interesting idea to be sure, and I can see where you're coming from.
I'll think it over some. Immediately, I would be concerned about the potential loss of some of the sense of danger when confronting other players, as unknowns create uncertainty, which can lead to worry.
I'm primarily an anarchy player when I play SMP, and one of the things I love about it is the constant sense of living in fear of other players (I actually find playing anarchy MC has a somewhat similar sensation to playing DayZ). As such, I want to be careful about anything that might potentially reduce that.
Anyways, like I said, I'll think it over and weigh the pros and cons.
this is the best mod ever! it just needs to be updated
awesome!
FC was going to update it, but you pestered and now he's going to push it back. You should know that FC HATES UPDATE PESTERING (and I know because I made the same mistake back in the days of MC beta). Stop. Pestering. FC. NOW!!!!!!
Well, it's an interesting idea to be sure, and I can see where you're coming from.
I'll think it over some. Immediately, I would be concerned about the potential loss of some of the sense of danger when confronting other players, as unknowns create uncertainty, which can lead to worry.
I'm primarily an anarchy player when I play SMP, and one of the things I love about it is the constant sense of living in fear of other players (I actually find playing anarchy MC has a somewhat similar sensation to playing DayZ). As such, I want to be careful about anything that might potentially reduce that.
Anyways, like I said, I'll think it over and weigh the pros and cons.
I can see where you're coming from as well. Honestly though, I think enchantments are too passive, and are 0% aethstetic, unless you count the "glow" effect of enchantments. Adding hints as to what enchantments something has would make it more aethsteticly appealing. Thanks for considering my idea, anyway.
By the way, what was the biggest reason you didn't want to release BTW as SMP, due to having to work more at updating, or what? It just seems to me that your mod is perfect for PvP, both in terms of resources and mechanics. It also has the ability to intimidate people through use of aethstetics, which I use now. I often find myself re-doing something after looking at it and saying "That looks like crap.". Better than Wolves is one of, if not the, the best mods out there. I never myself played the Aether. I was too busy playing Better Than Wolves.
And I know what you mean. I have a piston code door, and just behind it a mosaic of hidden saws. Type in the code wrong, and the door opens, but beyond the door... Is a whole bunch of saws, and another, closed door. Of course, this has no use as of current, since nobody is there to type the code in wrong.
By the way, what was the biggest reason you didn't want to release BTW as SMP, due to having to work more at updating, or what?
I was waiting for the update that Mojang just released. Notch said he was going to make this change many many months ago, and previously the code structure with regards to the separation of single and multiplayer was a throwback to the 90's in terms of it not all being within the same code base.
So yes, it was due to the amount of work it required previously, especially considering that I knew the whole thing was going to change down the road and that much of that effort would be wasted.
And yeah, I realize many of the features in the mod are well suited to SMP, especially anarchy or PvP, as I designed them that way
It's always been my intention for BTW to eventually become an SMP mod, so I've been designing with that in mind from the start. Also, unlike most other major mods that seem to focus exclusively on creative SMP play (as in no griefing etc.), I fully intend to tailor this mod specifically for a PvP environment.
It's my preferred style of play, and one I feel has received far too little attention from modders (or even from Mojang).
At present, I'm working on just updating to 1.3 and getting the mod back to the state it was before then with regards to single-player. Right after I put out that first 1.3 release, I'll be moving on to tackling SMP.
Anyways, I hope you'll hang around this thread and potentially join the BTW forums (registration is locked at the moment though, until the 1.3 update is released). As a PvP kinda guy, I'm sure I'd appreciate your input in the coming weeks and months.
After quoting his post, you STILL manage to spell FORTH wrong >_>
lol don't judge me, I was half asleep (spent most of the evening in the ER with my mom. I was reading through the BTW thread while I was waiting. She is fine and had a minor infection. The hospital discharged her after 7 hours. I posted when I got home and of course FORTH is a word as is FOURTH. I do apologize for any spelling errors.
I don't want to reopen the Forge debate, but I do appreciate you taking the time to express your concerns with regards to it in such a thoughtful manner.
...
So yeah man, while I know my detractors like to go on about the miniscule fan-base they say the mod has, and how me leaving Forge basically killed the mod, that's actually just pure fallacy. Both the mod and the community around it are stronger than they've ever been, and I continually get messages from folks telling me about how they tried the Forge mods for awhile only to get bored and return to BTW.
First I do want to thank you for the response and like I said I enjoy the mod greatly. I play it equally as I do forge based mods, and it does greatly sadden me that BTBC is no longer around. I also wasn't trying to attack your fan base in anyway shape or form, and again I do apologize if I came across that way. Reality is there is no fool proof method of tracking the amount of support that your mod carries. You can't use a download as a measure as it can be downloaded repeatedly from a single source... example I downloaded 3.91 at least 4 times this month (two hard drive failures, one accidental zip deletion, and finally when I migrated over to MultiMC. The only true means of measure is to use Google Analytics to measure the amount of traffic your site receives monthly directly, organically, and by referral. I did check and I noticed your forums do not have analytics installed in them, nor in the wiki. It is a moot point, but as a web dev I would just have to point that out lol. The point I was trying to convey in that the future is uncertain and wherever you decide to take this mod will hopefully continue to bring happiness to you.
Oh and I do enjoy the Forge API because it does offer some really nice features, but certainly not a fan boy. However, if I were to build a mod for MC, it would be forge based I do believe as I want to ensure I reach audience. Now as I said before I am not a fortune teller, but I am going out on a limb and saying that my chances of building a mod for MC are next to zero. I got a headache looking at the source of just the Minecraft classes... I will stick with my web code lol.
If I may link to what FlowerChild said above, as well, one thing I have noticed is a pair of parallel assumptions from players in general, but particularly the Forge crowd. As FlowerChild said, more powerful in a mod does not always equal better. He outlined his reasons, and I agree with him. The assumption I tend to hear a lot that is not always spoken alongside that, though, is that a bigger fan base, or popularity, equals better.
...
Competition. I've not figured out the rules or whys of competition in the modding community here. Why must there be competition in the first place? I can understand having pride in our mod and mod author of choice (I'm certainly guilty of that) but that doesn't mean others can't enjoy what they enjoy too. Why is BTW often judged against the Forge and its mods as a whole? For as much as BTW made itself a singular entity by leaving the Forge, the Forge mods are not just competing with BTW - they are certainly competing amongst themselves as well. Why else would there be so much overlapping functionality in them if they're meant to work together?
Eitherway, just a few points that had been brewing in my mind that TheSimpleMajority and FlowerChild's post brought to mind.
I have never seen any competition in the modding community, but I view the community as a player looking for good mods to play around with. I have some staple mods on my forge instance that I cannot live without, RailCraft and RP being two of them. I recently added Twilight Forest to my list because the screenshots looked interesting and I thought a new dimension to explore would be fun. Same with MystCraft (which was up till its last update compatible with BTW, but it is broken now). Myst was fun as I could spawn a nice forest age and strip it down to the earth or a glowstone age to save me from cussing at my screen.
Now as a developer I can see where the feel of competition does play a role in the community, but large and large, forge or no forge, the community is just content on producing decent mods, with the exception of cheat mods like XRAY and TMI (neither are installed on my jars, unless it a tutorial jar. I would like permission to do a tutorial series going through the ages if that is okay with you FC? I am still trying to get my mic setup right so people can hear me, but I do a good job at explaining the items and how they are used. I also use RMCW (Real MineCraft World) examples on how they are used. It is not just a "okay here is how you make it, lets move on" video with me. I'd also like to do a website (not going to lie, need to pad my portfolio a bit better) for you as well that would bring your wiki and forums to one place.
Hey to anyone who understands how the LAN works, can i use BTW in my singleplayer, start up a LAN server, pop open hamachi and have a bunch of friends join? Just was wondering what would happen.
Hey to anyone who understands how the LAN works, can i use BTW in my singleplayer, start up a LAN server, pop open hamachi and have a bunch of friends join? Just was wondering what would happen.
it will never happen, the mod can't work in lan (and in 1.3.1)
it will never happen, the mod can't work in lan (and in 1.3.1)
Since jar mods are literally overwriting existing code, LAN would quite probably try to actually work. Everyone would crash because those blocks don't exist, but what can you do?
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"Better Than Wolves: where the line between morality and immorality is a mile wide and has loops in some places." - Stormweaver
I don't want to reopen the Forge debate, but I do appreciate you taking the time to express your concerns with regards to it in such a thoughtful manner.
I will make a couple of brief points about it as a result.
First, keep in mind that my problem isn't with people copying ideas in general. That obviously happens a lot in the mod scene. My issue was with collaborating with someone that was actively doing that both with me and with our other partners. You mentioned the BC pipe thing, which was actually the straw that broke the camel's back and caused me to leave. It wasn't even anything of mine that had been copied that did it.
Secondly, me and Eloraam used to be on very good terms and in pretty much daily communication through IRC in the first days of the Forge, so it really isn't a matter of getting to know someone in this case. It was actually getting to know someone better that made me realize I didn't want to be in that situation anymore. SpaceToad and I (who was the original founder of the Forge) on the other hand remained on very friendly terms throughout, including after I left the Forge, and right up to the time when he left the modding scene. This is obviously represented in how we collaborated together to make BTB a reality (one that I've decided not to continue maintaining in his absence however).
And lastly, one point we seem to differ on is that easier or more powerful does not equal better in my book. To me, pipe leakage in BC was an additional design consideration in constructing systems using it, and that's the kind of thing I enjoy and appreciate as a player. One of the reasons I liked BC so much was due to the design constraints built into it, while so many other modders just seem to aim for building more and more powerful functionality slowly heading towards the point where you push a "win game" button and are done with it.
That may represent excellent programming skill, but to me, it isn't game design. Games are ultimately defined by their rules, and without limitations in place, they cease to be fun. Really, for a mod to continue to be compelling the author needs to possess both programming and design skill sets, and SpaceToad was one of the extremely rare individuals that seemed to have both.
Anyways, to me, the whole Forge scene has largely devolved into various modders competing to make more and more powerful (not better in gameplay terms) functionality so that their blocks are the ones that wind up getting used by players when the whole mess is installed together (since players will naturally tend to use the most powerful tools at their disposal). As such, I do not believe that it encourages good design, but rather quite the opposite, and I am quite happy to be off in my bubble and not to be subject to that.
Oh, one last point:
I think many people severely underestimate the size of BTW's fanbase. Much to my surprise it did not drop at all after I left the Forge, and has continued to steadily increase.
The mod currently has tens to hundreds of thousands of active users. I think BTW provides a specific kind of experience that can't be found elsewhere, and that largely comes down to the amount of time I spend on design and on making sure that the mod's feature set more or less fits seamlessly with vanilla Minecraft in a way that doesn't keep reminding you that you're playing a mod. There just aren't really any other mods out there that do that.
So yeah man, while I know my detractors like to go on about the miniscule fan-base they say the mod has, and how me leaving Forge basically killed the mod, that's actually just pure fallacy. Both the mod and the community around it are stronger than they've ever been, and I continually get messages from folks telling me about how they tried the Forge mods for awhile only to get bored and return to BTW.
Now, don't call me a hipster, but I've never understood this association between popularity and "Goodness", regardless if it was applied to video games, people, presidential candidates, etc. Certainly a certain amount of common sense says that if a lot of people like a thing, there has to be something to it, but everyone ought to then investigate that thing and make a decision for themselves about what they think about it. Popularity does not always equal goodness, though, as popular music tells us. Who here wants to agree to the statement that just because he's popular, that Justin Beiber is the greatest musician of all time, hmm?
There are two things this question comes down to, for me. Firstly, while FlowerChild won't release exact numbers for us, BTW potentially has more active users than the number of people that live in my city. Not town, but CITY. To be a guy, making an add-on for a game - not even a full game but an add-on - in his spare time for fun to potentially have the active user base of a city is incredible to me, and I think it's pretty darned good regardless of what any other mod in the community is doing. That sort of thing I judge independently which brings me to my second point.
Competition. I've not figured out the rules or whys of competition in the modding community here. Why must there be competition in the first place? I can understand having pride in our mod and mod author of choice (I'm certainly guilty of that) but that doesn't mean others can't enjoy what they enjoy too. Why is BTW often judged against the Forge and its mods as a whole? For as much as BTW made itself a singular entity by leaving the Forge, the Forge mods are not just competing with BTW - they are certainly competing amongst themselves as well. Why else would there be so much overlapping functionality in them if they're meant to work together?
Eitherway, just a few points that had been brewing in my mind that TheSimpleMajority and FlowerChild's post brought to mind.
This kitten is traumatized by stupid. Please stop abusing the kitten.
Translation: FlowerChild, please spend more time and work adding a completely useless feature to the windmills to make them look pretty while serving no useful purpose to the mechanical system.
This translation is provided so FC can ignore the quoted suggestion. To be honest, I believe he ignores any suggestions in this thread already.
I absolutely LOVE the content in Better Than Wolves and I really want to get it for myself. My only problem is that I completely suck at modding and really have no idea how to do it. I know you said you wouldn't allow it to be in a mod-pack, and I respect that decision. However, would you be willing to make an installer for Better Than Wolves for those of us who can't mod? I would be grateful to you forever if you made an installer. If you can't, then how do I clear my mctmp directory? I accidentally installed Modloader 1.3.1 instead of the 1.2.5 one and I don't know how to get a new, clean directory. I have a mac with the latest OS, could you help?
Thanks so much,
ShadowRanger17
EDIT: Actually, if FC doesn't want to make an installer can anyone help me if FC doesn't want to? Thanks.
(How did the text get so weird?
An occasional gem still does appear here. Most ideas are utter rubbish (not just for the mod...in general), but I make sure to comment on it when a genuinely good idea appears, as I really do appreciate those moments of brilliance.
A modder can guarantee his/her mod works fine with vanilla features, and that's it. But when you put more mods in the same bag, the result can be redundant (ex: IC/BC/RP trio), inconsistent (ex: Thaumcraft + technological mods) or plain overpowered (ex: Equivalent Exchange with ANY automation mod).
Forge's biggest strenght, IMHO, is not by allowing you to cram up 9001 mods in the same installation, but for modders who don't wish to reinvent the wheel; this is not an issue for BTW, because the mod is far older than Forge itself.
So, all this "BTW is not compatible with Forge" whining we see here is actually moot. Just make separated installations for the major mods you like to play, and we're done.
One more idea for the pile of rubbish, shall I? BTW needs booze
I think your points are entirely valid Morv, and reflect a lot of my own thoughts with regards to popularity.
Maybe I'm an idealist in this regard, but to me, focusing on popularity when creating something is often like putting the carriage in front of the unichicken. I do believe that if you make something good, that you really enjoy for itself, that popularity will follow as like minded people will appreciate it and recognize it as a labor of love rather than as a "product". I know most of the media I myself consume is of that nature. I have no love for big-budget Hollywood films, pop music, the latest best-selling novel, or what have you. I *do* have a huge appreciation however for original creations that a lot of thought was obviously put into.
I spent most of my career compromising my design vision due to other people's concepts of what would be popular (as opposed to what is actually good and fun), and it was definitely a big contributing factor in me deciding to leave the industry. So, I'm certainly not willing to do that now that I have pretty much complete design freedom in working on this mod as a hobby.
As always, I make the mod because I enjoy doing so (and sweating compatibility issues definitely isn't "fun" for me), because making games is what I've always done since I was a very young child and I feel I personally need this kind of creative outlet to be happy, and because it represents the kind of features I personally want to enjoy as a player.
As such, it's a labor of love, and not something I'm doing to become famous. Sure, popularity is nice, and it makes me feel good that so many people enjoy the mod (I personally tend to think of it in terms of football stadiums
This mod largely began as a "statement" on my part with regards to cost/benefit in terms of game features, when I thought that wolves failed miserably in that regard when they were first released (hence the mod name). It's obviously mutated into something much larger since, but those kind of "bang for the buck" concepts are still a big part of who I am and my overall design philosophy.
Anyways, just to say that for every hour I spend working on a feature because it will be popular (like aesthetic blocks), there's an hour I'm not spending working on a feature because it will be good (like the Hopper). To me, that's the real tragedy of poorly conceived features that haven't undergone proper cost/benefit analysis. It's not that you wind up with a sub-par feature, it's that you wind up never getting the better one that could have been done in its place.
You know how you can see other players that have enchanted armour and weapons? I was wondering if you could make it to where you can see what enchantment it is. For Instance, to represent Feather-Falling, there could be small feathers/wings on the sides of the boots. And, possibly different size/shape feathers/wings for a better enchantment? It would just be great for Scouting in PvP, since we (The People I do PvP with) often scout people to see what armour they have, and usually enchantments dictate evasive or drastic manuevers, even when completely unneccesarry. If this has been discussed before, sorry, didn't know, and I'd rather play with the mod than read through thousands of pages.
The above mod, my friend, is a boss.
Well, it's an interesting idea to be sure, and I can see where you're coming from.
I'll think it over some. Immediately, I would be concerned about the potential loss of some of the sense of danger when confronting other players, as unknowns create uncertainty, which can lead to worry.
I'm primarily an anarchy player when I play SMP, and one of the things I love about it is the constant sense of living in fear of other players (I actually find playing anarchy MC has a somewhat similar sensation to playing DayZ). As such, I want to be careful about anything that might potentially reduce that.
Anyways, like I said, I'll think it over and weigh the pros and cons.
FC was going to update it, but you pestered and now he's going to push it back. You should know that FC HATES UPDATE PESTERING (and I know because I made the same mistake back in the days of MC beta). Stop. Pestering. FC. NOW!!!!!!
I can see where you're coming from as well. Honestly though, I think enchantments are too passive, and are 0% aethstetic, unless you count the "glow" effect of enchantments. Adding hints as to what enchantments something has would make it more aethsteticly appealing. Thanks for considering my idea, anyway.
By the way, what was the biggest reason you didn't want to release BTW as SMP, due to having to work more at updating, or what? It just seems to me that your mod is perfect for PvP, both in terms of resources and mechanics. It also has the ability to intimidate people through use of aethstetics, which I use now. I often find myself re-doing something after looking at it and saying "That looks like crap.". Better than Wolves is one of, if not the, the best mods out there. I never myself played the Aether. I was too busy playing Better Than Wolves.
And I know what you mean. I have a piston code door, and just behind it a mosaic of hidden saws. Type in the code wrong, and the door opens, but beyond the door... Is a whole bunch of saws, and another, closed door. Of course, this has no use as of current, since nobody is there to type the code in wrong.
The above mod, my friend, is a boss.
Posting hostile responses to update pesters just perpetuates the problem and further disrupts the thread.
I was waiting for the update that Mojang just released. Notch said he was going to make this change many many months ago, and previously the code structure with regards to the separation of single and multiplayer was a throwback to the 90's in terms of it not all being within the same code base.
So yes, it was due to the amount of work it required previously, especially considering that I knew the whole thing was going to change down the road and that much of that effort would be wasted.
And yeah, I realize many of the features in the mod are well suited to SMP, especially anarchy or PvP, as I designed them that way
It's always been my intention for BTW to eventually become an SMP mod, so I've been designing with that in mind from the start. Also, unlike most other major mods that seem to focus exclusively on creative SMP play (as in no griefing etc.), I fully intend to tailor this mod specifically for a PvP environment.
It's my preferred style of play, and one I feel has received far too little attention from modders (or even from Mojang).
At present, I'm working on just updating to 1.3 and getting the mod back to the state it was before then with regards to single-player. Right after I put out that first 1.3 release, I'll be moving on to tackling SMP.
Anyways, I hope you'll hang around this thread and potentially join the BTW forums (registration is locked at the moment though, until the 1.3 update is released). As a PvP kinda guy, I'm sure I'd appreciate your input in the coming weeks and months.
This kitten is traumatized by stupid. Please stop abusing the kitten.
lol don't judge me, I was half asleep (spent most of the evening in the ER with my mom. I was reading through the BTW thread while I was waiting. She is fine and had a minor infection. The hospital discharged her after 7 hours. I posted when I got home and of course FORTH is a word as is FOURTH. I do apologize for any spelling errors.
First I do want to thank you for the response and like I said I enjoy the mod greatly. I play it equally as I do forge based mods, and it does greatly sadden me that BTBC is no longer around. I also wasn't trying to attack your fan base in anyway shape or form, and again I do apologize if I came across that way. Reality is there is no fool proof method of tracking the amount of support that your mod carries. You can't use a download as a measure as it can be downloaded repeatedly from a single source... example I downloaded 3.91 at least 4 times this month (two hard drive failures, one accidental zip deletion, and finally when I migrated over to MultiMC. The only true means of measure is to use Google Analytics to measure the amount of traffic your site receives monthly directly, organically, and by referral. I did check and I noticed your forums do not have analytics installed in them, nor in the wiki. It is a moot point, but as a web dev I would just have to point that out lol. The point I was trying to convey in that the future is uncertain and wherever you decide to take this mod will hopefully continue to bring happiness to you.
Oh and I do enjoy the Forge API because it does offer some really nice features, but certainly not a fan boy. However, if I were to build a mod for MC, it would be forge based I do believe as I want to ensure I reach audience. Now as I said before I am not a fortune teller, but I am going out on a limb and saying that my chances of building a mod for MC are next to zero. I got a headache looking at the source of just the Minecraft classes... I will stick with my web code lol.
I have never seen any competition in the modding community, but I view the community as a player looking for good mods to play around with. I have some staple mods on my forge instance that I cannot live without, RailCraft and RP being two of them. I recently added Twilight Forest to my list because the screenshots looked interesting and I thought a new dimension to explore would be fun. Same with MystCraft (which was up till its last update compatible with BTW, but it is broken now). Myst was fun as I could spawn a nice forest age and strip it down to the earth
Now as a developer I can see where the feel of competition does play a role in the community, but large and large, forge or no forge, the community is just content on producing decent mods, with the exception of cheat mods like XRAY and TMI (neither are installed on my jars, unless it a tutorial jar. I would like permission to do a tutorial series going through the ages if that is okay with you FC? I am still trying to get my mic setup right so people can hear me, but I do a good job at explaining the items and how they are used. I also use RMCW (Real MineCraft World) examples on how they are used. It is not just a "okay here is how you make it, lets move on" video with me. I'd also like to do a website (not going to lie, need to pad my portfolio a bit better) for you as well that would bring your wiki and forums to one place.
http://www.sargunster.com/btwforum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5058
where I'm detailing my work.
Anyways, just wanted to pass that along for those that are genuinely interested in what's going on, as opposed to pestering about it
All in all, things are coming together quite well.
Good to hear
it will never happen, the mod can't work in lan (and in 1.3.1)
Since jar mods are literally overwriting existing code, LAN would quite probably try to actually work. Everyone would crash because those blocks don't exist, but what can you do?