Im not diggin the "wands that shoot magic beams". Its... kind of girly in a way. Steampunk as some people have suggested is the way to go. Its got all the grime and imperfection of the past, with all the might and power of the future.
But steampunk can get overdone... something like pistons, that's okay. I'm still fine with zeppelins, coal powered carts, etc (provided, of course, that they are carefully balanced), but I think guns would be better as magic or (preferably) crossbows, even if other aspects of Minecraft are newer than guns. It's best kept simple, if there is an older, simpler alternative such as crossbows to guns, it should be used. If there isn't, it should be steampunk (and if even that isn't enough, magic).
What I hate are when someone suggests something like, "Cars in Minecraft", and then you get 15 replys saying "impossible", "doesn't fit", "overpowered" and so forth. I for one don't think cars should be in minecraft, but I feel that by not posting in the topic I do a better job of not supporting the topic, especially if the point was already made, "does not fit".
Really you are just hurting your cause if you repeat what has already been said without adding on to it. "Cars don't fit the settings, but how about horses" sounds much better. For all we know the poster of "Cars in Minecraft" may have never considered horses as an alternative.
Saying it is impossible is another thing I hate. To dismiss a topic as impossible even with an explanation seems ridiculous to me. "Cars in Minecraft are impossible because the game is made of blocks" sounds reasonable to most people, but to me and Im sure some others may agree it is not impossible. I would probably add that we may need to have ramp blocks first, that way we can make roads that the cars can travel on.
As for overpowered, using cars as an example again, just saying it is overpowered is not enough. How are cars overpowered? Too fast? Can run over mobs? What if we made them slow, maybe twice the speed of running instead of 10x?
Anyways I think it is unproductive to respond again and again that its a bad idea without adding why it is a bad idea. If you think its a bad idea you should as the person replying want to show the people that like the idea why you think the idea is bad.
Another thing is as the topic starter, you need to realize just because you want something in your game, it might not be best for everyone's game, "Cars in Minecraft" may be a good mod, but most people would agree that it wouldn't fit in suggestions. Sometimes it takes a good mod to realize it would be a good addiction to the game, aka Pistons.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If it already has been done then it can be done again" or
"If its a mod its possible to be a feature"
In my humble opinion, dismissing a suggestion as "Girly" should be a warn offense.
Please explain in more detail... :dry.gif:
I really should stop replying to peoples comments, because I end up just trying to reason with just... unreasonable people. It gets to where I have to repeat myself, and then said people are just in continuous denial anyways, or try to turn the argument with something irrelevant or false. Anyways I chose to reply to this one because it was easy:
If you actually read, I meant no offence to the poster since he showed me the same respect. I feel that a wand that shoots sparkles (that may be a slight exaggeration) to be girly. I believe that if you cant understand how something like that is girly then you have a reasoning problem. Nevertheless, its an opinion, and I was not crude about it and I dont think I deserve to be reported.
Now how about instead of a wand, a staff that shoots whatever element you want? I imagine lightning as a long range specialized thing, water as a way to damage fire enemies and create water where its needed and a fire/lava staff.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
So I had this new idea. Let me know if you like it:
I was told that instead of having guns in the game, I should be allowed a "fantastical" equivalent to such an item. For each item respectively; a gun would be a wand, a car would be a horse, a spaceship/airplane would be a flying cloud or something, etc. So people like scifi more than fantasy and vice versa, so how about we give the players an option for either? So imagine on a pvp server for example, one player wields a wand and the other a gun, or one TNT and the other a lava staff or other. So for every item there is a opposite style.
Obviously it would be a bit bland if every item was basically the same aside from shooting out magic thingies and the other using bullets, which is why magic will have advantages over technology and vice versa.
Theres alot of blank spaces in my idea so feel free to elaborate.
If requested I will make a thread on this, and would appreciate title ideas.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
LoL
In all seriousness, things like guns and space travle really doesn't fit in with minecraft,since minecraft was ment to be mid-evil.
If you want to get technical with redstone, you could say that its primative wiring, based on magnets. Since it can make compasses, and with the whole inversion of power thing.
Ok, tell me where it says minecraft was meant to be midevial.
Bows & arrows are still used today.
Swords? Look at bayonets.
Armor? Who says someone trying to survive can't craft that?
It is most likely in the middle of midevial and present. Think of soldiers in the musketeer days. They wore iron armor.
So I had this new idea. Let me know if you like it:
I was told that instead of having guns in the game, I should be allowed a "fantastical" equivalent to such an item. For each item respectively; a gun would be a wand, a car would be a horse, a spaceship/airplane would be a flying cloud or something, etc. So people like scifi more than fantasy and vice versa, so how about we give the players an option for either? So imagine on a pvp server for example, one player wields a wand and the other a gun, or one TNT and the other a lava staff or other. So for every item there is a opposite style.
Obviously it would be a bit bland if every item was basically the same aside from shooting out magic thingies and the other using bullets, which is why magic will have advantages over technology and vice versa.
Theres alot of blank spaces in my idea so feel free to elaborate.
If requested I will make a thread on this, and would appreciate title ideas.
Conflicting styles would become a problem if there were medieval and sci-fi elements. In a mod, fine. Anything is okay, and often good, in a mod. But a mod is optional without the bulk that adding something creates, even if it can be disabled. A server that is fine with the two styles is welcome to use a mod that allows for them. I am, personally, more of a fan of sci-fi books, movies, etc. than fantasy, but sci-fi doesn't seem to fit into Minecraft. Sure, I like sci-fi, but a book in a medieval setting where someone suddenly turns up with a laser gun would be extremely hard to make a good book.
Remember, when you play Minecraft you're not just a guy washed up on a deserted island. You're on a whole new world. You might have superhuman powers to lift thousands of tons of blocks on your back, chop down trees with your fist, and shape stone, iron, even diamonds into tools and other things. But you aren't superhuman in reasoning skills, just above average. A very intelligent man can figure out how to make a dispenser, how to create a a furnace hot enough to melt iron, how to make an explosive out of sand and gunpowder which he calls TNT (perhaps he didn't know what else to call it), and so on.
But a gun takes a lot more skill, at least a gun that is better than a bow. Steve can remember guns from before he ended up in this new world, but he cannot recreate one that would function better than a bow. To create the gun and bullets with enough precision to make it fly faster and farther than an arrow is beyond his expert craftmanship and mind.For things like traveling to different worlds Steve relies on magic instead.
This, in my opinion, is the theme of Minecraft. Everything beyond the mind and craftmanship of even an exceptional man, with little knowledge of how things worked before hand, is magical, for how else could this single man have done it?
EDIT: Also, I meant to say this but I forgot, the man washed up around the 1800s. So he still has knowledge of things like this, but not modern stuff.
I like the idea of game balance and options to choose your prefered flavor of MC, it adds content to the game rather than limiting it.
As for the "girly" comment, no offence, but I really dislike folks using expressions like that to dissmiss something. I suspect it has something to do with being female IRL. Probably annoys me as much as folks using "Doesn't fit with setting" annoys you! :wink.gif:
Wand, Staff or Plasma Rifle, as long as it destroys what I point it at, I'm happy (and I'm not going to turn this into a stick measuring excercise in MC!).
Okay, Lord Penguin, you are assuming things and making things up about Steve. First of all, the game doesnt take place in the 1800s. There is no lore, no story, and no links you can reference to prove it. How do you know how smart Steve is? Should anybody care? It doesnt matter how Steve does what he does but you cant assume it is magic. In the end does it really matter? I didnt even ****ing know his name was steve until I saw it on the forums. Maybe people made that up as well? I always assume, when a videogame seriously wanders from what is realistic, that the said action in the game is a metaphor for real life. So for example in a FPS, I imagine that instead of one man shooting down groups of people in what would seem an unrealistic task, he actually only killed like three people or whatever. Or in Minecraft the act of having a full food bar healing you is actually a simulation of the few days that it would take to do so. But if a game is awesome enough, it really doesnt ****ing matter if its realistic does it?
Notch states that hes going for a certain style, but never specifically states what style, and from then people have completely blown it out of proportion and assumed the game was "fantasy".
You say "even if it is a toggleable option it wont fit". So even if you have the choice to disable technology in order to better suit you, you still want to deny me the option of playing the game the way I wish too? Stupidity and selfishness.
Also, yes in a story that is good and isnt cheesy and does it right, medieval and scifi go awesome together. I dont know why you have this ridiculous idea that it doesnt. Thats why time travel stories are so popular. In Star Ocean, do you think people complained about the fact Claude Kennedy brought a plasma pistol with him to a primitive and magic weilding planet? No the game was praised as a classic.
EDIT: by weilding the F word in my argument, I am not trying to flame you. I am merely showing my passion/emotion in that part of the argument.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Okay, Lord Penguin, you are assuming things and making things up about Steve. First of all, the game doesnt take place in the 1800s. There is no lore, no story, and no links you can reference to prove it. How do you know how smart Steve is? Should anybody care? It doesnt matter how Steve does what he does but you cant assume it is magic. In the end does it really matter? I didnt even ****ing know his name was steve until I saw it on the forums. Maybe people made that up as well? I always assume, when a videogame seriously wanders from what is realistic, that the said action in the game is a metaphor for real life. So for example in a FPS, I imagine that instead of one man shooting down groups of people in what would seem an unrealistic task, he actually only killed like three people or whatever. Or in Minecraft the act of having a full food bar healing you is actually a simulation of the few days that it would take to do so. But if a game is awesome enough, it really doesnt ****ing matter if its realistic does it?
Notch states that hes going for a certain style, but never specifically states what style, and from then people have completely blown it out of proportion and assumed the game was "fantasy".
You say "even if it is a toggleable option it wont fit". So even if you have the choice to disable technology in order to better suit you, you still want to deny me the option of playing the game the way I wish too? Stupidity and selfishness.
Also, yes in a story that is good and isnt cheesy and does it right, medieval and scifi go awesome together. I dont know why you have this ridiculous idea that it doesnt. Thats why time travel stories are so popular. In Star Ocean, do you think people complained about the fact Claude Kennedy brought a plasma pistol with him to a primitive and magic weilding planet? No the game was praised as a classic.
EDIT: by weilding the F word in my argument, I am not trying to flame you. I am merely showing my passion/emotion in that part of the argument.
Notch originally made up the name "Steve".
The 1800s part is just how the technology looks, if it were modern times, Steve would be tempted to make something or other look like he remembered modern things looked, but too much sooner than that and Steve wouldn't have made things like they are. It could be somewhat later, possibly early 1900s. I can assume his intelligence as above average, but not a genius, seeing as he hasn't built small, block sized computers with redstone, hasn't built cars, hasn't built any air machines, etc, but was still able to figure out how to build pistons, dispensers, and so on. In games, both the player and the character have knowledge. In first person shooters, the player doesn't have to know how to hold the gun or toss a grenade, the character knows that, at the same time the player knows how to win or certain strategies to achieve different things, but the character doesn't know that.
And, yes, I can assume some things are magic. How could enchantments, teleportation, portals, the nether, the end, etc. not be magic?
About the options: A toggleable option can be a problem. Why don't we just add every suggestion that ever was as an option (or even just a single random, bad suggestion)? After all, you could just turn them all off. Also, being able to increase the apparent technological state of Minecraft (or any game) by clicking a button doesn't really make sense. If you really want it to appear technologically advanced, you can always retexture wands/staves to laser weapons, bows to guns and arrows to bullets, etc. If you actually want to be able to make, for example, a gun and bullets out of iron, mods are always available.
Finally, it does seem like you're flaming (and, in my opinion, you kind of are. Try to be calmer in your argument, no matter how angry you are in real life, although I still cannot see why anyone would be angry at anything that was not purposely insulting them). Flaming is basically showing your anger and insulting people.
You cant assume the game takes place in the 1800s, and you cant begin to assume things about Steve as there is no official statements, lore, or anything else to support them. Minecraft does not take place on earth, so how can you compare it to a time period on earth anyways?
I never said there wasnt magic in Minecraft.
A "technology yes or no" option would not be a problem. Your reasons for why they "would" be a problem are weak and ultimately selfish. And yeah; why dont we add every suggestion that was ever made as a optional gameplay feature? Well the most obvious reason is that would be alot of work, but technically its not a bad idea. Making it an optional though official feature would be no different than installing a mod, except for the part where its an official feature.
And just because I used curse words does not in any way mean that I flamed you. I brought a presentable and grammatically correct argument to you, and used such words above for the said reasons. Also; when I called you stupid, I was not being crude but honest.
What in the HELL are you saying here?:
In first person shooters, the player doesn't have to know how to hold the gun or toss a grenade, the character knows that, at the same time the player knows how to win or certain strategies to achieve different things, but the character doesn't know that.
Well in Minecraft the player doesnt have to actually know how to make TNT or etc. and thats the only bit I can make sense of enough to reply to.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I personally think that it should NOT be a warnable offence because.. well, lemme explain it to you.A theme or setting is essential to a game, probably even a sandbox game, so it's kinda like a frame, without it, it becomes a mess, minecraft shouldn't have hi-tech, or modern items, such as guns and lasers because notch says he doesn't want hi-tech in the game, but i ALSO don't think minecraft is fantasy, in fact, i think it is more of a roblox/lego meets stranded-on-island type game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be caring, please help my dragon hatch by giving him a little click.
I personally think that it should NOT be a warnable offence because.. well, lemme explain it to you.A theme or setting is essential to a game, probably even a sandbox game, so it's kinda like a frame, without it, it becomes a mess, minecraft shouldn't have hi-tech, or modern items, such as guns and lasers because notch says he doesn't want hi-tech in the game, but i ALSO don't think minecraft is fantasy, in fact, i think it is more of a roblox/lego meets stranded-on-island type game.
Stranded on island making coconut radios, reminds me of a tv show :smile.gif:
You do make a good point, though I don't think its totally impossible to add more tech into this game, as long as its done right. Maybe a time portal or dimension with high tech. Like when you go to nether, you gain access to new resources.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If it already has been done then it can be done again" or
"If its a mod its possible to be a feature"
But steampunk can get overdone... something like pistons, that's okay. I'm still fine with zeppelins, coal powered carts, etc (provided, of course, that they are carefully balanced), but I think guns would be better as magic or (preferably) crossbows, even if other aspects of Minecraft are newer than guns. It's best kept simple, if there is an older, simpler alternative such as crossbows to guns, it should be used. If there isn't, it should be steampunk (and if even that isn't enough, magic).
Pipes
Please explain in more detail... :dry.gif:
Really you are just hurting your cause if you repeat what has already been said without adding on to it. "Cars don't fit the settings, but how about horses" sounds much better. For all we know the poster of "Cars in Minecraft" may have never considered horses as an alternative.
Saying it is impossible is another thing I hate. To dismiss a topic as impossible even with an explanation seems ridiculous to me. "Cars in Minecraft are impossible because the game is made of blocks" sounds reasonable to most people, but to me and Im sure some others may agree it is not impossible. I would probably add that we may need to have ramp blocks first, that way we can make roads that the cars can travel on.
As for overpowered, using cars as an example again, just saying it is overpowered is not enough. How are cars overpowered? Too fast? Can run over mobs? What if we made them slow, maybe twice the speed of running instead of 10x?
Anyways I think it is unproductive to respond again and again that its a bad idea without adding why it is a bad idea. If you think its a bad idea you should as the person replying want to show the people that like the idea why you think the idea is bad.
Another thing is as the topic starter, you need to realize just because you want something in your game, it might not be best for everyone's game, "Cars in Minecraft" may be a good mod, but most people would agree that it wouldn't fit in suggestions. Sometimes it takes a good mod to realize it would be a good addiction to the game, aka Pistons.
"If its a mod its possible to be a feature"
I really should stop replying to peoples comments, because I end up just trying to reason with just... unreasonable people. It gets to where I have to repeat myself, and then said people are just in continuous denial anyways, or try to turn the argument with something irrelevant or false. Anyways I chose to reply to this one because it was easy:
If you actually read, I meant no offence to the poster since he showed me the same respect. I feel that a wand that shoots sparkles (that may be a slight exaggeration) to be girly. I believe that if you cant understand how something like that is girly then you have a reasoning problem. Nevertheless, its an opinion, and I was not crude about it and I dont think I deserve to be reported.
Now how about instead of a wand, a staff that shoots whatever element you want? I imagine lightning as a long range specialized thing, water as a way to damage fire enemies and create water where its needed and a fire/lava staff.
I was told that instead of having guns in the game, I should be allowed a "fantastical" equivalent to such an item. For each item respectively; a gun would be a wand, a car would be a horse, a spaceship/airplane would be a flying cloud or something, etc. So people like scifi more than fantasy and vice versa, so how about we give the players an option for either? So imagine on a pvp server for example, one player wields a wand and the other a gun, or one TNT and the other a lava staff or other. So for every item there is a opposite style.
Obviously it would be a bit bland if every item was basically the same aside from shooting out magic thingies and the other using bullets, which is why magic will have advantages over technology and vice versa.
Theres alot of blank spaces in my idea so feel free to elaborate.
If requested I will make a thread on this, and would appreciate title ideas.
Ok, tell me where it says minecraft was meant to be midevial.
Bows & arrows are still used today.
Swords? Look at bayonets.
Armor? Who says someone trying to survive can't craft that?
It is most likely in the middle of midevial and present. Think of soldiers in the musketeer days. They wore iron armor.
Conflicting styles would become a problem if there were medieval and sci-fi elements. In a mod, fine. Anything is okay, and often good, in a mod. But a mod is optional without the bulk that adding something creates, even if it can be disabled. A server that is fine with the two styles is welcome to use a mod that allows for them. I am, personally, more of a fan of sci-fi books, movies, etc. than fantasy, but sci-fi doesn't seem to fit into Minecraft. Sure, I like sci-fi, but a book in a medieval setting where someone suddenly turns up with a laser gun would be extremely hard to make a good book.
Remember, when you play Minecraft you're not just a guy washed up on a deserted island. You're on a whole new world. You might have superhuman powers to lift thousands of tons of blocks on your back, chop down trees with your fist, and shape stone, iron, even diamonds into tools and other things. But you aren't superhuman in reasoning skills, just above average. A very intelligent man can figure out how to make a dispenser, how to create a a furnace hot enough to melt iron, how to make an explosive out of sand and gunpowder which he calls TNT (perhaps he didn't know what else to call it), and so on.
But a gun takes a lot more skill, at least a gun that is better than a bow. Steve can remember guns from before he ended up in this new world, but he cannot recreate one that would function better than a bow. To create the gun and bullets with enough precision to make it fly faster and farther than an arrow is beyond his expert craftmanship and mind.For things like traveling to different worlds Steve relies on magic instead.
This, in my opinion, is the theme of Minecraft. Everything beyond the mind and craftmanship of even an exceptional man, with little knowledge of how things worked before hand, is magical, for how else could this single man have done it?
EDIT: Also, I meant to say this but I forgot, the man washed up around the 1800s. So he still has knowledge of things like this, but not modern stuff.
Pipes
I like the idea of game balance and options to choose your prefered flavor of MC, it adds content to the game rather than limiting it.
As for the "girly" comment, no offence, but I really dislike folks using expressions like that to dissmiss something. I suspect it has something to do with being female IRL. Probably annoys me as much as folks using "Doesn't fit with setting" annoys you! :wink.gif:
Wand, Staff or Plasma Rifle, as long as it destroys what I point it at, I'm happy (and I'm not going to turn this into a stick measuring excercise in MC!).
Notch states that hes going for a certain style, but never specifically states what style, and from then people have completely blown it out of proportion and assumed the game was "fantasy".
You say "even if it is a toggleable option it wont fit". So even if you have the choice to disable technology in order to better suit you, you still want to deny me the option of playing the game the way I wish too? Stupidity and selfishness.
Also, yes in a story that is good and isnt cheesy and does it right, medieval and scifi go awesome together. I dont know why you have this ridiculous idea that it doesnt. Thats why time travel stories are so popular. In Star Ocean, do you think people complained about the fact Claude Kennedy brought a plasma pistol with him to a primitive and magic weilding planet? No the game was praised as a classic.
EDIT: by weilding the F word in my argument, I am not trying to flame you. I am merely showing my passion/emotion in that part of the argument.
Notch originally made up the name "Steve".
The 1800s part is just how the technology looks, if it were modern times, Steve would be tempted to make something or other look like he remembered modern things looked, but too much sooner than that and Steve wouldn't have made things like they are. It could be somewhat later, possibly early 1900s. I can assume his intelligence as above average, but not a genius, seeing as he hasn't built small, block sized computers with redstone, hasn't built cars, hasn't built any air machines, etc, but was still able to figure out how to build pistons, dispensers, and so on. In games, both the player and the character have knowledge. In first person shooters, the player doesn't have to know how to hold the gun or toss a grenade, the character knows that, at the same time the player knows how to win or certain strategies to achieve different things, but the character doesn't know that.
And, yes, I can assume some things are magic. How could enchantments, teleportation, portals, the nether, the end, etc. not be magic?
About the options: A toggleable option can be a problem. Why don't we just add every suggestion that ever was as an option (or even just a single random, bad suggestion)? After all, you could just turn them all off. Also, being able to increase the apparent technological state of Minecraft (or any game) by clicking a button doesn't really make sense. If you really want it to appear technologically advanced, you can always retexture wands/staves to laser weapons, bows to guns and arrows to bullets, etc. If you actually want to be able to make, for example, a gun and bullets out of iron, mods are always available.
Finally, it does seem like you're flaming (and, in my opinion, you kind of are. Try to be calmer in your argument, no matter how angry you are in real life, although I still cannot see why anyone would be angry at anything that was not purposely insulting them). Flaming is basically showing your anger and insulting people.
Pipes
I never said there wasnt magic in Minecraft.
A "technology yes or no" option would not be a problem. Your reasons for why they "would" be a problem are weak and ultimately selfish. And yeah; why dont we add every suggestion that was ever made as a optional gameplay feature? Well the most obvious reason is that would be alot of work, but technically its not a bad idea. Making it an optional though official feature would be no different than installing a mod, except for the part where its an official feature.
And just because I used curse words does not in any way mean that I flamed you. I brought a presentable and grammatically correct argument to you, and used such words above for the said reasons. Also; when I called you stupid, I was not being crude but honest.
What in the HELL are you saying here?:
Well in Minecraft the player doesnt have to actually know how to make TNT or etc. and thats the only bit I can make sense of enough to reply to.
Stranded on island making coconut radios, reminds me of a tv show :smile.gif:
You do make a good point, though I don't think its totally impossible to add more tech into this game, as long as its done right. Maybe a time portal or dimension with high tech. Like when you go to nether, you gain access to new resources.
"If its a mod its possible to be a feature"