Independent person from the bald eagle clan checking in,
I don't have too much to say on this except that I get the general impression people see maps and mapmaking skill as having a linear path of evolution, when actually we should be going along different branches. I do think people are converging more than diverging. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my general impression.
I can see your point about gameplay features being widely used across a lot of maps. A good map will shine no matter what gameplay features were used. If it's something borrowed from another map and it was implemented well then I don't think there's anything wrong with that. However, I do think it is the responsibility of the map maker to give credit where it is due in some form (book, signs, etc).
I think enough map makers are imaginative enough where we won't end up with similar gameplay mechanics in most maps (or so I hope).
I actually have a similar concern but with the CTM map design. Area, area, intersection, area, area, intersection. It is a recipe that works and works well but we see it so many times I guess I am ready for something new. That's one of the reasons why I prefer a more open world style map. If map makers want to use that formula I don't have anything against it. I am just hoping to see some new and interesting ways to go about this.
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I post lots of #Srion dev updates and other MC stuff on twitter.@RedWingHamstorm
I can see your point about gameplay features being widely used across a lot of maps. A good map will shine no matter what gameplay features were used. If it's something borrowed from another map and it was implemented well then I don't think there's anything wrong with that. However, I do think it is the responsibility of the map maker to give credit where it is due in some form (book, signs, etc).
I think enough map makers are imaginative enough where we won't end up with similar gameplay mechanics in most maps (or so I hope).
I actually have a similar concern but with the CTM map design. Area, area, intersection, area, area, intersection. It is a recipe that works and works well but we see it so many times I guess I am ready for something new. That's one of the reasons why I prefer a more open world style map. If map makers want to use that formula I don't have anything against it. I am just hoping to see some new and interesting ways to go about this.
Re: "Area-Area-Intersection-Area-Etc.": Funnily enough, the only project (among the 3 I'm working on) that actually uses intersections is TR, and that's not even exclusively mine. Both my "sketch" map and my full-sized CTM use alternate styles of area progression. For example, my full map, Thanatos, is something I'm describing as a "semi-open-world subterranean" map: It's got connections between all sorts of areas at all sorts of different difficulty levels, and there's really no such thing as sequence breaking. You can get from the starting area to the final area by going through maybe 2 or 3 other areas; it's up to the player to make sure they're not going somewhere too difficult. The only thing I'm worried about is completionists who start on an area that's too hard for them, and refuse to go to an easier area. Maybe I'll just make it abundantly clear that abandoning work on an area midway through is not a bad thing; in fact, it's probably something you'll have to do at some point. (By the way, I feel like I need a better name for this type of map than "semi-open-world-subterranean". Suggestions?)
My "sketch" map, which I'm calling Pinnacle, is more linear; one area leads to another, which leads to another, similarly to The Corrupted Path (but much, much smaller and easier). I'm actually hoping that with Pinnacle, the fact that I'm steadily working my way down a massive pillar will stop me from going back up and making constant adjustments to the earlier areas and never finishing the map. I really, *really* want to finish a project some day. >.< Good news, though; I've got white wool through yellow wool pretty much done, and I think I've only been working on this for 3 or 4 weeks, max.
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Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
So I just setup (what is past for setup?) 1.7.10 server so if I ever get this weird feeling called "inspiration", I'll be able to do something with it.
Looks pretty nice, although I'm just a little concerned about how all the slabs which might be annoying for players to walk through. Would it be possible to get a lower angle shot, it seems like there's an arch below the area which might look quite good.
Here's some more screenshots.
And on the whole RC thing, I dont have too much to say but, I agree that gameplay could become less fun the more maps that come out, but the aesthetics, in my opinion, are looking better with all the maps that come out. I did get inspired by Ragecraft on some of my aesthetics, while I try to keep the gameplay all my own idea.
And on the whole RC thing, I dont have too much to say but, I agree that gameplay could become less fun the more maps that come out, but the aesthetics, in my opinion, are looking better with all the maps that come out. I did get inspired by Ragecraft on some of my aesthetics, while I try to keep the gameplay all my own idea.
Looks awesome! I'm excited to see more things from you
Interesting discussion re. Maps seemingly blending into one, each created by mapmakers in a conga line behind Heliceo... could be a cool mob idea now that I think about it... anyway:
I personally don't really play CTMs. I watch others play CTMs. Why? Because I like to see what players THINK. I want to see how a player will address an area. As a mapmaker, it is impossible to step back from a design perspective and fully focus upon gameplay. It is for me. So my upcoming 3rd map does not follow the same path as the conga line.
I've retraced my own steps and have decided to include as few 1.8 custom features as I can. I'm keeping it old school. Intricate levels. Few structures. You, and the environments in the map. I will include some custom mobs, but they won't be insane. And they'll serve a purpose.
Not that I have anything against anyone else. This is a hobby of mine which, seeing as it involves my imagination to a large extent, is my own adventure as much as it is for those who play my maps.
I do this too. I'm still trying to step back from myself and see what I think, what I enjoy, and then try to find out. While this is more difficult, it does give better results, since you know exactly what I find about stuff. What you say is usually far away from what you actually experience.
Doing this is really, really difficult though, since you really need to watch for you leaving the immersion and going to designer-only mode.
About the long ragecraft discussion *sigh so much chinese walls*. There's quite some stuff to say. Huge areas aren't bad, but I do feel like we're missing tons of (varied) content. We do see some... dungeons nowadays, but even these usually turn out to be big. Close quarter fighting isn't there usually. Sometimes a little bit, but I haven't seen it to often.
What I really miss is player vs environment, not player vs mobs. We seem to have set the amount of spawners equal to the difficulty. We ALWAYS have a proper path, never drop the player in an area that is just... hard to progress through. I've never seen any areas like (yes I use Vechs areas here because.... I don't know where else to find this type of area) Caves of Confusion, The Nest, Helix Cavern, Cavern of Sky (the big lava room in kaizo, with gravel and spiders? Dunno what the name was.). Maps, nowadays, are far more repetitive then they used to be. In the past, there used to be a lot of variation in gameplay between areas. Variation at base level. It wasn't just about attacking a cool-looking area filled with spawners. It was about navigating through hostile territory. That's what we've.... kinda lost, I think.
Let me get this right. Big =! Bad. Repetitive, usually is. Once you complete an area, the next area has to feel different. If you complete a giant cave filled with mobs, I wouldn't want to continue to the next one (I think I finally figured out why I usually quit RC-likes). You want a different area, with different challenges. It can be moving up a cliff, with just a few mobs, and the risk of fall damage being there. It can be a maze. Just something that doesn't feel exactly the same.
Oh, and, the larger you make your areas, the more varied gameplay you need to come up with, to basically fill the area. Smaller areas are usually more enjoyable, just because of that.
Also, there are technically 23 effects in the game, but you can do more. Just requires some thinking.
About the intersection discussion, I like intersections. They feel kinda like a level selection screen. You don't want to take this guidance away, it has become pretty much something most players will look for. You can vary a little bit though.
I can understand the whole designer mode thing. It also happens to me sometimes
I can see where you're going with saying we lost variation. What I think happened was, as mobs got more and more interesting and customizable, mapmakers generally thought they needed less to rely on the area to be what creates gameplay, as the mobs do it for them. In true games, it'll usually be that the mob or area will create the main gameplay, while the other helps polish it or help it even more. I haven't seen too many games in relation to most of you, but just from what I've seen I can say that's what it seems to be like. Problem is, it seems to be that we are, as Rubisk said, relying quite a lot on mobs and not enough on the area's itself. I didn't think of this prior to your post Rubisk, but it definetely is something.
As for what you said about a proper path: it's because we're also starting to lean to things like convenience over other things, with super convenient teleporter hubs, basically never a need to create a grinder whereas if you do make one it isn't as useful as it used to be (which is something I personally dislike), and very very clearly telling the player where to go and not fully just putting him somewhere and saying "you're here, now explore" (dunno if this is what you meant with that, but it's what I understood and agreed with). Basically, there's also a line where convenience goes too far IMHO, and we need to make sure to not cross it. An example concerning the teleporters in my map: I do have one of those convenient teleporter hubs with the added convenience of if you got to teleporter 12X you'd unlock teleporter 11X which would unlock teleporter 10X and so forth, but to actually get to the teleporters you gotta explore a bit. I don't just hand them out to you in between area's or in important places, if you want convenience, you gotta work for it a bit first.
Again, I can see what's your point with this. I pretty much addressed all this except for repetitiveness, so lemme address that: it's basically the same thing with how we started using mobs more and the general terrain less, it also made it be so because we needed to less rely on our area's for the gameplay, we less needed for them to have a different basic layout, thus making a lot of their basic layouts be similar to each other.
As for intersections: it might be a level selection screen, but there's those games and games that are fully linear or open world, without selection screens. Those games can still be equally enjoyable even though the player doesn't choose where he goes or entirely chooses where he goes only with things in the game to guide him. Basically, every style of map you make whether it's linear or open world or intersection based has it's ups and downs.
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From how this chat has been going, I think we have a war with China on our hands.
About the RC and varied dungeons, I agree with most of this stuff, but there is a bit of info that needs to be mentioned. A big part of CTMs is the exploration aspect. With big areas, there is a lot to explore, unless everything is the same with no structures, I don't see a problem with big areas. As for close-range combat, I think a lot of people have still used it in their areas, except not making it the theme of the whole area. Areas can be big and have close range combat.
The thing is, that people are trying to extend the gameplay aspect in each area, not the combat aspect. The combat aspect is still there obviously, and it's still very important, but, as Rubisk said, players like to see things that are different. I think that most players would rather do something they haven't done before, instead of running through a cave spamming torches and fighting mobs from spawners every 20 blocks
First off, I'd like to point out that this phenomenon is not unique to CtM maps; look at the increase in horror maps after some got featured on youtube, and indeed, is endemic to all entertainment types. Modern military shooters, autotuned pop songs, super hero films, all follow the same kind of trend of latching onto something new and popular and mimicking it.
Second, all maps are made with a finite selection of options, meaning that it is very easy to copy ideas inadvertently. Mobs can only be tweaked in so many ways, there's only about 200 blocks to build with, and there's only so many gimmicks one can do with command blocks. I know for my map I did my best to come up with unique area concepts based on real world locations, but it turns out that Spanish limestone cliffs made in minecraft look very much like the cliffs in Legendary
That said, somethings that have been mentioned such as custom items and large areas to explore, do simply make maps better. I suspect that if the early CtMs had the option of names, enchantments, and attributes then the designers would have used them. Key to all of those though is why we use them, since as many elements in a map should reinforce the core gameplay you're trying to go for. If the main drive for the map is Challenge, then using powerful items, hard mobs, and a linear-branching intersection style map with teleporters and pre-made grinders or loads of loot is a good thing, since it lets the players dive into the hard combat your map should provide. An Exploration based map though should have teleporters few and far between so the player gets to look around, large areas filled with interesting things to find, and items being interesting and rewarding instead of just powerful*. Other core elements that maps can try to satisfy are Aesthetics, although I feel this can sometimes be a trap as people focus on making the maps look good instead of play good, and Atmosphere, which is something I don't see as often because it's really hard to do without loads of command blocks
Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is that custom items, custom mobs, large areas, using all of those is not inherently bad. Using them without understanding why they should be used is.
*This bit about items is actually part of the next let's analyze video, so spoilers
First time i'm posting here so i'm sorry if i'm doing something wrong. I am a huge fan of CTMs, have played quite a few both alone and for my youtube channel. However from a while back this topic and therefore the whole community seems to be slowing down a bit. This is where I used to get new maps to play/record. However not only is one of the initial topics broken but also there seems to be no maps specially considering 1.8 has been out for a while now. So, is there a new place for one to find a new ctm map? Is this post/topic really dead?
I appreciate your help on this matter, i'm just looking to find a few ctms to play and enjoy myself.
The post/topic isn't dead, nor is the community; it's just that not a whole lot of maps have come out recently - or rather, the big maps we're all waiting on have yet to be released. So we sit around and talk about stuff like Great Text Walls of China. Now, "not a whole lot" doesn't mean "none". There are still a bunch of relatively recent maps that we can probably point you to...
(Now I think about it, though, the original post probably hasn't been updated in a long time. So maybe the post is dead, but the topic certainly isn't.)
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Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
Second, all maps are made with a finite selection of options, meaning that it is very easy to copy ideas inadvertently. Mobs can only be tweaked in so many ways, there's only about 200 blocks to build with, and there's only so many gimmicks one can do with command blocks. I know for my map I did my best to come up with unique area concepts based on real world locations, but it turns out that Spanish limestone cliffs made in minecraft look very much like the cliffs in Legendary
Really? Aestheticwise, maybe. But if you DO intend on using command blocks to their maximum power, there's more stuff you can do that that you can't do. Imo. You can do SO much with the 1.8 stuff. So, SO much.
First time i'm posting here so i'm sorry if i'm doing something wrong. I am a huge fan of CTMs, have played quite a few both alone and for my youtube channel. However from a while back this topic and therefore the whole community seems to be slowing down a bit. This is where I used to get new maps to play/record. However not only is one of the initial topics broken but also there seems to be no maps specially considering 1.8 has been out for a while now. So, is there a new place for one to find a new ctm map? Is this post/topic really dead?
I appreciate your help on this matter, i'm just looking to find a few ctms to play and enjoy myself.
People will post here to talk about maps, and sometimes if they release one, but you're probably just popping up at an unlucky time. I've started a map in 1.6, and it's still in progress. While others aren't quite that far behind yet, it typically will be at least a month after the update. Hell, we're still talking about how the 1.8 updates will affect things. (I know nothing about what was added)
Really? Aestheticwise, maybe. But if you DO intend on using command blocks to their maximum power, there's more stuff you can do that that you can't do. Imo. You can do SO much with the 1.8 stuff. So, SO much.
Let me rephrase that then to "there's only so many gimmicks one can do with command blocks unless you already know how to program and don't want to make the game lag horribly". The testfor, execute, and scoreboard commands do indeed allow you to do so much, but everything gets hugely more complicated when you add multiple players. As for lag, I'm sure you remember the heat discussion a few weeks ago. Yes it could work, but copying and rendering every block for it dropped the framerate by a non-trivial amount. (I also feel like gimmicks need to be used carefully to keep maps from feeling disjointed, but that's another post entirely)
Let me rephrase that then to "there's only so many gimmicks one can do with command blocks unless you already know how to program and don't want to make the game lag horribly". The testfor, execute, and scoreboard commands do indeed allow you to do so much, but everything gets hugely more complicated when you add multiple players. As for lag, I'm sure you remember the heat discussion a few weeks ago. Yes it could work, but copying and rendering every block for it dropped the framerate by a non-trivial amount. (I also feel like gimmicks need to be used carefully to keep maps from feeling disjointed, but that's another post entirely)
It's typically not that hard to expand a command-block system to work for multiple players. Worst-case scenario (i.e. you can't think of any other way to make it work), you assign each player a different scoreboard value when they start the map, and have entirely different command block systems for each of the players. It puts a hard limit on the number of players you can have, but as long as you keep the redstone out of render distance of the player (in the spawn chunks), it doesn't reduce framerates by that much.
I think there's a practically uncountable number of command-block "gimmicks" you can do, as long as you understand how to use command blocks properly. Heck, you can come up with all kinds of cool stuff to do just by watching SethBling (seriously man that guy is crazy good with command block stuff).
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Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
I agree with Kaladun, but only to an extent. (maybe I'm just rambling, I don't know.)
Yes the different combinations are not infinite, but they are very numerous, and coupled with terrain aesthetic and structures, I think that it is not to far a stretch to say that Gameplay could be.
Furthermore I don't believe that just because a certain type of mob has been used before, it doesn't guarantee a bad experience. I think that if used correctly, mobs that I am already aware of can still surprise me. This however opens the question of multiple creators with their numerous creations. Say hypothetically that every last mob combination has been achieved (F*cking Ragecraft ). Would we continue to create? If someone attempted to do so, they would open themselves up to a world of pain, as they copied a mob from "EnderDarkness with a new name. Would we just start a huge law suit? And destroy each other? Would that end map making for good?
While I don't think that this scenario will ever happen, it is possible that content seems dry or rough right now. But that's only because there is so much great stuff out their already. But say that I'm wrong. Say this should happen. How far do we need to go before we just start loosening up a little over the whole copyright bologna? And if it ever comes to it, will we be so tired of the dry crap that spews out of mapmakers that we all just shoot ourselves?
Understand the power of words, especially in map making. Calling something different can really pull off your "copy heist". (When I say it like that, I really sound evil... I don't care arrest me.) Like having a mob drop "ancient tablets" instead of Battle signs. You can shift a whole monster out of that one word. Maybe its a zombie pigman, but hes also a priest in a huge lava temple. This is the beauty of Minecraft, being able to take anything and make it your own time and time again.
I don't think we are anywhere near dire straights in this respect. I think everybody just has a serious case of builders block. Nothing more.
I don't have too much to say on this except that I get the general impression people see maps and mapmaking skill as having a linear path of evolution, when actually we should be going along different branches. I do think people are converging more than diverging. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my general impression.
you think I beat that? lol.
Then again, I only have a mini-map. I'll pretend that that makes me better than everybody else now.
My mini-CTM map! It's a fun map, so play it!
I can see your point about gameplay features being widely used across a lot of maps. A good map will shine no matter what gameplay features were used. If it's something borrowed from another map and it was implemented well then I don't think there's anything wrong with that. However, I do think it is the responsibility of the map maker to give credit where it is due in some form (book, signs, etc).
I think enough map makers are imaginative enough where we won't end up with similar gameplay mechanics in most maps (or so I hope).
I actually have a similar concern but with the CTM map design. Area, area, intersection, area, area, intersection. It is a recipe that works and works well but we see it so many times I guess I am ready for something new. That's one of the reasons why I prefer a more open world style map. If map makers want to use that formula I don't have anything against it. I am just hoping to see some new and interesting ways to go about this.
I post lots of #Srion dev updates and other MC stuff on twitter. @RedWingHamstorm
Re: "Area-Area-Intersection-Area-Etc.": Funnily enough, the only project (among the 3 I'm working on) that actually uses intersections is TR, and that's not even exclusively mine. Both my "sketch" map and my full-sized CTM use alternate styles of area progression. For example, my full map, Thanatos, is something I'm describing as a "semi-open-world subterranean" map: It's got connections between all sorts of areas at all sorts of different difficulty levels, and there's really no such thing as sequence breaking. You can get from the starting area to the final area by going through maybe 2 or 3 other areas; it's up to the player to make sure they're not going somewhere too difficult. The only thing I'm worried about is completionists who start on an area that's too hard for them, and refuse to go to an easier area. Maybe I'll just make it abundantly clear that abandoning work on an area midway through is not a bad thing; in fact, it's probably something you'll have to do at some point. (By the way, I feel like I need a better name for this type of map than "semi-open-world-subterranean". Suggestions?)
My "sketch" map, which I'm calling Pinnacle, is more linear; one area leads to another, which leads to another, similarly to The Corrupted Path (but much, much smaller and easier). I'm actually hoping that with Pinnacle, the fact that I'm steadily working my way down a massive pillar will stop me from going back up and making constant adjustments to the earlier areas and never finishing the map. I really, *really* want to finish a project some day. >.< Good news, though; I've got white wool through yellow wool pretty much done, and I think I've only been working on this for 3 or 4 weeks, max.
I'm calling my map a pseudo open world map. Your map would probably just be a cave themed pseudo open world map. No need for a super fancy name mate.
Here's some more screenshots.
Looks awesome! I'm excited to see more things from you
I do this too. I'm still trying to step back from myself and see what I think, what I enjoy, and then try to find out. While this is more difficult, it does give better results, since you know exactly what I find about stuff. What you say is usually far away from what you actually experience.
Doing this is really, really difficult though, since you really need to watch for you leaving the immersion and going to designer-only mode.
About the long ragecraft discussion *sigh so much chinese walls*. There's quite some stuff to say. Huge areas aren't bad, but I do feel like we're missing tons of (varied) content. We do see some... dungeons nowadays, but even these usually turn out to be big. Close quarter fighting isn't there usually. Sometimes a little bit, but I haven't seen it to often.
What I really miss is player vs environment, not player vs mobs. We seem to have set the amount of spawners equal to the difficulty. We ALWAYS have a proper path, never drop the player in an area that is just... hard to progress through. I've never seen any areas like (yes I use Vechs areas here because.... I don't know where else to find this type of area) Caves of Confusion, The Nest, Helix Cavern, Cavern of Sky (the big lava room in kaizo, with gravel and spiders? Dunno what the name was.). Maps, nowadays, are far more repetitive then they used to be. In the past, there used to be a lot of variation in gameplay between areas. Variation at base level. It wasn't just about attacking a cool-looking area filled with spawners. It was about navigating through hostile territory. That's what we've.... kinda lost, I think.
Let me get this right. Big =! Bad. Repetitive, usually is. Once you complete an area, the next area has to feel different. If you complete a giant cave filled with mobs, I wouldn't want to continue to the next one (I think I finally figured out why I usually quit RC-likes). You want a different area, with different challenges. It can be moving up a cliff, with just a few mobs, and the risk of fall damage being there. It can be a maze. Just something that doesn't feel exactly the same.
Oh, and, the larger you make your areas, the more varied gameplay you need to come up with, to basically fill the area. Smaller areas are usually more enjoyable, just because of that.
Also, there are technically 23 effects in the game, but you can do more. Just requires some thinking.
About the intersection discussion, I like intersections. They feel kinda like a level selection screen. You don't want to take this guidance away, it has become pretty much something most players will look for. You can vary a little bit though.
Nice! I like the looks of it!
Also, after you mentioned RC, the small tower pedestal thingy sure looks like something from RC
I can understand the whole designer mode thing. It also happens to me sometimes
I can see where you're going with saying we lost variation. What I think happened was, as mobs got more and more interesting and customizable, mapmakers generally thought they needed less to rely on the area to be what creates gameplay, as the mobs do it for them. In true games, it'll usually be that the mob or area will create the main gameplay, while the other helps polish it or help it even more. I haven't seen too many games in relation to most of you, but just from what I've seen I can say that's what it seems to be like. Problem is, it seems to be that we are, as Rubisk said, relying quite a lot on mobs and not enough on the area's itself. I didn't think of this prior to your post Rubisk, but it definetely is something.
As for what you said about a proper path: it's because we're also starting to lean to things like convenience over other things, with super convenient teleporter hubs, basically never a need to create a grinder whereas if you do make one it isn't as useful as it used to be (which is something I personally dislike), and very very clearly telling the player where to go and not fully just putting him somewhere and saying "you're here, now explore" (dunno if this is what you meant with that, but it's what I understood and agreed with). Basically, there's also a line where convenience goes too far IMHO, and we need to make sure to not cross it. An example concerning the teleporters in my map: I do have one of those convenient teleporter hubs with the added convenience of if you got to teleporter 12X you'd unlock teleporter 11X which would unlock teleporter 10X and so forth, but to actually get to the teleporters you gotta explore a bit. I don't just hand them out to you in between area's or in important places, if you want convenience, you gotta work for it a bit first.
Again, I can see what's your point with this. I pretty much addressed all this except for repetitiveness, so lemme address that: it's basically the same thing with how we started using mobs more and the general terrain less, it also made it be so because we needed to less rely on our area's for the gameplay, we less needed for them to have a different basic layout, thus making a lot of their basic layouts be similar to each other.
As for intersections: it might be a level selection screen, but there's those games and games that are fully linear or open world, without selection screens. Those games can still be equally enjoyable even though the player doesn't choose where he goes or entirely chooses where he goes only with things in the game to guide him. Basically, every style of map you make whether it's linear or open world or intersection based has it's ups and downs.
Dammit I'm renting too many walls lately.
Features some nice extra options, the varied fill and replace brush, and some bugfixes
About the RC and varied dungeons, I agree with most of this stuff, but there is a bit of info that needs to be mentioned. A big part of CTMs is the exploration aspect. With big areas, there is a lot to explore, unless everything is the same with no structures, I don't see a problem with big areas. As for close-range combat, I think a lot of people have still used it in their areas, except not making it the theme of the whole area. Areas can be big and have close range combat.
The thing is, that people are trying to extend the gameplay aspect in each area, not the combat aspect. The combat aspect is still there obviously, and it's still very important, but, as Rubisk said, players like to see things that are different. I think that most players would rather do something they haven't done before, instead of running through a cave spamming torches and fighting mobs from spawners every 20 blocks
I have a mini-wall of china
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Second, all maps are made with a finite selection of options, meaning that it is very easy to copy ideas inadvertently. Mobs can only be tweaked in so many ways, there's only about 200 blocks to build with, and there's only so many gimmicks one can do with command blocks. I know for my map I did my best to come up with unique area concepts based on real world locations, but it turns out that Spanish limestone cliffs made in minecraft look very much like the cliffs in Legendary
That said, somethings that have been mentioned such as custom items and large areas to explore, do simply make maps better. I suspect that if the early CtMs had the option of names, enchantments, and attributes then the designers would have used them. Key to all of those though is why we use them, since as many elements in a map should reinforce the core gameplay you're trying to go for. If the main drive for the map is Challenge, then using powerful items, hard mobs, and a linear-branching intersection style map with teleporters and pre-made grinders or loads of loot is a good thing, since it lets the players dive into the hard combat your map should provide. An Exploration based map though should have teleporters few and far between so the player gets to look around, large areas filled with interesting things to find, and items being interesting and rewarding instead of just powerful*. Other core elements that maps can try to satisfy are Aesthetics, although I feel this can sometimes be a trap as people focus on making the maps look good instead of play good, and Atmosphere, which is something I don't see as often because it's really hard to do without loads of command blocks
Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is that custom items, custom mobs, large areas, using all of those is not inherently bad. Using them without understanding why they should be used is.
*This bit about items is actually part of the next let's analyze video, so spoilers
The post/topic isn't dead, nor is the community; it's just that not a whole lot of maps have come out recently - or rather, the big maps we're all waiting on have yet to be released. So we sit around and talk about stuff like Great Text Walls of China. Now, "not a whole lot" doesn't mean "none". There are still a bunch of relatively recent maps that we can probably point you to...
(Now I think about it, though, the original post probably hasn't been updated in a long time. So maybe the post is dead, but the topic certainly isn't.)
Really? Aestheticwise, maybe. But if you DO intend on using command blocks to their maximum power, there's more stuff you can do that that you can't do. Imo. You can do SO much with the 1.8 stuff. So, SO much.
People will post here to talk about maps, and sometimes if they release one, but you're probably just popping up at an unlucky time. I've started a map in 1.6, and it's still in progress. While others aren't quite that far behind yet, it typically will be at least a month after the update. Hell, we're still talking about how the 1.8 updates will affect things. (I know nothing about what was added)
My mini-CTM map! It's a fun map, so play it!
Let me rephrase that then to "there's only so many gimmicks one can do with command blocks unless you already know how to program and don't want to make the game lag horribly". The testfor, execute, and scoreboard commands do indeed allow you to do so much, but everything gets hugely more complicated when you add multiple players. As for lag, I'm sure you remember the heat discussion a few weeks ago. Yes it could work, but copying and rendering every block for it dropped the framerate by a non-trivial amount. (I also feel like gimmicks need to be used carefully to keep maps from feeling disjointed, but that's another post entirely)
It's typically not that hard to expand a command-block system to work for multiple players. Worst-case scenario (i.e. you can't think of any other way to make it work), you assign each player a different scoreboard value when they start the map, and have entirely different command block systems for each of the players. It puts a hard limit on the number of players you can have, but as long as you keep the redstone out of render distance of the player (in the spawn chunks), it doesn't reduce framerates by that much.
I think there's a practically uncountable number of command-block "gimmicks" you can do, as long as you understand how to use command blocks properly. Heck, you can come up with all kinds of cool stuff to do just by watching SethBling (seriously man that guy is crazy good with command block stuff).
Yes the different combinations are not infinite, but they are very numerous, and coupled with terrain aesthetic and structures, I think that it is not to far a stretch to say that Gameplay could be.
Furthermore I don't believe that just because a certain type of mob has been used before, it doesn't guarantee a bad experience. I think that if used correctly, mobs that I am already aware of can still surprise me. This however opens the question of multiple creators with their numerous creations. Say hypothetically that every last mob combination has been achieved (F*cking Ragecraft ). Would we continue to create? If someone attempted to do so, they would open themselves up to a world of pain, as they copied a mob from "EnderDarkness with a new name. Would we just start a huge law suit? And destroy each other? Would that end map making for good?
While I don't think that this scenario will ever happen, it is possible that content seems dry or rough right now. But that's only because there is so much great stuff out their already. But say that I'm wrong. Say this should happen. How far do we need to go before we just start loosening up a little over the whole copyright bologna? And if it ever comes to it, will we be so tired of the dry crap that spews out of mapmakers that we all just shoot ourselves?
Understand the power of words, especially in map making. Calling something different can really pull off your "copy heist". (When I say it like that, I really sound evil... I don't care arrest me.) Like having a mob drop "ancient tablets" instead of Battle signs. You can shift a whole monster out of that one word. Maybe its a zombie pigman, but hes also a priest in a huge lava temple. This is the beauty of Minecraft, being able to take anything and make it your own time and time again.
I don't think we are anywhere near dire straights in this respect. I think everybody just has a serious case of builders block. Nothing more.