I've been rating custom maps since 2011, with over 700 under my belt.
Lately I've been wondering if there is still such a thing as a "PUZZLE" map.
Every one that I've reviewed can be reclassified as either "GAME" (usually logic puzzling for the sake of logic puzzling) or "ADVENTURE" (usually 'escape' maps). And it seems to feel right.
Thoughts?
Can you think of any examples of "PUZZLE" maps that cannot be classified as "GAME" or "ADVENTURE"?
What is/was it about "PUZZLE" maps that make them unique enough to stand out as their own category?
I think there's should be a different category for maps like Crossy Road, which is a (Mini)Game and maps like Sensitive, which is a (Logic)Puzzle map. When making the Puzzle category blend in with the Game category, there will not be a different category between the two maps, which should be there.
That's our opinion.
~Team Wooloo
Hmm. They are quite different. I do use a 'genre' (like a sub-category) as well where I could differentiate game from logic puzzle.
On a related note, I don't know what the difference is between game and minigame either
I think, with the definitions you've given, GAME is just a purer form of PUZZLE. It seems that when a puzzle map has a story, it becomes ADVENTURE. However, I think it's a good distinction to make, considering the thousands of ADVENTURE maps without puzzles.
I suppose I'd consider the map in my signature a PUZZLE map, because there's more emphasis on solving problems, rather than adventuring.
I'd consider the emphasis on logic and solving more important than the qualifiers of GAME or ADVENTURE.
Game maps and Puzzle maps are still different, though I believe the thoughts you have are because modern day puzzle maps have been foregoing any and all story for the sake of the puzzle alone. CubicBlocks, for instance, you labeled as a 'puzzle' map when it was missing huge chunks of what I would believe puzzle maps need. You ended up rating that map something close to a 17/20, when my rating on your scale would've been 6-8/20 (high on effects, low on experience, aesthetics, etc). In short, puzzle maps have been lacking in every aspect besides the basic 'problem/solution' aspect of them.
What's been in favor instead has been all the new features the game has brought up. This has been the trend of every genre, from PvP to Game to Adventure to Puzzle maps. I think the confusion is because what has been passing for a Puzzle map these days is nothing more than a tech-demo... hardly playable, raw room to room progress with slightly advancing difficulties. Or what made portal playable, without any of the aspects that made portal enjoyable.
You have a prediction this trend will finally start to settle down, since mapmakers will have enough practice (I would say they had enough fun) and want to and will proceed to expand and add more than just the raw effects. This will make the lines between the genres (hopefully) less blury.
I definitely think there's a difference! It entirely depends on the focus of the map though! Is the core gameplay of the map revolving around the puzzles you encounter, no matter the story attached? If so, I definitely do look at and consider it a puzzle map. Things like Bluzzle, and those style of purely puzzle challenges, perhaps with a bit of a frame story are easily the most pure forms of that. Other maps like Mizzle II still fit the Puzzle role in my opinion, even with the more deep story it has. It still revolves around the gameplay being a bunch of interesting and mind-boggling puzzles
Even with a big story attached to it, it really is all about the level design.
Example-wise,the forementioned Bluzzle, Stunzle, Mizzle, ect and all those "series of puzzle room" maps are definitely entirely puzzle based, and do fit the raw puzzle role. A lot of those duo-puzzle maps also fit that as well!
I agree that there is some grey area between the two, but for me adventure maps have a stronger storyline. Most puzzle maps I've played had a weaker storyline, simply because the emphasis was on the puzzles. But I also think puzzle maps need more adventure. I've just finished playing a brilliant puzzle map called Treasure Hunt, (I believe you've played it too rsmalec) and before you can solve the puzzles, you have to find them. Overall the map had only 5 or 6 puzzles, but having the exploration aspect made it feel more, and more importantly, still a puzzle map.
As for a map which is certainly puzzle, look no further than jespertheend's 'The Code' series. Pure puzzle, no storyline and not even linear.
I would say, if you have to worry about surviving, it's not a puzzle map. If you can die and it's not on purpose, it's probably not a puzzle map. That would be my basic indicator.
Not sure if rsmalec still needs this answering, but personally I feel that most classifications for map genres are too non-specific in general - the genre a map could identify as often gives a different impression compared to how it plays. In part, I think this is due to mapmakers possibly mislabelling their maps, but also in part due to the genres themselves being inherently vague.
Typically, I ignore the genre a map is identified as, in the same way that I ignore the genre a piece of music would be identified as, since judging what the genre is to me says more about the person that declared it as a particular genre, than it does say about the piece itself.
When I play a map, I try to avoid thinking about the genre, and instead focus on how it plays as an experience. Still, I can't help but dislike CTM's, as much as it contradicts what I just said completely...I think this may be due to the aim of most CTM maps being against what I enjoy to play, as a genre that usually shapes a map more than it describes it.
(SIDENOTE: I guess this is like descriptivism vs. prescriptivism in language - CTM mapmakers seem to try and uphold to their own prescription of what a 'CTM map' is, whilst other mapmakers instead just build what's comfortable, and describe it later instead)
Coincidentally, I started making a 'puzzle' map a couple months ago, but I'd call it more 'Puzzle/Adventure/Escape'
I agree and I think this problem in general also applies to escape maps. All escape maps I've played could be classified as puzzle, adventure, labyrinth, or all three.
At this rate it will be easier to state genres that are definitely unique!
Lately I've been wondering if there is still such a thing as a "PUZZLE" map.
Every one that I've reviewed can be reclassified as either "GAME" (usually logic puzzling for the sake of logic puzzling) or "ADVENTURE" (usually 'escape' maps). And it seems to feel right.
Thoughts?
Can you think of any examples of "PUZZLE" maps that cannot be classified as "GAME" or "ADVENTURE"?
What is/was it about "PUZZLE" maps that make them unique enough to stand out as their own category?
Thanks for your input
Hmm. They are quite different. I do use a 'genre' (like a sub-category) as well where I could differentiate game from logic puzzle.
On a related note, I don't know what the difference is between game and minigame either
I suppose I'd consider the map in my signature a PUZZLE map, because there's more emphasis on solving problems, rather than adventuring.
I'd consider the emphasis on logic and solving more important than the qualifiers of GAME or ADVENTURE.
What's been in favor instead has been all the new features the game has brought up. This has been the trend of every genre, from PvP to Game to Adventure to Puzzle maps. I think the confusion is because what has been passing for a Puzzle map these days is nothing more than a tech-demo... hardly playable, raw room to room progress with slightly advancing difficulties. Or what made portal playable, without any of the aspects that made portal enjoyable.
You have a prediction this trend will finally start to settle down, since mapmakers will have enough practice (I would say they had enough fun) and want to and will proceed to expand and add more than just the raw effects. This will make the lines between the genres (hopefully) less blury.
Maze Collection, Youtube channel, & RFW Series
Even with a big story attached to it, it really is all about the level design.
Example-wise,the forementioned Bluzzle, Stunzle, Mizzle, ect and all those "series of puzzle room" maps are definitely entirely puzzle based, and do fit the raw puzzle role. A lot of those duo-puzzle maps also fit that as well!
As for a map which is certainly puzzle, look no further than jespertheend's 'The Code' series. Pure puzzle, no storyline and not even linear.
I agree and I think this problem in general also applies to escape maps. All escape maps I've played could be classified as puzzle, adventure, labyrinth, or all three.
At this rate it will be easier to state genres that are definitely unique!