In reality, there's no such thing as a "patent troll"...it's just the way patent laws work. I work for a company that was recently awarded a patent just as obscure as this one, but what the news reports don't tell the public is that it was applied for in 2002, when the technology really didn't exist (has to do with smart phones...think on that one). It's very possible that Uniloc applied for this patent long ago, and was just now awarded. Patents are backdated to the application date.
*Snip*
Again, no such thing as "patent trolls", they are required by law to file suits to enforce their patent, otherwise they'll lose it.
While on the surface you may be correct that you need to file a lawsuit in order to enforce patents, and in obvious cases of infringement it is something you should do, as a matter of practice most companies with a patent portfolio don't do that.
There is a concept called a defensive patent, where you basically patent every technology related to the industry that you can think up for the express purpose of burning the other guy. In other words, as soon as some competitor decides to take you to the cleaners over a patent infringement, you find a dozen or more patents that they have infringed upon of yours and turn the tables to make the former plaintiff into a defendant in a patent lawsuit. What usually happens is that both parties sit down and settle out of court doing a "cross licensing" scheme where they agree to license each other's patents so both companies are legit.
This kind of behavior is something I think is still scummy though because it keeps new companies from being able to enter the industry as the new company doesn't have any patents to fight that kind of collusion to restrain trade. Still that isn't a patent troll.
What makes Uniloc a patent troll is that they produce nothing other than legal briefs. If they actually produced a product, had more engineers than lawyers working for them and had factories or at least customers buying their engineering services, they might be a company worth considering as honorable. Instead, since they have more lawyers than engineers (I'm not sure they even have any engineers at all) and don't produce any useful product, that is what makes them patent trolls. Since they don't produce anything useful and don't engage in any actual engineering, they don't violate any other patents and thus can't get caught up in the cross-licensing schemes to more or less nullify the more harmful effects of patent infringement.
I don't know about the company you work for, but if your company produces actual products and has actual engineers making things, they aren't a patent troll.
Leaving the US market... what?
OK, here is the list of the 10 countries with the highest GDP:
1.Qatar
2.Luxembourg
3.Singapore
4.Norway
5.Brunei 6.United States
7.United Arab Emirates
8.Switzerland
9.Netherlands
10.Austria
The US is has the sixth highest GDP. That is a BIG market. Plus, Mojang has already sold games to US customers. So they have US fans, cutting off part of a customer base is a STUPID idea.
You might want to look at that chart again and see what it says. The number you are quoting is the per capita (per person) GDP, where I'd agree that the USA is likely number six.
If you also consider though that the USA has more than 300 million people living in it though, its GDP then becomes the largest in the world (or ranking with the European Union as a whole if you treat that entity as a nation). The other countries ranking above on your list are very small countries, at least have a low population. Norway or Luxembourg have a population that is about the same as a small state in America. Luxembourg in particular has about the same population as Wyoming, and Norway has about the same population as Colorado.
Notch saying goodbye to the USA is abandoning a major market for his products that simply couldn't be made up by trying to sell to the rest of the world. I promise you that those countries that are listed higher on this list have much smaller economies than that of the USA. That the individual citizens of those countries might be wealthier than an average citizens in America is true, but that isn't what I'm asserting.
You can also check out this list for a full GDP comparison that compares countries rather than the per capita economies:
Notch went back on what he said about not selling in the US.
When he said he wouldn't be selling games in the US anymore, it felt like it was a knee-jerk reaction to the lawsuit.
In all honesty, it got me infuriated with Uniloc, which was probably the intended result.
Plus who in the hell patents software? I've heard of specially made bowls and other trinkets being patented, but software?
I'm from the US and I never knew you could do that, seeing as software isn't physical.
Thanks for the twitter links. That is at least adding something positive to the conversation on this thread and is useful to know.
In terms of why there are software patents, the thing is that any piece of software can be made into an actual physical electronic circuit, thus it becomes eligible for patent protection. It is sort of obscure but the gist of the deal is that if software patents are thrown out as something you can't patent, you also throw out most digital electronic circuits as something which can't be patented as well. That is the back door that got the U.S. court system to recognize software patents, because a physical and tangible device could in theory be made out of that software idea.
The problem with this Uniloc patent is not the fact it is a software patent (pretty scummy I might add and a problem), but rather the overly broad description of what is being claimed as infringement. Generally most patents cover very narrow set of claims that distinguishes the invention from other inventions. What makes some of the patents granted in the 1990's very nasty is that few software patents were granted previously (the USPTO wouldn't even take them earlier) so you could (and some people did) patent concepts that were very common in the industry but weren't rejected because of a lack of prior art as contained in the database of prior patents. The head of the USPTO was even on record in the 1990's as saying he didn't mind that patents were being issued for common concepts, as even invalid patents would thus be added to the patent database.
Patents can be used for good but are usually abused for eeeeeviiiiiil.
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Make texture packs? Tired of people telling you to upload better screencaps? Send me a message with a link to your pack & I can help. (Check my Planet Minecraft blogs for photography examples). http://www.planetminecraft.com/member/likalaruku/
So say I spend £500000000 making a game, and then sell it. You steal it, and then make money off it. Yeh, stupid patents protecting my work. How dare you not be able to steal my work?
And in a smaller form, this is the lawsuit. I think that the mcforums have done nothing to help, only make notch look like a whingy two year old, not to mention the pathetic fans who are now sending hate mail. Why can't this be kept private? Why does something that challenges minecraft have to be made as ultra-public, ultra-hate as possible? Without any facts?
Pathetic.
I half agree with you.
1. Guys stop sending hate mail (however we are free to talk on the forum!)
2. Game developers need security, but in my opinion sometimes companies take advantage of it.
I disagree with you on...
1. This is the minecraftforum, people state there opinions on a forum, so expect some extremists.
2. look we aren't notch's representatives, if THATS how you judge him than i think that is very ignorant.
I've done some research, Ric does actually represent the company and is actually biased in his opinions:
The Uniloc technology is based on a patent granted to the inventor Ric Richardson who is also a principal in the Uniloc Company.
Now he could still be trying to not be biased, but for all intents and purposes he's actually lied on his posts by saying he has no direct connection to the lawsuit. The patent was granted to him, therefore he has direct connection to the lawsuit about the patent.
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[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
applications for use on cellular phones and/or tablet devices that require communication with a server to perform a license check is what the idiots put a patent on. This is reminiscent of someone trying to patent the wheel, or lungs, or something, cos thousands of things use it. I hope the judge throws it out of court.
"to perform a license check to prevent the unauthorized use of said application, including,
but not limited to, Mindcraft."
Seriously, they are filing a lawsuit and they can't even get the name of the application they are filing against right?
Notch, point out these guys' flaws in their document or don't tell them, since I'm sure you don't own a game called Mindcraft. They will have to go through their documents over again and probably take them weeks or months for them to even pull this again. Also are they really even legitimate? Or is this some company trying to get money off a famous name?
Double Jeopardy. Good luck with a new lawsuit in Sweden.
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What is life? It is merely a protein based mechanism built for energy consumption... It is nothing special really.
"Pheww. The reaction to the Mojang story is just going through the roof. over 8,000 visitors just to my site. Its amazing to see so many people loyal to this game maker. Good on him.
But guys please be fair.
1. I am not the inventor of the patent in question.
2. The personal attacks are a bit much don't you think?
3. Patents are there to stop people stealing a technology you invented and letting you have a fair shot at making a living from it. If Uniloc wants to test this in court it is there prerogative, the same way that Mojang contested the use of the copyright term "Scrolls" and took people to court."
the parts that i think were just dumb i put in bold
1 YOU DON'T SAY?
2 he is a patent troll. He messed with the wrong crowd. **** with mojang, you **** with us.
3 HE IS A PATENT TROLL.He claims patents simply so he can sue people. he isnt protecting ****. he's sueing mojang because you connect to a server when logging in. he patented this login method so he can make money.
HE DIDNT INVENT THIS METHOD. he patented it because the creator never did.
4 HE ONLY WANTS MONEY HE ISNT PROTECTING ****!
MOJANG DIDNT TAKE BETHESDA TO COURT, YOU ****! Bethesda tried sueing THEM! Mojang/notch offered to settle it in a video game match, he is a god amongst men!
This is never going to go anywhere. The thing Uniloc patented is used by millions. Now if they are really prepared to sue every single person who uses it, then they are going to be ****ed so HARD :/
Patents are for claiming a very specific way of making something or doing something that only you should be able to profit from, in order to prevent abuse or competition. The are not for claiming a generalized thing that everyone uses, and they are certainly not for claiming ideas. This idiot, Ric Richardson, is trying to do the first of the two things that patents should not be used for. The patent system is flawed in that it allows both of these things to happen.
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Hey Uniloc, **** YOU SON OF A BI***. I WILL FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST YOU AND RIC RICHARDSON FOR NOT USING PATENTS THE CORRECT WAY AND I HOPE YOU WILL GET BANKRUPT... YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT. YOU EVEN TRIED TO SUE MY FAVORITE COMPANY, LAMINAR RESEARCH (Makers of X-Plane, a flight simulator)
This idiot, Ric Richardson, is trying to do the first of the two things that patents should not be used for. The patent system is flawed in that it allows both of these things to happen.
If you don't like overly broad patents, I'd suggest your vent your spleen not at Ric Richardson in this situation, but rather to your favorite congressman or to your respective political leader in whatever country you happen to live in. The sad thing here is that the law permitted this kind of junk to happen, and even worse no political candidate for any kind of political office is going to have patent reform as a major campaign platform... or at least that hasn't happened in my memory for at least American politics. I highly doubt it is a big deal in other countries either.
If voters don't care about this stuff, the politicians go "meh?" and vote for whatever industry groups say they want. That is what has given us this screwed up patent system. If you make it a political issue, those running for public office would pay attention.
Wait a second, if they are suing Mojang for having a database which stores IDs and a system to check your ID, then they can literally sue every website in existence that is password-protected. O.O It's kind of retarded and smart (from a money-making point of view) for them to do that. LOLZ that android "Mindcraft" isn't password protected, but how you buy it is; from the android market. They could sue for iOS "Mindcraft" too, but their claim would only be valid if the sued apple. Same thing for android market.
Wait a second, if they are suing Mojang for having a database which stores IDs and a system to check your ID, then they can literally sue every website in existence that is password-protected. O.O It's kind of retarded and smart (from a money-making point of view) for them to do that. LOLZ that android "Mindcraft" isn't password protected, but how you buy it is; from the android market. They could sue for iOS "Mindcraft" too, but their claim would only be valid if the sued apple. Same thing for android market.
Yes, they could.... as long as it can be accessed with mobile devices like a cell phone, well sort of. The main gist of the patent is that it covers authenticating copyrighted material (like a game) where you need to log into a central server to confirm that you have a valid license to use that software, and some kind of encrypted hash code is returned that is in turn interpreted by the computer to unlock the functionality of that software.
Other than the fact it isn't a mobile device, this is the authentication system used by Mojang for Minecraft. I'm not as familiar with Minecraft for Android, so I can't say with a certainty that it doesn't use this authentication system. Others have said that though.
In 2003 Uniloc filed a patent infringement lawsuit against Microsoft for the unauthorized use of a product activation anti-piracy system on Microsoft’s Windows XP and Office XP products. In 2009 a Federal Court jury in Rhode Island found Microsoft guilty of willful infringement and ordered Microsoft to pay Uniloc $388 Million in damages. Both sides stipulated that there is an additional $86 Million in interest owed to Uniloc.
Uniloc and Ric Richardson don't need money, they want more money. They've won dozens of lawsuits, including one against freaking MICROSOFT, in which they won a third of a billion dollars after getting rejected twice by the courts, meaning they went back and whined at the courts until they won, kinda bratty huh? I really hope Mojang, EA, and Square Enix win their undeserved lawsuits. Patent trolls are garbage.
While on the surface you may be correct that you need to file a lawsuit in order to enforce patents, and in obvious cases of infringement it is something you should do, as a matter of practice most companies with a patent portfolio don't do that.
There is a concept called a defensive patent, where you basically patent every technology related to the industry that you can think up for the express purpose of burning the other guy. In other words, as soon as some competitor decides to take you to the cleaners over a patent infringement, you find a dozen or more patents that they have infringed upon of yours and turn the tables to make the former plaintiff into a defendant in a patent lawsuit. What usually happens is that both parties sit down and settle out of court doing a "cross licensing" scheme where they agree to license each other's patents so both companies are legit.
This kind of behavior is something I think is still scummy though because it keeps new companies from being able to enter the industry as the new company doesn't have any patents to fight that kind of collusion to restrain trade. Still that isn't a patent troll.
What makes Uniloc a patent troll is that they produce nothing other than legal briefs. If they actually produced a product, had more engineers than lawyers working for them and had factories or at least customers buying their engineering services, they might be a company worth considering as honorable. Instead, since they have more lawyers than engineers (I'm not sure they even have any engineers at all) and don't produce any useful product, that is what makes them patent trolls. Since they don't produce anything useful and don't engage in any actual engineering, they don't violate any other patents and thus can't get caught up in the cross-licensing schemes to more or less nullify the more harmful effects of patent infringement.
I don't know about the company you work for, but if your company produces actual products and has actual engineers making things, they aren't a patent troll.
You might want to look at that chart again and see what it says. The number you are quoting is the per capita (per person) GDP, where I'd agree that the USA is likely number six.
If you also consider though that the USA has more than 300 million people living in it though, its GDP then becomes the largest in the world (or ranking with the European Union as a whole if you treat that entity as a nation). The other countries ranking above on your list are very small countries, at least have a low population. Norway or Luxembourg have a population that is about the same as a small state in America. Luxembourg in particular has about the same population as Wyoming, and Norway has about the same population as Colorado.
Notch saying goodbye to the USA is abandoning a major market for his products that simply couldn't be made up by trying to sell to the rest of the world. I promise you that those countries that are listed higher on this list have much smaller economies than that of the USA. That the individual citizens of those countries might be wealthier than an average citizens in America is true, but that isn't what I'm asserting.
You can also check out this list for a full GDP comparison that compares countries rather than the per capita economies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
Thanks for the twitter links. That is at least adding something positive to the conversation on this thread and is useful to know.
In terms of why there are software patents, the thing is that any piece of software can be made into an actual physical electronic circuit, thus it becomes eligible for patent protection. It is sort of obscure but the gist of the deal is that if software patents are thrown out as something you can't patent, you also throw out most digital electronic circuits as something which can't be patented as well. That is the back door that got the U.S. court system to recognize software patents, because a physical and tangible device could in theory be made out of that software idea.
The problem with this Uniloc patent is not the fact it is a software patent (pretty scummy I might add and a problem), but rather the overly broad description of what is being claimed as infringement. Generally most patents cover very narrow set of claims that distinguishes the invention from other inventions. What makes some of the patents granted in the 1990's very nasty is that few software patents were granted previously (the USPTO wouldn't even take them earlier) so you could (and some people did) patent concepts that were very common in the industry but weren't rejected because of a lack of prior art as contained in the database of prior patents. The head of the USPTO was even on record in the 1990's as saying he didn't mind that patents were being issued for common concepts, as even invalid patents would thus be added to the patent database.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
1. Guys stop sending hate mail (however we are free to talk on the forum!)
2. Game developers need security, but in my opinion sometimes companies take advantage of it.
I disagree with you on...
1. This is the minecraftforum, people state there opinions on a forum, so expect some extremists.
2. look we aren't notch's representatives, if THATS how you judge him than i think that is very ignorant.
and thats MY opinion
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Retired StaffNow he could still be trying to not be biased, but for all intents and purposes he's actually lied on his posts by saying he has no direct connection to the lawsuit. The patent was granted to him, therefore he has direct connection to the lawsuit about the patent.
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Double Jeopardy. Good luck with a new lawsuit in Sweden.
What is life? It is merely a protein based mechanism built for energy consumption... It is nothing special really.
1 YOU DON'T SAY?
2 he is a patent troll. He messed with the wrong crowd. **** with mojang, you **** with us.
3 HE IS A PATENT TROLL.He claims patents simply so he can sue people. he isnt protecting ****. he's sueing mojang because you connect to a server when logging in. he patented this login method so he can make money.
HE DIDNT INVENT THIS METHOD. he patented it because the creator never did.
4 HE ONLY WANTS MONEY HE ISNT PROTECTING ****!
MOJANG DIDNT TAKE BETHESDA TO COURT, YOU ****! Bethesda tried sueing THEM! Mojang/notch offered to settle it in a video game match, he is a god amongst men!
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blarg, what happens to minecraft though?
If you don't like overly broad patents, I'd suggest your vent your spleen not at Ric Richardson in this situation, but rather to your favorite congressman or to your respective political leader in whatever country you happen to live in. The sad thing here is that the law permitted this kind of junk to happen, and even worse no political candidate for any kind of political office is going to have patent reform as a major campaign platform... or at least that hasn't happened in my memory for at least American politics. I highly doubt it is a big deal in other countries either.
If voters don't care about this stuff, the politicians go "meh?" and vote for whatever industry groups say they want. That is what has given us this screwed up patent system. If you make it a political issue, those running for public office would pay attention.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
Yes, they could.... as long as it can be accessed with mobile devices like a cell phone, well sort of. The main gist of the patent is that it covers authenticating copyrighted material (like a game) where you need to log into a central server to confirm that you have a valid license to use that software, and some kind of encrypted hash code is returned that is in turn interpreted by the computer to unlock the functionality of that software.
Other than the fact it isn't a mobile device, this is the authentication system used by Mojang for Minecraft. I'm not as familiar with Minecraft for Android, so I can't say with a certainty that it doesn't use this authentication system. Others have said that though.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
goodluck