it'd be better if it didn't work at all unless an admin allowed it, this is more like blacklisting ...
I won't remove it though. This is close enough.
I don't see how this mod adheres to your own policy of
Server owners must explicitly allow the mod to work on your server. If they don't give it an OK in some way, it shouldn't work.
Say you have a server with only one admin. While that admin is asleep or away from his computer someone joins with this mod enabled. Since the admin is away the user is able to go around the server and use this mod freely with nothing stopping him and the admin never actually allowing the person to use the mod.
So what is it? Does a mod have to allow it to only work when "Server owners must explicitly allow the mod to work on your server." or do you just sorta have to let people know you're using the mod and hope the admin is watching logs to see they are.
You guys are contradicting yourselves and your own rules which makes it nigh impossible to know what is the correct manner of doing things.
Good point. so with that: NewbyModder please follow the rules to the letter, a login warning does not properly follow "If they don't give it an OK in some way, it shouldn't work."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Link Removed
Stupidity on the rise with a 40% chance of shitstorms.
it'd be better if it didn't work at all unless an admin allowed it, this is more like blacklisting ...
I won't remove it though. This is close enough.
I don't see how this mod adheres to your own policy of
Server owners must explicitly allow the mod to work on your server. If they don't give it an OK in some way, it shouldn't work.
Say you have a server with only one admin. While that admin is asleep or away from his computer someone joins with this mod enabled. Since the admin is away the user is able to go around the server and use this mod freely with nothing stopping him and the admin never actually allowing the person to use the mod.
So what is it? Does a mod have to allow it to only work when "Server owners must explicitly allow the mod to work on your server." or do you just sorta have to let people know you're using the mod and hope the admin is watching logs to see they are.
You guys are contradicting yourselves and your own rules which makes it nigh impossible to know what is the correct manner of doing things.
Good point. so with that: NewbyModder please follow the rules to the letter, a login warning does not properly follow "If they don't give it an OK in some way, it shouldn't work."
People complaining about not being able to use this mod in SMP, you're playing the game wrong, and frankly, it's called hacking. This is a hack. It's only a mod in the same way that a wallhack is a mod for CoD4. I'm frankly offended by the flippant disregard for sportsmanship and fair play from the people I see using this mod, not only as a server admin, but as a player. I don't care if this isn't intended as a competitive game, you're devaluing other players' game experience by using it. Think about that, and if you still can't see why it's a big deal, then you seriously need to do some more growing up before you should be playing with the big kids.
As for the forum mods here, you're not helping. The problem here isn't the availability of these hacks on the forums. These hacks are going to exist whether you want them to or not, and nothing is going to stop people from finding and using them. At this stage, allowing him to post this mod in a version that announces to the server its use, is about the best you can do. By disallowing it, all you're doing is forcing the people who ARE going to use it, to go find a version that doesn't even do that much. You can't put the burden of supporting mods on the server admins, either. All that's going to do is kill modding and ruin the game for people, because it'll be too difficult for server admins to keep their servers up to date and make sure it supports A B and C, et-al. there are plenty of situations where the server admins may want to allow it, and in those cases you don't want to discourage them from doing that by making it unnecessarily difficult to do, otherwise, again, you'll just drive people to use or make hacks that can't be detected by regular servers.
So, at the risk of telling you how to do your job, here's what you need to do:
1. You need to let servers support client checks and OPTIONAL whitelist mod restrictions. This will take time, and you can encourage Notch and the other developers to bump it up on the priority list, but you're going to have to wait.
2. You need to encourage accountability for the use of cheap mods any way you can, and the simple fact is, you're very limited in what you can control. Don't let your reach exceed your grasp. If someone offers to publish an x-ray mod that announces to the server players/admins that it's being used, let them! You should be encouraging this, because it's better to have this version be the more widely distributed one than the other. People know how to use google, so keeping these mods off the forums altogether will accomplish nothing in the end, other than to give lazy people more options for circumventing the rules by picking out versions that suit them best.
Ideally, server admins should be able to allow or disallow different kinds of mods easily on their servers. This needs to be built in functionality for it to work, though. If the framework isn't there, you can't put the ball in the admins' court and expect them to use tools that don't exist. Likewise, you can't expect the mod developers to somehow find a way to force control on the admins. It's not going to happen.
So, for the love of God, just let him post this version... as an admin, I'd much rather be able to give a stern talking to someone who logs in with it announced, than not know anything other than the fact that who is and isn't using it is unknowable. If people are going to get their hands on this hack (and they will), I'd want this version to be the easier one for them to get.
This time I made a bukkit plugin that kicks players using it. Same methodology of zombe's mod pack. My previous solution was much more effective, but oh well. If you want to force admins to INSTALL A MOD to detect it then it's the forum moderator's call.
This time I made a bukkit plugin that kicks players using it. Same methodology of zombe's mod pack. My previous solution was much more effective, but oh well. If you want to force admins to INSTALL A MOD to detect it then it's the forum moderator's call.
The thing is, it's NOT the moderator's call. This is a mod, not a hack. It modifies the client. It's not breaking anything notch implemented or disabling security measures, and it is not running outside of the game in a separate process, hooking the game's memory. Abusing players because of the coder's shortsighted security is unacceptable. Whoever that guy's name is, he has no business vandalizing your posts, and you should be made aware of it.
I moderate for several forums with a playerbase larger than this one, and I can tell you your post is not violating any rule in any way, you are safe to continue. Our law enforcer here should brush up on basic coding and file hierarchy-- it would do him well!
I agree it's not a hack. It's a mod and the game shouldn't discriminate against any mod because that's in the free spirit of this genre. But they made a rule which disallows cheats (that which gives players an unfair advantage) and for some particular reason determined this should be crippled more than fly mod or even other modder's xrays. CJB's xray didn't get removed until I told them to do their job. Now I want them to do the right thing and fairly apply their rules (which I helped them legislate) to all mods or rethink their rules yet again.
If this xray gets crippled any further then like EarthShine said the inevitable result is that players will find another source. If they want to keep people using this xray which does less damage then they must not make it so hard to use on SMP. A chat message informing its use isn't hurting any server. Those that do get hurt would face any other potential threat just as easily because they aren't moderated or cared for. If a server can't view its logs then I bet it doesn't have the capability to stop grievers either.
I agree it's not a hack. It's a mod and the game shouldn't discriminate against any mod because that's in the free spirit of this genre. But they made a rule which disallows cheats (that which gives players an unfair advantage) and for some particular reason determined this should be crippled more than fly mod or even other modder's xrays. CJB's xray didn't get removed until I told them to do their job. Now I want them to do the right thing and fairly apply their rules (which I helped them legislate) to all mods or rethink their rules yet again.
If this xray gets crippled any further then like EarthShine said the inevitable result is that players will find another source. If they want to keep people using this xray which does less damage then they must not make it so hard to use on SMP. A chat message informing its use isn't hurting any server. Those that do get hurt would face any other potential threat just as easily because they aren't moderated or cared for. If a server can't view its logs then I bet it doesn't have the capability to stop grievers either.
Also I do not see how this is an unfair advantage. Let people play how they want to play. Why should a player care about what another player is doing in a game that isn't about competitiveness? Some people have fun mining, some don't, and that's perfectly okay! My only hope with this mod was to allow people to have fun the way they like. Who are the admins to tell them how to play? That's what I meant by free spirit of the genre.
This time I made a bukkit plugin that kicks players using it. Same methodology of zombe's mod pack. My previous solution was much more effective, but oh well. If you want to force admins to INSTALL A MOD to detect it then it's the forum moderator's call.
The thing is, it's NOT the moderator's call. This is a mod, not a hack. It modifies the client. It's not breaking anything notch implemented or disabling security measures, and it is not running outside of the game in a separate process, hooking the game's memory. Abusing players because of the coder's shortsighted security is unacceptable. Whoever that guy's name is, he has no business vandalizing your posts, and you should be made aware of it.
I moderate for several forums with a playerbase larger than this one, and I can tell you your post is not violating any rule in any way, you are safe to continue. Our law enforcer here should brush up on basic coding and file hierarchy-- it would do him well!
Rules of your forum ≠ Rules of Minecraft Forums
Quote from SofusTheGreat »
Do not remove this! Im a server owner, and i dont care if people use this on my server. I play on several servers and guess what? No one ever told me not to do so. And i bet 50% of all the players on my server uses this mod. This is not a cometitive game. If it was i could understand removing things like this. If people want to cheat, let them cheat. If people want to use X-Ray mods, let them use X-Ray mods.
How about you learn to give them the /give command instead of being lazy?
Quote from ZirixZero »
Lastly, here is one game-changing SMP mod. zombe's modpack Go lock that up. Actually don't. Maybe flying is worst than X-Ray. It won't matter that much. Being able to go 1000 blocks in under 1 minute doesn't matter. (Better stop mah self there before I start ) And zombe's modpack being on the wiki has no valid argument.
zombe's is hardly a problem since flying can easily be detected whether or not there is an announcement feature
You shouldn't have wrote all of that. You know why? Mods aren't hacks.
kthxbai
Love this response, because it's what you call it that matters right? I'm not cheating on your server with hacks, I'm cheating on your server with mods, chill out dude.
Anyways, I've come over to your side on this one NewbyModder, I think the message on server join is a good compromise. That should probably be the forum requirement for any "cheating" mods, to tell the server when you join that you're using it. If they want to go hardcore they could also require that the mod authors supply a bukkit plugin that turns it off, but I'd be happy just with the message.
Lastly, here is one game-changing SMP mod. zombe's modpack Go lock that up. Actually don't. Maybe flying is worst than X-Ray. It won't matter that much. Being able to go 1000 blocks in under 1 minute doesn't matter. (Better stop mah self there before I start ) And zombe's modpack being on the wiki has no valid argument.
zombe's is hardly a problem since flying can easily be detected whether or not there is an announcement feature
I don't think it matters if it's easily detected or not. It matters if it actually changes gameplay for yourself and fellow players.
Maybe you should talk with the main developers of craftbukkit to see if they can implement some sort of very basic client file-integrity verification in the server software.
Sort of like when you go onto battle.net, ESO2, Steam, or any other server- it checks to make sure the player is using an unmodified, legit version of the vanilla game files. You could code a very rough radio button GUI permissions manager to allow mods for everyone, for OPS and admins, or for admins only. Set the default values as the most restrictive, so that just by installing craftbukkit the server admin has full protection without having to explicitly do anything.
Then nobody would have to be online to screen for "omg someone's cheatin'" in the chat window. You just store the info in server.properties and go. And even if a player hacked x-ray to remove the chat warning, his connection would be rejected because he was playing with a modded game file of any kind. A simple checksum test would be sufficient, at least for a while. You want to join this server? Play vanilla. You want to flyhack and have x-ray vision? Set up your own server and use the GUI to allow modded game files for yourself or whoever else you want.
This is really the best way to screen out the cheats. And you can still have a server where everyone could be using x-ray, flying, and teleports!
And if it's a core part of craftbukkit, anyone using bukkit on their server at all would have full protection right out of the box. From anything - whether it's this x-ray or zombe's flymod or some unknown who just hacks in private and doesn't share.
Maybe you should talk with the main developers of craftbukkit to see if they can implement some sort of very basic client file-integrity verification in the server software.
Sort of like when you go onto battle.net, ESO2, Steam, or any other server- it checks to make sure the player is using an unmodified, legit version of the vanilla game files. You could code a very rough radio button GUI permissions manager to allow mods for everyone, for OPS and admins, or for admins only. Set the default values as the most restrictive, so that just by installing craftbukkit the server admin has full protection without having to explicitly do anything.
Then nobody would have to be online to screen for "omg someone's cheatin'" in the chat window. You just store the info in server.properties and go. And even if a player hacked x-ray to remove the chat warning, his connection would be rejected because he was playing with a modded game file of any kind. A simple checksum test would be sufficient, at least for a while. You want to join this server? Play vanilla. You want to flyhack and have x-ray vision? Set up your own server and use the GUI to allow modded game files for yourself or whoever else you want.
This is really the best way to screen out the cheats. And you can still have a server where everyone could be using x-ray, flying, and teleports!
And if it's a core part of craftbukkit, anyone using bukkit on their server at all would have full protection right out of the box. From anything - whether it's this x-ray or zombe's flymod or some unknown who just hacks in private and doesn't share.
And then nobody is allowed to play if they have any single player mods on their minecraft. And the hackers just fake the response to the server.
Im not asking for the file just a time.
Good point. so with that: NewbyModder please follow the rules to the letter, a login warning does not properly follow "If they don't give it an OK in some way, it shouldn't work."
Stupidity on the rise with a 40% chance of shitstorms.
Right so your going to lock this then?
I did not say that. I'll leave it open and he can edit it with the new links.
Stupidity on the rise with a 40% chance of shitstorms.
People complaining about not being able to use this mod in SMP, you're playing the game wrong, and frankly, it's called hacking. This is a hack. It's only a mod in the same way that a wallhack is a mod for CoD4. I'm frankly offended by the flippant disregard for sportsmanship and fair play from the people I see using this mod, not only as a server admin, but as a player. I don't care if this isn't intended as a competitive game, you're devaluing other players' game experience by using it. Think about that, and if you still can't see why it's a big deal, then you seriously need to do some more growing up before you should be playing with the big kids.
As for the forum mods here, you're not helping. The problem here isn't the availability of these hacks on the forums. These hacks are going to exist whether you want them to or not, and nothing is going to stop people from finding and using them. At this stage, allowing him to post this mod in a version that announces to the server its use, is about the best you can do. By disallowing it, all you're doing is forcing the people who ARE going to use it, to go find a version that doesn't even do that much. You can't put the burden of supporting mods on the server admins, either. All that's going to do is kill modding and ruin the game for people, because it'll be too difficult for server admins to keep their servers up to date and make sure it supports A B and C, et-al. there are plenty of situations where the server admins may want to allow it, and in those cases you don't want to discourage them from doing that by making it unnecessarily difficult to do, otherwise, again, you'll just drive people to use or make hacks that can't be detected by regular servers.
So, at the risk of telling you how to do your job, here's what you need to do:
1. You need to let servers support client checks and OPTIONAL whitelist mod restrictions. This will take time, and you can encourage Notch and the other developers to bump it up on the priority list, but you're going to have to wait.
2. You need to encourage accountability for the use of cheap mods any way you can, and the simple fact is, you're very limited in what you can control. Don't let your reach exceed your grasp. If someone offers to publish an x-ray mod that announces to the server players/admins that it's being used, let them! You should be encouraging this, because it's better to have this version be the more widely distributed one than the other. People know how to use google, so keeping these mods off the forums altogether will accomplish nothing in the end, other than to give lazy people more options for circumventing the rules by picking out versions that suit them best.
Ideally, server admins should be able to allow or disallow different kinds of mods easily on their servers. This needs to be built in functionality for it to work, though. If the framework isn't there, you can't put the ball in the admins' court and expect them to use tools that don't exist. Likewise, you can't expect the mod developers to somehow find a way to force control on the admins. It's not going to happen.
So, for the love of God, just let him post this version... as an admin, I'd much rather be able to give a stern talking to someone who logs in with it announced, than not know anything other than the fact that who is and isn't using it is unknowable. If people are going to get their hands on this hack (and they will), I'd want this version to be the easier one for them to get.
The thing is, it's NOT the moderator's call. This is a mod, not a hack. It modifies the client. It's not breaking anything notch implemented or disabling security measures, and it is not running outside of the game in a separate process, hooking the game's memory. Abusing players because of the coder's shortsighted security is unacceptable. Whoever that guy's name is, he has no business vandalizing your posts, and you should be made aware of it.
I moderate for several forums with a playerbase larger than this one, and I can tell you your post is not violating any rule in any way, you are safe to continue. Our law enforcer here should brush up on basic coding and file hierarchy-- it would do him well!
If this xray gets crippled any further then like EarthShine said the inevitable result is that players will find another source. If they want to keep people using this xray which does less damage then they must not make it so hard to use on SMP. A chat message informing its use isn't hurting any server. Those that do get hurt would face any other potential threat just as easily because they aren't moderated or cared for. If a server can't view its logs then I bet it doesn't have the capability to stop grievers either.
Amen.
for 12.3, it hang and close after connect to server
2. That mod who closed all the other threads should get banned for being a bad "noob" mod.
Rules of your forum ≠ Rules of Minecraft Forums
How about you learn to give them the /give command instead of being lazy?
zombe's is hardly a problem since flying can easily be detected whether or not there is an announcement feature
Love this response, because it's what you call it that matters right? I'm not cheating on your server with hacks, I'm cheating on your server with mods, chill out dude.
Anyways, I've come over to your side on this one NewbyModder, I think the message on server join is a good compromise. That should probably be the forum requirement for any "cheating" mods, to tell the server when you join that you're using it. If they want to go hardcore they could also require that the mod authors supply a bukkit plugin that turns it off, but I'd be happy just with the message.
No, thx. Also, this class seems to be useless...
Stop whining
Sort of like when you go onto battle.net, ESO2, Steam, or any other server- it checks to make sure the player is using an unmodified, legit version of the vanilla game files. You could code a very rough radio button GUI permissions manager to allow mods for everyone, for OPS and admins, or for admins only. Set the default values as the most restrictive, so that just by installing craftbukkit the server admin has full protection without having to explicitly do anything.
Then nobody would have to be online to screen for "omg someone's cheatin'" in the chat window. You just store the info in server.properties and go. And even if a player hacked x-ray to remove the chat warning, his connection would be rejected because he was playing with a modded game file of any kind. A simple checksum test would be sufficient, at least for a while. You want to join this server? Play vanilla. You want to flyhack and have x-ray vision? Set up your own server and use the GUI to allow modded game files for yourself or whoever else you want.
This is really the best way to screen out the cheats. And you can still have a server where everyone could be using x-ray, flying, and teleports!
And if it's a core part of craftbukkit, anyone using bukkit on their server at all would have full protection right out of the box. From anything - whether it's this x-ray or zombe's flymod or some unknown who just hacks in private and doesn't share.
And then nobody is allowed to play if they have any single player mods on their minecraft. And the hackers just fake the response to the server.