Firstly, remember that everything that isn't a fact on this thread is an opinion. What I meant was that it seemed wrong to me how in most CTM's people just throw iron and diamond at the player (I liked how you limited diamond in Vigilus Oculos).
Secondly, by repetitive gameplay I meant that in general most dungeons have gampleay that's overall similar, even if the aesthetics and mobs are different (mobs such as Amlups invisible potion stacks or his rage piggies are an exception to this statement) the base gameplay is the same (if you ever watch one of Rockenroll4lifes videos you can see he has a repetitive strategy for close quarter dungeon delving, which Ithink proves my point).
Thirdly, I meant this for maps that we're going to create that are meant for 1.8. I wasn't talking about maps that were made in earlier versions.
Lastly,the coins was something that I was asking what people generally thought about it. Also I've seen ED3, and I dislike it's coin system because the coins are non-renewable..
Acheivement get! 100 posts! (this forum is really out of date, I mine much more than just coal)
It's just a designer's standpoint though - we shouldn't talk about what "everyone" should do when considering map balance, because not everyone approaches it the same way. Especially when we talk resource allocation, some people treat it very differently than others. It's bad gameplay design to sit here and talk about how everyone should be doing something the same way
Ah, I think I misunderstood that point. Yup, I agree with that there.
Also musta misread that. For upcoming maps, yes, of course.
Oh, I was pointing at ED3 for an example of Coins done right. Well scattered, but limited, requiring you to consider your purchase choices.
Feedbacks? It's supposed to become a mine of sorts, and I'd like feedback on block variation and where to put buildings and bridges.
I like the shape, but if it's a mine, it needs natural stone and random ore veins. Coal Blocks would work really nicely here, as would Quartz Blocks, as ore veins.
As for buildings, loads of wood as Shafts to keep the ceiling up, a series of winding minecart tracks, and many small pit stations / housing would look and work really nicely. Furnace stations would also seem nice.
On another note, I apologize for the arguments in the past, I'm sure most of us have forgotten them but now that I am creating my own map with my own builds, custom spawners and such it's SLOW, HOLY CRAP, is it slow, haha! A lot of respect to anyone who make their own map not using someone's build because now I can clearly see the difference, I'm also enjoying creating this map way more than RotM, I guess I felt stuck with only trying to make it fun for one type of person when creating RotM.
It's funny, 'cuz earlier this week I went back and read over a few pages back when we were arguing about RotM, and just kinda hoped that you would come back eventually. I'm glad you've moved past that, and glad you don't hold a real grudge against us. Looking forward to your new map.
Mmkay, since this is a monster of a post, Imma just respond to the main bit I was interested by.
@Resources, I'm very much on Fangride's side of this. Giving out rare resources is something that fits into the map's difficulty curve, and thus can't be concentrated down to a standardized medium for all CTM maps. If I feel the player needs some iron to beat Intersection 02 easily (a la Dreadsky Isles,) then I'll give him a bit of iron. If I feel that the player has been good and deserves infinite iron because of how difficult some of the Intersection 04 areas can be, than I'll give him infinite iron in a nearby area. It's all about being aware of what the player is struggling with, and giving them at least a little bit of what they need to get through. I agree with your comment about diamonds though, they should definitely be limited until much much later in the map. However, if the difficulty curve of that map requires that diamonds be a common resource at Intersection 04 because of how difficult the areas are after it, I'm all for it.
Some more block variation and a few other things ended up looking like this. I'll post another screenshot once I've added buildings.
Also, there's a version with water instead of lava, which one looks best?
Okay so as a miner here's what I have to say about this (take this as real feedback even though it's partially laid out in a jokeful manner. I couldn't resist because of my name):
firstly I think the water looks better. Because of the sandstone and moss, the water also fits in more logically. As for the block variation, I kinda dislike it because this is just a bunch of random quartz and hardened clay, and no ores! I'd recommend either swapping some of them out for coal ore or just adding it (although adding it may be adding too much block variation). Also some wood beams with rail tracks and organised water "ladders" (they seem to fit in pretty well in mines I must say. Trust me from experience) would look good. One last thing though, there's just slightly too many redstone lamps. Also having a few hanging down or on "poles" would look good.
Some more block variation and a few other things ended up looking like this. I'll post another screenshot once I've added buildings.
Also, there's a version with water instead of lava, which one looks best?
This looks amazing! Change nothing :3 (well, really it won't make it look any worse if there's water, so if you want water you can do that)
Except that IM did most things, statistically, wrong. Its kinda like how people can still like Zelda II even though it went against everything the series was built on, as well as getting a lot of its mechanics and difficulty curves wrong. Its a fact that Inferno Mines is terrible statistically, but if you still like it despite that that is absolutely fine
What with all the "repetitive gameplay" etc. etc. discussion, I *really* wish I could show everyone this area I made a while ago... It was basically a massive box hovering in the middle of a massive cavern over void, connected to the walls by obsidian-and-cobweb "wires" about 5 blocks wide. You had to run across the wires and push some buttons in sequence in order to open up the "vault", which had a ton of good loot inside (to make up for all the times you fall into the void :P). The gameplay was probably the most unconventional I've ever done.
...speaking of which, Fangride? We need to get on that. Y'know, "that".
And no, I don't really think that the CTM community is suffering from "repetitive gameplay syndrome". While it may seem like maps often have a lot of similar areas, I don't know if that's a problem. As long as the areas themselves are fun, and there's an occasional area that breaks up the similarity of "big cavern fight your way through" or "dungeon crawler" (it doesn't need to be much, just a slight twist that makes the area unique), then I'm perfectly okay with it.
edit: if anyone figures out what the original inspiration for the "vault" area was, I will feel slightly less alone. Hint: It comes from another video game. Hint 2: There are 6 buttons.
Finally: Vinyl Fantasy II speedrun!
I really hope you guys like it. :-)
This post made me really nostalgic. I remember Helium talking about a VFII speedrun route that he'd planned, but he never posted a video of it because he thought people would be angry at him for playing such an old map. And now he's gone...
This post made me really nostalgic. I remember Helium talking about a VFII speedrun route that he'd planned, but he never posted a video of it because he thought people would be angry at him for playing such an old map. And now he's gone...
This post made me really nostalgic. I remember Helium talking about a VFII speedrun route that he'd planned, but he never posted a video of it because he thought people would be angry at him for playing such an old map. And now he's gone...
All the feels ;-;
People get angry for playing old maps? What to do with all those Sea of Flames II speedruns then?
Comments
Three challenging areas surrounding a snowy mountain base. From a visual perspective, I loved the Serpentine area. The rest of the build was solid - although the beauty of the mountain and one of the towers is a bit hard to admire at close range. Challenge is wholly in combat, particularly how to restrict mob pathing to avoid being overrun. The central base and minor checkpoints give you just about everything you will need in terms of basic gear, with enchanted gear obtainable through a mildly complex Villager trading sequence, and high-level gear/tokens hidden throughout the 3 challenge areas. The 3 areas can be faced in any order, and basic necessities such as food, wood, and lighting (glowstone) are provided such that the player can focus on the fun stuff. As far as miniCTMs go, I feel this is a very good example and length.
I was editing *something*, and discovered Fraps bailed out resulting in some missing footage. I compensated by inserting a 20s (probably longer than the original missing clip) black screen with a small apology. Is this OK? Or would you rather I redo in case you think it isn't legit or something?
If you're wondering what said missing footage is, it's
a clip of me escaping with a disc while running past witches, and then pillaring upwards for about 10 blocks.
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Retired StaffIt's just a designer's standpoint though - we shouldn't talk about what "everyone" should do when considering map balance, because not everyone approaches it the same way. Especially when we talk resource allocation, some people treat it very differently than others. It's bad gameplay design to sit here and talk about how everyone should be doing something the same way
Ah, I think I misunderstood that point. Yup, I agree with that there.
Also musta misread that. For upcoming maps, yes, of course.
Oh, I was pointing at ED3 for an example of Coins done right. Well scattered, but limited, requiring you to consider your purchase choices.
I like the shape, but if it's a mine, it needs natural stone and random ore veins. Coal Blocks would work really nicely here, as would Quartz Blocks, as ore veins.
As for buildings, loads of wood as Shafts to keep the ceiling up, a series of winding minecart tracks, and many small pit stations / housing would look and work really nicely. Furnace stations would also seem nice.
Mmkay, since this is a monster of a post, Imma just respond to the main bit I was interested by.
@Resources, I'm very much on Fangride's side of this. Giving out rare resources is something that fits into the map's difficulty curve, and thus can't be concentrated down to a standardized medium for all CTM maps. If I feel the player needs some iron to beat Intersection 02 easily (a la Dreadsky Isles,) then I'll give him a bit of iron. If I feel that the player has been good and deserves infinite iron because of how difficult some of the Intersection 04 areas can be, than I'll give him infinite iron in a nearby area. It's all about being aware of what the player is struggling with, and giving them at least a little bit of what they need to get through. I agree with your comment about diamonds though, they should definitely be limited until much much later in the map. However, if the difficulty curve of that map requires that diamonds be a common resource at Intersection 04 because of how difficult the areas are after it, I'm all for it.
Muahahaha, time to force your Resource Packs upon people! >:D
I'll echo what Fangride has already said. The shape looks excellent, but there should be natural stone and ores of some description mixed in there.
Oh, and @what you just posted, the water totally looks better.
Okay so as a miner here's what I have to say about this (take this as real feedback even though it's partially laid out in a jokeful manner. I couldn't resist because of my name):
firstly I think the water looks better. Because of the sandstone and moss, the water also fits in more logically. As for the block variation, I kinda dislike it because this is just a bunch of random quartz and hardened clay, and no ores! I'd recommend either swapping some of them out for coal ore or just adding it (although adding it may be adding too much block variation). Also some wood beams with rail tracks and organised water "ladders" (they seem to fit in pretty well in mines I must say. Trust me from experience) would look good. One last thing though, there's just slightly too many redstone lamps. Also having a few hanging down or on "poles" would look good.
This looks amazing! Change nothing :3 (well, really it won't make it look any worse if there's water, so if you want water you can do that)
Except that IM did most things, statistically, wrong. Its kinda like how people can still like Zelda II even though it went against everything the series was built on, as well as getting a lot of its mechanics and difficulty curves wrong. Its a fact that Inferno Mines is terrible statistically, but if you still like it despite that that is absolutely fine
Oh, haha. I get it.
This is awesome <3
...speaking of which, Fangride? We need to get on that. Y'know, "that".
And no, I don't really think that the CTM community is suffering from "repetitive gameplay syndrome". While it may seem like maps often have a lot of similar areas, I don't know if that's a problem. As long as the areas themselves are fun, and there's an occasional area that breaks up the similarity of "big cavern fight your way through" or "dungeon crawler" (it doesn't need to be much, just a slight twist that makes the area unique), then I'm perfectly okay with it.
edit: if anyone figures out what the original inspiration for the "vault" area was, I will feel slightly less alone. Hint: It comes from another video game. Hint 2: There are 6 buttons.
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Retired StaffGod, yes we do >.<
You need to get on my "that" too
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Retired StaffOh god. How do I keep forgetting these things!!! Tonight, I shall try and get that done for you!
This post made me really nostalgic. I remember Helium talking about a VFII speedrun route that he'd planned, but he never posted a video of it because he thought people would be angry at him for playing such an old map. And now he's gone...
All the feels ;-;
[YOUR AD HERE FOR JUST $69.69]
People get angry for playing old maps? What to do with all those Sea of Flames II speedruns then?
Yggdrasil was meh. Dormant Mines was a "blast". The one time I got the wool in Misty Deep, I realized Fraps decided to bail out on me.
Coming soon, I guess.
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Retired StaffWow! Those 7 Blocks right in front of the castle is soooo nice! Well done!Oh, You mean that castle? I think it looks real nice! Great job
It reminds me of like a Castle you would find in the lord of the rings :v
I think it shows great detail about the structure and I like it.
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Curse PremiumDifficulty: 7
Overall Enjoyment: 7
Comments
Three challenging areas surrounding a snowy mountain base. From a visual perspective, I loved the Serpentine area. The rest of the build was solid - although the beauty of the mountain and one of the towers is a bit hard to admire at close range. Challenge is wholly in combat, particularly how to restrict mob pathing to avoid being overrun. The central base and minor checkpoints give you just about everything you will need in terms of basic gear, with enchanted gear obtainable through a mildly complex Villager trading sequence, and high-level gear/tokens hidden throughout the 3 challenge areas. The 3 areas can be faced in any order, and basic necessities such as food, wood, and lighting (glowstone) are provided such that the player can focus on the fun stuff. As far as miniCTMs go, I feel this is a very good example and length.
SCORE
Aesthetics: 7
Creativity: 7
Gameplay: 8
TOTAL: 22
I was editing *something*, and discovered Fraps bailed out resulting in some missing footage. I compensated by inserting a 20s (probably longer than the original missing clip) black screen with a small apology. Is this OK? Or would you rather I redo in case you think it isn't legit or something?
If you're wondering what said missing footage is, it's