Looks great! I'll be playing it when it comes out. And that monument area looks a little dark to me; unless it's in a mushroom biome, I would light it up a bit more to prevent natural spawns.
Well I guess now that I'm finishing the construction of I3 I can officially announce the upcoming of my first real ctm-map: "The Ruins Beneath Us" soon I will put up a little Threat for this...
Sneak peak:
Well Yeah Im almost 75% done and quite content with it ^^
Looks good, especially the castle!
I would like to note the victory monument area is a bit small, seeing as players like to set up ALL the things there and they take up space, especially farms. Might want to just make it a bigger island.
The first picture could use a little work on the walls as well, it seems like you're going for an ancient tomb or something like that, I might suggest you make it look ancient. A good way of doing this is making the walls not perfectly square, add in spaces that look like the wall collapsed, maybe even add some sand blocks on the paths, even half slabs to add some variation to the Y axis.
Lastly, the canyon screenie could use some work on the rock layers, they look much to perfect and that isn't the case in real life canyons, rock layers are jagged and they don't perfectly lie on top of one another
I like the points i would normally agree with you on eternal battle but i feel watching vechs play it changed my mind, his strategy of using iron golems was genius and i think the area could be beaten more easily with that in mind and a hearty amount of skill, maybe a few deaths but whatever, it is the black wool. I do agree with you on the fleecy mobs though, especially the black wool pigman, he had diamond armor... and nothing else.... just smack him about 100 times and hes done...
I would like to note the victory monument area is a bit small, seeing as players like to set up ALL the things there and they take up space, especially farms. Might want to just make it a bigger island.
The first picture could use a little work on the walls as well, it seems like you're going for an ancient tomb or something like that, I might suggest you make it look ancient. A good way of doing this is making the walls not perfectly square, add in spaces that look like the wall collapsed, maybe even add some sand blocks on the paths, even half slabs to add some variation to the Y axis.
Lastly, the canyon screenie could use some work on the rock layers, they look much to perfect and that isn't the case in real life canyons, rock layers are jagged and they don't perfectly lie on top of one another
I like the points i would normally agree with you on eternal battle but i feel watching vechs play it changed my mind, his strategy of using iron golems was genius and i think the area could be beaten more easily with that in mind and a hearty amount of skill, maybe a few deaths but whatever, it is the black wool. I do agree with you on the fleecy mobs though, especially the black wool pigman, he had diamond armor... and nothing else.... just smack him about 100 times and hes done...
Hey. Hey guys. About the piggie. As vechs said, he wasn't the challenge, it was the crap around him. It was just a smaller way of setting up a fleecy box. With that, at that time, minecart spawners just came out. Nobody came up with the idea of putting one of those on a mob (which has it's flaws as well)... So what should he have put there? Just tiny fleecy box?
Well I guess now that I'm finishing the construction of I3 I can officially announce the upcoming of my first real ctm-map: "The Ruins Beneath Us" soon I will put up a little Threat for this...
Sneak peak:
Well Yeah Im almost 75% done and quite content with it ^^
All these pictures look quite good, i'll definitely be playing this.
So I'm making a giant fortress area, with one building being the wool area. Would it be a good idea to place position spawners around the fortress, with a high player detection radius, so the more you explore the fortress, the easier the wool gets. Good idea or just too evil?
So I'm making a giant fortress area, with one building being the wool area. Would it be a good idea to place position spawners around the fortress, with a high player detection radius, so the more you explore the fortress, the easier the wool gets. Good idea or just too evil?
Certainly sounds like interesting gameplay, might take a lot of work to make sure it's balanced though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There ain't much left of the world these days. The gods have forsaken us, there's no denying that. But still you press on. For what? A chance to sift through the ashes one last time? The hope to one day be called a hero? Whatever your reason, you've got a lot of work to do. The corruption won't leave without a fight, so you better get started.
Certainly sounds like interesting gameplay, might take a lot of work to make sure it's balanced though.
Well ehm there's my problem... I suck at combat
W/e. I'll figure something out. As soon as i made all my area's i'll probably spend a month trying to balance loot and mobs, before giving any beta testers a copy...
Oh lord. I guess I'm going to explain my reasoning in this for all of us to believe that it wasn't what it could have been. Now I may have some facts wrong. You can call me out on those, because I have not played past the white wool due to hardware limitations and issues.
We all have our reasons.
We all have our opinions.
Some may critique my opinions, but what does that matter? This is most of the time how we express our opinions on this newer map recently.
You can go ahead and disregard my opinions as stupid and hating on Vechs as well, but I am trying to write this in as calm as a state as possible. Others may react violently on this kind of message. And that's fine. We admins will have to warn them, and there may be some shuffling through messages and removal of messages. What I'm trying to do is get my reasoning out, without being all crazy and following you up a wall (That was a terrible image, but you should get the point).
Many of us in the CTM genre like great gameplay AND great aesthetics. And for some of us, we believe that Inferno Mines fell short on those regards. While any noob to the CTM genre who has never seen anything outside of vanilla Minecraft might regard this as "stunning and amazing", us CTMers who have seen more than a couple maps in their lifetime (I've seen a couple in my lifetime, I'll admit to it) know that this fell short in many areas. I may not have played it completely through due to hardware limitations (White Wool only), but what I have seen from Lets-Plays and Developer Commentaries is more than enough to state my opinion in a thorough manner.
Just like any Vechs map, there really is no erosion. Vechs has kept true to his classic "USE ALL THE SPHERES!" kind of ways, using just sphere brushes from MCEdit to carve out his caverns. Now, to anyone new to the CTM genre, not knowing about the boundless list of maps outside of Vechs' maps will never think that it looks bad. But when others, who have made a map or two in their time, or are, making one right now, will know that if you include only MCEdit brushes in your map, you will be frowned upon HARD. We just let Vechs do it because it's Vechs, and he prefers gameplay over aesthetics. But that isn't a reason to just disregard aesthetics like it’s not important. Because it is. Both gameplay and aesthetics mingle together in order to make the great experience we all know and like. What we don't like about Vechs' Inferno Mines in terms of aesthetics not only applies to that he used the sphere brush so commonly, but he used the same art direction the entire time. Ever notice how all the way through the map, the common theme is sandstone (And, again. My opinion, the icky variant) and lava. Yes, he may use some sand and gravel. Or he might use some stone and some glowstone and some ore. Or he might use some glass and stonebrick. But all the way throughout the entire map, there is lava and sandstone in some way, shape or form. Of course, you might mention that he eases off of the sandstone by the time you reach the Vexian Gallery, which he then switches to Quartz and Lava. But there's still lava. By about I3, many of us are sore from looking at sandstone and lava. It needs to look better. But there seems to be no sign of improvement. Maps that suffer from this sort of marauding of sandstone and lava throughout the entire map, us CTMers like to label it as the Inferno Mines Syndrome. But enough bantering on about aesthetics. We need to talk about gameplay, which is a topic on this map that many of us thought fell way below its mark.
The gameplay in Inferno Mines was obviously emphasized when this map was being made. Vechs obviously wanted to make a map that innovated with plenty of new gameplay mechanics that were sure to surprise and stimulate the player. With a year in development, many of us believed he would set the bar high and leave us all wowed. But unfortunately that isn’t what happened. The gameplay fell way below the mark of what we all thought would have been the greatest map we ever played gameplay-wise, looking past the borked aesthetics. But when you see how bad the execution of each of the gameplay mechanics and areas he made, it starts to feel bad. Really bad. Let’s start with custom mobs. From any mapmaker’s perspective, I’m going to describe them as mobs that differentiate from vanilla mobs, because they have special perks, or they drop additional items. I am splitting “normal” custom mobs from stacked mobs, and fleecy mobs, just for the fact that they are two different things.
There are some custom mobs that were on par for what they were made for:
FlameVenom Spider - An early game mob with an interesting gameplay mechanic and generous loot. The FlameVenom Spider wields a Stone Sword with Sharpness and Fire Aspect as its weapon of choice, meaning that a normal spider will now inflict fire damage. They are also equipped with Fire Resistance so that the spider can easily be identified by their flaming bodies. The loot they drop is very convenient early on. Stone swords with Sharpness and Fire Aspect, and impossible Unbreaking, make a nice early-game weapon that you can use and manipulate to your heart’s content (FlameVenom Fangs - Chipped and Perfect). Some leather for early armor and early recovery. Can also be used in a multi-player environment for extra armor, not saying you won’t have a crapton of it (FlameVenom Chitin). Some Fire Protection 2 books that is great for applying to armor, and combining to make stronger versions of it (FlameVenom Scales). And some extra XP due to it being a tougher and stronger mob, adding RPG-like progression to the way the player fights mobs (FlameVenom XP).
The Invisible Cave Spider - It is very simply, a Cave Spider that is invisible. But, due to the way Minecraft mechanics works, the eyes still render, causing the idea that you have to watch for the eyes…
But then there are the ones that crashed and burned…
Vechs’ Custom Witch - This thing is considered by many to be VERY overpowered. Not only does this thing drop so many things that clog your inventory it’s stupid, it’s also impossible to kill at melee range in an open space. Pretty much the only possible way to take these things out is by bow, in which Flame doesn’t work, and/or box you in in order to attack the feets of the witch. And not only that, they are enhanced with increased HP, Speed, Fire Resistance (?), and Jump Boost. So, all in all, an overpowered tank with the means to destroy you.
The Thornguard - The Thornguard is another terribly executed mob by Vechs. This thing is branded with a Cactus helmet with Thorns 10/15. That’s right. Attack it, and you sustain MASSIVE damage. But not only that, but it wields a bow. A [REDACTED] BOW. Enchanted with Power, Punch (?), Flame, and Unbreaking. So you are faced with a mob you cannot melee, so your only chance of taking it out is by shooting it, with a bow, and continually getting Thorns damage. While it shoots at you with its OP bow.
The Boomer - This thing is an invisible charged creeper with speed. That’s all it is. It is just a gigantic bringer of raging death.
So noticing how much he destroyed the concept of custom mobs, let’s continue on to talk about stacked mobs. He could have done some pretty cool things with stacked mobs. He could have made creative designs and gameplay standards with these things. But the stacks he made felt rushed, and overpowered, and to many of us, not really balanced. Many of us criticise him on this, but he has disappeared from the forums, so we can’t really tell him out on it on the forums any more Now on to the last section on the topic of custom mobs, the fleecy mobs. This is a topic that is very controversial to many of us here. The fleecy mob idea started in Black Desert 2, a now long-gone trashed map, which, quite frankly, was terrible in its execution. The entire idea was that you gain all your resources through custom mobs. But, with bland environments, and tough balancing issues, there was no hope at the time for the map. But he decided to bring the concept back, so that he could implement the idea into Inferno Mines. The fleecy mobs were a mess, and they could easily be exploited by the player by dropping them into a hole, and hitting the feets. Many veteran players here discuss that this is not the way it should be executed.
So now that we are off the topic of mobs, let’s talk about botched gameplay in areas. Of course, we can say that the gameplay is spot-on in the beginning-I1, although there are some issues with OP mobs in Lower Mines and Everforge. But then we get to I2. And here’s where things go bye-bye in terms of spot-on gameplay. In Hane’s Disgrace, things could be executed better, but it’s still alright. Mellow Cavern is not something that is really “mellow” anymore, due to him putting an abomination of a stacked mob in there. And then there’s Lush Ruins. Oh lord. Lush Ruins. The area everyone loves to hate. It was a complete spawner spam over the limit by about 5 000 000 miles. You kind of start to see the point when I point that kind of thing out. Then there is I3. First, there is Salire Castle. That kind of sucks in gameplay, because the boss mob can EASILY be boxed in, and killed. The jump boost mechanic was interesting, but in those kinds of conditions, they were a bit annoying and not really used well. Then there is Dumb Blast Zisteau Cavern. The concept behind it is genius, but all in all, the concept is poorly executed, as to not cope with the AI of pigmen, and the area in general looks… bleh. And then there is Wilhelm Cliffs. The recent updates make it look good, but the gameplay could have been made better. He could have included more custom mobs, and make it more of a challenge than it really is. You find the Victory Monument and then head to the Outer Inferno, where lies Camp Ember/Ember Castle (I really don’t know remember what it is ). That area just looks BAD. He said that that area accommodates for gameplay more than aesthetics, but when it looks bad, it isn’t that good. I haven’t seen a lot on the gameplay of the area, but what I have heard, it is not a fun thing to play. So we head towards the Vexian Gallery. There is the Blackened Archives (Don’t have much to explain on it, haven’t seen gameplay of it), Zistonian Battlecry, and Eternal Battle. Zistonian Battlecry is just a very badly designed area because it can easily be enderpearled, and running through is honestly plain silly. Eternal Battle is just too much. It is terrible. You have so much crap sieging you that there is no way to get to that fleecy mob on the other side. I really don’t know much, because, again, trying to go off of what people have mentioned in the past. People can back me up on this. So, to end this statement off, the map is good in the beginning, and in I1, but it sucks from I2 to the end of the map.
And the last thing to talk about is the random loot system. He uses mainly the random loot system to give his loot to the player. But this can become extremely flawed, as the player obtains so many pieces of diamond armor that they are running around in full diamond, hacking through the map with no care in the world. And there is so much stuff, that there is really no way to keep it all. Just the brute amount of loot in Lush Ruins was so much for Zisteau, which he then gave up on it. It is completely pointless to have a loot system like that.
So hopefully, in this essay, I have explained to you why the CTM Community does not like Inferno Mines. Again, I’m not hating on Inferno Mines, but showing its flaws and where it fell short. Hopefully this gives you a clear-cut answer, backed up by some better facts from the CTM Community on this map that clearly fell short in Super Hostile standards in our eyes.
EDIT: Because it feels right:
OK here is my response. Aesthetics -I don't really care about Aesthetics if it looks alright it is fine. Also The part about Sandstone and Lava how is that any different from using Stone the entire map? I look at that as a nice change from seeing nothing but maps made completely out of stone. What is wrong with having a map wide theme? I like it and you apparently just don't like sandstone and lava. To each his own I guess...
Gameplay I really think the gameplay was solid (most of the time) excluding Eternal Battle that was a mess.
Custom mobs - I generally liked all of the custom mobs excluding the Pigmen. They were so annoying and were generally so hard to fight head on and the invincibility for a bit after spawning makes it impossible to take the spawner head on with a normal pick. The witches were kinda annoying but not even deadly especially with like 400 regeneration potions in the map and when you make it to the monument you can make your own and have them stacked too. Than the final enemy I had a problem with was the Thorn Guards and I mostly agree with you here they are stupid almost all enemies with thorns are stupid unless you are supposed to sneak past them if it was a sneak area with invisibility potions it would be cool but any other thing and thorns suck. All of the other custom mobs I liked a lot the Flame Spiders and the Invisible spiders especially they were amazingly fun.
Stacked mobs - Most off the stacked mobs i hated The Gunship and the Cave spiders with creepers being about all the ones I liked. On the other side the Zombies with Iron ridden by skeletons were stupid and just annoying. (Why were they in the black wool the just seem like filler enemies) and their gear was useless stuff you already had.
Fleecy mobs -They all sucked and probably should of not been there they were all really easy. (And getting them in a hole and attacking the feets! HAH That is just stupid Just snipe one run in grab the wool and get propelled out by the others with their punch bows)
OK now the areas
The Skylights - Cool this amazing I loved it. great idea.
Lower Mines - The only problem with this area is the coolest thing about this area the rail way mobs. They spawn come down the track and pretty often get stuck some where on the track. Than build up 400 minecarts and lag the player and the only thing they can do is try to snipe the minecarts or go down there and die or creative mode and fix it. (This might be a minecraft problem but still it was annoying) Other than that I liked the area not difficult at all but nothing special.
Outer Darkness - This area was good I liked it a lot. Not a single problem in this area. I thought the vines on the sandstone looked really good.
Everforge -Another area with almost no problems. I kinda did not like the witches randomly falling from above when you did not even know they were there but ehh what ever. The only other problem with this is I had broken the witch spawner and blocked off the stairs down to the wool and was randomly a witch down with the creepers splashed the creepers making them blow up the wool. Luckily for me I still managed to pick one up by jumping down there and than just jumping out the hole the creeper made. But over all the area was sound.
Mellow Caverns - This area was good. It did not do anything wrong except being a little to easy. All the mobs in here were a joke. The gunship was just "here is some free xp" and the creepers riding cave spiders were a joke too they were not even super charged making them not do nearly enough damage to kill you. you would have to be so stupid to die here. I mean I was smart enough to immediately light the area the second I ran over to the wool. So I only saw one of them.
Hane's Disgrace - Now I had so much fun in this area. Pushing down those tunnels watching for those eyes. The only thing that kept that area easy is the tons of 2 minute regeneration potions. And most of the time the spiders would of spawned before you even get there. So you know where the spawner is and the mass blaze spawner is almost harmless I spawned them once ran out and than got an ender pearl and just ender pearled to the spawner and killed it. Over all the area was a lot of fun.
Lush Ruins - or as I like to call it "a Clustraf***" the area worked alright but it was just to jumbled. While over all the wool is easy to get but the area had way to many spawners. I remember when he released "Canopy Carnage" and was worried that the leafs would lag people. What happened to that guy. Over all the area was easy but could even give my new computer some lag. I even went and took on some of the random ruins and it was not to hard but still annoying and all the spawners just randomly in the ground in rail ways for no reason is extremely annoying if you end up under ground. (I one fell down into a bunch of spawners and barely got away by using the boober into the ground. I then started to tunnel out and hit lines spawners way under ground for no reason.) When the minecart tracks popped up in that area he should of just deleted them instead of leaving them and maybe keeping some of them would of been alright but all of them was just to bad. 5 or 4 out of 10 doable and not even hard but annoying and by that point the extra loot is pointless.
Flame Warp -Just some filler area shouldn't of been there or should of been expanded on once again not hard just annoying just walk in the area ender pearl to the wool take it and leave. Also the invisible creepers make no difference. Finally the how is someone supposed to know the next intersection is up there with no indication.
Dumb Blast Zisteau Cavern - I don't like the pigmen so of course my opinion of this area is not good. The pigmen are really hard to fight head on and destroying the spawners with a normal pick is not even possible with their briefinvisibility and immunity to lighting the spawner. So it basically becomes the area where you strike from above and rush spawners.
Salire Castle - This area was meh. nothing bad about the area but I wish he could of given us even better feather falling because unless you think of the half slab thing you get constant falling damage. Then there is the boss kinda stupid just shoot the boss grab the wool and leave and of course he has thorns because all good enemies have thorns! (Sarcasm. Can you tell?)
Willhelm Cliffs - this is another meh area even more meh than Salire though because there was just nothing here. Except some pigmen a bad trap and some extra loot (this time it is some what useful loot) oh yeah and there was some creeper spawner at the wool that never spawned anything for me. (I think they were invisible or something.)
The Monument -really good.
Unnamed resource cavern - Pointless and stupid. yes there is stacked potions but I found it to annoying and you can always get those at ember castle in random chests a lot easier.
Ember Castle - Pretty fun a little difficult but with all the gear and potions it was trivial. Just siege it top down. Over all this area was not to hard so it ends up as pretty good when I enter in the information on how much fun I had. I loved the wool the best.
Vexian Gallery -This is my favorite brown wool by far. Loved this area. Of course it was easy but still it is supposed to be.
Zistonian Battlecry -This area was fun I love the straight forward combat it was so fun to push into each spawner cluster. I also really liked running out of there and the signs were pretty funny. (and your point about just being able to ender pearl over making it bad is not even relevant if you do not like it do not do it vechs has already given his opinion on this at the front of the map (Not a direct quote but it is in a book at the beginning of the map if you wish to read it) he said that if you wish to do it he could put super traps to kill you but he is not gonna do that if players wish to do that you can do it but at your own loss) The only problem I had with this area was the Thorn Guards I hated them. They are so bad.
BlackenedArchives -This area was alright there was nothing wrong with it except it being really easy. The climbing the first structure was the easy and boring part there were only two spawners and I only even destroyed one I just ignored the other one and left. But the Library at the end was really fun I loved that area and the Chars were cool custom enemies I also loved them. Once again the Fleecy mob was kinda stupid same plan same results. And ender pearl out.
Now finally Eternal Battle -This area was really bad there were so many things going on at once that if you want to do the area without invisibility potions it is really difficult. I managed to beat it by taking over a ghast tower and tunneling through the fish making it hollow and than opening up the iron bars than luring a boss mob in and closing the door with sand and just shooting him over and over till he died. But over all taking the area head on is just a pointless hassle and you will have to bring an anvil and repair your armor tons of times but the thing I hate about Eternal Battle the most is that when you spawn you do not have time to analyse the area and than strike you are dropped strait into a giant mess with no time to decide on what to do. My favorite thing to do is to look at an area and decide on the best way to defeat it but this gives you no time to do so. It is not even necessarily hard it is just time consuming because you just have to slowly siege every spawner and than lure a boss mob out where you can kill it and leave. So there is almost nothing good to say about this area. On the other hand.....
Minor Conflict - This is the other black wool made for people with lesser computers. I liked this area. Unlike Eternal Battle it spawns you in a safe area giving you time to look over the area and than strike. Over all it is just the same thing but in a cave with the wool mob in about the middle and some ghast spawners on the sides and the exit on the opposite end. This area I liked a lot better because you can take it head on and still win.
OK now the only thing left is.....
Random loot - over all random loot is not a problem but just random loot and the lapis loot gets old really fast and if you don't die often or ever you will find it all just annoying. Thought while this is a flaw I will put up with it because during his dev com he did say that in his later maps he will have more tiers of loot.
Over all I think the map was just fine it was not AMAZING or anything but it was not bad over all it was above average and in the end it was just a test map to test out anvils, books and random loot.
And I will not touch on the head hunter because that was just a breeze. To easy to even mention. I will not write something that long ever again! EVER!!! But I would not feel right if I did not respond with something just as pointlessly long
Oh I have a lot of reasons. (And I think even more than Witty over there. ;p)
But like it's happened before, (Vechs thread) I don't want to start a argument about it.
I get what you mean I almost did not reply to that other comment but I did it!
Well I guess now that I'm finishing the construction of I3 I can officially announce the upcoming of my first real ctm-map: "The Ruins Beneath Us" soon I will put up a little Threat for this...
Sneak peak:
Well Yeah Im almost 75% done and quite content with it ^^
That looks really cool I would love to play it when it comes out.
Alright. I can see where you come from with those from each .
But with your comment on the aesthetics, yes, lots of maps have the theme of stone all the way throughout the map. But they mix the stone with other blocks, and they manage to variate with other blocks to make it look like a unique area in EVERY area you go into. Or in a sandstone map, they make many unique areas that do not always use sanstone. EVERY CTM mapper knows this. Without block variation, a map just looks... gross. In all of our opinions. That's why a couple of us really like Waking Up. Not only does it have great gameplay, but he makes good looking environments as well, adding variation of blocks so it's not just "Oh look. Another stone area. Same old, same old.". But it looks like most of the time, Vechs was lazy, and just used sandstone and lava, and just added little patches of different blocks around. There is no sign of block variation. So the area just doesn't look good. It's kind of like "Oh look. Another sandstone and lava area. Same old, same old."
Alright. I can see where you come from with those from each .
But with your comment on the aesthetics, yes, lots of maps have the theme of stone all the way throughout the map. But they mix the stone with other blocks, and they manage to variate with other blocks to make it look like a unique area in EVERY area you go into. Or in a sandstone map, they make many unique areas that do not always use sanstone. EVERY CTM mapper knows this. Without block variation, a map just looks... gross. In all of our opinions. But it looks like most of the time, Vechs was lazy, and just used sandstone and lava, and just added little patches of different blocks around. There is no sign of block variation. So the area just doesn't look good. It's kind of like "Oh look. Another sandstone and lava area. Same old, same old."
Am i the only person on earth that thinks hanes disgrace, upper mines and outer darkness look great?
Well... its called keepInventory. And its called being a nice friend and giving him a little void.
But if you are playing a CTM map with KeepInventory on, it doesn't really portray the true experience of a CTM map. You may not have an accurate experience with it. Map balance and map difficulty will feel significantly different if you are playing with that gamerule. If you want to play the map how it was intended and have a more accurate experience, then you might want to play it again, alone, without keepInventory.
Well... its called keepInventory. And its called being a nice friend and giving him a little void.
Then where's the survival aspect? Or is it another type of CTM then most are? (pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee don't start the discussion again guys)
Btw argh. Just argh. For some reason all my zombies are going twice as fest. Like all of them. And me too Looks cool. Oh and i mine twice as fast as well.
Then where's the survival aspect? Or is it another type of CTM then most are? (pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee don't start the discussion again guys)
Btw argh. Just argh. For some reason all my zombies are going twice as fest. Like all of them. And me too Looks cool. Oh and i mine twice as fast as well.
Its Rugged Horizons...and my friend sucks at minecraft. So I didn't want him to rage.
But if you are playing a CTM map with KeepInventory on, it doesn't really portray the true experience of a CTM map. You may not have an accurate experience with it. Map balance and map difficulty will feel significantly different if you are playing with that gamerule. If you want to play the map how it was intended and have a more accurate experience, then you might want to play it again, alone, without keepInventory.
Look at post above. And I already played it legit by myself.
Don't know the map, that's my average on a CTM map...
Looks great! I'll be playing it when it comes out. And that monument area looks a little dark to me; unless it's in a mushroom biome, I would light it up a bit more to prevent natural spawns.
Looks good, especially the castle!
I would like to note the victory monument area is a bit small, seeing as players like to set up ALL the things there and they take up space, especially farms. Might want to just make it a bigger island.
The first picture could use a little work on the walls as well, it seems like you're going for an ancient tomb or something like that, I might suggest you make it look ancient. A good way of doing this is making the walls not perfectly square, add in spaces that look like the wall collapsed, maybe even add some sand blocks on the paths, even half slabs to add some variation to the Y axis.
Lastly, the canyon screenie could use some work on the rock layers, they look much to perfect and that isn't the case in real life canyons, rock layers are jagged and they don't perfectly lie on top of one another
I like the points i would normally agree with you on eternal battle but i feel watching vechs play it changed my mind, his strategy of using iron golems was genius and i think the area could be beaten more easily with that in mind and a hearty amount of skill, maybe a few deaths but whatever, it is the black wool. I do agree with you on the fleecy mobs though, especially the black wool pigman, he had diamond armor... and nothing else.... just smack him about 100 times and hes done...
Hey. Hey guys. About the piggie. As vechs said, he wasn't the challenge, it was the crap around him. It was just a smaller way of setting up a fleecy box. With that, at that time, minecart spawners just came out. Nobody came up with the idea of putting one of those on a mob (which has it's flaws as well)... So what should he have put there? Just tiny fleecy box?
Did i miss a reference at the wooden shovel in UT3?
-Vintage Beef, RotM 2 LP episode 19
Certainly sounds like interesting gameplay, might take a lot of work to make sure it's balanced though.
Just watched that now actually, ad beef is extnremely right in that regard.
Well ehm there's my problem... I suck at combat
W/e. I'll figure something out. As soon as i made all my area's i'll probably spend a month trying to balance loot and mobs, before giving any beta testers a copy...
OK here is my response.
Aesthetics -I don't really care about Aesthetics if it looks alright it is fine. Also The part about Sandstone and Lava how is that any different from using Stone the entire map? I look at that as a nice change from seeing nothing but maps made completely out of stone. What is wrong with having a map wide theme? I like it and you apparently just don't like sandstone and lava. To each his own I guess...
Gameplay I really think the gameplay was solid (most of the time) excluding Eternal Battle that was a mess.
Custom mobs - I generally liked all of the custom mobs excluding the Pigmen. They were so annoying and were generally so hard to fight head on and the invincibility for a bit after spawning makes it impossible to take the spawner head on with a normal pick. The witches were kinda annoying but not even deadly especially with like 400 regeneration potions in the map and when you make it to the monument you can make your own and have them stacked too. Than the final enemy I had a problem with was the Thorn Guards and I mostly agree with you here they are stupid almost all enemies with thorns are stupid unless you are supposed to sneak past them if it was a sneak area with invisibility potions it would be cool but any other thing and thorns suck.
All of the other custom mobs I liked a lot the Flame Spiders and the Invisible spiders especially they were amazingly fun.
Stacked mobs - Most off the stacked mobs i hated The Gunship and the Cave spiders with creepers being about all the ones I liked. On the other side the Zombies with Iron ridden by skeletons were stupid and just annoying. (Why were they in the black wool the just seem like filler enemies) and their gear was useless stuff you already had.
Fleecy mobs -They all sucked and probably should of not been there they were all really easy. (And getting them in a hole and attacking the feets! HAH That is just stupid Just snipe one run in grab the wool and get propelled out by the others with their punch bows)
OK now the areas
The Skylights - Cool this amazing I loved it. great idea.
Lower Mines - The only problem with this area is the coolest thing about this area the rail way mobs. They spawn come down the track and pretty often get stuck some where on the track. Than build up 400 minecarts and lag the player and the only thing they can do is try to snipe the minecarts or go down there and die or creative mode and fix it. (This might be a minecraft problem but still it was annoying) Other than that I liked the area not difficult at all but nothing special.
Outer Darkness - This area was good I liked it a lot. Not a single problem in this area. I thought the vines on the sandstone looked really good.
Everforge -Another area with almost no problems. I kinda did not like the witches randomly falling from above when you did not even know they were there but ehh what ever. The only other problem with this is I had broken the witch spawner and blocked off the stairs down to the wool and was randomly a witch down with the creepers splashed the creepers making them blow up the wool. Luckily for me I still managed to pick one up by jumping down there and than just jumping out the hole the creeper made. But over all the area was sound.
Mellow Caverns - This area was good. It did not do anything wrong except being a little to easy. All the mobs in here were a joke. The gunship was just "here is some free xp" and the creepers riding cave spiders were a joke too they were not even super charged making them not do nearly enough damage to kill you. you would have to be so stupid to die here. I mean I was smart enough to immediately light the area the second I ran over to the wool. So I only saw one of them.
Hane's Disgrace - Now I had so much fun in this area. Pushing down those tunnels watching for those eyes. The only thing that kept that area easy is the tons of 2 minute regeneration potions. And most of the time the spiders would of spawned before you even get there. So you know where the spawner is and the mass blaze spawner is almost harmless I spawned them once ran out and than got an ender pearl and just ender pearled to the spawner and killed it. Over all the area was a lot of fun.
Lush Ruins - or as I like to call it "a Clustraf***" the area worked alright but it was just to jumbled. While over all the wool is easy to get but the area had way to many spawners. I remember when he released "Canopy Carnage" and was worried that the leafs would lag people. What happened to that guy. Over all the area was easy but could even give my new computer some lag. I even went and took on some of the random ruins and it was not to hard but still annoying and all the spawners just randomly in the ground in rail ways for no reason is extremely annoying if you end up under ground. (I one fell down into a bunch of spawners and barely got away by using the boober into the ground. I then started to tunnel out and hit lines spawners way under ground for no reason.) When the minecart tracks popped up in that area he should of just deleted them instead of leaving them and maybe keeping some of them would of been alright but all of them was just to bad. 5 or 4 out of 10 doable and not even hard but annoying and by that point the extra loot is pointless.
Flame Warp -Just some filler area shouldn't of been there or should of been expanded on once again not hard just annoying just walk in the area ender pearl to the wool take it and leave. Also the invisible creepers make no difference. Finally the how is someone supposed to know the next intersection is up there with no indication.
Dumb Blast Zisteau Cavern - I don't like the pigmen so of course my opinion of this area is not good. The pigmen are really hard to fight head on and destroying the spawners with a normal pick is not even possible with their briefinvisibility and immunity to lighting the spawner. So it basically becomes the area where you strike from above and rush spawners.
Salire Castle - This area was meh. nothing bad about the area but I wish he could of given us even better feather falling because unless you think of the half slab thing you get constant falling damage. Then there is the boss kinda stupid just shoot the boss grab the wool and leave and of course he has thorns because all good enemies have thorns! (Sarcasm. Can you tell?)
Willhelm Cliffs - this is another meh area even more meh than Salire though because there was just nothing here. Except some pigmen a bad trap and some extra loot (this time it is some what useful loot) oh yeah and there was some creeper spawner at the wool that never spawned anything for me. (I think they were invisible or something.)
The Monument -really good.
Unnamed resource cavern - Pointless and stupid. yes there is stacked potions but I found it to annoying and you can always get those at ember castle in random chests a lot easier.
Ember Castle - Pretty fun a little difficult but with all the gear and potions it was trivial. Just siege it top down. Over all this area was not to hard so it ends up as pretty good when I enter in the information on how much fun I had. I loved the wool the best.
Vexian Gallery -This is my favorite brown wool by far. Loved this area. Of course it was easy but still it is supposed to be.
Zistonian Battlecry -This area was fun I love the straight forward combat it was so fun to push into each spawner cluster. I also really liked running out of there and the signs were pretty funny. (and your point about just being able to ender pearl over making it bad is not even relevant if you do not like it do not do it vechs has already given his opinion on this at the front of the map (Not a direct quote but it is in a book at the beginning of the map if you wish to read it) he said that if you wish to do it he could put super traps to kill you but he is not gonna do that if players wish to do that you can do it but at your own loss) The only problem I had with this area was the Thorn Guards I hated them. They are so bad.
BlackenedArchives -This area was alright there was nothing wrong with it except it being really easy. The climbing the first structure was the easy and boring part there were only two spawners and I only even destroyed one I just ignored the other one and left. But the Library at the end was really fun I loved that area and the Chars were cool custom enemies I also loved them. Once again the Fleecy mob was kinda stupid same plan same results. And ender pearl out.
Now finally
Eternal Battle -This area was really bad there were so many things going on at once that if you want to do the area without invisibility potions it is really difficult. I managed to beat it by taking over a ghast tower and tunneling through the fish making it hollow and than opening up the iron bars than luring a boss mob in and closing the door with sand and just shooting him over and over till he died. But over all taking the area head on is just a pointless hassle and you will have to bring an anvil and repair your armor tons of times but the thing I hate about Eternal Battle the most is that when you spawn you do not have time to analyse the area and than strike you are dropped strait into a giant mess with no time to decide on what to do. My favorite thing to do is to look at an area and decide on the best way to defeat it but this gives you no time to do so. It is not even necessarily hard it is just time consuming because you just have to slowly siege every spawner and than lure a boss mob out where you can kill it and leave. So there is almost nothing good to say about this area. On the other hand.....
Minor Conflict - This is the other black wool made for people with lesser computers. I liked this area. Unlike Eternal Battle it spawns you in a safe area giving you time to look over the area and than strike. Over all it is just the same thing but in a cave with the wool mob in about the middle and some ghast spawners on the sides and the exit on the opposite end. This area I liked a lot better because you can take it head on and still win.
OK now the only thing left is.....
Random loot - over all random loot is not a problem but just random loot and the lapis loot gets old really fast and if you don't die often or ever you will find it all just annoying. Thought while this is a flaw I will put up with it because during his dev com he did say that in his later maps he will have more tiers of loot.
Over all I think the map was just fine it was not AMAZING or anything but it was not bad over all it was above average and in the end it was just a test map to test out anvils, books and random loot.
And I will not touch on the head hunter because that was just a breeze. To easy to even mention.
I will not write something that long ever again! EVER!!! But I would not feel right if I did not respond with something just as pointlessly long
Oh I have a lot of reasons. (And I think even more than Witty over there. ;p)
But like it's happened before, (Vechs thread) I don't want to start a argument about it.
I get what you mean I almost did not reply to that other comment but I did it!
That looks really cool I would love to play it when it comes out.
Alright. I can see where you come from with those from each .
But with your comment on the aesthetics, yes, lots of maps have the theme of stone all the way throughout the map. But they mix the stone with other blocks, and they manage to variate with other blocks to make it look like a unique area in EVERY area you go into. Or in a sandstone map, they make many unique areas that do not always use sanstone. EVERY CTM mapper knows this. Without block variation, a map just looks... gross. In all of our opinions. That's why a couple of us really like Waking Up. Not only does it have great gameplay, but he makes good looking environments as well, adding variation of blocks so it's not just "Oh look. Another stone area. Same old, same old.". But it looks like most of the time, Vechs was lazy, and just used sandstone and lava, and just added little patches of different blocks around. There is no sign of block variation. So the area just doesn't look good. It's kind of like "Oh look. Another sandstone and lava area. Same old, same old."
Am i the only person on earth that thinks hanes disgrace, upper mines and outer darkness look great?
Well... its called keepInventory. And its called being a nice friend and giving him a little void.
My Thread: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1881805-ctm-wip-lands-of-mystery-by-bnm-new-map-started/#entry23248316
Yeah, I don't get it either. Check out episode 7 or 8 of his Devcom LP to see how he phrased it.
Ooh, I may have to watch that episode and hear that firsthand. The fact that they just went and said it in a map like RotM is really interesting.
But if you are playing a CTM map with KeepInventory on, it doesn't really portray the true experience of a CTM map. You may not have an accurate experience with it. Map balance and map difficulty will feel significantly different if you are playing with that gamerule. If you want to play the map how it was intended and have a more accurate experience, then you might want to play it again, alone, without keepInventory.
Then where's the survival aspect? Or is it another type of CTM then most are? (pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee don't start the discussion again guys)
Btw argh. Just argh. For some reason all my zombies are going twice as fest. Like all of them. And me too Looks cool. Oh and i mine twice as fast as well.
Yep thats about it.
Its Rugged Horizons...and my friend sucks at minecraft. So I didn't want him to rage.
Look at post above. And I already played it legit by myself.
My Thread: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1881805-ctm-wip-lands-of-mystery-by-bnm-new-map-started/#entry23248316