So basically modders yet again get the short end of the sword with yet another major mod breaking update. All this "new" and "ground breaking" luncher brings to me is yet another major rewrite to my mods. Every update requires small re-write, but the last few have required extensive rewrites. This seems like it will be even worse. Furthermore downloading the development luncher, it is currently impossible to edit the minecraft jar (all edits are overwritten)
We get promiced an API literally nearly 2 years ago and all we get is empty promises of an APi that will likely be inadequate for the majority of complex mods. Why do we continue to do this while majong treat us like second class citizens.
You got "promised" an API by a guy who never worked on one and said as much you . Be happy they're working on getting one made now and suck it the hell up. Also your not MEANT to be using the new launcher if you need to edit the jar, it's for testing new crap, not for modding, so why the hell are you complaining? Can you just not be happy about anything?
I'm aware of reasons behind its delay, but I believe it is very possible for them to complete the engine updates during snapshots and release the API after the engine is complete - all in 1.6.
Well, seeing that certain things need to be implemented before they can work on others and that if you do too many engine changes, both the risk of bugs and number of potential bugs starts to skyrocket (as well as making it harder to figure out what broke what) I think that would be a bad idea.
Either way, it wouldn't make it take any faster to get the API out since it is all work they got to do anyway, it just means that game content for 1.6 would be held back and honestly, new game content is what sells new copies of the game, not mods. Believe it or not, but the modded minecraft community is actually not as big as you may think it is.
So basically modders yet again get the short end of the sword with yet another major mod breaking update. All this "new" and "ground breaking" luncher brings to me is yet another major rewrite to my mods. Every update requires small re-write, but the last few have required extensive rewrites. This seems like it will be even worse. Furthermore downloading the development luncher, it is currently impossible to edit the minecraft jar (all edits are overwritten)
We get promiced an API literally nearly 2 years ago and all we get is empty promises of an APi that will likely be inadequate for the majority of complex mods. Why do we continue to do this while majong treat us like second class citizens.
I don't understand this kind of complaint. All mod developers know that modding minecraft in its current state runs the risk of having your mod break with the next update. Not going into modding is fooling yourself. If you don't want to have to update around a game, then don't update your mods until the modding API is out, complaining at the Devs who are trying to make the game not break your mods isn't doing anyone any good and is making you look like an ass. Mojang does not owe the Modding community anything, they don't have to make their game not break your third party modification. No one is forcing you to mod.
Mojang's main priority for Minecraft is to 1) Fix bugs and 2) Provide additional content for those who bought their game as well as provide additional content to make their game more appealing to new buyers.
To stand their and complain at them is just stupid. "How dare the Mojang Devs break my mod in order to push out engine changes that are required in order to give me an API so that the game stops breaking, how dare they inconvenience my hobby!" sounds both really arrogant and needy.
Furthermore downloading the development luncher, it is currently impossible to edit the minecraft jar (all edits are overwritten)
Huh, it is kind of like the new developmental launcher is developmental with red text saying not all content is added, who would have guessed? It is almost like the system they talk about in this threads OP where you are able to modify the jar for modding reasons without the update overwriting isn't implemented yet, like they said, it almost like Dinnerbone has been having to field this question: https://twitter.com/...938437392609281
We get promiced an API literally nearly 2 years ago and all we get is empty promises of an APi that will likely be inadequate for the majority of complex mods. Why do we continue to do this while majong treat us like second class citizens.
Yes, and Notch apologized about this and admitted fully that he did not start the API as it was too big a project for him to handle. The job got pushed next onto Jeb who was suddenly in charge of the game and working by himself. Work didn't start until Dinnerbone, Grum, and EvilSeph were hired on. They have been busy at work, but has been stated in multiple places multiple times, the engine needs a lot of work to get in the state that an API would be feasible to push. As you are a coder, I would hope you of all people would understand that pushing an API onto an unfinished engine would be catastrophic and not worth anyone's time. They have been working on getting the engine ready for the API with pretty much every patch in the last year. The first major step was the code refactoring and the reason the last few patches have been really breaking mods more than usual is because they are hammering down as much of the engine as they can. It is growing pains, I am sorry that it inconveniences you, but again they don't have to push an API as much as you don't have to update your mods until the API is done.
I'm sure that the Dev's love to hear people give them crap and accuse them of crap when they are working to make a bunch of mod developers, a lot of whom seem very ungrateful that they are bothering to, life a little easier. And look, I am not trying to be down on you, I understand that it gets annoying have to rewrite large portions of your mods, but honestly modding is a hobby, if it is making you miserable, then stop for a bit, if fans of your mod can't understand that you need to take a break until the game becomes a little more stable because you are no longer having fun with your hobby, then they can go take a hike.
I never said anything about engine rewrites which if memory serves is what this update was suppose to bring, I agree those need to be changed. I do have a problem with completely changing the format of the game like they have that will mean that I have to yet again throw out most of the code and start from scratch. And this is all for something that really doesn't seem all that useful.
When I said about trying the developmental version, it was all for a test to see how it delt with a modified jar. Yes I know it is in development, but what it does is re-downloads the minecraft jar on each run. The only reason to do this is to sync with some online server. There is currently no way of setting up a custom version which I am sure will be developed. What will really be the determining factor is how this is actually handled. If it is basically a separate copy of the version folder, and allow for example the "mods" folder within, then there really is no issue. Anything else may require me to toss basically all the code, making what I have been working on for the past couple of months entirely redundant. I guess it will also depend on how forge handles it.
As for "they are working to make a bunch of mod developers", do you have a link where I can sign up? the only time I have heard about anything along these lines was a project on github that has not been updated in about 9 months (I assume they have another code base) and a discussion about a year ago at an entirely inappropriate time for me (it was something like 3 am).
As for suggesting to wait a few updates, I know for a fact that mod users will abuse any modder who does this (I have been on the receiving end of it).
Look it may completely blow over and not end up being as bad as I think. Maybe I should have waited until all of these features are available to voice my concerns. But seeing how it is suppose to be released sometime within the next month I am still sceptical.
On the other hand, the new launcher is now downloading the correct versions of lwjgl for linux 64 bit so at least they have fixed that bug
That's what they're working on atm. The old current launcher still works, despite the newer one running better and has the ability to switch snapshot & release versions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I also have a Playstation 3, along with the Xbox 360. I play Minecraft PC atm
I never said anything about engine rewrites which if memory serves is what this update was suppose to bring, I agree those need to be changed. I do have a problem with completely changing the format of the game like they have that will mean that I have to yet again throw out most of the code and start from scratch. And this is all for something that really doesn't seem all that useful.
The biggest breaks in format, from what I understand talking with other mod developers, have had to deal mostly with changes in the engine. I know that 1.5 had several changes in how rendering worked, causing a lot of rewrites. While I do not know for certain, I would bet pretty high that the changes to rendering were related to the rendering engine rewrite. Regardless, any major changes to any format is being done for the API, there is no reason to change formats for major parts of the game all willy nilly if it didn't have a good reason.
When I said about trying the developmental version, it was all for a test to see how it delt with a modified jar. Yes I know it is in development, but what it does is re-downloads the minecraft jar on each run. The only reason to do this is to sync with some online server. There is currently no way of setting up a custom version which I am sure will be developed. What will really be the determining factor is how this is actually handled. If it is basically a separate copy of the version folder, and allow for example the "mods" folder within, then there really is no issue. Anything else may require me to toss basically all the code, making what I have been working on for the past couple of months entirely redundant. I guess it will also depend on how forge handles it.
The OP goes into this vary issue, it was one of the things they addressed. It is planned for Jars to be stored in a folder called versions, each update to minecraft would have its own folder in versions (1.5.1, 1.5.2, 1.6, etc). Mods that require modify the jar would have their own folder inside versions, so you would have a folder called something like Mine And Blade and inside that would be a copy of the minecraft jar that is modified however you needed it. That jar will not be touched by updates to minecraft and the client selects which version of the jar they wish to use. I assume they have a system planed that allows for multiple modded jars to be used. Again this is not a system that has been pushed out yet since it has not been finished, which is why there is no way for you to currently modify the jar. From the sound of it, it is something we will probably start seeing in about a week or at least hear solid details on how this works. It is too early to get in a huff about how this system works because we know very little detail outside of the Dev team asking mod developers to be patient.
As for "they are working to make a bunch of mod developers", do you have a link where I can sign up? the only time I have heard about anything along these lines was a project on github that has not been updated in about 9 months (I assume they have another code base) and a discussion about a year ago at an entirely inappropriate time for me (it was something like 3 am).
Not sure what part you are quoting here, may have misunderstood me. I do know that the github was something that was stopped when they had a developmental meeting to discuss how they were going to tackle the API and what needed to be done with it. They probably moved to keeping this somewhere else for the time being.
As for suggesting to wait a few updates, I know for a fact that mod users will abuse any modder who does this (I have been on the receiving end of it).
This is my point exactly because there are several mod developers who are doing just this to the devs, including you in your early post. As someone who has gotten crap from mod users for not getting your stuff updated when the user wants you to get updated, I would expect you to understand how ironic it is when you turn around and do the same thing to the minecraft devs.
Again, people need to settle down and wait until solid information and a useable version of these features are out, everything is in a heavily WIP version right now and the majority of the features, while planned, have yet to be implemented.
One year one and we have a "preliminary step" towards the modding API. It seems more and more likely that we'll have Half Life 3 before it.
This isn't the "preliminary step". That would have been massive 1.3.1 update where they did the first major code refactoring Minecraft has ever had. Every major patch since then has had something included in it that was needed for the API to be done, 1.6 is more like the last few steps before they would be ready for the API. :/
So... Mod API is coming soon. Not really soon, but a few months soon. And I love being able to change versions. I hope I can play Alpha through the new launcher. If that happens, BEST. LAUNCHER. EVER! But I hope it's like where you have sub-folders, so you can choose which version. So there's Beta and inside are the version, and Full with those version in it, etc. But, they did say that it will be possible to open mods through the launcher, so maybe someone else will put the versions in there. Or maybe, there will be a launcher mod for it. OMG! DUMBEST IDEA EVER!
The biggest breaks in format, from what I understand talking with other mod developers, have had to deal mostly with changes in the engine. I know that 1.5 had several changes in how rendering worked, causing a lot of rewrites. While I do not know for certain, I would bet pretty high that the changes to rendering were related to the rendering engine rewrite. Regardless, any major changes to any format is being done for the API, there is no reason to change formats for major parts of the game all willy nilly if it didn't have a good reason.
Yeah the big thing was changing how items/blocks are rendered. Lucky I had very few items in the current re-write and have gotten to know the item rendering code better than the back of my hand so it wasn't such a blow to me. Others have been quite crippled by it.
As a side note, I believe there was also suppose to be a lighting engine re-write on the horizon (I thought that was supose to be 1.6 has it changed?), yes this could also break mods.
The OP goes into this vary issue, it was one of the things they addressed. It is planned for Jars to be stored in a folder called versions, each update to minecraft would have its own folder in versions (1.5.1, 1.5.2, 1.6, etc). Mods that require modify the jar would have their own folder inside versions, so you would have a folder called something like Mine And Blade and inside that would be a copy of the minecraft jar that is modified however you needed it. That jar will not be touched by updates to minecraft and the client selects which version of the jar they wish to use. I assume they have a system planed that allows for multiple modded jars to be used. Again this is not a system that has been pushed out yet since it has not been finished, which is why there is no way for you to currently modify the jar. From the sound of it, it is something we will probably start seeing in about a week or at least hear solid details on how this works. It is too early to get in a huff about how this system works because we know very little detail outside of the Dev team asking mod developers to be patient.
Yeah I did read the OP, here is the quoted text
The new version of Minecraft is expected to be compartmentalized. Instead of having "Minecraft" as an entire game to modified, there will be a "core" Minecraft - essentially, the game's engine and crucial data - which all things will be built upon. Jar files which determine how the game runs will have their own locations, called "Versions", which will be selected from the new launcher. This includes everything from actual vanilla versions of Minecraft to the most complex mods imaginable. For example, if you were to install a mod called "Baconcraft" - which involved adding modified files to the minecraft.jar file, custom folders, assets, and textures - you could place it in a Version folder called "Baconcraft", and select it from the launcher when you started the game.
What I took from this is there is 1 jar for the engine, then many to determine how the game should run on the engine.But what happens when you need to edit things on both?
Now looking into the current state of the launcher, the "core minecraft engine" is basically just texture packs, lang files and sounds (which really isn't an engine). Which really seems like a bit of mis-information in the OP. If it does stay like this, then really no problems here and really shouldn't be too much of a burden. I also want to point out that the only reason I know this is because I did what others have told me I wasn't aloud to do, and that is download and test it myself.
Interestingly it looks like saves are also shared across versions
As for "there is no way for you to currently modify the jar", that is only because they wrote it to sync.
Not sure what part you are quoting here, may have misunderstood me. I do know that the github was something that was stopped when they had a developmental meeting to discuss how they were going to tackle the API and what needed to be done with it. They probably moved to keeping this somewhere else for the time being.
I quoted directly from your post to me, if I misunderstood sorry. But in any case, there really hasn't to my knowledge been much in the way of discussions with modders. Really seems like either they won't bother or it is still very far of (I actually hope for the 2nd)
This is my point exactly because there are several mod developers who are doing just this to the devs, including you in your early post. As someone who has gotten crap from mod users for not getting your stuff updated when the user wants you to get updated, I would expect you to understand how ironic it is when you turn around and do the same thing to the minecraft devs.
I voiced my concerns here, didn't constantly insult the devs personally, very big difference.
TBH I admit that I probably opened my mouth a bit to early and should have played with it a bit more (even though according to wiimanclassic I am not aloud to do this) and for that I am sorry. I am still worried that what I have been doing for the last couple of months will be for nothing, but will wait it out until it is more developed.
Again, people need to settle down and wait until solid information and a useable version of these features are out, everything is in a heavily WIP version right now and the majority of the features, while planned, have yet to be implemented.
I guess I thought it was in a more usable state to begin with (them releaseing a snapshot and all). It would also be good to get some more solid information, even some of the stuff in the OP doesn't make too much sense and may not be 100% correct (eg what I pointed out above). Probably just miscommunication somewhere.
I was also under the impression from the technical description that it was set up in a way that you can have a single mod enabled at once (getting this from the download source feature). Again this doesn't make sense and largely dismissing it until we see a more polished version. But it goes to show that more details should be released.
So... Mod API is coming soon. Not really soon, but a few months soon. And I love being able to change versions. I hope I can play Alpha through the new launcher. If that happens, BEST. LAUNCHER. EVER! But I hope it's like where you have sub-folders, so you can choose which version. So there's Beta and inside are the version, and Full with those version in it, etc. But, they did say that it will be possible to open mods through the launcher, so maybe someone else will put the versions in there. Or maybe, there will be a launcher mod for it. OMG! DUMBEST IDEA EVER!
I wouldn't even say it is comming soon, a few months actually sounds optimistic.
As a side note, I believe there was also suppose to be a lighting engine re-write on the horizon (I thought that was supose to be 1.6 has it changed?), yes this could also break mods.
The light engine, according to Dinnerbone, has been rewritten several times. The issue is that there are several lighting bugs that have been prevalent between rewrites of the engine because the fixes for them make a massive hit in performance. I have heard talk that the update to the rendering engine might help with this, but for the most part, both Dinnerbone and Grum have worked together on rewrites. Dinnerbone's twitter account has been very helpful with keeping track of things such as lighting. I am unsure if this means if the rendering engine will push another rewrite of the lighting engine, they may instead try pushing the fixes they have stored for the lighting engines that have not been released because of the performance issues.
As for "there is no way for you to currently modify the jar", that is only because they wrote it to sync.
What I am going to guess, is the reason it is set up like this outside of the whole versions system not being done, is mainly to hold off on bad bug reports. By making sure that the jar being used is the the 1.6 snapshot or the 1.5.1 jar, the dev team puts a limit on outside factors that could cause false issues.
I quoted directly from your post to me, if I misunderstood sorry. But in any case, there really hasn't to my knowledge been much in the way of discussions with modders. Really seems like either they won't bother or it is still very far of (I actually hope for the 2nd).
Misunderstanding. As for talking with modders, I know that some time last year the devs invited a lot of the "big name" mod developers in for a talk, it wasn't something that was really publicized nor talked about after the fact, but it came up a few times. Grum from the dev team, who is one of the least vocal guys from Mojang but does a lot of the engine stuff in the background and is one of the main guys on the API team from what I know, has done a lot of communication with some mod developers. Mostly this was through interacting with the Forge folks. In one of the seasons of Direwolf20's Forger server videos he is actually seen playing on the server with the other mod developers. Again it is something that isn't talked about much, be it because of a NDA or something else, who knows. Again I agree and think that when it comes time to start working on the API proper, they will start being more open with the community.
I voiced my concerns here, didn't constantly insult the devs personally, very big difference.
TBH I admit that I probably opened my mouth a bit to early and should have played with it a bit more (even though according to wiimanclassic I am not aloud to do this) and for that I am sorry. I am still worried that what I have been doing for the last couple of months will be for nothing, but will wait it out until it is more developed.
For me, personally, it was "So basically modders yet again get the short end of the sword with yet another major mod breaking update." That triggered me. While I understand that it is your opinion, the wording did set a tone for reading the rest of your post. The post came off as bitter and angry, which put a lot of emphasis on certain sentences. Whether that was intended or not I do not know, but that was how I (and apparently at least one other) interpret what you wrote by your choice of phrasing. Again, I understand how frustrating dealing with minecraft patches can be, especially with how horrible the user community is when it comes to mods. I apologize for jumping the shark and making an example from your post, I've been doing a lot of arguing over the past month with others about whether or not the dev team is actually working and it starts to fray at the nerves a little.
I guess I thought it was in a more usable state to begin with (them releaseing a snapshot and all). It would also be good to get some more solid information, even some of the stuff in the OP doesn't make too much sense and may not be 100% correct (eg what I pointed out above). Probably just miscommunication somewhere.
While the jar snapshot is rather stable, if still early in development, the launcher is still very very early. Dinnerbone has been slowly pushing new features into the launcher since its first test launch. There have been several points where major bugs were found that required the launcher to be re-downloaded, however we seem to now be at the point where Dinnerbone is able to silently push updates to the launcher throughout the day as he gets things finished. I know that Grum is working with him on this, so I get the feeling that they are both tackling different parts of the launcher, and pushing them when they are ready, but they are pushing them one at a time to test for bugs. While this means the launcher is progressing at a slow pace, it is good because I'd rather have to make sure everything is working as intended. It is the same reason why I do not agree with people saying they should hold all updates until they have everything ready for an API because that is too many changes to push to the public at once, too many new variables for too many new potential bugs.
I wouldn't even say it is comming soon, a few months actually sounds optimistic.
Agreed, I would say it would be sometime after 1.7. The dev's have been doing a pretty good pace of a new patch every 3-4 months now (excluding time spent at conventions, various corporate stuff or fund raisers), I would put 1.6's launcher at the end of May, beginning of June at the latest. The rendering update will either be a standalone update after that or it will be packaged with 1.7, with 1.7 probably releasing around Sep-Oct. If that is the case, you would see the API early next spring at the earliest. Again, I personally don't like putting time tables on these things, let them get it right the first time, save us all headache if the API is broken after release.
I do too, but I have to wonder, isn’t this almost exactly like MultiMC (with the exception of the Forge button) thereby making it practically obsolete?
Not at all. MultiMC is great because it also makes installing and removing mods a breeze. This new launcher is basically just a ghetto version of it without the most useful feature.
I just hope that it doesn't mean all current mods will have to be completely rewritten from scratch like some had to be for the 1.3.X update which turned SSP into SMP on the local machine.
Why? They've never said it was going to be in 1.6 and have instead repeated over and over that there is engine related stuff they've needed to fix including saying that there is at least one more engine related fix after 1.6 at that. The user base is the one who keeps attaching the API to every new patch, whose to say it will be part of a patch and not just released separately anyway.
disinformation, we'll never see a modding api, they keep sayin its coming soon, but they be lyin thru their teeth.
it was actually said it wouldnt be in 1.5, but might be in later versions like 1.6 or 1.7, mauled.
i be with crazydrift on this one
Good job reading into rumor mills, they've haven't given a time frame for when the API will be out in a long time now and have openly stated that they are working on fixes and rewrites to the game engine that are needed to be done before the API is out and you can see those changes yourself in each patch.
I'm not liking this at all. Mojang, when will you realize we just want actual mod support? Look at Magic Launcher, please. If players can do it, why can't you? Please just add a function to the launcher to add mods just like Magic Launcher does. Hell, ask the creator of Magic Launcher to help you with that new launcher of yours. Just, please, give us something to automatically let us add mods and remove mods.
I'm a little confused. Does this mean that with the new launcher if I have a 1.2.5 mod I can use it with 1.6, or what?
No, however it will be potentially (depends on a lot of factors for jars that old and we don't have a testable version of this system yet) possible to switch between your modified 1.2.5 jar and vanilla 1.6 or any other modified jar you have without having to manually change the installs. You will be able to select it from the launcher's main menu.
Mod compatibility across versions will happen at a later point, but I doubt you would be able to backdate mods to jar's older than that point. So let us say hypothetically that the API comes out at version X.XX, mods updated to that point will be compatible with versions newer than X.XX but probably not mods older than X.XX. However this is a bit of a ways off still and has not much to do with the new client.
You got "promised" an API by a guy who never worked on one and said as much you . Be happy they're working on getting one made now and suck it the hell up. Also your not MEANT to be using the new launcher if you need to edit the jar, it's for testing new crap, not for modding, so why the hell are you complaining? Can you just not be happy about anything?
Well, seeing that certain things need to be implemented before they can work on others and that if you do too many engine changes, both the risk of bugs and number of potential bugs starts to skyrocket (as well as making it harder to figure out what broke what) I think that would be a bad idea.
Either way, it wouldn't make it take any faster to get the API out since it is all work they got to do anyway, it just means that game content for 1.6 would be held back and honestly, new game content is what sells new copies of the game, not mods. Believe it or not, but the modded minecraft community is actually not as big as you may think it is.
I don't understand this kind of complaint. All mod developers know that modding minecraft in its current state runs the risk of having your mod break with the next update. Not going into modding is fooling yourself. If you don't want to have to update around a game, then don't update your mods until the modding API is out, complaining at the Devs who are trying to make the game not break your mods isn't doing anyone any good and is making you look like an ass. Mojang does not owe the Modding community anything, they don't have to make their game not break your third party modification. No one is forcing you to mod.
Mojang's main priority for Minecraft is to 1) Fix bugs and 2) Provide additional content for those who bought their game as well as provide additional content to make their game more appealing to new buyers.
To stand their and complain at them is just stupid. "How dare the Mojang Devs break my mod in order to push out engine changes that are required in order to give me an API so that the game stops breaking, how dare they inconvenience my hobby!" sounds both really arrogant and needy.
Huh, it is kind of like the new developmental launcher is developmental with red text saying not all content is added, who would have guessed? It is almost like the system they talk about in this threads OP where you are able to modify the jar for modding reasons without the update overwriting isn't implemented yet, like they said, it almost like Dinnerbone has been having to field this question: https://twitter.com/...938437392609281
Yes, and Notch apologized about this and admitted fully that he did not start the API as it was too big a project for him to handle. The job got pushed next onto Jeb who was suddenly in charge of the game and working by himself. Work didn't start until Dinnerbone, Grum, and EvilSeph were hired on. They have been busy at work, but has been stated in multiple places multiple times, the engine needs a lot of work to get in the state that an API would be feasible to push. As you are a coder, I would hope you of all people would understand that pushing an API onto an unfinished engine would be catastrophic and not worth anyone's time. They have been working on getting the engine ready for the API with pretty much every patch in the last year. The first major step was the code refactoring and the reason the last few patches have been really breaking mods more than usual is because they are hammering down as much of the engine as they can. It is growing pains, I am sorry that it inconveniences you, but again they don't have to push an API as much as you don't have to update your mods until the API is done.
I'm sure that the Dev's love to hear people give them crap and accuse them of crap when they are working to make a bunch of mod developers, a lot of whom seem very ungrateful that they are bothering to, life a little easier. And look, I am not trying to be down on you, I understand that it gets annoying have to rewrite large portions of your mods, but honestly modding is a hobby, if it is making you miserable, then stop for a bit, if fans of your mod can't understand that you need to take a break until the game becomes a little more stable because you are no longer having fun with your hobby, then they can go take a hike.
Everyone needs to just chill out. :/
I never said anything about engine rewrites which if memory serves is what this update was suppose to bring, I agree those need to be changed. I do have a problem with completely changing the format of the game like they have that will mean that I have to yet again throw out most of the code and start from scratch. And this is all for something that really doesn't seem all that useful.
When I said about trying the developmental version, it was all for a test to see how it delt with a modified jar. Yes I know it is in development, but what it does is re-downloads the minecraft jar on each run. The only reason to do this is to sync with some online server. There is currently no way of setting up a custom version which I am sure will be developed. What will really be the determining factor is how this is actually handled. If it is basically a separate copy of the version folder, and allow for example the "mods" folder within, then there really is no issue. Anything else may require me to toss basically all the code, making what I have been working on for the past couple of months entirely redundant. I guess it will also depend on how forge handles it.
As for "they are working to make a bunch of mod developers", do you have a link where I can sign up? the only time I have heard about anything along these lines was a project on github that has not been updated in about 9 months (I assume they have another code base) and a discussion about a year ago at an entirely inappropriate time for me (it was something like 3 am).
As for suggesting to wait a few updates, I know for a fact that mod users will abuse any modder who does this (I have been on the receiving end of it).
Look it may completely blow over and not end up being as bad as I think. Maybe I should have waited until all of these features are available to voice my concerns. But seeing how it is suppose to be released sometime within the next month I am still sceptical.
On the other hand, the new launcher is now downloading the correct versions of lwjgl for linux 64 bit so at least they have fixed that bug
That's what they're working on atm. The old current launcher still works, despite the newer one running better and has the ability to switch snapshot & release versions.
The biggest breaks in format, from what I understand talking with other mod developers, have had to deal mostly with changes in the engine. I know that 1.5 had several changes in how rendering worked, causing a lot of rewrites. While I do not know for certain, I would bet pretty high that the changes to rendering were related to the rendering engine rewrite. Regardless, any major changes to any format is being done for the API, there is no reason to change formats for major parts of the game all willy nilly if it didn't have a good reason.
The OP goes into this vary issue, it was one of the things they addressed. It is planned for Jars to be stored in a folder called versions, each update to minecraft would have its own folder in versions (1.5.1, 1.5.2, 1.6, etc). Mods that require modify the jar would have their own folder inside versions, so you would have a folder called something like Mine And Blade and inside that would be a copy of the minecraft jar that is modified however you needed it. That jar will not be touched by updates to minecraft and the client selects which version of the jar they wish to use. I assume they have a system planed that allows for multiple modded jars to be used. Again this is not a system that has been pushed out yet since it has not been finished, which is why there is no way for you to currently modify the jar. From the sound of it, it is something we will probably start seeing in about a week or at least hear solid details on how this works. It is too early to get in a huff about how this system works because we know very little detail outside of the Dev team asking mod developers to be patient.
Not sure what part you are quoting here, may have misunderstood me. I do know that the github was something that was stopped when they had a developmental meeting to discuss how they were going to tackle the API and what needed to be done with it. They probably moved to keeping this somewhere else for the time being.
This is my point exactly because there are several mod developers who are doing just this to the devs, including you in your early post. As someone who has gotten crap from mod users for not getting your stuff updated when the user wants you to get updated, I would expect you to understand how ironic it is when you turn around and do the same thing to the minecraft devs.
Again, people need to settle down and wait until solid information and a useable version of these features are out, everything is in a heavily WIP version right now and the majority of the features, while planned, have yet to be implemented.
This isn't the "preliminary step". That would have been massive 1.3.1 update where they did the first major code refactoring Minecraft has ever had. Every major patch since then has had something included in it that was needed for the API to be done, 1.6 is more like the last few steps before they would be ready for the API. :/
Yeah the big thing was changing how items/blocks are rendered. Lucky I had very few items in the current re-write and have gotten to know the item rendering code better than the back of my hand so it wasn't such a blow to me. Others have been quite crippled by it.
As a side note, I believe there was also suppose to be a lighting engine re-write on the horizon (I thought that was supose to be 1.6 has it changed?), yes this could also break mods.
Yeah I did read the OP, here is the quoted text
What I took from this is there is 1 jar for the engine, then many to determine how the game should run on the engine.But what happens when you need to edit things on both?
Now looking into the current state of the launcher, the "core minecraft engine" is basically just texture packs, lang files and sounds (which really isn't an engine). Which really seems like a bit of mis-information in the OP. If it does stay like this, then really no problems here and really shouldn't be too much of a burden. I also want to point out that the only reason I know this is because I did what others have told me I wasn't aloud to do, and that is download and test it myself.
Interestingly it looks like saves are also shared across versions
As for "there is no way for you to currently modify the jar", that is only because they wrote it to sync.
I quoted directly from your post to me, if I misunderstood sorry. But in any case, there really hasn't to my knowledge been much in the way of discussions with modders. Really seems like either they won't bother or it is still very far of (I actually hope for the 2nd)
I voiced my concerns here, didn't constantly insult the devs personally, very big difference.
TBH I admit that I probably opened my mouth a bit to early and should have played with it a bit more (even though according to wiimanclassic I am not aloud to do this) and for that I am sorry. I am still worried that what I have been doing for the last couple of months will be for nothing, but will wait it out until it is more developed.
I guess I thought it was in a more usable state to begin with (them releaseing a snapshot and all). It would also be good to get some more solid information, even some of the stuff in the OP doesn't make too much sense and may not be 100% correct (eg what I pointed out above). Probably just miscommunication somewhere.
I was also under the impression from the technical description that it was set up in a way that you can have a single mod enabled at once (getting this from the download source feature). Again this doesn't make sense and largely dismissing it until we see a more polished version. But it goes to show that more details should be released.
I wouldn't even say it is comming soon, a few months actually sounds optimistic.
The light engine, according to Dinnerbone, has been rewritten several times. The issue is that there are several lighting bugs that have been prevalent between rewrites of the engine because the fixes for them make a massive hit in performance. I have heard talk that the update to the rendering engine might help with this, but for the most part, both Dinnerbone and Grum have worked together on rewrites. Dinnerbone's twitter account has been very helpful with keeping track of things such as lighting. I am unsure if this means if the rendering engine will push another rewrite of the lighting engine, they may instead try pushing the fixes they have stored for the lighting engines that have not been released because of the performance issues.
What I am going to guess, is the reason it is set up like this outside of the whole versions system not being done, is mainly to hold off on bad bug reports. By making sure that the jar being used is the the 1.6 snapshot or the 1.5.1 jar, the dev team puts a limit on outside factors that could cause false issues.
Misunderstanding. As for talking with modders, I know that some time last year the devs invited a lot of the "big name" mod developers in for a talk, it wasn't something that was really publicized nor talked about after the fact, but it came up a few times. Grum from the dev team, who is one of the least vocal guys from Mojang but does a lot of the engine stuff in the background and is one of the main guys on the API team from what I know, has done a lot of communication with some mod developers. Mostly this was through interacting with the Forge folks. In one of the seasons of Direwolf20's Forger server videos he is actually seen playing on the server with the other mod developers. Again it is something that isn't talked about much, be it because of a NDA or something else, who knows. Again I agree and think that when it comes time to start working on the API proper, they will start being more open with the community.
For me, personally, it was "So basically modders yet again get the short end of the sword with yet another major mod breaking update." That triggered me. While I understand that it is your opinion, the wording did set a tone for reading the rest of your post. The post came off as bitter and angry, which put a lot of emphasis on certain sentences. Whether that was intended or not I do not know, but that was how I (and apparently at least one other) interpret what you wrote by your choice of phrasing. Again, I understand how frustrating dealing with minecraft patches can be, especially with how horrible the user community is when it comes to mods. I apologize for jumping the shark and making an example from your post, I've been doing a lot of arguing over the past month with others about whether or not the dev team is actually working and it starts to fray at the nerves a little.
While the jar snapshot is rather stable, if still early in development, the launcher is still very very early. Dinnerbone has been slowly pushing new features into the launcher since its first test launch. There have been several points where major bugs were found that required the launcher to be re-downloaded, however we seem to now be at the point where Dinnerbone is able to silently push updates to the launcher throughout the day as he gets things finished. I know that Grum is working with him on this, so I get the feeling that they are both tackling different parts of the launcher, and pushing them when they are ready, but they are pushing them one at a time to test for bugs. While this means the launcher is progressing at a slow pace, it is good because I'd rather have to make sure everything is working as intended. It is the same reason why I do not agree with people saying they should hold all updates until they have everything ready for an API because that is too many changes to push to the public at once, too many new variables for too many new potential bugs.
Agreed, I would say it would be sometime after 1.7. The dev's have been doing a pretty good pace of a new patch every 3-4 months now (excluding time spent at conventions, various corporate stuff or fund raisers), I would put 1.6's launcher at the end of May, beginning of June at the latest. The rendering update will either be a standalone update after that or it will be packaged with 1.7, with 1.7 probably releasing around Sep-Oct. If that is the case, you would see the API early next spring at the earliest. Again, I personally don't like putting time tables on these things, let them get it right the first time, save us all headache if the API is broken after release.
No, it won't download and run in 1.6 from the old launcher, then get the new launcher or not.
Not at all. MultiMC is great because it also makes installing and removing mods a breeze. This new launcher is basically just a ghetto version of it without the most useful feature.
Why? They've never said it was going to be in 1.6 and have instead repeated over and over that there is engine related stuff they've needed to fix including saying that there is at least one more engine related fix after 1.6 at that. The user base is the one who keeps attaching the API to every new patch, whose to say it will be part of a patch and not just released separately anyway.
it was actually said it wouldnt be in 1.5, but might be in later versions like 1.6 or 1.7, mauled.
i be with crazydrift on this one
Good job reading into rumor mills, they've haven't given a time frame for when the API will be out in a long time now and have openly stated that they are working on fixes and rewrites to the game engine that are needed to be done before the API is out and you can see those changes yourself in each patch.
But no, go ahead and be angry.
But they are?
No, however it will be potentially (depends on a lot of factors for jars that old and we don't have a testable version of this system yet) possible to switch between your modified 1.2.5 jar and vanilla 1.6 or any other modified jar you have without having to manually change the installs. You will be able to select it from the launcher's main menu.
Mod compatibility across versions will happen at a later point, but I doubt you would be able to backdate mods to jar's older than that point. So let us say hypothetically that the API comes out at version X.XX, mods updated to that point will be compatible with versions newer than X.XX but probably not mods older than X.XX. However this is a bit of a ways off still and has not much to do with the new client.