I really didn't want to start an argument about RotM just by writing a review. I actually tried to prevent it...
Can we just say "some people like the concept and some are against it" and leave it at that? Honestly, I kinda feel bad for Joel because this conversation pops up whenever someone mentions the map.
I hate to play the devil's advocate here ... maybe I'm just an old timer sitting in his rocking chair. But I can't bring myself to even play RotM, simply because it's essentially stolen work.
Yes, as a map itself it's great. Yay! Great! But the ideas behind the map are, quite simply, stolen. They were done by other people first.
Your comment is a good example. The Bogota area was cool. Well, would you still have liked it if you took the Bogota out and replaced it with something else? It wouldn't be a trip down memory lane anymore, so what would it be?
I suppose I'm just upset that Joel essentially has to do less work - simply building upon existing structures, I mean, he placed spawners, oh my gosh! - in exchange for a lot more recognition and Let's Plays etc etc etc because of the map's premise. A lot of small mapmakers spend a long time coming up with original ideas, and have to fight very hard for such a reward like a popular Let's Play, but he gets a shortcut.
For his next map I'd like to see him make something original. I can't really say he's a good mapmaker until he proves that he's good at concepts and ideas as well as just placing spawners. This is vital when you consider the fact that ideas and originality are some of the hardest parts of map development.
If he can make a good map from his own ideas, then cool! He's a good mapmaker, props to him.
If he can't, well then I'll just have to skip his work on account of my morals. I worry for how long he can keep it up. I hope you guys enjoy Ruins of the Mindcrackers 3.
Or maybe it's cool to use existing work for maps nowadays. Maybe that's the trend. I suppose I should just take areas from SH Legendary and Vinyl Fantasy, make the mood fit, place some spawners, and call it Legendary Fantasy. Receive much praise and acclaim. That's the thing now, right guys?
Right guys?
(I wonder if he got permission from the Mindcrackers to use their builds.)
Coming soon: Ruins of the Monumentans lolnotreally
Honestly I'm fine if you make a map using other peoples builds (if you have permission) but when you become more famous then every single one of us here despite the work and quality we put into our maps after you use pre made builds it just... it just urks me.
I really didn't want to start an argument about RotM just by writing a review. I actually tried to prevent it by writing this:
Can we just say "some people like the concept and some are against it" and leave it at that? Honestly, I kinda feel bad for Joel because this conversation pops up whenever someone mentions the map.
Hey Guys, just dropping in. Uhhh, can we not argue over a such stupid a stupid thing? his map is fun to the sketch and thats what he said. The "monetization of others works" isnt happening here, if beef, pause, and etho played through the first one and didnt complain about there stuffs being used, AND them giving a map download to area It seems like plenty of permission to me to use them in a map...
This argument is so childish
Let success be success some people get more popular than others hen a big name LPs them. Happens
1.6 in general is pretty stupid imo. The resource packs are cool and all, but very limited, seeing as how you can't add any custom sounds, just edit existing ones. As a map maker I am dissapointed, it severely restricts my abilities to edit and play custom sounds, while still keeping the vanilla feeling. Attributes are cool, but I'd rather see new items, dungeon exclusive items, and rare mob drops. Horses are useless in most CTM maps as far as I'm concerned, and while it may be a fun addition, it's more of a hassle that it is useful. Minecraft really needs more monsters though, like a stationary ranged monster for example. Soo many possibilities. I haven't been feeling Mojang's way of prioritizing featues lately. What happened to Spike blocks? Dragons?
Hardened Clay Blocks rock, though. Thanks BTC.
I personally love 1.6.1
not all updates need to be for CTM players or mapmakers, even though they are trying to please us too
The game has so many mobs already, any more would just make the game lose the simplicity we all love it for.
Remember, most of Minecraft's players play survival, and this update makes it so much funner.
So, I can understand the "stolen work" argument. Intersection 1 of the first map lacks in the creativity department (except for the genius that was the lens as an intersection) and generally feels lazy. Each area is pretty much the same: An island with trees on it with a bedrock cloud above it and a copied-and-pasted house in the middle. It is very much what Zap is describing. But as the map goes on, it becomes something much more: caverns get larger and more creative, and the mindcrack builds seem more and more like an afterthought (IMO that's a good thing in this situation). It looks like it started out as a lazy uninspired project, but it gradually becomes a great CTM map with a slight mindcrack flavor, and it looks like RotM2 is continuing in this direction.
I really don't want to jump on this RotM argument because it's been talked about before and I don't like writing essays, so I'll just say that... I kinda have to agree with Zap. :S His points are 100% valid, and while I don't believe what Gnome has done is all that horrible, the attraction to that map is that it uses Mindcrack builds, so they're going to be the focal point of peoples' experiences and thus their feedback.
I'm not anti-RotM. I'm just agreeing with someone else's frustration that it's contributing to mapmakers with original ideas not getting the attention they deserve, similarly to how Vechs' maps contribute to that cause. It's nothing you did on purpose, Gnome, but it is a point of frustration that we can express.
Not every update has to be about map makers, saying this, the attribute system although unfinished is amazing! I love the new launcher and it's ability to create separate profiles with entire folders to themselves, I also like being able to easily switch between any jars you chose.
Resource packs are amazing, just look at Jeoffrey's Chamber, oh and you can actually create new sounds and then play them with the new /playsound command.
Then there are the new blocks, having coal blocks is great for storage, hardened clay is obviously amazing.
I also really like what they have done mob-wise, spiders can spawn with random potion effects, zombies swarming you, villagers now make noises (that's just funny) and then there are horses, horses aren't going to be a big deal to most people but it's nice to know they're there.
Name tags being an item is also pretty cool.
If you can't tell, I'm pro 1.6...
Yeah, all those new features are cool, but I'm most bothered by how poor the functionality is. The launcher looks pretty bad, (I know Dinnerbone said he was going to fix this, but really, could it have hurt to polish it up before a major release like this?) sprinting is borked, (again, getting fixed) and a lot of people on Overcast are calling this the "anti-PvP update", including Mr. Halfstack. I'm getting more lag than on 1.5.2, both single and multiplayer, which seems to be a recurring theme after every update recently.
So yeah, not complaining, just saying that all the new features come with stuff being broken and things been woefully unpolished.
Yeah, all those new features are cool, but I'm most bothered by how poor the functionality is. The launcher looks pretty bad, (I know Dinnerbone said he was going to fix this, but really, could it have hurt to polish it up before a major release like this?) sprinting is borked, (again, getting fixed) and a lot of people on Overcast are calling this the "anti-PvP update", including Mr. Halfstack. I'm getting more lag than on 1.5.2, both single and multiplayer, which seems to be a recurring theme after every update recently.
So yeah, not complaining, just saying that all the new features come with stuff being broken and things been woefully unpolished.
Yeah the PA crew is right and its MUCh harder to play that server now
First point, Fang if you see this and you view it as bad, then feel free to remove it if you find it necessary but keep in mind that its intended to knock some sense into these people, not be unnecessarily mean.
All i see out of this whole Ruins of the Mindcrackers argument is a bunch of spoiled brats complaining because someone else made a map that did better than theirs. Look, first of all, if all you care about is how many downloads you get, then get out of this community because you're nothing but another Vechs. The point of a map maker is to create fun and entertaining content for the people that play their maps, whether that's ten people, or ten thousand.
Another point is THIS IS A HOBBY! I mean for crying out loud people, he said it himself that he makes the maps Mindcrack themed because its MORE FUN FOR HIM THAT WAY! If its his hobby, and HIS life, then he can DO WHAT HE WANTS!
The fact that he got popular let's plays and lots of fame is because he took the time to make it at least decent, and so the Mindcrackers happened to take notice. Think about how many "augh ma gawsh skydoesminecraft buddur mapp" exist on these forums, and only one or two of them get recognition from SkyDoesMinecraft. Its called he got lucky.
Going back to my previous point: All of you people who i see arguing over this have gotten plenty of recognition as a map maker. so why are you complaining? I'm hearing no complaints from the less popular map makers who don't have the amount of downloads that many of you do. They're content to make content that they enjoy making and their followers enjoy playing. And that's what you SHOULD be focused on as a map maker. Not on getting a ton of downloads, or people LPing your map, or getting famous in general. You should be focused on making content that is fun for your audience. And that's exactly what Gnome did when he made RotM 1 and 2.
My main point is this: We are a free community. People make the maps that they enjoy making. The ONLY REASON you are attacking RotM is because you think it doesn't deserve the popularity its gotten. Well let me drop some truth on you. NO ONE, not even Vechs almighty, can say who deserves downloads and who doesn't. You are not entitled to have this person change the way they map because you don't agree with it. Get over yourselves, and please for the love of all that is good and awesome about CTMs SHUT UP!
im sorry if this turned into a hate rant, but i needed to get this out. I'm tired of this thread being nothing but arguments. That's not what it was made for, that's not what we should be using it for.
*snip*
im sorry if this turned into a hate rant, but i needed to get this out. I'm tired of this thread being nothing but arguments. That's not what it was made for, that's not what we should be using it for.
It kinda was a hate rant, and I'm a bit sad you felt as strongly about things as you did. :/
This thread isn't "nothing but arguments". We have occasional discussions about controversial topics (read: arguments), but the majority of the time we're giving and receiving feedback. The "arguments" we do have generally end up with other people being more open to others' perspectives. I know that's happened to me on more than one occasion.
So yeah, like I said, I don't want to go essay-writing over this topic, but I will ask that you please not over-react to what's going on. None of us are "attacking" RotM, and for that matter, I don't see any of our arguments as overly-hostile, though that might be due to me avoiding most controversial topics recently. Telling people to stop arguing is like telling them to stop having opinions that differ from each other.
I really didn't want to start an argument about RotM just by writing a review. I actually tried to prevent it...
Can we just say "some people like the concept and some are against it" and leave it at that? Honestly, I kinda feel bad for Joel because this conversation pops up whenever someone mentions the map.
Coming soon: Ruins of the Monumentans lolnotreally
http://www.youtube.com/user/halfpixel274
Honestly I'm fine if you make a map using other peoples builds (if you have permission) but when you become more famous then every single one of us here despite the work and quality we put into our maps after you use pre made builds it just... it just urks me.
Congrats man, UHC was fun with you and De-tox, damn that last post thing scared me.
Your argument is completely invalid because ColdFusionGaming did an excellent job with Soaring No Longer 1 and 2 and no one complained. :/
@infaderps: I don't usually like pony avatars, but when i do, i always make sure to like the one that looks like The Joker
^ dis guy, he gots common sense. .3.
EDIT! Pretty much anything above level 40 is useless.
This argument is so childish
Let success be success some people get more popular than others hen a big name LPs them. Happens
Seems like I've also garnered myself a PAGE G'YET
I personally love 1.6.1
not all updates need to be for CTM players or mapmakers, even though they are trying to please us too
The game has so many mobs already, any more would just make the game lose the simplicity we all love it for.
Remember, most of Minecraft's players play survival, and this update makes it so much funner.
So, I can understand the "stolen work" argument. Intersection 1 of the first map lacks in the creativity department (except for the genius that was the lens as an intersection) and generally feels lazy. Each area is pretty much the same: An island with trees on it with a bedrock cloud above it and a copied-and-pasted house in the middle. It is very much what Zap is describing. But as the map goes on, it becomes something much more: caverns get larger and more creative, and the mindcrack builds seem more and more like an afterthought (IMO that's a good thing in this situation). It looks like it started out as a lazy uninspired project, but it gradually becomes a great CTM map with a slight mindcrack flavor, and it looks like RotM2 is continuing in this direction.
I really don't want to jump on this RotM argument because it's been talked about before and I don't like writing essays, so I'll just say that... I kinda have to agree with Zap. :S His points are 100% valid, and while I don't believe what Gnome has done is all that horrible, the attraction to that map is that it uses Mindcrack builds, so they're going to be the focal point of peoples' experiences and thus their feedback.
I'm not anti-RotM. I'm just agreeing with someone else's frustration that it's contributing to mapmakers with original ideas not getting the attention they deserve, similarly to how Vechs' maps contribute to that cause. It's nothing you did on purpose, Gnome, but it is a point of frustration that we can express.
No it isn't.
No it isn't.
So yeah, not complaining, just saying that all the new features come with stuff being broken and things been woefully unpolished.
Yeah the PA crew is right and its MUCh harder to play that server now
Ok, i think its time i said this.
First point, Fang if you see this and you view it as bad, then feel free to remove it if you find it necessary but keep in mind that its intended to knock some sense into these people, not be unnecessarily mean.
All i see out of this whole Ruins of the Mindcrackers argument is a bunch of spoiled brats complaining because someone else made a map that did better than theirs. Look, first of all, if all you care about is how many downloads you get, then get out of this community because you're nothing but another Vechs. The point of a map maker is to create fun and entertaining content for the people that play their maps, whether that's ten people, or ten thousand.
Another point is THIS IS A HOBBY! I mean for crying out loud people, he said it himself that he makes the maps Mindcrack themed because its MORE FUN FOR HIM THAT WAY! If its his hobby, and HIS life, then he can DO WHAT HE WANTS!
The fact that he got popular let's plays and lots of fame is because he took the time to make it at least decent, and so the Mindcrackers happened to take notice. Think about how many "augh ma gawsh skydoesminecraft buddur mapp" exist on these forums, and only one or two of them get recognition from SkyDoesMinecraft. Its called he got lucky.
Going back to my previous point: All of you people who i see arguing over this have gotten plenty of recognition as a map maker. so why are you complaining? I'm hearing no complaints from the less popular map makers who don't have the amount of downloads that many of you do. They're content to make content that they enjoy making and their followers enjoy playing. And that's what you SHOULD be focused on as a map maker. Not on getting a ton of downloads, or people LPing your map, or getting famous in general. You should be focused on making content that is fun for your audience. And that's exactly what Gnome did when he made RotM 1 and 2.
My main point is this: We are a free community. People make the maps that they enjoy making. The ONLY REASON you are attacking RotM is because you think it doesn't deserve the popularity its gotten. Well let me drop some truth on you. NO ONE, not even Vechs almighty, can say who deserves downloads and who doesn't. You are not entitled to have this person change the way they map because you don't agree with it. Get over yourselves, and please for the love of all that is good and awesome about CTMs SHUT UP!
im sorry if this turned into a hate rant, but i needed to get this out. I'm tired of this thread being nothing but arguments. That's not what it was made for, that's not what we should be using it for.
Your argument is invalid.
You see, you've just claimed that nobody cares in response to many posts in which people told their side of the argument. So, you see, WE CARE.
please refer to my more recent post, where i explain why this argument is the most stupid thing known to man.
This thread isn't "nothing but arguments". We have occasional discussions about controversial topics (read: arguments), but the majority of the time we're giving and receiving feedback. The "arguments" we do have generally end up with other people being more open to others' perspectives. I know that's happened to me on more than one occasion.
So yeah, like I said, I don't want to go essay-writing over this topic, but I will ask that you please not over-react to what's going on. None of us are "attacking" RotM, and for that matter, I don't see any of our arguments as overly-hostile, though that might be due to me avoiding most controversial topics recently. Telling people to stop arguing is like telling them to stop having opinions that differ from each other.