You're right, Notch should not apologize for the actions of others. What he should do is distance himself from the actions though. Notch is in no way responsible or liable for what people do, but the most likely culprit of the attacks on the Yogscast site come from people who took Notch's words to heart. He should come out with a short statement, even twitter would work, saying he doesn't support members of the minecraft community committing illegal acts against the Yogscraft people. At the very least, ask for civil discourse while he talks things over with the Yogscast after he apologized for airing everything publicly.
OK, let's look at this another way.
Let's assume that millions of people hang onto every word that I say. Let's also assume that I come up with some sort of... misconception about you (something that isn't true, but that I'd heard someone say and believed). For example, I question your sexuality or... I dunno, that you eat babies or something. As a direct result you are subjected to torrents of abuse from my legions of sheep like followers (see directly below for a perfect example of your average sheep), who endeavour to attack your business, harass you wherever you go and directly affect your income.
You would sue my ass into oblivion, would you not? Slander/libel laws exist for a reason, and to absolve Notch of any responsibility for his careless actions is naive at best.
I'm not suggesting that the Yogscast sue Notch at all, but come on... a proper apology is the LEAST they deserve for all of this.
Let's assume that millions of people hang onto every word that I say. Let's also assume that I come up with some sort of... misconception about you (something that isn't true, but that I'd heard someone say and believed). For example, I question your sexuality or... I dunno, that you eat babies or something. As a direct result you are subjected to torrents of abuse from my legions of sheep like followers, who endeavour to attack your business, harass you wherever you go and directly affect your income.
You would sue my ass into oblivion, would you not? Slander/libel laws exist for a reason, and to absolve Notch of any responsibility for his careless actions is naive at best.
I'm not suggesting that the Yogscast sue Notch at all, but come on... a proper apology is the LEAST they deserve for all of this.
Let's assume that millions of people hang onto every word that I say. Let's also assume that I come up with some sort of... misconception about you (something that isn't true, but that I'd heard someone say and believed). For example, I question your sexuality or... I dunno, that you eat babies or something. As a direct result you are subjected to torrents of abuse from my legions of sheep like followers (see directly below for a perfect example of your average sheep), who endeavour to attack your business, harass you wherever you go and directly affect your income.
You would sue my ass into oblivion, would you not? Slander/libel laws exist for a reason, and to absolve Notch of any responsibility for his careless actions is naive at best.
I'm not suggesting that the Yogscast sue Notch at all, but come on... a proper apology is the LEAST they deserve for all of this.
What the hell? You're not going to get very far if you argue with the people against your argument and those who support it. Hint, I'm in the latter category.
How about something that goes a bit further towards making amends than "I'm sorry I made this public" which is all we've seen thus far.
Let's see a joint statement once they have put their differences aside. Or if that's impossible, then at least some form of disapproval from Notch/Mojang regarding the frankly pathetic actions of an admitted minority of his community.
Hell, I'm no PR guy but there's two examples that go way farther to rectifying this whole situation than I've seen from Notch thus far. A little bit of professionalism in lieu of his hasty and unprofessional tweets would not be amiss.
I also wouldn't consider an apology on Twitter to be enough, either. How about a proper statement regarding the matter, apology or otherwise?
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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
What the hell? You're not going to get very far if you argue with the people against your argument and those who support it. Hint, I'm in the latter category.
You're right, Notch should not apologize for the actions of others. What he should do is distance himself from the actions though. Notch is in no way responsible or liable for what people do I disagree. His actions directly led to the actions of others. Without one, the other would not have happened. Even if you don't throw a single punch, you can be guilty of incitement.
He should come out with a short statement, even twitter would work, saying he doesn't support members of the minecraft community committing illegal acts against the Yogscraft people. At the very least, ask for civil discourse while he talks things over with the Yogscast after he apologized for airing everything publicly. I agree. Mostly. (He should do it on a more professional medium than Twitter, but otherwise I agree).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
How about something that goes a bit further towards making amends than "I'm sorry I made this public" which is all we've seen thus far.
Let's see a joint statement once they have put their differences aside. Or if that's impossible, then at least some form of disapproval from Notch/Mojang regarding the frankly pathetic actions of an admitted minority of his community.
Hell, I'm no PR guy but there's two examples that go way farther to rectifying this whole situation than I've seen from Notch thus far. A little bit of professionalism in lieu of his hasty and unprofessional tweets would not be amiss.
I also wouldn't consider an apology on Twitter to be enough, either. How about a proper statement regarding the matter, apology or otherwise?
Well to make it fair, Simon made his statement through Reddit, which is basically kind of like Twitter in a way. I don't mind apologies being on the internet, but Notch basically has already said 'Fair Enough' to Simon (in a positive way), indicating that he is okay with their response even though it doesn't fix what he's said about them on Twitter.
I find their 'conversation' to be rather confusing and not mixing well, as both of them are saying that they are telling the truth, but to me it seems as though the truth isn't matching up.
I guess I'm getting a bit off topic here d:
Anyway! I feel that it is the Yogscast's turn to say whether or not they are satisfied with Notch's apology. If they are satisfied, then it ends there.
That's how I see it, though. I mean, it is their situation and us going around suggesting and evaluating things doesn't really seem to matter at this point..
I disagree. His actions directly led to the actions of others. Without one, the other would not have happened. Even if you don't throw a single punch, you can be guilty of incitement.
Notch can say what he likes as it is his opinion, but the actions of others is something that he can not control. It is the person's decision how they react to the situation, whether good, bad, or neutral. I don't think Notch should apologize due to the idiocy of others. ^-^;
Touché, I think I should have thought of that before I had posted, because when you get down to it all, the people who caused the DDOS and harassment were the ones who "jumped the gun."
Except a jury... or OBJECTIVE thinker goes into each case with no preconceived notions otherwise there is a conflict of interest. By admitting that you immediately suspect the Yogscast because of your preconceived notions you are essentially saying that your opinion is biased and therefore irrational.
And since it is irrational, it is also irrelevant.
can you show me a truely objective thinker? No you cannot. Every human thought is subjective. I take that back .... Babies and very young toddlers are objective but they cannot comprehend what is happening here to make any judgement. Being biased doesn't mean someone is irrational either.
If I were the Yogscast I'd be considering hiring a lawyer to sue the multimillionaire who got them to spend thousands of pounds flying to promote the millionaire's product for no compensation and who were then defamed by that same wealthy and self obsessed individual. It's up to Notch to prove that his libelous statements are true, not the Yogscast to prove they are false. So far I've yet to see any evidence that Notch's statements were anything other than false, and Notch beginning to retreat from his statements is further evidence that they have no solid basis and the Yogscast could and should sue him in the UK for libel and damages.
*facepalm Notch. I still respect him as the creator of MC but this event slead me to believe he's not someone I'd like to be a friend with or someone i'd want to work with. :/ Just my personal opinion
Also to the ddos guys.. *sigh dipshit faggot gay cocksuckers who thinks they're now some historical kind of badass.. :/ well p[lease go eat my tasty **** and die in a fire with your fathers' cocks in your asses above the eiffel ****ing tower,
I see one of two things happening, 1st that somebody in the yogscast made a completely harmless joke, and it got passed along and after idk 5-10 mouths it was twisted into something completely different. (Or somebody has a personal grudge and sent that joke down the pipeline to create tension.)
2nd: A tired notch heard one thing when something else entirely was said. Happens to people all the time.
I'm suggesting nobody really knows what happened so, lets just relax and the truth will eventually come to the surface.
3rd and most likely option a Drug induced Notch heard something that didn't happen. Most of this did happen during a party.
To all of you saying Notch was immature.. It was his TWITTER. Not like he bantered all over the front page of his website about it. It's twitter... You know, thoughts... not a company site?
The statement the Yogscast came out with is what you call a nice piece of politics. They are pulling the "Ooh poor pitiful me" with some "I have no idea what your talking about" along with a little "It was all for the community". This is all just classic sweat talk people have been using for ages. I don't see what is so hard to see about that.
From what I have seen of the Yogscast, they could very easily do all of what they are accused of. In one of there videos they were at some battleship and they crossed over the barriers and almost went and sat on one of the bomb displays. (Forgive me, I could not find the video but anyone who follows the Yogscast knows EXACTLY what i'm talking about.) That is a perfect example of the immaturity they are capable of and why the accusations are not very far-fetched.
I would like to add next that the main point of the Yogcast's presentation seemed to be how terrible minecraft is and how much better the mods in there YogBox made minecraft. Even if that was not there intention, that is how it came across. And that would make any developer furious. There behavior overall could very nearly be labeled as party crashing.
In the end though the only solid evidence we have is the Yogscast's past behavior which would fit every accusation attributed to them. But we must also take into account that it would make no sense for Notch to blatantly lie over something that could turn out so aggressive. No one would. Nor should we forget that it is a common courtesy that at public events, if your a looked up to figure, and there are young ones about; you hold your freaking tongue when giving a speech and speak like a respectable person instead of a dirty-mouthed sailor.
In the end the only logical explanation available, given what we know, is that the Yogscast played the part of the spoiled famous people and let some stuff slip when interacting with other minecraft fans which, in reaction, Notch got mad about and over reacted on twitter. If you get on someone's nerve from every possible angle then, over time, they will explode. That is exactly what happened here. What needs to happen is for the Yogscast to stop playing Captain Innocent and be the first to apologize. Just like when Daddy breaks up the fight at home, it is only right for whoever caused the fight to be the first to say i'm sorry.
If I were the Yogscast I'd be considering hiring a lawyer to sue the multimillionaire who got them to spend thousands of pounds flying to promote the millionaire's product for no compensation and who were then defamed by that same wealthy and self obsessed individual. It's up to Notch to prove that his libelous statements are true, not the Yogscast to prove they are false. So far I've yet to see any evidence that Notch's statements were anything other than false, and Notch beginning to retreat from his statements is further evidence that they have no solid basis and the Yogscast could and should sue him in the UK for libel and damages.
Well said mate. Someone should kick Notch's overgrown ego. In the balls!
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"Well to make it fair, Simon made his statement through Reddit, which is basically kind of like Twitter in a way."
They explained on the YouTube video that they would have posted it on their forum, but since it's being DDoS'd by some local ragekids - who even admitted doing it in this very thread (mods, track ip much?) - this is currently impossible.
Notch's Twitter is 1/3rd of the frontpage of Minecraft.net, along with his blog posts and Facebook fans. So yes, he did, effectively, banter all over the front page about it. He's made himself the face of Mojang, and right now it's really hurting. He needs to apologize, step back from the brand, and let someone in PR handle things.
Personally, I was planning on buying Minecraft for all my friends - and now I'm not. It isn't that I'm a Yognaut, because I'm not, but based on who started all this (quite publically) and without evidence, based on naysay, of guest speakers he invited, at great expense of their own, says a lot.
The statement the Yogscast came out with is what you call a nice piece of politics. They are pulling the "Ooh poor pitiful me" with some "I have no idea what your talking about" along with a little "It was all for the community". This is all just classic sweat talk people have been using for ages. I don't see what is so hard to see about that.
From what I have seen of the Yogscast, they could very easily do all of what they are accused of. In one of there videos they were at some battleship and they crossed over the barriers and almost went and sat on one of the bomb displays. (Forgive me, I could not find the video but anyone who follows the Yogscast knows EXACTLY what i'm talking about.) That is a perfect example of the immaturity they are capable of and why the accusations are not very far-fetched.
I would like to add next that the main point of the Yogcast's presentation seemed to be how terrible minecraft is and how much better the mods in there YogBox made minecraft. Even if that was not there intention, that is how it came across. And that would make any developer furious. There behavior overall could very nearly be labeled as party crashing.
In the end though the only solid evidence we have is the Yogscast's past behavior which would fit every accusation attributed to them. But we must also take into account that it would make no sense for Notch to blatantly lie over something that could turn out so aggressive. No one would. Nor should we forget that it is a common courtesy that at public events, if your a looked up to figure, and there are young ones about; you hold your freaking tongue when giving a speech and speak like a respectable person instead of a dirty-mouthed sailor.
In the end the only logical explanation available, given what we know, is that the Yogscast played the part of the spoiled famous people and let some stuff slip when interacting with other minecraft fans which, in reaction, Notch got mad about and over reacted on twitter. If you get on someone's nerve from every possible angle then, over time, they will explode. That is exactly what happened here. What needs to happen is for the Yogscast to stop playing Captain Innocent and be the first to apologize. Just like when Daddy breaks up the fight at home, it is only right for whoever caused the fight to be the first to say i'm sorry.
Yet Notch's only response to their denying was stating "I accept your statement" no apologies, no agreeing or disagreeing. Pretty sure it was not as you say it was with "Political smoothness." Notch is agreeing with their response and basically saying he was wrong with his statement.
As well this was all rehearsed before hand, so Notch knew the statements related to Minecraft were coming.
And yes someone would blatantly lie if they were inebriated as it changes ones view of things.
OK, let's look at this another way.
Let's assume that millions of people hang onto every word that I say. Let's also assume that I come up with some sort of... misconception about you (something that isn't true, but that I'd heard someone say and believed). For example, I question your sexuality or... I dunno, that you eat babies or something. As a direct result you are subjected to torrents of abuse from my legions of sheep like followers (see directly below for a perfect example of your average sheep), who endeavour to attack your business, harass you wherever you go and directly affect your income.
You would sue my ass into oblivion, would you not? Slander/libel laws exist for a reason, and to absolve Notch of any responsibility for his careless actions is naive at best.
I'm not suggesting that the Yogscast sue Notch at all, but come on... a proper apology is the LEAST they deserve for all of this.
What proper apology are you looking for?
"Fair enough". And that's all his response to their statement?
Who the hell he think he is? Oh wait, I forgot: HE IS NOTCH, AND HE GOTS THE MILLIONZ!
I think, we have a situation of man with his head being far up his ass here! Call an ambulance!
What the hell? You're not going to get very far if you argue with the people against your argument and those who support it. Hint, I'm in the latter category.
How about something that goes a bit further towards making amends than "I'm sorry I made this public" which is all we've seen thus far.
Let's see a joint statement once they have put their differences aside. Or if that's impossible, then at least some form of disapproval from Notch/Mojang regarding the frankly pathetic actions of an admitted minority of his community.
Hell, I'm no PR guy but there's two examples that go way farther to rectifying this whole situation than I've seen from Notch thus far. A little bit of professionalism in lieu of his hasty and unprofessional tweets would not be amiss.
I also wouldn't consider an apology on Twitter to be enough, either. How about a proper statement regarding the matter, apology or otherwise?
You're right, Notch should not apologize for the actions of others. What he should do is distance himself from the actions though. Notch is in no way responsible or liable for what people do I disagree. His actions directly led to the actions of others. Without one, the other would not have happened. Even if you don't throw a single punch, you can be guilty of incitement.
He should come out with a short statement, even twitter would work, saying he doesn't support members of the minecraft community committing illegal acts against the Yogscraft people. At the very least, ask for civil discourse while he talks things over with the Yogscast after he apologized for airing everything publicly. I agree. Mostly. (He should do it on a more professional medium than Twitter, but otherwise I agree).
Well to make it fair, Simon made his statement through Reddit, which is basically kind of like Twitter in a way. I don't mind apologies being on the internet, but Notch basically has already said 'Fair Enough' to Simon (in a positive way), indicating that he is okay with their response even though it doesn't fix what he's said about them on Twitter.
I find their 'conversation' to be rather confusing and not mixing well, as both of them are saying that they are telling the truth, but to me it seems as though the truth isn't matching up.
I guess I'm getting a bit off topic here d:
Anyway! I feel that it is the Yogscast's turn to say whether or not they are satisfied with Notch's apology. If they are satisfied, then it ends there.
That's how I see it, though. I mean, it is their situation and us going around suggesting and evaluating things doesn't really seem to matter at this point..
Notch can say what he likes as it is his opinion, but the actions of others is something that he can not control. It is the person's decision how they react to the situation, whether good, bad, or neutral. I don't think Notch should apologize due to the idiocy of others. ^-^;
Edit: Bed time. c: Good day/night, all of you.
And who started this mass hysteria?...
Proof? Otherwise your post adds nothing to the argument.
can you show me a truely objective thinker? No you cannot. Every human thought is subjective. I take that back .... Babies and very young toddlers are objective but they cannot comprehend what is happening here to make any judgement. Being biased doesn't mean someone is irrational either.
Also to the ddos guys.. *sigh dipshit faggot gay cocksuckers who thinks they're now some historical kind of badass.. :/ well p[lease go eat my tasty **** and die in a fire with your fathers' cocks in your asses above the eiffel ****ing tower,
3rd and most likely option a Drug induced Notch heard something that didn't happen. Most of this did happen during a party.
Still, Yogs was decent about the matter.
From what I have seen of the Yogscast, they could very easily do all of what they are accused of. In one of there videos they were at some battleship and they crossed over the barriers and almost went and sat on one of the bomb displays. (Forgive me, I could not find the video but anyone who follows the Yogscast knows EXACTLY what i'm talking about.) That is a perfect example of the immaturity they are capable of and why the accusations are not very far-fetched.
I would like to add next that the main point of the Yogcast's presentation seemed to be how terrible minecraft is and how much better the mods in there YogBox made minecraft. Even if that was not there intention, that is how it came across. And that would make any developer furious. There behavior overall could very nearly be labeled as party crashing.
In the end though the only solid evidence we have is the Yogscast's past behavior which would fit every accusation attributed to them. But we must also take into account that it would make no sense for Notch to blatantly lie over something that could turn out so aggressive. No one would. Nor should we forget that it is a common courtesy that at public events, if your a looked up to figure, and there are young ones about; you hold your freaking tongue when giving a speech and speak like a respectable person instead of a dirty-mouthed sailor.
In the end the only logical explanation available, given what we know, is that the Yogscast played the part of the spoiled famous people and let some stuff slip when interacting with other minecraft fans which, in reaction, Notch got mad about and over reacted on twitter. If you get on someone's nerve from every possible angle then, over time, they will explode. That is exactly what happened here. What needs to happen is for the Yogscast to stop playing Captain Innocent and be the first to apologize. Just like when Daddy breaks up the fight at home, it is only right for whoever caused the fight to be the first to say i'm sorry.
Well said mate. Someone should kick Notch's overgrown ego. In the balls!
They explained on the YouTube video that they would have posted it on their forum, but since it's being DDoS'd by some local ragekids - who even admitted doing it in this very thread (mods, track ip much?) - this is currently impossible.
Anyway, hope this blows over ASAP...
Personally, I was planning on buying Minecraft for all my friends - and now I'm not. It isn't that I'm a Yognaut, because I'm not, but based on who started all this (quite publically) and without evidence, based on naysay, of guest speakers he invited, at great expense of their own, says a lot.
This is a textbook PR disaster.
Yet Notch's only response to their denying was stating "I accept your statement" no apologies, no agreeing or disagreeing. Pretty sure it was not as you say it was with "Political smoothness." Notch is agreeing with their response and basically saying he was wrong with his statement.
As well this was all rehearsed before hand, so Notch knew the statements related to Minecraft were coming.
And yes someone would blatantly lie if they were inebriated as it changes ones view of things.