Problem is, you'd actually have to have a higher level of that, and it'd have to last for at least 27 ticks (otherwise, it won't work all the time), so you'd have all of those annoying effects at a higher level for a little bit.
Community Question: What do you think makes a great custom mob good compared to a lackluster custom mob?
I'd say that if you just slap armor or powerful weapons on a mob (unless it's a sword on a skeleton), then it's lackluster. Mobs need to be unique, fair to the player (I'm looking at you, everything in Inferno Mines), and fit the theme of whatever area they're in. Good custom mobs should intrigue the player when they're first seen and/or offer unique gameplay, like the splash potion mobs we've been talking about.
Even then, though, I think lackluster custom mobs are still a nice change of pace from the vanilla mobs, so I don't really mind them. It's like pizza: When it's good, it's really good, and when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Unless it's unbalanced, in which case that would be like burning the pizza, and... um... Pizza...
(Sorry, I'm having pizza for dinner in a few minutes and I'm pretty hungry.)
Community Question: What do you think makes a great custom mob good compared to a lackluster custom mob?
Uniqueness, either in looks or gameplay, is what I feel makes a great custom mob. Even if it's as simple as popping some invisibility and letting the armor create the shape of the mob, or adding a potion effect that makes it more difficult to fight. For example, I've got a few mobs in the area I'm working on right now who have a base health of 30-40 (depending on the variant), but spawn with 15 health and have Regen II on them for 15 seconds. If the player is near them when they spawn, they have an easier job of killing that mob than if they had run away right when the mob spawned. I'll have to think up a clever way to show (or tell) the player about this behavior, but it's just little things like that which make custom mobs more interesting.
One other thing that I think makes a good custom mob is having mobs around it that compliment it. An armored wither skellie by itself is fine, but an armored wither skellie surrounded by an army of weaker skellies is interesting. If you can get two or even three custom mobs that compliment each other, that really adds a lot of depth to the gameplay.
Community Question: What do you think makes a great custom mob good compared to a lackluster custom mob?
A great custom mob is one that challenges your abilities while still being fair to the player(e.g. alone in a room, having some sort of weakness/debuff, or having an effect on them). A lackluster one is(once again with the mocking IM....)something like the zistonians. They are a great concept but with the pigmans aggro distance, strength, and knockback on their signs makes them way too OP for the player to take on, especially on ledges
I'd say that if you just slap armor or powerful weapons on a mob (unless it's a sword on a skeleton), then it's lackluster. Mobs need to be unique, fair to the player (I'm looking at you, everything in Inferno Mines), and fit the theme of whatever area they're in. Good custom mobs should intrigue the player when they're first seen and/or offer unique gameplay, like the splash potion mobs we've been talking about.
Even then, though, I think lackluster custom mobs are still a nice change of pace from the vanilla mobs, so I don't really mind them. It's like pizza: When it's good, it's really good, and when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Unless it's unbalanced, in which case that would be like burning the pizza, and... um... Pizza...
(Sorry, I'm having pizza for dinner in a few minutes and I'm pretty hungry.)
I don't get what is with the hating on IM it was mostly good the only areas I did not like were Lush ruins and Eternal Battle and even they were not bad. My favorite custom enemies in that map was the Invisible cave spiders and the flame venom's they were so fun. Though The Thorn Guards were bad Thorns enemies suck in 90% of possible areas. unless you have an area where invisibility is intended.
A great custom mob is one that challenges your abilities while still being fair to the player(e.g. alone in a room, having some sort of weakness/debuff, or having an effect on them). A lackluster one is(once again with the mocking IM....)something like the zistonians. They are a great concept but with the pigmans aggro distance, strength, and knockback on their signs makes them way too OP for the player to take on, especially on ledges
I would agree with this mostly the Zeisteu's have their bad A.I's of pig men but it is a lot more fun to fight mobs head on instead of trying to abuse their A.I's. But they are no where near as bad as the thorn guards. The zeistikins can be beaten by just standing in front of a pit and shooting one. While the Thorn Guards are not even hard they are just so annoying.
I'm a lazy bum so I won't write up a full review, but I'd still like to discuss this map.
First, the negatives:
In my opinion, a few of the later ares fell short. The wool with 9 creeper spawners and no other content felt noobish and uninteresting, the iron ore at the bottom of the lake was a pain to mine and the green wool was really underwhelming compared to how grand the scale of the rest of the map was.
The positives:
The aesthetics (aside from the last area) were amazing. The map was short enough that the build style and amount of green colors still felt fresh by the end. The loot was interesting and immersive. The lore, although ambiguous, was still extremely well done.
The nitpicky little things:
The yellow and lime wools both felt like they needed a bit more content, the Necrotic Iron Sword was a bit OP, and a little bit of erosion would have helped.
Overall, still an awesome map, but there were definitely some problems I noticed. What do you all think?
There ain't much left of the world these days. The gods have forsaken us, there's no denying that. But still you press on. For what? A chance to sift through the ashes one last time? The hope to one day be called a hero? Whatever your reason, you've got a lot of work to do. The corruption won't leave without a fight, so you better get started.
I don't get what is with the hating on IM [...] Oh lord. I guess I'm going to explain my reasoning in this for all of us to believe that it wasn't what it could have been. Now I may have some facts wrong. You can call me out on those, because I have not played past the white wool due to hardware limitations and issues.
We all have our reasons.
We all have our opinions.
Some may critique my opinions, but what does that matter? This is most of the time how we express our opinions on this newer map recently.
You can go ahead and disregard my opinions as stupid and hating on Vechs as well, but I am trying to write this in as calm as a state as possible. Others may react violently on this kind of message. And that's fine. We admins will have to warn them, and there may be some shuffling through messages and removal of messages. What I'm trying to do is get my reasoning out, without being all crazy and following you up a wall (That was a terrible image, but you should get the point).
Many of us in the CTM genre like great gameplay AND great aesthetics. And for some of us, we believe that Inferno Mines fell short on those regards. While any noob to the CTM genre who has never seen anything outside of vanilla Minecraft might regard this as "stunning and amazing", us CTMers who have seen more than a couple maps in their lifetime (I've seen a couple in my lifetime, I'll admit to it) know that this fell short in many areas. I may not have played it completely through due to hardware limitations (White Wool only), but what I have seen from Lets-Plays and Developer Commentaries is more than enough to state my opinion in a thorough manner.
Just like any Vechs map, there really is no erosion. Vechs has kept true to his classic "USE ALL THE SPHERES!" kind of ways, using just sphere brushes from MCEdit to carve out his caverns. Now, to anyone new to the CTM genre, not knowing about the boundless list of maps outside of Vechs' maps will never think that it looks bad. But when others, who have made a map or two in their time, or are, making one right now, will know that if you include only MCEdit brushes in your map, you will be frowned upon HARD. We just let Vechs do it because it's Vechs, and he prefers gameplay over aesthetics. But that isn't a reason to just disregard aesthetics like it’s not important. Because it is. Both gameplay and aesthetics mingle together in order to make the great experience we all know and like. What we don't like about Vechs' Inferno Mines in terms of aesthetics not only applies to that he used the sphere brush so commonly, but he used the same art direction the entire time. Ever notice how all the way through the map, the common theme is sandstone (And, again. My opinion, the icky variant) and lava. Yes, he may use some sand and gravel. Or he might use some stone and some glowstone and some ore. Or he might use some glass and stonebrick. But all the way throughout the entire map, there is lava and sandstone in some way, shape or form. Of course, you might mention that he eases off of the sandstone by the time you reach the Vexian Gallery, which he then switches to Quartz and Lava. But there's still lava. By about I3, many of us are sore from looking at sandstone and lava. It needs to look better. But there seems to be no sign of improvement. Maps that suffer from this sort of marauding of sandstone and lava throughout the entire map, us CTMers like to label it as the Inferno Mines Syndrome. But enough bantering on about aesthetics. We need to talk about gameplay, which is a topic on this map that many of us thought fell way below its mark.
The gameplay in Inferno Mines was obviously emphasized when this map was being made. Vechs obviously wanted to make a map that innovated with plenty of new gameplay mechanics that were sure to surprise and stimulate the player. With a year in development, many of us believed he would set the bar high and leave us all wowed. But unfortunately that isn’t what happened. The gameplay fell way below the mark of what we all thought would have been the greatest map we ever played gameplay-wise, looking past the borked aesthetics. But when you see how bad the execution of each of the gameplay mechanics and areas he made, it starts to feel bad. Really bad. Let’s start with custom mobs. From any mapmaker’s perspective, I’m going to describe them as mobs that differentiate from vanilla mobs, because they have special perks, or they drop additional items. I am splitting “normal” custom mobs from stacked mobs, and fleecy mobs, just for the fact that they are two different things.
There are some custom mobs that were on par for what they were made for:
FlameVenom Spider - An early game mob with an interesting gameplay mechanic and generous loot. The FlameVenom Spider wields a Stone Sword with Sharpness and Fire Aspect as its weapon of choice, meaning that a normal spider will now inflict fire damage. They are also equipped with Fire Resistance so that the spider can easily be identified by their flaming bodies. The loot they drop is very convenient early on. Stone swords with Sharpness and Fire Aspect, and impossible Unbreaking, make a nice early-game weapon that you can use and manipulate to your heart’s content (FlameVenom Fangs - Chipped and Perfect). Some leather for early armor and early recovery. Can also be used in a multi-player environment for extra armor, not saying you won’t have a crapton of it (FlameVenom Chitin). Some Fire Protection 2 books that is great for applying to armor, and combining to make stronger versions of it (FlameVenom Scales). And some extra XP due to it being a tougher and stronger mob, adding RPG-like progression to the way the player fights mobs (FlameVenom XP).
The Invisible Cave Spider - It is very simply, a Cave Spider that is invisible. But, due to the way Minecraft mechanics works, the eyes still render, causing the idea that you have to watch for the eyes…
But then there are the ones that crashed and burned…
Vechs’ Custom Witch - This thing is considered by many to be VERY overpowered. Not only does this thing drop so many things that clog your inventory it’s stupid, it’s also impossible to kill at melee range in an open space. Pretty much the only possible way to take these things out is by bow, in which Flame doesn’t work, and/or box you in in order to attack the feets of the witch. And not only that, they are enhanced with increased HP, Speed, Fire Resistance (?), and Jump Boost. So, all in all, an overpowered tank with the means to destroy you.
The Thornguard - The Thornguard is another terribly executed mob by Vechs. This thing is branded with a Cactus helmet with Thorns 10/15. That’s right. Attack it, and you sustain MASSIVE damage. But not only that, but it wields a bow. A [REDACTED] BOW. Enchanted with Power, Punch (?), Flame, and Unbreaking. So you are faced with a mob you cannot melee, so your only chance of taking it out is by shooting it, with a bow, and continually getting Thorns damage. While it shoots at you with its OP bow.
The Boomer - This thing is an invisible charged creeper with speed. That’s all it is. It is just a gigantic bringer of raging death.
So noticing how much he destroyed the concept of custom mobs, let’s continue on to talk about stacked mobs. He could have done some pretty cool things with stacked mobs. He could have made creative designs and gameplay standards with these things. But the stacks he made felt rushed, and overpowered, and to many of us, not really balanced. Many of us criticise him on this, but he has disappeared from the forums, so we can’t really tell him out on it on the forums any more Now on to the last section on the topic of custom mobs, the fleecy mobs. This is a topic that is very controversial to many of us here. The fleecy mob idea started in Black Desert 2, a now long-gone trashed map, which, quite frankly, was terrible in its execution. The entire idea was that you gain all your resources through custom mobs. But, with bland environments, and tough balancing issues, there was no hope at the time for the map. But he decided to bring the concept back, so that he could implement the idea into Inferno Mines. The fleecy mobs were a mess, and they could easily be exploited by the player by dropping them into a hole, and hitting the feets. Many veteran players here discuss that this is not the way it should be executed.
So now that we are off the topic of mobs, let’s talk about botched gameplay in areas. Of course, we can say that the gameplay is spot-on in the beginning-I1, although there are some issues with OP mobs in Lower Mines and Everforge. But then we get to I2. And here’s where things go bye-bye in terms of spot-on gameplay. In Hane’s Disgrace, things could be executed better, but it’s still alright. Mellow Cavern is not something that is really “mellow” anymore, due to him putting an abomination of a stacked mob in there. And then there’s Lush Ruins. Oh lord. Lush Ruins. The area everyone loves to hate. It was a complete spawner spam over the limit by about 5 000 000 miles. You kind of start to see the point when I point that kind of thing out. Then there is I3. First, there is Salire Castle. That kind of sucks in gameplay, because the boss mob can EASILY be boxed in, and killed. The jump boost mechanic was interesting, but in those kinds of conditions, they were a bit annoying and not really used well. Then there is Dumb Blast Zisteau Cavern. The concept behind it is genius, but all in all, the concept is poorly executed, as to not cope with the AI of pigmen, and the area in general looks… bleh. And then there is Wilhelm Cliffs. The recent updates make it look good, but the gameplay could have been made better. He could have included more custom mobs, and make it more of a challenge than it really is. You find the Victory Monument and then head to the Outer Inferno, where lies Camp Ember/Ember Castle (I really don’t know remember what it is ). That area just looks BAD. He said that that area accommodates for gameplay more than aesthetics, but when it looks bad, it isn’t that good. I haven’t seen a lot on the gameplay of the area, but what I have heard, it is not a fun thing to play. So we head towards the Vexian Gallery. There is the Blackened Archives (Don’t have much to explain on it, haven’t seen gameplay of it), Zistonian Battlecry, and Eternal Battle. Zistonian Battlecry is just a very badly designed area because it can easily be enderpearled, and running through is honestly plain silly. Eternal Battle is just too much. It is terrible. You have so much crap sieging you that there is no way to get to that fleecy mob on the other side. I really don’t know much, because, again, trying to go off of what people have mentioned in the past. People can back me up on this. So, to end this statement off, the map is good in the beginning, and in I1, but it sucks from I2 to the end of the map.
And the last thing to talk about is the random loot system. He uses mainly the random loot system to give his loot to the player. But this can become extremely flawed, as the player obtains so many pieces of diamond armor that they are running around in full diamond, hacking through the map with no care in the world. And there is so much stuff, that there is really no way to keep it all. Just the brute amount of loot in Lush Ruins was so much for Zisteau, which he then gave up on it. It is completely pointless to have a loot system like that.
So hopefully, in this essay, I have explained to you why the CTM Community does not like Inferno Mines. Again, I’m not hating on Inferno Mines, but showing its flaws and where it fell short. Hopefully this gives you a clear-cut answer, backed up by some better facts from the CTM Community on this map that clearly fell short in Super Hostile standards in our eyes.
Community Question: What do you think makes a great custom mob good compared to a lackluster custom mob?
A great custom mob would be one that gives a different gameplay aspect than the normal Hit-And-Kill or just simply using a bow to kill it. One that would make you think before you hit
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every bloody CTM map series boasts that it's bigger, longer, and harder than other CTM series. It's almost as if it's a **** measuring contest. (bigger, longer, harder...)
Every bloody CTM map series boasts that it's bigger, longer, and harder than other CTM series. It's almost as if it's a **** measuring contest. (bigger, longer, harder...)
@ the vechs discussion, not going to join atm, don't want to much hating.
At the custom mob thingy:
Try make them fit in the area. No ghasts in an icy area, or zombies with an ice block head in a area of lava. Try make them look like they "match" the area. Give them special skills, and weaken other factors. A one-hit kill skeleton with punch 5 is very interesting. A skeleton with punch V, power III and Flame I is just annoying. Every pro needs a con, and make it balanced. Fiddle (words?) around with stats like player detection radius, speed, attackstrength and armour. Try to stack mobs and combine their abilities to create unique gameplay.
One other tip, in later areas, give them regeneration. That way, turning everything on fire won't work all the time, you have to take the mobs out in 30s, or health resets. Makes some interesting gameplay!
Another thing that pops up in my mind is making use of spawnpotentials. Making a skeleton with a weight of 10 weak, and one with weight 1 very strong, makes some "battlefield generals" that can make it even more interesting!
Try make your mobs fit with the look of the area, the tier of loot you find in chests, the other mobs surrounding them and make sure to balance them.
I hate mobs that have a dropchance of like 50% with armour. Kill ten of them and your inventory is full. A 10% chance is high enough to be able to farm them slowly. Don't go to crazy!
Them dropping food, meh... Potions, weapons and unique items are more interesting i think... If the player has access to cows, food won't be a problem
Oh lord. I guess I'm going to explain my reasoning in this for all of us to believe that it wasn't what it could have been. Now I may have some facts wrong. You can call me out on those, because I have not played past the white wool due to hardware limitations and issues.
I'm not spoilering this long post. This is because you need to read it. My very long essay. More than 2000 words. Enjoy.
We all have our reasons.
We all have our opinions.
Some may critique my opinions, but what does that matter? This is most of the time how we express our opinions on this newer map recently.
You can go ahead and disregard my opinions as stupid and hating on Vechs as well, but I am trying to write this in as calm as a state as possible. Others may react violently on this kind of message. And that's fine. We admins will have to warn them, and there may be some shuffling through messages and removal of messages. What I'm trying to do is get my reasoning out, without being all crazy and following you up a wall (That was a terrible image, but you should get the point).
Many of us in the CTM genre like great gameplay AND great aesthetics. And for some of us, we believe that Inferno Mines fell short on those regards. While any noob to the CTM genre who has never seen anything outside of vanilla Minecraft might regard this as "stunning and amazing", us CTMers who have seen more than a couple maps in their lifetime (I've seen a couple in my lifetime, I'll admit to it) know that this fell short in many areas. I may not have played it completely through due to hardware limitations (White Wool only), but what I have seen from Lets-Plays and Developer Commentaries is more than enough to state my opinion in a thorough manner.
Just like any Vechs map, there really is no erosion. Vechs has kept true to his classic "USE ALL THE SPHERES!" kind of ways, using just sphere brushes from MCEdit to carve out his caverns. Now, to anyone new to the CTM genre, not knowing about the boundless list of maps outside of Vechs' maps will never think that it looks bad. But when others, who have made a map or two in their time, or are, making one right now, will know that if you include only MCEdit brushes in your map, you will be frowned upon HARD. We just let Vechs do it because it's Vechs, and he prefers gameplay over aesthetics. But that isn't a reason to just disregard aesthetics like it’s not important. Because it is. Both gameplay and aesthetics mingle together in order to make the great experience we all know and like. What we don't like about Vechs' Inferno Mines in terms of aesthetics not only applies to that he used the sphere brush so commonly, but he used the same art direction the entire time. Ever notice how all the way through the map, the common theme is sandstone (And, again. My opinion, the icky variant) and lava. Yes, he may use some sand and gravel. Or he might use some stone and some glowstone and some ore. Or he might use some glass and stonebrick. But all the way throughout the entire map, there is lava and sandstone in some way, shape or form. Of course, you might mention that he eases off of the sandstone by the time you reach the Vexian Gallery, which he then switches to Quartz and Lava. But there's still lava. By about I3, many of us are sore from looking at sandstone and lava. It needs to look better. But there seems to be no sign of improvement. Maps that suffer from this sort of marauding of sandstone and lava throughout the entire map, us CTMers like to label it as the Inferno Mines Syndrome. But enough bantering on about aesthetics. We need to talk about gameplay, which is a topic on this map that many of us thought fell way below its mark.
The gameplay in Inferno Mines was obviously emphasized when this map was being made. Vechs obviously wanted to make a map that innovated with plenty of new gameplay mechanics that were sure to surprise and stimulate the player. With a year in development, many of us believed he would set the bar high and leave us all wowed. But unfortunately that isn’t what happened. The gameplay fell way below the mark of what we all thought would have been the greatest map we ever played gameplay-wise, looking past the borked aesthetics. But when you see how bad the execution of each of the gameplay mechanics and areas he made, it starts to feel bad. Really bad. Let’s start with custom mobs. From any mapmaker’s perspective, I’m going to describe them as mobs that differentiate from vanilla mobs, because they have special perks, or they drop additional items. I am splitting “normal” custom mobs from stacked mobs, and fleecy mobs, just for the fact that they are two different things.
There are some custom mobs that were on par for what they were made for:
FlameVenom Spider - An early game mob with an interesting gameplay mechanic and generous loot. The FlameVenom Spider wields a Stone Sword with Sharpness and Fire Aspect as its weapon of choice, meaning that a normal spider will now inflict fire damage. They are also equipped with Fire Resistance so that the spider can easily be identified by their flaming bodies. The loot they drop is very convenient early on. Stone swords with Sharpness and Fire Aspect, and impossible Unbreaking, make a nice early-game weapon that you can use and manipulate to your heart’s content (FlameVenom Fangs - Chipped and Perfect). Some leather for early armor and early recovery. Can also be used in a multi-player environment for extra armor, not saying you won’t have a crapton of it (FlameVenom Chitin). Some Fire Protection 2 books that is great for applying to armor, and combining to make stronger versions of it (FlameVenom Scales). And some extra XP due to it being a tougher and stronger mob, adding RPG-like progression to the way the player fights mobs (FlameVenom XP).
The Invisible Cave Spider - It is very simply, a Cave Spider that is invisible. But, due to the way Minecraft mechanics works, the eyes still render, causing the idea that you have to watch for the eyes…
But then there are the ones that crashed and burned…
Vechs’ Custom Witch - This thing is considered by many to be VERY overpowered. Not only does this thing drop so many things that clog your inventory it’s stupid, it’s also impossible to kill at melee range in an open space. Pretty much the only possible way to take these things out is by bow, in which Flame doesn’t work, and/or box you in in order to attack the feets of the witch. And not only that, they are enhanced with increased HP, Speed, Fire Resistance (?), and Jump Boost. So, all in all, an overpowered tank with the means to destroy you.
The Thornguard - The Thornguard is another terribly executed mob by Vechs. This thing is branded with a Cactus helmet with Thorns 10/15. That’s right. Attack it, and you sustain MASSIVE damage. But not only that, but it wields a bow. A [REDACTED] BOW. Enchanted with Power, Punch (?), Flame, and Unbreaking. So you are faced with a mob you cannot melee, so your only chance of taking it out is by shooting it, with a bow, and continually getting Thorns damage. While it shoots at you with its OP bow.
The Boomer - This thing is an invisible charged creeper with speed. That’s all it is. It is just a gigantic bringer of raging death.
So noticing how much he destroyed the concept of custom mobs, let’s continue on to talk about stacked mobs. He could have done some pretty cool things with stacked mobs. He could have made creative designs and gameplay standards with these things. But the stacks he made felt rushed, and overpowered, and to many of us, not really balanced. Many of us criticise him on this, but he has disappeared from the forums, so we can’t really tell him out on it on the forums any more Now on to the last section on the topic of custom mobs, the fleecy mobs. This is a topic that is very controversial to many of us here. The fleecy mob idea started in Black Desert 2, a now long-gone trashed map, which, quite frankly, was terrible in its execution. The entire idea was that you gain all your resources through custom mobs. But, with bland environments, and tough balancing issues, there was no hope at the time for the map. But he decided to bring the concept back, so that he could implement the idea into Inferno Mines. The fleecy mobs were a mess, and they could easily be exploited by the player by dropping them into a hole, and hitting the feets. Many veteran players here discuss that this is not the way it should be executed.
So now that we are off the topic of mobs, let’s talk about botched gameplay in areas. Of course, we can say that the gameplay is spot-on in the beginning-I1, although there are some issues with OP mobs in Lower Mines and Everforge. But then we get to I2. And here’s where things go bye-bye in terms of spot-on gameplay. In Hane’s Disgrace, things could be executed better, but it’s still alright. Mellow Cavern is not something that is really “mellow” anymore, due to him putting an abomination of a stacked mob in there. And then there’s Lush Ruins. Oh lord. Lush Ruins. The area everyone loves to hate. It was a complete spawner spam over the limit by about 5 000 000 miles. You kind of start to see the point when I point that kind of thing out. Then there is I3. First, there is Salire Castle. That kind of sucks in gameplay, because the boss mob can EASILY be boxed in, and killed. The jump boost mechanic was interesting, but in those kinds of conditions, they were a bit annoying and not really used well. Then there is Dumb Blast Zisteau Cavern. The concept behind it is genius, but all in all, the concept is poorly executed, as to not cope with the AI of pigmen, and the area in general looks… bleh. And then there is Wilhelm Cliffs. The recent updates make it look good, but the gameplay could have been made better. He could have included more custom mobs, and make it more of a challenge than it really is. You find the Victory Monument and then head to the Outer Inferno, where lies Camp Ember/Ember Castle (I really don’t know remember what it is ). That area just looks BAD. He said that that area accommodates for gameplay more than aesthetics, but when it looks bad, it isn’t that good. I haven’t seen a lot on the gameplay of the area, but what I have heard, it is not a fun thing to play. So we head towards the Vexian Gallery. There is the Blackened Archives (Don’t have much to explain on it, haven’t seen gameplay of it), Zistonian Battlecry, and Eternal Battle. Zistonian Battlecry is just a very badly designed area because it can easily be enderpearled, and running through is honestly plain silly. Eternal Battle is just too much. It is terrible. You have so much crap sieging you that there is no way to get to that fleecy mob on the other side. I really don’t know much, because, again, trying to go off of what people have mentioned in the past. People can back me up on this. So, to end this statement off, the map is good in the beginning, and in I1, but it sucks from I2 to the end of the map.
And the last thing to talk about is the random loot system. He uses mainly the random loot system to give his loot to the player. But this can become extremely flawed, as the player obtains so many pieces of diamond armor that they are running around in full diamond, hacking through the map with no care in the world. And there is so much stuff, that there is really no way to keep it all. Just the brute amount of loot in Lush Ruins was so much for Zisteau, which he then gave up on it. It is completely pointless to have a loot system like that.
So hopefully, in this essay, I have explained to you why the CTM Community does not like Inferno Mines. Again, I’m not hating on Inferno Mines, but showing its flaws and where it fell short. Hopefully this gives you a clear-cut answer, backed up by some better facts from the CTM Community on this map that clearly fell short in Super Hostile standards in our eyes.
EDIT: Because it feels right:
Usily, Id reply to this, But this, OP plx nerf. Very good witty, I pretty much have to agree on every point you made, Thanks for putting some light on the suitation
Skeeto, should I write up a new RH review for the final update? Cause I just replayed it with my friend(he had 564 deaths, don't ask), and the new update definitely improved it.
Skeeto, should I write up a new RH review for the final update? Cause I just replayed it with my friend(he had 564 deaths, don't ask), and the new update definitely improved it.
lolwut
that's more deaths than i've had or plan to have. Didn't think that was possible .3.
well, its better that 30 seconds of poison
Ps: page gets should be called baguettes
I'd say that if you just slap armor or powerful weapons on a mob (unless it's a sword on a skeleton), then it's lackluster. Mobs need to be unique, fair to the player (I'm looking at you, everything in Inferno Mines), and fit the theme of whatever area they're in. Good custom mobs should intrigue the player when they're first seen and/or offer unique gameplay, like the splash potion mobs we've been talking about.
Even then, though, I think lackluster custom mobs are still a nice change of pace from the vanilla mobs, so I don't really mind them. It's like pizza: When it's good, it's really good, and when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Unless it's unbalanced, in which case that would be like burning the pizza, and... um... Pizza...
(Sorry, I'm having pizza for dinner in a few minutes and I'm pretty hungry.)
One other thing that I think makes a good custom mob is having mobs around it that compliment it. An armored wither skellie by itself is fine, but an armored wither skellie surrounded by an army of weaker skellies is interesting. If you can get two or even three custom mobs that compliment each other, that really adds a lot of depth to the gameplay.
Bro burnt pizza is best pizza ur metaphor is borked
A great custom mob is one that challenges your abilities while still being fair to the player(e.g. alone in a room, having some sort of weakness/debuff, or having an effect on them). A lackluster one is(once again with the mocking IM....)something like the zistonians. They are a great concept but with the pigmans aggro distance, strength, and knockback on their signs makes them way too OP for the player to take on, especially on ledges
Edit: I got a baguette
Oops just double posted...... Durp. T_T
I'm a lazy bum so I won't write up a full review, but I'd still like to discuss this map.
First, the negatives:
In my opinion, a few of the later ares fell short. The wool with 9 creeper spawners and no other content felt noobish and uninteresting, the iron ore at the bottom of the lake was a pain to mine and the green wool was really underwhelming compared to how grand the scale of the rest of the map was.
The positives:
The aesthetics (aside from the last area) were amazing. The map was short enough that the build style and amount of green colors still felt fresh by the end. The loot was interesting and immersive. The lore, although ambiguous, was still extremely well done.
The nitpicky little things:
The yellow and lime wools both felt like they needed a bit more content, the Necrotic Iron Sword was a bit OP, and a little bit of erosion would have helped.
Overall, still an awesome map, but there were definitely some problems I noticed. What do you all think?
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Curse PremiumI don't get what is with the hating on IM [...]
Oh lord. I guess I'm going to explain my reasoning in this for all of us to believe that it wasn't what it could have been. Now I may have some facts wrong. You can call me out on those, because I have not played past the white wool due to hardware limitations and issues.
We all have our reasons.
We all have our opinions.
Some may critique my opinions, but what does that matter? This is most of the time how we express our opinions on this newer map recently.
You can go ahead and disregard my opinions as stupid and hating on Vechs as well, but I am trying to write this in as calm as a state as possible. Others may react violently on this kind of message. And that's fine. We admins will have to warn them, and there may be some shuffling through messages and removal of messages. What I'm trying to do is get my reasoning out, without being all crazy and following you up a wall (That was a terrible image, but you should get the point).
Many of us in the CTM genre like great gameplay AND great aesthetics. And for some of us, we believe that Inferno Mines fell short on those regards. While any noob to the CTM genre who has never seen anything outside of vanilla Minecraft might regard this as "stunning and amazing", us CTMers who have seen more than a couple maps in their lifetime (I've seen a couple in my lifetime, I'll admit to it) know that this fell short in many areas. I may not have played it completely through due to hardware limitations (White Wool only), but what I have seen from Lets-Plays and Developer Commentaries is more than enough to state my opinion in a thorough manner.
Just like any Vechs map, there really is no erosion. Vechs has kept true to his classic "USE ALL THE SPHERES!" kind of ways, using just sphere brushes from MCEdit to carve out his caverns. Now, to anyone new to the CTM genre, not knowing about the boundless list of maps outside of Vechs' maps will never think that it looks bad. But when others, who have made a map or two in their time, or are, making one right now, will know that if you include only MCEdit brushes in your map, you will be frowned upon HARD. We just let Vechs do it because it's Vechs, and he prefers gameplay over aesthetics. But that isn't a reason to just disregard aesthetics like it’s not important. Because it is. Both gameplay and aesthetics mingle together in order to make the great experience we all know and like. What we don't like about Vechs' Inferno Mines in terms of aesthetics not only applies to that he used the sphere brush so commonly, but he used the same art direction the entire time. Ever notice how all the way through the map, the common theme is sandstone (And, again. My opinion, the icky variant) and lava. Yes, he may use some sand and gravel. Or he might use some stone and some glowstone and some ore. Or he might use some glass and stonebrick. But all the way throughout the entire map, there is lava and sandstone in some way, shape or form. Of course, you might mention that he eases off of the sandstone by the time you reach the Vexian Gallery, which he then switches to Quartz and Lava. But there's still lava. By about I3, many of us are sore from looking at sandstone and lava. It needs to look better. But there seems to be no sign of improvement. Maps that suffer from this sort of marauding of sandstone and lava throughout the entire map, us CTMers like to label it as the Inferno Mines Syndrome. But enough bantering on about aesthetics. We need to talk about gameplay, which is a topic on this map that many of us thought fell way below its mark.
The gameplay in Inferno Mines was obviously emphasized when this map was being made. Vechs obviously wanted to make a map that innovated with plenty of new gameplay mechanics that were sure to surprise and stimulate the player. With a year in development, many of us believed he would set the bar high and leave us all wowed. But unfortunately that isn’t what happened. The gameplay fell way below the mark of what we all thought would have been the greatest map we ever played gameplay-wise, looking past the borked aesthetics. But when you see how bad the execution of each of the gameplay mechanics and areas he made, it starts to feel bad. Really bad. Let’s start with custom mobs. From any mapmaker’s perspective, I’m going to describe them as mobs that differentiate from vanilla mobs, because they have special perks, or they drop additional items. I am splitting “normal” custom mobs from stacked mobs, and fleecy mobs, just for the fact that they are two different things.
There are some custom mobs that were on par for what they were made for:
FlameVenom Spider - An early game mob with an interesting gameplay mechanic and generous loot. The FlameVenom Spider wields a Stone Sword with Sharpness and Fire Aspect as its weapon of choice, meaning that a normal spider will now inflict fire damage. They are also equipped with Fire Resistance so that the spider can easily be identified by their flaming bodies. The loot they drop is very convenient early on. Stone swords with Sharpness and Fire Aspect, and impossible Unbreaking, make a nice early-game weapon that you can use and manipulate to your heart’s content (FlameVenom Fangs - Chipped and Perfect). Some leather for early armor and early recovery. Can also be used in a multi-player environment for extra armor, not saying you won’t have a crapton of it (FlameVenom Chitin). Some Fire Protection 2 books that is great for applying to armor, and combining to make stronger versions of it (FlameVenom Scales). And some extra XP due to it being a tougher and stronger mob, adding RPG-like progression to the way the player fights mobs (FlameVenom XP).
The Invisible Cave Spider - It is very simply, a Cave Spider that is invisible. But, due to the way Minecraft mechanics works, the eyes still render, causing the idea that you have to watch for the eyes…
But then there are the ones that crashed and burned…
Vechs’ Custom Witch - This thing is considered by many to be VERY overpowered. Not only does this thing drop so many things that clog your inventory it’s stupid, it’s also impossible to kill at melee range in an open space. Pretty much the only possible way to take these things out is by bow, in which Flame doesn’t work, and/or box you in in order to attack the feets of the witch. And not only that, they are enhanced with increased HP, Speed, Fire Resistance (?), and Jump Boost. So, all in all, an overpowered tank with the means to destroy you.
The Thornguard - The Thornguard is another terribly executed mob by Vechs. This thing is branded with a Cactus helmet with Thorns 10/15. That’s right. Attack it, and you sustain MASSIVE damage. But not only that, but it wields a bow. A [REDACTED] BOW. Enchanted with Power, Punch (?), Flame, and Unbreaking. So you are faced with a mob you cannot melee, so your only chance of taking it out is by shooting it, with a bow, and continually getting Thorns damage. While it shoots at you with its OP bow.
The Boomer - This thing is an invisible charged creeper with speed. That’s all it is. It is just a gigantic bringer of raging death.
So noticing how much he destroyed the concept of custom mobs, let’s continue on to talk about stacked mobs. He could have done some pretty cool things with stacked mobs. He could have made creative designs and gameplay standards with these things. But the stacks he made felt rushed, and overpowered, and to many of us, not really balanced. Many of us criticise him on this, but he has disappeared from the forums, so we can’t really tell him out on it on the forums any more Now on to the last section on the topic of custom mobs, the fleecy mobs. This is a topic that is very controversial to many of us here. The fleecy mob idea started in Black Desert 2, a now long-gone trashed map, which, quite frankly, was terrible in its execution. The entire idea was that you gain all your resources through custom mobs. But, with bland environments, and tough balancing issues, there was no hope at the time for the map. But he decided to bring the concept back, so that he could implement the idea into Inferno Mines. The fleecy mobs were a mess, and they could easily be exploited by the player by dropping them into a hole, and hitting the feets. Many veteran players here discuss that this is not the way it should be executed.
So now that we are off the topic of mobs, let’s talk about botched gameplay in areas. Of course, we can say that the gameplay is spot-on in the beginning-I1, although there are some issues with OP mobs in Lower Mines and Everforge. But then we get to I2. And here’s where things go bye-bye in terms of spot-on gameplay. In Hane’s Disgrace, things could be executed better, but it’s still alright. Mellow Cavern is not something that is really “mellow” anymore, due to him putting an abomination of a stacked mob in there. And then there’s Lush Ruins. Oh lord. Lush Ruins. The area everyone loves to hate. It was a complete spawner spam over the limit by about 5 000 000 miles. You kind of start to see the point when I point that kind of thing out. Then there is I3. First, there is Salire Castle. That kind of sucks in gameplay, because the boss mob can EASILY be boxed in, and killed. The jump boost mechanic was interesting, but in those kinds of conditions, they were a bit annoying and not really used well. Then there is Dumb Blast Zisteau Cavern. The concept behind it is genius, but all in all, the concept is poorly executed, as to not cope with the AI of pigmen, and the area in general looks… bleh. And then there is Wilhelm Cliffs. The recent updates make it look good, but the gameplay could have been made better. He could have included more custom mobs, and make it more of a challenge than it really is. You find the Victory Monument and then head to the Outer Inferno, where lies Camp Ember/Ember Castle (I really don’t know remember what it is
And the last thing to talk about is the random loot system. He uses mainly the random loot system to give his loot to the player. But this can become extremely flawed, as the player obtains so many pieces of diamond armor that they are running around in full diamond, hacking through the map with no care in the world. And there is so much stuff, that there is really no way to keep it all. Just the brute amount of loot in Lush Ruins was so much for Zisteau, which he then gave up on it. It is completely pointless to have a loot system like that.
So hopefully, in this essay, I have explained to you why the CTM Community does not like Inferno Mines. Again, I’m not hating on Inferno Mines, but showing its flaws and where it fell short. Hopefully this gives you a clear-cut answer, backed up by some better facts from the CTM Community on this map that clearly fell short in Super Hostile standards in our eyes.
EDIT: Because it feels right:
A great custom mob would be one that gives a different gameplay aspect than the normal Hit-And-Kill or just simply using a bow to kill it. One that would make you think before you hit
DON'T START. That was the exact reason why I left the SH forum page.
Also
Ice, I see you got a mustache
*Wears a mustache*
Now we're brother ladies
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Curse PremiumAt the custom mob thingy:
Try make them fit in the area. No ghasts in an icy area, or zombies with an ice block head in a area of lava. Try make them look like they "match" the area. Give them special skills, and weaken other factors. A one-hit kill skeleton with punch 5 is very interesting. A skeleton with punch V, power III and Flame I is just annoying. Every pro needs a con, and make it balanced. Fiddle (words?) around with stats like player detection radius, speed, attackstrength and armour. Try to stack mobs and combine their abilities to create unique gameplay.
One other tip, in later areas, give them regeneration. That way, turning everything on fire won't work all the time, you have to take the mobs out in 30s, or health resets. Makes some interesting gameplay!
Another thing that pops up in my mind is making use of spawnpotentials. Making a skeleton with a weight of 10 weak, and one with weight 1 very strong, makes some "battlefield generals" that can make it even more interesting!
Try make your mobs fit with the look of the area, the tier of loot you find in chests, the other mobs surrounding them and make sure to balance them.
I hate mobs that have a dropchance of like 50% with armour. Kill ten of them and your inventory is full. A 10% chance is high enough to be able to farm them slowly. Don't go to crazy!
Them dropping food, meh... Potions, weapons and unique items are more interesting i think... If the player has access to cows, food won't be a problem
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Curse PremiumAh that's of 1.6.2? In that case, give them regen, that is still nerfed right?
dude, i agree with what you're saying, but seriously, spoilers. ;3;
My Thread: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1881805-ctm-wip-lands-of-mystery-by-bnm-new-map-started/#entry23248316
lolwut
that's more deaths than i've had or plan to have. Didn't think that was possible .3.
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Curse PremiumWell, 564 deaths, let's say 30 hours of playing, means 564/30 ~~ 18 deaths an hour. That's like die, respawn, gear up, get killed by the first mob...