It's simply out of my mind why breeding is being nerfed when they just added magical blocks that interact with their surroundings , can apparently count , generate multiple signals and detect signal strenght with no explanation at all of how they do that. I don't think that cows are too OP compared with that.
Wheat should indeed take 2 or 3 applications to grow. This can be done by making the crop grow 2 stages per meal rather than one.
For trees, maybe 7-10 shorter growth stages hits the spot. Big mushrooms should have 5 stages since they don't grow by themselves. Grass growth may be given a random amount of plants spawned.
Wheat should indeed take 2 or 3 applications to grow. This can be done by making the crop grow 2 stages per meal rather than one.
For trees, maybe 7-10 shorter growth stages hits the spot. Big mushrooms should have 5 stages since they don't grow by themselves. Grass growth may be given a random amount of plants spawned.
EDIT: Whoops, accidentally posted three times, internet went mad... not intentional, that's for sure, and I don't seem to be able to be able to delete myself... sorry.
Bone meal nerf just means a lot more tedious clicking.
2 shots for a tree and 7 for wheat? yeah that makes sense....
An actual nerf would only give 1 or to meal per bone, and somewhat less tedious clicking. (like 2 for wheat and 3-5 for a tree, 7 for 2x2 jungle)
Or make it work like actual fertilizer- speeds up an area of growth, not give instant magical growth
Dispensers can use it now!?
Not only did you add machine gun style tree farming, you upped the rate of fire. Well done *claps slowly*
Mobs scared of minecart tracks?
This actually sounds like a good idea- until you think about it.
-Guess I don't need a wall/fence to keep monsters out- I'll lay tracks around the perimeter.
-Should I tunnel/bridge and do it properly? nah, on the ground through a dark forest and I'll be fine now.
-At least it can boost the output of mob grinders.
-And I'll be perfectly safe in abandoned mines.
So how are we going to move animals long distance?- use wheat? Try moving cows more than 100 blocks with wheat and see how friggin tedious that is!
Seriously?
Adding a feature which make little sense to solve a tiny problem that's been easy to fix* since tracks were added?
(and in the process wreaks havoc with everything else?)
*Easily fixed by building your rails PROPERLY in the first place- using fence/bridges/tunnels ect to keep mobs out.
-This wasn't even a problem to start with.
Why not make them scared of a noisy minecart rattling towards them? THATS sensible!
In the mean time that API you hired dinnerbone still a WIP with no foreseeable due date since he missed the 1.3 deadline. Thanks for making modded life harder guys.
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
I'm not onboard with the bonemeal thing; I realize it makes things pretty easy as it is, but if they really wanted to nerf it, why not reduce the number of bonemeal you get from a single bone, instead of increasing the number of times you have to do something repetetive?
I get the dispenser thing, so I'm sure some kind of adjustment would be appropriate. I just think that the problem might actually be solved with less frustration and user backlash if the number of bonemeal was reduced to 1 per bone instead of 3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
Not sure what the issue is. Plant enough wheat so you don't have to rely on Bonemeal or make multiple farms to cycle through.
I do like the dispencer changes.
The problem lies with initially getting enough wheat/seeds to keep yourself full for the growth cycle. Unless you get lucky finding a village, thats a lot of grass to punch.
The only time I've ever bothered with bonemeal is those first few nights to build up the initial stockpile.
I guess the nerf could actually say 'spend less time sleeping/cowering- go and fight our souped-up skeletons'
Along with a slightly higher bone drop for player kills.
(phrasing the nerf that way would get a better response)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
This actually sounds like a good idea- until you think about it.
-Guess I don't need a wall/fence to keep monsters out- I'll lay tracks around the perimeter.
-Should I tunnel/bridge and do it properly? nah, on the ground through a dark forest and I'll be fine now.
-At least it can boost the output of mob grinders.
-And I'll be perfectly safe in abandoned mines.
So how are we going to move animals long distance?- use wheat? Try moving cows more than 100 blocks with wheat and see how friggin tedious that is!
Seriously?
Adding a feature which make little sense to solve a tiny problem that's been easy to fix* since tracks were added?
(and in the process wreaks havoc with everything else?)
*Easily fixed by building your rails PROPERLY in the first place- using fence/bridges/tunnels ect to keep mobs out.
-This wasn't even a problem to start with.
I agree, this is an unnecessary change. On one hand, they want to make the game "harder" by having to click more times on a single block... how fun is that. On the other hand, they want to make laying a minecart track mind numblingly easy now, with no considerations of mobs getting on the track, lighting the track, etc? How do those two concepts jibe together?
Leave bonemeal alone, and leave the minecart tracks alone. I don't even like the idea of mobs being scared of an inbound minecart. If that's the case, that still eliminates the need to make your track mob-proof, since they'll never be near the track when it's actually being used.
Also, if mobs are scared of minecart tracks, you can't make fun contraptions where you send a TNT cart into a group of mobs to blow them to smithereens, if they will avoid the tracks at all costs.
"Taught dispensers and droppers about the 3rd Dimension"
OH! CALLED IT! TRUMP! TRUUUUUUMP!
Seriously, cool stuff... I'm guessing from the photo that Dispensers have learned to ignite thingies using Flint and Steel. Pretty slick, but Fire Charges can be used to achieve the same result... nevertheless, that's another item to make the Dropper actually vaguely useful
Anyone know what this Scoreboard thing is?... I haven't played around in shapshot land for 1.5 yet, but I'd love to know what that thing actually is.
Final thought--does anyone else get the impression that 7 Bonemeal should be for Saplings, and 2 for Wheat? Cuz wheat is cheap and really easy to get (also not that useful--now three seeds + 21 frikkin bonemeal for one bread, it's infinitely easier to get Pork or Steak or something else legit like that than to kill that many skeletons, not to mention the fact that skellies just got even more OP ), whereas saplings grow from little teensy things to gigantic trees (well, I suppose I exaggerate here, but nonetheless bigger than WHEAT) that provide absolutely dead-on critical Wood. Balancing issue, much...?
Anywho, still looking forward to 1.5! Should be a sweet update for <pans through lists of snapshot features> EVERYTHING!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Define Cute (choose 1): A) Creepers Aerbunnies C) Herobrine. If you chose A): You appeal to destruction and to stereotypes. If you chose B): You are a perfectly normal person, and enjoy the Aether Mod. If you chose C): Please leave the planet now before you set off a nuclear warhead--no one enjoys mass murders, however nice they might seem to you.
I for one endorse the bone meal nerf. I felt that once I killed a single Skeleton, I was set for food. Now, I will have to work twice or seven times as hard. Nerfing bone meal was a good move Jeb_. Keep it up!
Allow me to point out that since Skeletons were buffed in a previous update, they're now much harder to kill. Therefore bone meal is much more difficult to obtain, especially at the start of the game.
Looking at math of the game, it takes 7 bones (or 21 bone meal) to fast track 3 wheat to make 1 bread loaf; with 21 bone meal you can:
You can fast track 10 oak trees, on those trees there are 24-32 leaves from those leaves there's a 1/200 chance of a red apple. From my tests I've gotten at least 2 apples from each test run of 10 trees. 2 apples fills more hunger points than of 1 loaf of bread and you get loads of wood as well.
You can fast track 3 melon stalks getting an average of 5 melon slices from each stalk on the first harvest, and they will grow new melons. 15 melons fill 5 times more hunger than 1 loaf of bread.
you can make a 10 huge brown mushrooms and 10 huge red mushrooms from those you can harvest an average of 15 mushrooms of each type. Now with a wooden bowl, you're set for mushroom soup for rest of the game.
So now it's a waste of time to fast grow wheat, you can let it grow normally for breading cows.
2. In looking at the game logically, a tree has a much larger mass than a stalk of wheat, therefore it would require more water, minerals and energy to create a tree over wheat. Therefore it should take less bone meal to make wheat than a tree.
I play hardcore mode 90% of the time, I say at least half the time I would have died from hunger if it wasn't for seed and a bone because there was nothing else to eat. This new bone meal nerf makes sky block maps, survivor island maps, desert maps and maps where beasts failed to spawn impossible to play. (honestly)
Solution
Wheat should have 2 growth stage (newly planted and full grown) so it would only take 1 bone meal to grow.
or just have an exception for wheat have it 8 stages but only 1 bone meal to grow.
Why are people throwing a hissy fit over the rails keeping mobs out? You can't possibly tell me mobs stopping your cart every freaking time didn't annoy you.
Its just funny to watch all these people complaining about the very first version of an unfinished feature.
it's not complaining it's called feedback; if it wasn't for feedback then these unpopular unfinished features would be in the next version. just say'n.
I agree that the bonemeal nerf is insane and backwards --
1) The real killer is at game startup -- that's when you actually need to grow wheat fast, and now you need 7 bones for a single loaf of bread!
ETA: 1a) would be when you need to multiply plants for a field.
2) Long term: 1 bone gets you several blocks of wood from a normal tree, or 100 or so from a jungle giant (if you have the saplings)... but it takes 3 bones to grow a potato plant to maturity? Riiight.
And it's not like its use on crop fields was that overpowered -- for a basic 9x9 plot, you would already have needed 27 bones for the whole field, which is significant even if you do have a skeleton farm. (And even using dispensers -- how far away can the dispenser put the bonemeal? Can it go through mature plants?)
If they're going to hard-nerf any aspect of bonemeal, it should be the use on jungle giants, which right now gives wood as fast as you can chop. I could live with 2 meal for ordinary trees.
But you know what would be really good? Using bonemeal to grow a tree into a larger form. First use, you (always) get a small tree. Second use, you get max size of the small form. Third use, you get a big form. Jungle giants need 4 (or more) to reach full size.
Optionally, it could regenerate chopped leaves and wood, when used on or beneath a vertical log. OK, that would let you grow a tree from a log -- maybe it only would work if you have top and bottom logs, and (re)grow leaves only proportional to the resulting trunk.
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
Although this is totally unrelated, they should add like an xp bank into Minecraft. Basically it would work like an ender chest and you can store xp and save it up instead of either spending it or dying with it. Anyway it all sounds cool except for the bone meal. Come on 7 bone meal for a one block wheat to grow while it takes 2 to grow a giant tree, can someone show the logic behind that?.
I think the best solution for the bonemeal change controversy is to link it to the difficulty settings, so that for crops for example:
Peaceful = 1 bonemeal to full grown
Easy = 2 bonemeal to full grown
Normal = 4 bonemeal to full grown
Hard = 7 bonemeal to full grown
Why bother doing that? In peaceful mode you don't get hungry therefor there is no immediate need to grow a stalks of wheat (when you can't find anything else) The harder the game mode gets the faster you get hungry and the more damage mobs do to you so there is a more immediate need to get food. (The sound of a god's bellow, "Warrior needs food, Badly!", echos in the dungeon while running the Gauntlet) Making us need to use 7 bones to make 1 loaf seems off to me.
And yes, the only really matters in the start of the game when you're at your weakest, and there isn't anything else to eat. (which seems to happen to me a lot)
Although this is totally unrelated, they should add like an xp bank into Minecraft. Basically it would work like an ender chest and you can store xp and save it up instead of either spending it or dying with it. Anyway it all sounds cool except for the bone meal. Come on 7 bone meal for a one block wheat to grow while it takes 2 to grow a giant tree, can someone show the logic behind that?.
I thought about that too, but it would make XP farming extremely easy and if you really want to keep XP after death, play with cheats on and enter /gamerule keepInventory true
I can see all of this bonemeal nerf hoax, but I think it's best to let Mojang do what's good for them. At least they're trying to give us some challenges so it won't be a very short gameplay or a task.
My biggest concern is the efficiency of bread. Now it feels like carrots or potatoes are much more efficient than bread, since the vegetable don't require more than a dozen of bonemeal.
Bread is my favorite game meal... but now it's just pointless. (Unless you make a giant wheat farm of about 30x30 blocks big and you just let them grow by themselves)
Although this is totally unrelated, they should add like an xp bank into Minecraft. Basically it would work like an ender chest ...
A more balanced way would probably be to let you produce Bottles o'Enchanting, perhaps costing 1 level apiece (and maybe a cheap potion ingredient for a base). Wanna take that to the Suggestions forum?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
It's simply out of my mind why breeding is being nerfed when they just added magical blocks that interact with their surroundings , can apparently count , generate multiple signals and detect signal strenght with no explanation at all of how they do that. I don't think that cows are too OP compared with that.
Wheat should indeed take 2 or 3 applications to grow. This can be done by making the crop grow 2 stages per meal rather than one.
For trees, maybe 7-10 shorter growth stages hits the spot. Big mushrooms should have 5 stages since they don't grow by themselves. Grass growth may be given a random amount of plants spawned.
Wheat should indeed take 2 or 3 applications to grow. This can be done by making the crop grow 2 stages per meal rather than one.
For trees, maybe 7-10 shorter growth stages hits the spot. Big mushrooms should have 5 stages since they don't grow by themselves. Grass growth may be given a random amount of plants spawned.
EDIT: Whoops, accidentally posted three times, internet went mad... not intentional, that's for sure, and I don't seem to be able to be able to delete myself... sorry.
2 shots for a tree and 7 for wheat? yeah that makes sense....
Dispensers can use it now!?
Not only did you add machine gun style tree farming, you upped the rate of fire. Well done *claps slowly*
Mobs scared of minecart tracks?
In the mean time that API you hired dinnerbone still a WIP with no foreseeable due date since he missed the 1.3 deadline. Thanks for making modded life harder guys.
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
I get the dispenser thing, so I'm sure some kind of adjustment would be appropriate. I just think that the problem might actually be solved with less frustration and user backlash if the number of bonemeal was reduced to 1 per bone instead of 3.
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
I do like the dispencer changes.
The problem lies with initially getting enough wheat/seeds to keep yourself full for the growth cycle. Unless you get lucky finding a village, thats a lot of grass to punch.
The only time I've ever bothered with bonemeal is those first few nights to build up the initial stockpile.
I guess the nerf could actually say 'spend less time sleeping/cowering- go and fight our souped-up skeletons'
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
I agree, this is an unnecessary change. On one hand, they want to make the game "harder" by having to click more times on a single block... how fun is that. On the other hand, they want to make laying a minecart track mind numblingly easy now, with no considerations of mobs getting on the track, lighting the track, etc? How do those two concepts jibe together?
Leave bonemeal alone, and leave the minecart tracks alone. I don't even like the idea of mobs being scared of an inbound minecart. If that's the case, that still eliminates the need to make your track mob-proof, since they'll never be near the track when it's actually being used.
Also, if mobs are scared of minecart tracks, you can't make fun contraptions where you send a TNT cart into a group of mobs to blow them to smithereens, if they will avoid the tracks at all costs.
OH! CALLED IT! TRUMP! TRUUUUUUMP!
Seriously, cool stuff... I'm guessing from the photo that Dispensers have learned to ignite thingies using Flint and Steel. Pretty slick, but Fire Charges can be used to achieve the same result... nevertheless, that's another item to make the Dropper actually vaguely useful
Anyone know what this Scoreboard thing is?... I haven't played around in shapshot land for 1.5 yet, but I'd love to know what that thing actually is.
Final thought--does anyone else get the impression that 7 Bonemeal should be for Saplings, and 2 for Wheat? Cuz wheat is cheap and really easy to get (also not that useful--now three seeds + 21 frikkin bonemeal for one bread, it's infinitely easier to get Pork or Steak or something else legit like that than to kill that many skeletons, not to mention the fact that skellies just got even more OP ), whereas saplings grow from little teensy things to gigantic trees (well, I suppose I exaggerate here, but nonetheless bigger than WHEAT) that provide absolutely dead-on critical Wood. Balancing issue, much...?
Anywho, still looking forward to 1.5! Should be a sweet update for <pans through lists of snapshot features> EVERYTHING!
Allow me to point out that since Skeletons were buffed in a previous update, they're now much harder to kill. Therefore bone meal is much more difficult to obtain, especially at the start of the game.
Looking at math of the game, it takes 7 bones (or 21 bone meal) to fast track 3 wheat to make 1 bread loaf; with 21 bone meal you can:
2. In looking at the game logically, a tree has a much larger mass than a stalk of wheat, therefore it would require more water, minerals and energy to create a tree over wheat. Therefore it should take less bone meal to make wheat than a tree.
I play hardcore mode 90% of the time, I say at least half the time I would have died from hunger if it wasn't for seed and a bone because there was nothing else to eat. This new bone meal nerf makes sky block maps, survivor island maps, desert maps and maps where beasts failed to spawn impossible to play. (honestly)
Solution
Wheat should have 2 growth stage (newly planted and full grown) so it would only take 1 bone meal to grow.
or just have an exception for wheat have it 8 stages but only 1 bone meal to grow.
it's not complaining it's called feedback; if it wasn't for feedback then these unpopular unfinished features would be in the next version. just say'n.
1) The real killer is at game startup -- that's when you actually need to grow wheat fast, and now you need 7 bones for a single loaf of bread!
ETA: 1a) would be when you need to multiply plants for a field.
2) Long term: 1 bone gets you several blocks of wood from a normal tree, or 100 or so from a jungle giant (if you have the saplings)... but it takes 3 bones to grow a potato plant to maturity? Riiight.
And it's not like its use on crop fields was that overpowered -- for a basic 9x9 plot, you would already have needed 27 bones for the whole field, which is significant even if you do have a skeleton farm. (And even using dispensers -- how far away can the dispenser put the bonemeal? Can it go through mature plants?)
If they're going to hard-nerf any aspect of bonemeal, it should be the use on jungle giants, which right now gives wood as fast as you can chop. I could live with 2 meal for ordinary trees.
But you know what would be really good? Using bonemeal to grow a tree into a larger form. First use, you (always) get a small tree. Second use, you get max size of the small form. Third use, you get a big form. Jungle giants need 4 (or more) to reach full size.
Optionally, it could regenerate chopped leaves and wood, when used on or beneath a vertical log. OK, that would let you grow a tree from a log -- maybe it only would work if you have top and bottom logs, and (re)grow leaves only proportional to the resulting trunk.
Why bother doing that? In peaceful mode you don't get hungry therefor there is no immediate need to grow a stalks of wheat (when you can't find anything else) The harder the game mode gets the faster you get hungry and the more damage mobs do to you so there is a more immediate need to get food. (The sound of a god's bellow, "Warrior needs food, Badly!", echos in the dungeon while running the Gauntlet) Making us need to use 7 bones to make 1 loaf seems off to me.
And yes, the only really matters in the start of the game when you're at your weakest, and there isn't anything else to eat. (which seems to happen to me a lot)
I thought about that too, but it would make XP farming extremely easy and if you really want to keep XP after death, play with cheats on and enter /gamerule keepInventory true
My biggest concern is the efficiency of bread. Now it feels like carrots or potatoes are much more efficient than bread, since the vegetable don't require more than a dozen of bonemeal.
Bread is my favorite game meal... but now it's just pointless. (Unless you make a giant wheat farm of about 30x30 blocks big and you just let them grow by themselves)
A more balanced way would probably be to let you produce Bottles o'Enchanting, perhaps costing 1 level apiece (and maybe a cheap potion ingredient for a base). Wanna take that to the Suggestions forum?