I want java 64 bit but to get it i need to have 64 bit processor.
i have 32 bit but my details say its 64 bit compatiable (im on laptop if that matters)
so is there anyway i can upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit (dosent matter if i have to buy it)
Please send me a link if you know how to or reply to this forum.
You don't need a 64-bit OS as your computer does not have 4GB or more RAM. You should stick with your 32-bit OS and 32-bit Java as going to 64-bit is rather unneccessary for what you have.
I think you can do it with windows anytime upgrade not too sure though. Or just order an OEM copy (64bit) from newegg. $100.
If you have a 64-bit processor (but 32-bit OS), you just need to install the 64-bit version of the OS. A bunch of companies didn't originally ship with 64-bit Windows because of compatibility issues early on.D
o you have the Windows install disc that came with the laptop? Or do you know someone else with a Windows install disc for the same version? You don't need to buy a separate license just to switch from 32-bit to 64-bit. Your license is valid for either. You just need to reformat your computer using the same version/disc and choose a 64-bit installation.
You don't need a 64-bit OS as your computer does not have 4GB or more RAM. You should stick with your 32-bit OS and 32-bit Java as going to 64-bit is rather unneccessary for what you have.
Don't you need 64-bit Java in order to use a FAR render distance in Minecraft? If so, the OP would need a 64-bit OS to have 64-bit JAVA.
64-bit is preferred because otherwise you are painting yourself in a corner. Best example will be one of my typical flashbacks in history.
Take... when 32-bit was new. There was a lot of noise about it. 32-bit! Oh the excitement. 386 was all the rage. It was faster at running 16-bit programs because it ran them just like it's predecessor, but at a higher clock speed, with more cache, and lower wait times.
When the 32-bit Processor really screamed of course was running 32-bit instructions. These didn't start getting utilized en masse until windows 95 came around, with the exception of "Enhanced mode" and a few games here and there.
The fact that Consumer versions of Windows x86 cannot use more than 4GB of memory is not even a factor in choosing which OS to use, IMO.
If you have a 64-bit CPU, you should be using a 64-bit system. Otherwise, like I said- you are painting yourself in a corner as now ALL your programs can only use 32-bit instructions. Sure- they run the 32-bit instruction faster than their 32-bit instruction-only predecessors, but again, the real power comes from actually utilizing their 64-bit capabilities; many of the newer instructions are 64-bit only, and therefore can only ever be used in 64-bit protected mode. 32-bit programs still run the same as they would on a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit OS, too.
The only thing people seem to be able to bring up re: memory size is that "Pointers are twice as large" as if this will somehow consume a lot of memory. The memory that pointers point at is almost always going to surpass the actual size of the pointers. It's like complaining that you have a pan with a full 1 foot handle when the pan itself is 12 feet in diameter either way.
Additionally, 64-bit Windows extends the Address space limitation of each process past 4GB; this matters regardless of whether you have that much memory or not.
Do to the way Microsoft handled it's kernel patch protection feature in 64 bit os, the 32 bit is a tab more safer to work with. Not that it matter to most people, in some cases, you can not tell what the kernel in the 64 bit os is actually doing, leading to some security problems.
As for you learning java, it does not matter. By the time you get around to actually using 64 bit java, you will by then be ready to upgrade.
I, on the other hand, would not bother to learn java, if you plan to do more then just create some simple mods and begin to learn new code.
Java is going to go the way of flash. It is out dated, it is a terrible mess to debug, and it is inefficiencies start to show through when you program something a little more then a simple video game.
Anyone can wonder why minecraft will run on xbox with C code, but will not run on a computer with twice the processing power in java. I understand that java, if written correctly is really solid, but who writes it correctly. I mean the motto for java is compile it once, debug it everywhere.
But the biggest reason to move away from java is Oracle. Anyone that wants to create a good software will, sooner or later, be sued by oracle. Oracle is the one and only reason you should move on from java, if the other reasons where good enough.
Do to the way Microsoft handled it's kernel patch protection feature in 64 bit os, the 32 bit is a tab more safer to work with. Not that it matter to most people, in some cases, you can not tell what the kernel in the 64 bit os is actually doing, leading to some security problems.
The entire purpose of Kernel Patch protection is to keep user-mode processes from having "low-level" information about the system. 32-bit windows doesn't have Kernel Patch protection at all. How this can be seen as making the 32-bit version "more secure" just because you don't know exactly what the x64 version does (because, you know, it's not like it's documented or anything, right?). Kernel patch protection prevents the kernel from being patched by malicious applications. Now, arguably, the only way a process can start patching the kernel is if it manages to inject a piece of software into Ring 0, at which point most boxes are considered "owned" but this sort of facility prevents it from completely owning a machine. This helps circumvent 64-bit variants of common rootkit infection vectors.
As for you learning java, it does not matter. By the time you get around to actually using 64 bit java, you will by then be ready to upgrade.
He doesn't say anything about learning Java, though. Isn't he "around to using 64-bit Java" right now as evidenced by his question to begin with?
I, on the other hand, would not bother to learn java, if you plan to do more then just create some simple mods and begin to learn new code.
Why? Oh wait here's the explanation.
Java is going to go the way of flash. It is out dated, it is a terrible mess to debug, and it is inefficiencies start to show through when you program something a little more then a simple video game.
I'm far from a Java apologist- hell I can't stand the language itself... but this is downright ****ing stupid. It's not "out-dated"- citation needed for that one- it's not at all difficult to debug, either- all the major IDE's have rather powerful debugging features including breakpoints, something that sometimes requires dropping into gdb to get with C.
Anyone can wonder why minecraft will run on xbox with C code
The Xbox360 version of the game is written mostly in C#. it's not written in Java probably for the main reason that... well, Java isn't a supported language for the Xbox360. C# still runs within a similar managed-memory environment. I think some of the low-level requirements are done with C. Just like with the PC implementation with uses LWJGL which itself interfaces using JNI with the OpenGL C API. I don't know specifically what C++/CLI is used for in the MC XBox 360 version, though.
but will not run on a computer with twice the processing power in java.
The Xbox 360 game was re-architected, from first principles for the purpose of running on the console; it wasn't merely a reimplementation of the exact same thing in C (and as mentioned about it doesn't use C anyway). Duke Nukem 64 required far less power than the PC variant, but again, it was designed from first-principles; Silverman's Build 3-D Engine was rewritten to take advantage of the set hardware constraints and capabilities of the system (The n64) as well as to take account limitations such as texture size; at the same time exploiting the fact that most I/O was no longer a major bottleneck because it was read from ROM. the xbox360 version of Minecraft no doubt followed a similar path, with the game re-architected to best take advantage of the capabilities guaranteed to be in every console.
I understand that java, if written correctly is really solid
"solid" is a bit vague in this context, isn't it? Besides, this applies for any other language. No programming language magically is always solid code. The only one I can think of off-hand that sort of encourages it is D, because it has built-in unit testing capabilities as part of the core language and compiler.
but who writes it correctly. I mean the motto for java is compile it once, debug it everywhere.
The actual motto is "Write once run anywhere" the reality is "Write once, test everywhere". For the most part it holds true to this claim. Minecraft runs on almost every Java system; the only place most platform-specific bugs crop up is in the C Interface libraries, particularly on Linux with LWJGL since it has that weird keypress bug.
But the biggest reason to move away from java is Oracle. Anyone that wants to create a good software will, sooner or later, be sued by oracle. Oracle is the one and only reason you should move on from java, if the other reasons where good enough.
While I agree, I disagree with the Reason. I regard Oracle with no more contempt than I do Sun Microsystems. Oracle sued Google for copy-pasting parts of the core Java API. how much was it? I don't know. I think it might have been an entire package, actually. google was not sued for USING the API, they were sued for copying the code in the API. The Java class library is available in source format, but it's use requires a license. Google didn't have that license to use Java tech, and were blatantly vindictive towards Oracle, essentially "we are google, we do whateva we want" type attitude, which, not surprisingly, Oracle did not like. Google sympathizers who could tell their own ass from a hole in the ground just conflate the issue by saying "OMG Google was sued for having/using a API" and spread constant FUD about the issue, such as saying that if you use Java you will get sued. Not the case. If you lift code from a given piece of software that has a license and then try to pass that code off under a different license, don't be surprised when said vendor takes issue with it.
Was reading through this thread and wanted to make a couple comments.
@bc_programming- Glad at least someone in here knows what they're talking about.
@fel99- The guy had a point, but there's no need to start a flame war over something so minor. Also, being 13 years old and knowing basic grammar rules is frankly nothing to brag about. And your comment about whether Oracle sues people for making software with Java was pretty dumb; its a language and that's what you're supposed to do with it.
OK, connection is working a bit better and I decided to do a bit of digging on the Oracle v. Google thing.
Not by reading news articles, but by reading the actual filed complaint. Some highlights:
Google has been aware of Sun’s patent portfolio, including the patents at issue, since the middle of this decade, when Google hired certain former Sun Java engineers.
eg. They cannot claim "clean room" reverse engineering a a 'la Phoenix technologies and IBM.
On October 12, 1999, United States Patent No. 5,966,702, (“the '702 patent”)
6 entitled “Method And Apparatus For Preprocessing And Packaging Class Files” was duly and
7 legally issued to Sun by the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
This is a big one. Because Google did NOT have a Java license, they had to avoid <ALL> of these patents. In this case, I believe it covers the concept of jar files and their internal format. More importantly, Even Microsoft avoided this. .NET Assemblies are a completely different ball-game from Java. Google appears to be getting a big big for it's britches in some respects.
On September 16, 2008, United States Patent No. 7,426,720, (“the '720 patent”)
23 entitled “System And Method For Dynamic Preloading Of Classes Through Memory Space
24 Cloning Of A Master Runtime System Process”
eg. They duplicated the "ClassLoader" architecture and methodology, all the way down to how it is laid out in memory and inspected.
On June 21, 2005, United States Patent No. 6,910,205, (“the '205 patent”) entitled
“Interpreting Functions Utilizing A Hybrid Of Virtual And Native Machine Instructions”
This refers most likely to the duplication of JNI.
This is actually quite similar to the MS scenario re. the MS JVM and J++; they had a license, made their own implementation, but they added a lot of things that violated the Java Standards Group with which compliance was part of the terms of the license. After their license was Revoked, J++ was gone. Poof. Dissappeared. They rearchitected their plan for the creation of their own Managed Memory architecture, the CLR, which has it's own methodologies and concepts. They were very careful to make sure they didn't step on Sun's toes on this.
The big difference is that I'm not even sure that Google had a license to begin with.
Why wasn't Google careful about this? There are only two reasons I can think of. Either Google is stupid, or they thought they could get away with it. I'm going to side with the latter.
i have 32 bit but my details say its 64 bit compatiable (im on laptop if that matters)
so is there anyway i can upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit (dosent matter if i have to buy it)
Please send me a link if you know how to or reply to this forum.
Yeah you would... The pride of having it. :3
But really, nothing performance wise as he was referring to.
People don't understand that this is not a chat room, it's a forum thus please use grammar, punctuation and spelling.
Asshole, when telling people to correct themselves, make sure you aren't being a total hypocrite and making mistakes yourself.
If you have a 64-bit processor (but 32-bit OS), you just need to install the 64-bit version of the OS. A bunch of companies didn't originally ship with 64-bit Windows because of compatibility issues early on.D
o you have the Windows install disc that came with the laptop? Or do you know someone else with a Windows install disc for the same version? You don't need to buy a separate license just to switch from 32-bit to 64-bit. Your license is valid for either. You just need to reformat your computer using the same version/disc and choose a 64-bit installation.
Don't you need 64-bit Java in order to use a FAR render distance in Minecraft? If so, the OP would need a 64-bit OS to have 64-bit JAVA.
Take... when 32-bit was new. There was a lot of noise about it. 32-bit! Oh the excitement. 386 was all the rage. It was faster at running 16-bit programs because it ran them just like it's predecessor, but at a higher clock speed, with more cache, and lower wait times.
When the 32-bit Processor really screamed of course was running 32-bit instructions. These didn't start getting utilized en masse until windows 95 came around, with the exception of "Enhanced mode" and a few games here and there.
The fact that Consumer versions of Windows x86 cannot use more than 4GB of memory is not even a factor in choosing which OS to use, IMO.
If you have a 64-bit CPU, you should be using a 64-bit system. Otherwise, like I said- you are painting yourself in a corner as now ALL your programs can only use 32-bit instructions. Sure- they run the 32-bit instruction faster than their 32-bit instruction-only predecessors, but again, the real power comes from actually utilizing their 64-bit capabilities; many of the newer instructions are 64-bit only, and therefore can only ever be used in 64-bit protected mode. 32-bit programs still run the same as they would on a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit OS, too.
The only thing people seem to be able to bring up re: memory size is that "Pointers are twice as large" as if this will somehow consume a lot of memory. The memory that pointers point at is almost always going to surpass the actual size of the pointers. It's like complaining that you have a pan with a full 1 foot handle when the pan itself is 12 feet in diameter either way.
Additionally, 64-bit Windows extends the Address space limitation of each process past 4GB; this matters regardless of whether you have that much memory or not.
As for you learning java, it does not matter. By the time you get around to actually using 64 bit java, you will by then be ready to upgrade.
I, on the other hand, would not bother to learn java, if you plan to do more then just create some simple mods and begin to learn new code.
Java is going to go the way of flash. It is out dated, it is a terrible mess to debug, and it is inefficiencies start to show through when you program something a little more then a simple video game.
Anyone can wonder why minecraft will run on xbox with C code, but will not run on a computer with twice the processing power in java. I understand that java, if written correctly is really solid, but who writes it correctly. I mean the motto for java is compile it once, debug it everywhere.
But the biggest reason to move away from java is Oracle. Anyone that wants to create a good software will, sooner or later, be sued by oracle. Oracle is the one and only reason you should move on from java, if the other reasons where good enough.
The entire purpose of Kernel Patch protection is to keep user-mode processes from having "low-level" information about the system. 32-bit windows doesn't have Kernel Patch protection at all. How this can be seen as making the 32-bit version "more secure" just because you don't know exactly what the x64 version does (because, you know, it's not like it's documented or anything, right?). Kernel patch protection prevents the kernel from being patched by malicious applications. Now, arguably, the only way a process can start patching the kernel is if it manages to inject a piece of software into Ring 0, at which point most boxes are considered "owned" but this sort of facility prevents it from completely owning a machine. This helps circumvent 64-bit variants of common rootkit infection vectors.
He doesn't say anything about learning Java, though. Isn't he "around to using 64-bit Java" right now as evidenced by his question to begin with?
Why? Oh wait here's the explanation.
I'm far from a Java apologist- hell I can't stand the language itself... but this is downright ****ing stupid. It's not "out-dated"- citation needed for that one- it's not at all difficult to debug, either- all the major IDE's have rather powerful debugging features including breakpoints, something that sometimes requires dropping into gdb to get with C.
The Xbox360 version of the game is written mostly in C#. it's not written in Java probably for the main reason that... well, Java isn't a supported language for the Xbox360. C# still runs within a similar managed-memory environment. I think some of the low-level requirements are done with C. Just like with the PC implementation with uses LWJGL which itself interfaces using JNI with the OpenGL C API. I don't know specifically what C++/CLI is used for in the MC XBox 360 version, though.
The Xbox 360 game was re-architected, from first principles for the purpose of running on the console; it wasn't merely a reimplementation of the exact same thing in C (and as mentioned about it doesn't use C anyway). Duke Nukem 64 required far less power than the PC variant, but again, it was designed from first-principles; Silverman's Build 3-D Engine was rewritten to take advantage of the set hardware constraints and capabilities of the system (The n64) as well as to take account limitations such as texture size; at the same time exploiting the fact that most I/O was no longer a major bottleneck because it was read from ROM. the xbox360 version of Minecraft no doubt followed a similar path, with the game re-architected to best take advantage of the capabilities guaranteed to be in every console.
"solid" is a bit vague in this context, isn't it? Besides, this applies for any other language. No programming language magically is always solid code. The only one I can think of off-hand that sort of encourages it is D, because it has built-in unit testing capabilities as part of the core language and compiler.
The actual motto is "Write once run anywhere" the reality is "Write once, test everywhere". For the most part it holds true to this claim. Minecraft runs on almost every Java system; the only place most platform-specific bugs crop up is in the C Interface libraries, particularly on Linux with LWJGL since it has that weird keypress bug.
While I agree, I disagree with the Reason. I regard Oracle with no more contempt than I do Sun Microsystems. Oracle sued Google for copy-pasting parts of the core Java API. how much was it? I don't know. I think it might have been an entire package, actually. google was not sued for USING the API, they were sued for copying the code in the API. The Java class library is available in source format, but it's use requires a license. Google didn't have that license to use Java tech, and were blatantly vindictive towards Oracle, essentially "we are google, we do whateva we want" type attitude, which, not surprisingly, Oracle did not like. Google sympathizers who could tell their own ass from a hole in the ground just conflate the issue by saying "OMG Google was sued for having/using a API" and spread constant FUD about the issue, such as saying that if you use Java you will get sued. Not the case. If you lift code from a given piece of software that has a license and then try to pass that code off under a different license, don't be surprised when said vendor takes issue with it.
@bc_programming- Glad at least someone in here knows what they're talking about.
@fel99- The guy had a point, but there's no need to start a flame war over something so minor. Also, being 13 years old and knowing basic grammar rules is frankly nothing to brag about. And your comment about whether Oracle sues people for making software with Java was pretty dumb; its a language and that's what you're supposed to do with it.
Not by reading news articles, but by reading the actual filed complaint. Some highlights:
eg. They cannot claim "clean room" reverse engineering a a 'la Phoenix technologies and IBM.
This is a big one. Because Google did NOT have a Java license, they had to avoid <ALL> of these patents. In this case, I believe it covers the concept of jar files and their internal format. More importantly, Even Microsoft avoided this. .NET Assemblies are a completely different ball-game from Java. Google appears to be getting a big big for it's britches in some respects.
eg. They duplicated the "ClassLoader" architecture and methodology, all the way down to how it is laid out in memory and inspected.
This refers most likely to the duplication of JNI.
This is actually quite similar to the MS scenario re. the MS JVM and J++; they had a license, made their own implementation, but they added a lot of things that violated the Java Standards Group with which compliance was part of the terms of the license. After their license was Revoked, J++ was gone. Poof. Dissappeared. They rearchitected their plan for the creation of their own Managed Memory architecture, the CLR, which has it's own methodologies and concepts. They were very careful to make sure they didn't step on Sun's toes on this.
The big difference is that I'm not even sure that Google had a license to begin with.
Why wasn't Google careful about this? There are only two reasons I can think of. Either Google is stupid, or they thought they could get away with it. I'm going to side with the latter.