Decided to try out the Curse Client snapshot loader, and when I went to download the program it stated that it won't affect game performance.. Totally untrue. My pc instantly started using about 6x as much of my CPU as Minecraft would normally, lagging quite a lot currently.
I suggest that if anyone wants to test snapshots, just backup your saves and use the .jar download instead. Curse Client is complete crap.
Yes I have been waiting for this snapshot for a long time! Also it has so many bug fixes. That would help a lot plus with the lighting bug being fixed that annoyed me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am a angel, I shall disperse all demons from you.
I may be a angel, but that doesn't mean I have evil in me.
I'm not like any other angels, I posses all powers you can imagine.
Why?
It's fine as it is now.
If you're not able to get enough bonemeal than you're doing something wrong...
It was fine before, but then it was tinkered with for a problem that didn't exist. I still have more than enough bonemeal, but now I have to randomly right-click the same square between 2-3 times now (instead of just once before), but why? In what way has this enhanced or bettered the game?
I would love to hear a strong argument for why the game is better now because of this change, and how the game was suffering before without it.
We said yo mojang please! correct illumination bugs, make minecraft don't depend of Java, we need better performance for people who have a low range PC, in this new snapshot minecraft GOES SO BAD! HORRIBLE PERFORMANCE! in the 1.4.6 minecraft run on my PC at 180 FPS in this snapshot minecraft run at 30 FPS and 60 FPS.... i have medium range PC and i buy minecraft i need minecraft with a good performance or i need my money back....
It was fine before, but then it was tinkered with for a problem that didn't exist. I still have more than enough bonemeal, but now I have to randomly right-click the same square between 2-3 times now (instead of just once before), but why? In what way has this enhanced or bettered the game?
I would love to hear a strong argument for why the game is better now because of this change, and how the game was suffering before without it.
The game is better because now you can't have insta-farms, therefore adding a slight bit of difficulty to Survival (if any at all.. I still have a surplus of bones)
Anything that makes the game take longer or more difficult is better. Nobody wants to play an easy game!
Plants aren't machines. You wouldn't expect every single plant to need exactly the same amount of fertilizer to reach the same state of growth every time, especially not if it is just one little piece of fertilizer.
I wouldn't expect to be able to punch a plant with my fists and have 0-3 seeds and a single unit of wheat to pop out either. I don't expect anything in Minecraft to behave just like it would in real life; I understand that it is a game, not a simulator. I expect games to be fun, and I expect those who develop games to understand what makes a game fun, and not to arbitrarily alter these games without that focus in mind.
If Mojang has taken on some new initiative to make Minecraft more realistic, where each game action is to be held up to some sort of standard based on real world logic, I am certainly unaware of it. That seems to be the basis behind why you support the alterations to bonemeal, since, as you have described, the manner in which in-game plants respond to fertilizer/bonemeal does not accurately reflect how plants in the real world respond, and thus the change is warranted.
It seems to me a little bit overpowered to get the results of 15 minutes, in which you can easily do other useful things instead (for example playing the game), instantly. Three to six times. By killing one single skeleton.
How long does it take to kill "one single skeleton"? Two hits with a stone sword or better I believe will take them out (on Hard difficulty). I imagine it'd be fairly easy to swing a couple times in one second, so one second of actually attacking with your sword, and however long it takes you to run from your current location, when you decide "I want to kill a skeleton", to where the nearest skeleton is. With this new system, where you'd need to kill an addition 1-2 skeletons for the same effect or "power", that would maybe increase this total time from maybe 10 to 30 seconds? I suppose that time frame would be much more in line with your comfort level in regards to Minecraft's expected cohesion with reality?
And in regards to being "overpowered", what sort of consequences were there for this previously enjoyed, but clearly excessive, level of power? After all, when something is "overpowered", in regards to games, there is usually a corresponding adverse effect on the intended challenges the game is supposed to impose on the player. I didn't realize that Minecraft was some deep role-playing game, where extra attention needs to be paid to each and every game mechanic, as to not upset the delicate balance of risk vs. reward.
The 5 people out there who actually use bonemeal for their wheat (for whatever reason) won't suffer now because they need the doubled amount of bonemeal. Vegetables grow very quickly on their own, even with a relatively small farm you will have more than enough. And trees need 2-7 units of bonemeal, which seems fair considering all the ressources you get from one single tree. But I think I already said all these thing on the 13w05a thread.
You continue to show why this change was unnecessary with your exaggeration of how few would be impacted by it. My concern is that this may indeed be a new direction the current developers are considering going with Minecraft. What will be the next arbitrary change that doesn't serve to make the game more enjoyable, and what about the one after that? And so on....
Perhaps there is a "realism", or "tedium" mod out there already that caters to those who like these sorts of changes. Are you aware of such a mod, and does it have a large following? If these changes are wanted by a large number of Minecraft users, and the developers at Mojang want to incorporate this into vanilla MC, then perhaps it would be best to incorporate this into the game as a toggleable option at world creation. As it stands now, it appears that these forced changes aren't being well received by a large percentage of current Minecraft users.
The game is better because now you can't have insta-farms, therefore adding a slight bit of difficulty to Survival (if any at all.. I still have a surplus of bones)
You can't? So holding down the right mouse button, and consuming 2-3 pieces of bonemeal in less than a second, as opposed to the previous one piece consumed in also less than a second has made "insta-farms" (which I can't be certain what your definition of that is) unattainable?
Anything that makes the game take longer or more difficult is better. Nobody wants to play an easy game!
Perhaps they should just make a tenfold increase in ALL block mining times then? Whereas currently, with a diamond pickaxe, it takes 0.4 seconds to mine a single cube of cobblestone, but using your "longer is better" approach, jacking that up to 4 seconds per block is an improvement, right? After all, holding my right mouse button down for 4 seconds definitely puts more stress, and therefore is "harder", on the middle finger of my mouse hand. And if that really is an improvement, why stop there? Why not 20 times, or make every block take a full minute to mine?
Although I'm not sure if it's clearly defined, there is an obvious difference between unnecessary tedium (which I gave an example of above) and "difficulty".
You can't? So holding down the right mouse button, and consuming 2-3 pieces of bonemeal in less than a second, as opposed to the previous one piece consumed in also less than a second has made "insta-farms" (which I can't be certain what your definition of that is) unattainable?
Perhaps they should just make a tenfold increase in ALL block mining times then? Whereas currently, with a diamond pickaxe, it takes 0.4 seconds to mine a single cube of cobblestone, but using your "longer is better" approach, jacking that up to 4 seconds per block is an improvement, right? After all, holding my right mouse button down for 4 seconds definitely puts more stress, and therefore is "harder", on the middle finger of my mouse hand. And if that really is an improvement, why stop there? Why not 20 times, or make every block take a full minute to mine?
Although I'm not sure if it's clearly defined, there is an obvious difference between unnecessary tedium (which I gave an example of above) and "difficulty".
I'm not talking about artificial time like that. I'm talking about how you don't get enough bonemeal to grow a whole farm in one night anymore. Is it REALLY that bad that you now have to go to your double chest full of bones for once?
I've been wishing for Survival to be harder since it came out. Yes, it was bad before. 1 bonemeal to instantly yield a crop? That makes it too easy.
I was actually hoping for a situation where bonemeal only increased growth speed, and it didn't stack.
That would be awesome. However, if you want to see a Reddit suggestion plummet in popularity, suggest ANYTHING that does anything to Bonemeal other than make it more powerful. It's sad.
I've been wishing for Survival to be harder since it came out. Yes, it was bad before. 1 bonemeal to instantly yield a crop? That makes it too easy.
One of the reasons I disagree with you (about bonemeal specifically) is because "yielding a crop" is not an overly powerful result, even if done instantly (instead of just shy of instantly, how the current system is). So you use 3 bonemeal to instantly yield 3 pieces of wheat, and what do you have? You have one piece of bread, that doesn't have much saturation, and doesn't give much restoration to your food bar: big whoop. It doesn't instantly make melons or pumpkins, just the stalk. It does give you instant carrot(s) and potatoes, but again, I don't find "instant" carrots and potatoes a particularly powerful tool in this game. If it somehow made getting diamonds much faster, or getting levels for enchanting much faster, or helped you attain any powerful, scarce resource much quicker, then I could see the harm in making that too easy.
I have no objections to making survival more challenging, and in fact with the new skeletons, especially on Hard mode (the only difficulty I've tried them, actually), they actually become scary, especially in groups of 2 or more in a cramped space. I also like the somewhat recent (I think, anyway) change where monsters will drop from much higher heights (I think it's like up to 20 blocks now) to pursue you. I like added challenge, but I think tinkering with bonemeal was a pretty poor choice in how to implement that.
I was actually hoping for a situation where bonemeal only increased growth speed, and it didn't stack.
I guess I just don't see the intrinsic value in having to wait for something that has such little effect on the game to begin with.
Honestly, if the devs just HAVE to alter bonemeal in some way, I think lowering the drop rate of bones from skeletons, and/or making bones only return a single bonemeal would be a better solution. Bonemeal would still have the same functionality, it would just be more scarce (but still to an insignificant level, and thus sorta pointless to alter). In the end, the effect is going to annoy more people, like myself, who feel that the change was unnecessary, than it's going to improve the gaming experience of those who are OK with the change.
Yes, both times
Anyways, neat snapshot. Though, there's still a LOT more to fix, you guys are doing very good. Keep it up!
I suggest that if anyone wants to test snapshots, just backup your saves and use the .jar download instead. Curse Client is complete crap.
I may be a angel, but that doesn't mean I have evil in me.
I'm not like any other angels, I posses all powers you can imagine.
It was fine before, but then it was tinkered with for a problem that didn't exist. I still have more than enough bonemeal, but now I have to randomly right-click the same square between 2-3 times now (instead of just once before), but why? In what way has this enhanced or bettered the game?
I would love to hear a strong argument for why the game is better now because of this change, and how the game was suffering before without it.
The game is better because now you can't have insta-farms, therefore adding a slight bit of difficulty to Survival (if any at all.. I still have a surplus of bones)
Anything that makes the game take longer or more difficult is better. Nobody wants to play an easy game!
Click the picture!
-Derek Shunia
I wouldn't expect to be able to punch a plant with my fists and have 0-3 seeds and a single unit of wheat to pop out either. I don't expect anything in Minecraft to behave just like it would in real life; I understand that it is a game, not a simulator. I expect games to be fun, and I expect those who develop games to understand what makes a game fun, and not to arbitrarily alter these games without that focus in mind.
If Mojang has taken on some new initiative to make Minecraft more realistic, where each game action is to be held up to some sort of standard based on real world logic, I am certainly unaware of it. That seems to be the basis behind why you support the alterations to bonemeal, since, as you have described, the manner in which in-game plants respond to fertilizer/bonemeal does not accurately reflect how plants in the real world respond, and thus the change is warranted.
How long does it take to kill "one single skeleton"? Two hits with a stone sword or better I believe will take them out (on Hard difficulty). I imagine it'd be fairly easy to swing a couple times in one second, so one second of actually attacking with your sword, and however long it takes you to run from your current location, when you decide "I want to kill a skeleton", to where the nearest skeleton is. With this new system, where you'd need to kill an addition 1-2 skeletons for the same effect or "power", that would maybe increase this total time from maybe 10 to 30 seconds? I suppose that time frame would be much more in line with your comfort level in regards to Minecraft's expected cohesion with reality?
And in regards to being "overpowered", what sort of consequences were there for this previously enjoyed, but clearly excessive, level of power? After all, when something is "overpowered", in regards to games, there is usually a corresponding adverse effect on the intended challenges the game is supposed to impose on the player. I didn't realize that Minecraft was some deep role-playing game, where extra attention needs to be paid to each and every game mechanic, as to not upset the delicate balance of risk vs. reward.
You continue to show why this change was unnecessary with your exaggeration of how few would be impacted by it. My concern is that this may indeed be a new direction the current developers are considering going with Minecraft. What will be the next arbitrary change that doesn't serve to make the game more enjoyable, and what about the one after that? And so on....
Perhaps there is a "realism", or "tedium" mod out there already that caters to those who like these sorts of changes. Are you aware of such a mod, and does it have a large following? If these changes are wanted by a large number of Minecraft users, and the developers at Mojang want to incorporate this into vanilla MC, then perhaps it would be best to incorporate this into the game as a toggleable option at world creation. As it stands now, it appears that these forced changes aren't being well received by a large percentage of current Minecraft users.
You can't? So holding down the right mouse button, and consuming 2-3 pieces of bonemeal in less than a second, as opposed to the previous one piece consumed in also less than a second has made "insta-farms" (which I can't be certain what your definition of that is) unattainable?
Perhaps they should just make a tenfold increase in ALL block mining times then? Whereas currently, with a diamond pickaxe, it takes 0.4 seconds to mine a single cube of cobblestone, but using your "longer is better" approach, jacking that up to 4 seconds per block is an improvement, right? After all, holding my right mouse button down for 4 seconds definitely puts more stress, and therefore is "harder", on the middle finger of my mouse hand. And if that really is an improvement, why stop there? Why not 20 times, or make every block take a full minute to mine?
Although I'm not sure if it's clearly defined, there is an obvious difference between unnecessary tedium (which I gave an example of above) and "difficulty".
I'm not talking about artificial time like that. I'm talking about how you don't get enough bonemeal to grow a whole farm in one night anymore. Is it REALLY that bad that you now have to go to your double chest full of bones for once?
Click the picture!
-Derek Shunia
How long had you been wishing for this change before it happened? Was it REALLY that bad before?
I've been wishing for Survival to be harder since it came out. Yes, it was bad before. 1 bonemeal to instantly yield a crop? That makes it too easy.
I was actually hoping for a situation where bonemeal only increased growth speed, and it didn't stack.
Click the picture!
-Derek Shunia
That would be awesome. However, if you want to see a Reddit suggestion plummet in popularity, suggest ANYTHING that does anything to Bonemeal other than make it more powerful. It's sad.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
One of the reasons I disagree with you (about bonemeal specifically) is because "yielding a crop" is not an overly powerful result, even if done instantly (instead of just shy of instantly, how the current system is). So you use 3 bonemeal to instantly yield 3 pieces of wheat, and what do you have? You have one piece of bread, that doesn't have much saturation, and doesn't give much restoration to your food bar: big whoop. It doesn't instantly make melons or pumpkins, just the stalk. It does give you instant carrot(s) and potatoes, but again, I don't find "instant" carrots and potatoes a particularly powerful tool in this game. If it somehow made getting diamonds much faster, or getting levels for enchanting much faster, or helped you attain any powerful, scarce resource much quicker, then I could see the harm in making that too easy.
I have no objections to making survival more challenging, and in fact with the new skeletons, especially on Hard mode (the only difficulty I've tried them, actually), they actually become scary, especially in groups of 2 or more in a cramped space. I also like the somewhat recent (I think, anyway) change where monsters will drop from much higher heights (I think it's like up to 20 blocks now) to pursue you. I like added challenge, but I think tinkering with bonemeal was a pretty poor choice in how to implement that.
I guess I just don't see the intrinsic value in having to wait for something that has such little effect on the game to begin with.
Honestly, if the devs just HAVE to alter bonemeal in some way, I think lowering the drop rate of bones from skeletons, and/or making bones only return a single bonemeal would be a better solution. Bonemeal would still have the same functionality, it would just be more scarce (but still to an insignificant level, and thus sorta pointless to alter). In the end, the effect is going to annoy more people, like myself, who feel that the change was unnecessary, than it's going to improve the gaming experience of those who are OK with the change.