EDIT2: "We get a LOT of support errands from parents of kids that bought items for hundreds of dollars, wanting their money back."
This is a parenting issue and not a server-side administration issue.
If I created a store that sold glow-in-the-dark shoelaces and some kids stole their parents' credit cards to go buy my shoelaces, it's not my problem. Parents should:
1) Teach their kids better.
2) Stop blaming others for their failure in parenting.
3) Keep their credit cards out of reach if they have problematic children.
Why is the onus on me, the shop keeper when all I am doing is providing shoelaces? I'm not responsible for teaching their kids not to steal, nor it's my responsibility in teaching their kids the value of hard earned money.
So using this sort of excuse as a means to bring down multiplayer servers, besides the other more legitimate reason is a cop out.
But they still charge absurd amounts of cash for items, even if they do cost a lot to run. I mean, if I'm correct the pets cost absurd amounts of cash in hive and hypixel.
So what if they are charging 'absurd' amounts of cash for items? Here's the reality check:
If your favorite burger joint is charging $1000 for a quarter pound bacon burger and you think this is too expensive and unreasonable, then simply: DO NOT BUY IT.
If Best Buy or Futureshop is selling Titanfall for $500 and you think this is an absurd amount, then simply: DO NOT BUY IT.
If a random Minecraft server has policies you dislike, then simply: DO NOT JOIN IT.
If people are forking out hundreds and thousands of dollars for in-game items for a server, then that's their choice! Are the server administrators threatening their lives? Did they tell their members that they MUST buy a rank or their entire family will be assassinated? Did they threaten to reveal their secrets and private info if they don't subscribe? Did they point a gun at their face and force them to join their community?
NO ONE can force me to do something I don't want or find unreasonable. It does NOT matter what others charge for their services or products. If I find their prices ridiculous, then WHY am I STILL giving my money away to them? Does it make any sense whatsoever?
Or it could just be a piece of merch he has?
It's tomb raider memorabilia, what did you expect, a rock?
It's his choice what to have behind him when he does his videos. Putting that in the background is attaching that image to his video, and shoving it at anyone who wants to watch his video. And note that even when the mannequin's face was out of frame, those breasts stayed visible for the whole thing. If he wants a life-sized Lara Croft around his house to leer at, well, he's an adult (not all of his viewers are). He's a guy who, I assume, isn't bothered by barely-covered breasts being in continuous view. Not all of his viewers are guys, and most women (and some of the guys) are going to be bothered by having those not only shoved in their face, but attached to his commentary on stuff that's important to them as gamers and customers.
And just to forestall a certain class of comments: If you "don't understand why anyone should be bothered"... the key words there are that you don't understand. And the reason you don't understand is because you've never had to. A big part of male privilege is exactly that -- men traditionally don't have to care what women think about such things, because they can "get away with" not caring.
If you're actually interested in learning what that's about, google "male privilege" and start reading. Don't expect to be spoonfed, and especially don't start trying to tell women about their own experience, or about how they "ought" to feel. If you're not interested in learning, that's your problem (nobody's going to force you), but don't expect me, or other men like me, to respect you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
I'll say one more thing about this incident: While I haven't seen very many of Bebopvox's videos, my impression is that this is uncharacteristic of him. In the other videos by him that I've seen, he's been surrounded by Minecraft paraphernalia, and by the animations of his little robot. I'm not sure I've seen him show other games' paraphernalia before. I'd like to think that doing so now, and especially in this manner, was a matter of thoughtlessness rather than anything more noxious.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
I'll say one more thing about this incident: While I haven't seen very many of Bebopvox's videos, my impression is that this is uncharacteristic of him. In the other videos by him that I've seen, he's been surrounded by Minecraft paraphernalia, and by the animations of his little robot. I'm not sure I've seen him show other games' paraphernalia before. I'd like to think that doing so now, and especially in this manner, was a matter of thoughtlessness rather than anything more noxious.
Pretty sure that he normally uses a ...hmmm ... I guess you could say Minecraft formatted room "Minecraft Monday" for most of the videos you are talking about.
Considering that in this video you see the back of computer monitors and various gaming paraphernalia (Half-Life "Gravity Gun", "Laura Croft" mannequin, "Jabba the Hutt" toy, some kind of mech/robot) and the soundproofing of his windows, this is either his office or possibly a space at his home he has set up.
He probably just wanted a comfortable space for serious talk.
I'm pretty sure you're over-reacting.
Seeing how the minecraft related room, as said, is only used in, guess what, MINECRAFT mondays I'm pretty sure, again as said, this is a work room, again shown by soundproofed windows.
If you're going to get your panties in a knot about a piece of lara croft merch in the corner of a news video partly covered by other memorabilia, I don't think you're ready to go on youtube fully yet.
Actually, quite the opposite, I'm standing up for all the other people (many but not all women) who get hurt by this sort of thing -- who've been told "you're overreacting", and "it's just a piece of merch", and "don't get your panties in a knot", and a lot of other dismissive things... until they just stopped speaking up for themselves. I am a lot older than most folks on these forums (I'm around twice Bebobvox's age). It took me a long time to learn how to recognize this sort of problem, and longer before I could stand against it.
I don't bother arguing with random obnoxoids, or against every sexist on the net. But this isn't a random person or place. A lot of games don't bother trying to appeal to women, or they actively denigrate them, reducing them to eye candy, prizes, villains or victims. Often, their forums and chat systems allow active abuse of female gamers. To see what I mean by active abuse, try taking female identities on various fighting-games or MMORPGs, without letting them know (say, by voice) that you're actually male.
Mojang has done its best to make Minecraft appealing to girls and women, as well as boys and men, and I support them in that. Bebobvox is one of Minecraft's biggest spokesmen, for all that AFAIK he's not "official". When he makes mistakes like this, it hurts the whole Minecraft community, because he's so influential. I don't think he has any particular animus against women, but being young... well, as I said, guys don't usually get pushed to learn about these things. But if he does learn, if he's willing to learn, he'll become a better person and a better man -- and by doing so, he'll be better able to help the Minecraft and gaming communities as a whole.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
It's ironic isn't it.
Just buy a good mic and have some decent recording and editing software and you can earn loads of money, but if you put hours of hard work coding and fixing bugs you don't earn a cent.
Everyone still wondering why we get "News" via youtube? That's because videos make money, even if they aren't useful to anyone. So no, Bebobvox is not going be posting actually useful TEXT on the FORUM. Glad that's been cleared up.
I wanted to add my position here. Though I essentially blame Mojang for creating this problem, I think that trying to solve it is a good thing. I have no problems with Mojang going after these exploitative servers and trying to shut them down. I was horrified the first time I read about servers selling components from mods or even basic things from the game. However, I think its fairly obvious that there are too many servers to simply police on a case by case basis. A proper ecosystem with a central store and an API for modders and content creators would go a long way. Providing a way to monetize work and centralizing the authority is what's expected of platform owners.
Okay so first of all, I am in no way a lawyer so I have no place in speaking legality, but here is my two-cents on the situation. So I play on a pixelmon server its a really good server and im a high rank. I am a gymleader (ice type cuz ice rules all) and a mod. I did not purchase any of these ranks I earned them, now this is a bout a medium smallish server its player cap is around 80 and yes it has a shop. Thing is the items in the shop I feel are very fair (well some but I'll explain) no the most expensive thing in the shop is $100 now yes it is a bit pricey but what is it you may ask. It is one of the Ranks called the Rich kid now this sint just some fancey tag it comes with 3 legendaries and acces to higher up command (not godmode or anything insane) these commands being a backpack, mailing, hat, workbench just small commands that bring conveinice. the other things in the shop are just basic pokemon or shiny counterparts. Thing is you can find them in the wild if you hunt long enough so buying things is not mandetory and more of a get out cheap card. the pokemon also come with random stats and natures so they are just regular pokemon that could be easily taken out. Now i have bough some thing from this server it was a shiny torchic why? because torchic is my favorite starter and i bought i to show the server that I enjoy it and want to keep running never once has any of the staff said to go to the store and buy stuff. And personally the server does just fine peopkle buy if they want to but a lot of players dont and stick to surving normally. All of the items in the store can be found (may take a bit of work) in the wild naturally and the ranks I feel are very fair because they not only come with the name but access to commands and pokemon (how rare and how many commands depends on the price) but in the end I think the server runs just fine and I have never heard of an issue with people complaining about the shop. Okay yes they do charge for items but like i said they are nothing you cant get on your own for example, buying rarecandies......there is a server money system (like fake money) where you can buy them, masterballs.......the bosses in the mod drop (and the server has drop parties where the drop the things for free), claim blocks.....everyday you get like 500 more added so you can just wait, unban...once again just wait or buy if you are really that desperate so as you can see these item purchases are more or less if you wanted to support the server and get a perk with it, there was no if you want this you have to buy. If only more servers could be like this tho then maybe we wouldnt have this issue.
I had some fun reading this thread and ofc, I have to give my 2 cents, too:
* It is a parents responsibility to educate their children. If a child steals a credit card, this is theft and there are ways to prevent that and/or get compensation
* In Germany, we have a law which entitles parents to reverse a transaction of a minor child if the value of that transaction exceeds the childs regular pocket money. If the child misuses the credit card to buy items for a few hundred dollars or more, they can get it back. Sadly, if the server operates from outside Germany, that doesn't help much.
* Asking for donations to operate a server is free. If you get something in return for a donation which enhances your gameplay makes it a purchase.
* Making money from operating a server is legitimate business. Actually, you are selling IP packets ...
* Everyone is greedy, this is an age old survival instinct. Soem of us can use their mind to override instincts. So, in-game purchases work better than a monthly subscription, because most people see the $0 price tag only and don't realize what happens when they buy soemthing in game for a small amount of money (again to obtain something they want). Some server operators maximize their profit that way.
* Allowing the market to regulate itself is a good idea, if the market is broken, external intervention is needed.
* A discussion about some memorabilia in the background showing Lara Crofts breasts is amusing. In some cultures, this is as offending as handing fire-arms to civilians (and worse, children) is to me. (Hmm, Lara croft also has big guns...). However, we should be able to accept that there are different cultures out there.
If someone at Mojang would ask for my opinion:
* I would allow modders to profit from their mods the same way youtubers can profit, e.g. by showing ads, by asking for donations and even by selling their mods. A central mod list with votes could help people to pinpoint the black sheep
* I would allow server operators to earn money via subscriptions and in-game purchases as long as they're not limiting the games functionality and you have to pay to get access to the same resources. A central server list with price information could help the market. Maybe even voting (for registered users) would be a good idea to find "good" servers
One note aside: I am running a couple of servers (mostly web servers) for different purposes, I am making money of some and I am sponsoring others (especially web sites for non-profit organisations). For me, Minecraft is a hobby and I am willing to spend some money for having fun. Operating a Minecraft server is part of that hobby and I can pay for the server cost. If someone donates to support this, thats nice. If someone says "Thank you", thats nice, too. But I would operate the server anyways. Its just more pleasant if you get recognition.
Thank you Mojang for cracking down on pay2win servers.
Those that are raging over servers probably have a server like this or play on one and have paid for the "perks" but I'll give a scenerio here as to how these kind of servers are "unfair" to users.
Say you have a pvp server that is part free members and part "gold" members. You get a gold membership by donating 50 dollars and with your donation you get a full set of enchanted diamond armor and weapons, as well as some potions like potion of strength or potion of invisibility...maybe some golden apples even... all the better to "smite" your enemies with yes?
Now say you are a free player, you have been on this server a few weeks, have your epic base, got a good team going too to keep the enemies at bay. All of you do not pay to play and one of them decides to betray and goes to another group. You may get a bit butthurt over it because they destroyed such and such of your base or stole some items so you decide to go kill them for "revenge" or whatever. You succeed, then they are angry or their team is and want to get their "revenge" on you. One or maybe several of them on their team decide to pay for memberships and now in just 1 second they are completely OP and undefeatable to you with your little protection III diamond armor against diamond armor and weapons that is all with the best enchants and golden apples to keep themselves from dying... You stand little chance in defeating them. It is hopeless and then your base is destroyed, all your items are stolen, and you are killed numerous times trying to respawn. How is this fair?
The same goes to those groups in Pvp where they will only allow users in their base that have paid on the server in order to always keep their high status and slaughter whatever little bases are in their path. I don't see how that is "fair" either.
Mojang hasn't totally eliminated donation to servers. You may donate to a server still purely because you like it and get nothing in return from it. You may donate to a server that is only open to those that pay and does not have a "tier" of rankings and you may donate to a server for "cosmetic" only items and I assume resources as well like a special glittering golden particle tree sapling or something.
By cosmetic Mojang means items in game that will give a user no more of an advantage over another user. You may allow users that donate 20 dollars give you items that look like a particular something but serves no purpose other than to "look pretty"
The only problem I see with this system is Modders and Texture makers will need to make these "cosmetic" items. This poses a problem and I'll say why in another scenario here.
Say you are hosting a server and you want to have a series of "mounts" or "pets" at the lowest tier of speed if its a mount (so user gets no perks with this and its just there to "look pretty") and you have ideas in terms of dinosaur pets. Of course should you choose an animal sort of "cosmetic item" you better make every pet on that server incapable of dying just like all other cosmetic items that are paid for should not be dropped upon death.... Anyway... you have no artistic or coding talent at all to make this so you have to ask a Modder and/or Texture artist to somehow give to you FOR FREE these items because charging for mods and textures is illegal and somehow you are to make money off your server by selling items they give to you "for free". I don't see that going very well. I think at the very least they should be allowed "commissions" like I do as an artist with my artwork and this is saying where you make it once and do not distribute it among any other players because that is making a profit in an entirely wrong way that Mojang wants to avoid.
More or less, Mojang is making all players in a server equal. That's not a bad thing. I like what Mojang is doing with this but I don't see the "only cosmetic items" donations being a thing unless the server owner/staff already have good knowledge in coding or making textures. The Artists and Coders that make everything for them need to have a little more leniency in rules for this to work. I'm not saying have them make a popular mod and distribute it to EVERYONE and the only way those users can play it is to pay for the download. That's pretty much the same thing they are trying to get rid of with servers so obviously that is a no. I'm saying that if someone with a server needs a particular mod or texture, they should be able to "commission" from this person mods or textures exclusive to only their server and it would ONLY be used on this ONE server because the owner paid for it and its only theirs. Those of you that buy from artists commissioned OC art will understand where I'm going with this. Your OC is yours, you do not want the artist to distribute the art of your OC among other people to make cash off it.
Note that Mojang have said Servers can make money as long as it's not absurd.
Note that this is not what Mojang said...
Quote from The message from Mojang »
if the stuff you sell affects gameplay, we’re not cool with it.
Preventing server owners from providing any incentive to buy anything is not the same as preventing server owners from selling absurd things for absurd prices.
The majority of the community will most likely agree with me on the notion that it is not absurd for a player to be able to pay a reasonable amount of money and get a reasonable perk in return. Absurdity is when a server owner charges, for example, 1000 USD for a pickaxe that never breaks.
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I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
Preventing server owners from providing any incentive to buy anything is not the same as preventing server owners from selling absurd things for absurd prices.
The majority of the community will most likely agree with me on the notion that it is not absurd for a player to be able to pay a reasonable amount of money and get a reasonable perk in return. Absurdity is when a server owner charges, for example, 1000 USD for a pickaxe that never breaks.
The problem is that the players run the gamut from kids (or unemployed adults) in their parents' basement, to wealthy professionals. A price that's "reasonable" for one person (say, $10/set for iron armor, or $100/set for diamond) can easily be extortionate for another. And it's not fair when being employed in the RW means you can afford much better equipment in-game.
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I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
The problem is that the players run the gamut from kids (or unemployed adults) in their parents' basement, to wealthy professionals. A price that's "reasonable" for one person (say, $10/set for iron armor, or $100/set for diamond) can easily be extortionate for another. And it's not fair when being employed in the RW means you can afford much better equipment in-game.
Indeed. That said, I was simply stating that it is not absurd for a player to be able to buy perks and benefits on a server, not that reasonable prices are easy to settle on.
The only way, however, that I think this could possibly work without absolute exploitation if if Mojang create a kind of in-game "Store" with a range of official "perks" and stuff.
Server owners have the ability to hide any item from the store, and can control how much each item costs, WITHIN a range determined by Mojang and the community. Building from this, the server owner may be able to add their own commands and items etc to the store, but these things would have to take preset values (aka, Tier 1 command = $X, tier 2 command = $Y, etc). The vast majority, if not all of the revenue, goes to the server owner (imo Mojang would be justified in keeping a few cents per transaction, since it would cost them to make a shop like this).
Now to address your point, we can add a secondary currency mechanic (to somewhat equalize people with different amounts of spending power). Basically, we add something called the "MC Coin" as a 100% official vanilla in-game currency. Items in the store now cost real money AND coins. Coins are earned over time by players, and perhaps for doing specific in game things, however while a server owner can control their value, and the rate at which players get them, these coins can't be sold. This means that rich people still need MC coins to buy things, meaning they can only spend their riches as fast as unemployed 37 year old basement lurkers can spend their allowance.
Sure, it still has flaws, but at least it stops servers from charging 10k USD for a warp location, while still allowing good servers to sell perks etc freely at "reasonable prices". Note that existing sales systems wouldn't necessarily be broken, they would just remain subject to the "no benefits" policy thing.
It is important to note that this relies very heavily on the initial "choose a reasonable price" phase. If this phase is done well, the system will work well. If this phase is botched, then the system will be fundamentally corrupt to begin with.
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I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
Seriously Mojang what are you doing! This issue has caused me to create an account and put my voice out there.
Mojang you might be destroying the minecraft community that has been thriving for almost 3-4 years. These servers are making the game more popular in their own way. It is encouraging people to go from cracked to Premium so they can play on these big servers and fun servers. Making it so you can't get incentives means people won't donate. Its how people work , deal with it. There really aren't that many nice people on the internet that are like, "I really like this server so ill donate because it a good thing to do." If people want to buy virtual items and be OP let them I don't see what the problem is because all they are doing is spending real currency to pay for a video game , its their choice. If you are a person that doesn't like play to win servers then don't join it. JUST DONT JOIN THE SERVER. I would like to also touch on the subject about possibly "charging players to join your server" , this would not work because what if you think this server is good but it turns out to suck. If you join and don't like the server its a waste of money. If the servers start to collapse and people stop buying or playing the game , minecraft will be a very very low populated game.
Please note this is my opinion about this subject and yours may be different. I respect every opinion , and you are directly entitled to your opinion.
In the period of a couple years, the minecraft community has totally gone downhill. It went from mostly smaller to medium sized servers, to massive paywall servers with many of the smaller servers trying to emulate a similar paywall structure that the larger servers had. All this because of greed, money. A game was "Capitalized" even further, and for all the wrong reasons. Its gotten so bad that at least half of the servers that host 50 players or smaller that I've been on in the last 2 months have some sort of pay-to-win structure. This isn't minecraft. And I don't think anyone agrees this makes the game more fun for anybody.
This is a parenting issue and not a server-side administration issue.
If I created a store that sold glow-in-the-dark shoelaces and some kids stole their parents' credit cards to go buy my shoelaces, it's not my problem. Parents should:
1) Teach their kids better.
2) Stop blaming others for their failure in parenting.
3) Keep their credit cards out of reach if they have problematic children.
Why is the onus on me, the shop keeper when all I am doing is providing shoelaces? I'm not responsible for teaching their kids not to steal, nor it's my responsibility in teaching their kids the value of hard earned money.
So using this sort of excuse as a means to bring down multiplayer servers, besides the other more legitimate reason is a cop out.
So what if they are charging 'absurd' amounts of cash for items? Here's the reality check:
If your favorite burger joint is charging $1000 for a quarter pound bacon burger and you think this is too expensive and unreasonable, then simply: DO NOT BUY IT.
If Best Buy or Futureshop is selling Titanfall for $500 and you think this is an absurd amount, then simply: DO NOT BUY IT.
If a random Minecraft server has policies you dislike, then simply: DO NOT JOIN IT.
If people are forking out hundreds and thousands of dollars for in-game items for a server, then that's their choice! Are the server administrators threatening their lives? Did they tell their members that they MUST buy a rank or their entire family will be assassinated? Did they threaten to reveal their secrets and private info if they don't subscribe? Did they point a gun at their face and force them to join their community?
NO ONE can force me to do something I don't want or find unreasonable. It does NOT matter what others charge for their services or products. If I find their prices ridiculous, then WHY am I STILL giving my money away to them? Does it make any sense whatsoever?
Comic Sans is the best
It's his choice what to have behind him when he does his videos. Putting that in the background is attaching that image to his video, and shoving it at anyone who wants to watch his video. And note that even when the mannequin's face was out of frame, those breasts stayed visible for the whole thing. If he wants a life-sized Lara Croft around his house to leer at, well, he's an adult (not all of his viewers are). He's a guy who, I assume, isn't bothered by barely-covered breasts being in continuous view. Not all of his viewers are guys, and most women (and some of the guys) are going to be bothered by having those not only shoved in their face, but attached to his commentary on stuff that's important to them as gamers and customers.
And just to forestall a certain class of comments: If you "don't understand why anyone should be bothered"... the key words there are that you don't understand. And the reason you don't understand is because you've never had to. A big part of male privilege is exactly that -- men traditionally don't have to care what women think about such things, because they can "get away with" not caring.
If you're actually interested in learning what that's about, google "male privilege" and start reading. Don't expect to be spoonfed, and especially don't start trying to tell women about their own experience, or about how they "ought" to feel. If you're not interested in learning, that's your problem (nobody's going to force you), but don't expect me, or other men like me, to respect you.
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Curse PremiumPretty sure that he normally uses a ...hmmm ... I guess you could say Minecraft formatted room "Minecraft Monday" for most of the videos you are talking about.
Considering that in this video you see the back of computer monitors and various gaming paraphernalia (Half-Life "Gravity Gun", "Laura Croft" mannequin, "Jabba the Hutt" toy, some kind of mech/robot) and the soundproofing of his windows, this is either his office or possibly a space at his home he has set up.
He probably just wanted a comfortable space for serious talk.
Actually, quite the opposite, I'm standing up for all the other people (many but not all women) who get hurt by this sort of thing -- who've been told "you're overreacting", and "it's just a piece of merch", and "don't get your panties in a knot", and a lot of other dismissive things... until they just stopped speaking up for themselves. I am a lot older than most folks on these forums (I'm around twice Bebobvox's age). It took me a long time to learn how to recognize this sort of problem, and longer before I could stand against it.
I don't bother arguing with random obnoxoids, or against every sexist on the net. But this isn't a random person or place. A lot of games don't bother trying to appeal to women, or they actively denigrate them, reducing them to eye candy, prizes, villains or victims. Often, their forums and chat systems allow active abuse of female gamers. To see what I mean by active abuse, try taking female identities on various fighting-games or MMORPGs, without letting them know (say, by voice) that you're actually male.
Mojang has done its best to make Minecraft appealing to girls and women, as well as boys and men, and I support them in that. Bebobvox is one of Minecraft's biggest spokesmen, for all that AFAIK he's not "official". When he makes mistakes like this, it hurts the whole Minecraft community, because he's so influential. I don't think he has any particular animus against women, but being young... well, as I said, guys don't usually get pushed to learn about these things. But if he does learn, if he's willing to learn, he'll become a better person and a better man -- and by doing so, he'll be better able to help the Minecraft and gaming communities as a whole.
Everyone still wondering why we get "News" via youtube? That's because videos make money, even if they aren't useful to anyone. So no, Bebobvox is not going be posting actually useful TEXT on the FORUM. Glad that's been cleared up.
I wanted to add my position here. Though I essentially blame Mojang for creating this problem, I think that trying to solve it is a good thing. I have no problems with Mojang going after these exploitative servers and trying to shut them down. I was horrified the first time I read about servers selling components from mods or even basic things from the game. However, I think its fairly obvious that there are too many servers to simply police on a case by case basis. A proper ecosystem with a central store and an API for modders and content creators would go a long way. Providing a way to monetize work and centralizing the authority is what's expected of platform owners.
* It is a parents responsibility to educate their children. If a child steals a credit card, this is theft and there are ways to prevent that and/or get compensation
* In Germany, we have a law which entitles parents to reverse a transaction of a minor child if the value of that transaction exceeds the childs regular pocket money. If the child misuses the credit card to buy items for a few hundred dollars or more, they can get it back. Sadly, if the server operates from outside Germany, that doesn't help much.
* Asking for donations to operate a server is free. If you get something in return for a donation which enhances your gameplay makes it a purchase.
* Making money from operating a server is legitimate business. Actually, you are selling IP packets ...
* Everyone is greedy, this is an age old survival instinct. Soem of us can use their mind to override instincts. So, in-game purchases work better than a monthly subscription, because most people see the $0 price tag only and don't realize what happens when they buy soemthing in game for a small amount of money (again to obtain something they want). Some server operators maximize their profit that way.
* Allowing the market to regulate itself is a good idea, if the market is broken, external intervention is needed.
* A discussion about some memorabilia in the background showing Lara Crofts breasts is amusing. In some cultures, this is as offending as handing fire-arms to civilians (and worse, children) is to me. (Hmm, Lara croft also has big guns...). However, we should be able to accept that there are different cultures out there.
If someone at Mojang would ask for my opinion:
* I would allow modders to profit from their mods the same way youtubers can profit, e.g. by showing ads, by asking for donations and even by selling their mods. A central mod list with votes could help people to pinpoint the black sheep
* I would allow server operators to earn money via subscriptions and in-game purchases as long as they're not limiting the games functionality and you have to pay to get access to the same resources. A central server list with price information could help the market. Maybe even voting (for registered users) would be a good idea to find "good" servers
One note aside: I am running a couple of servers (mostly web servers) for different purposes, I am making money of some and I am sponsoring others (especially web sites for non-profit organisations). For me, Minecraft is a hobby and I am willing to spend some money for having fun. Operating a Minecraft server is part of that hobby and I can pay for the server cost. If someone donates to support this, thats nice. If someone says "Thank you", thats nice, too. But I would operate the server anyways. Its just more pleasant if you get recognition.
Those that are raging over servers probably have a server like this or play on one and have paid for the "perks" but I'll give a scenerio here as to how these kind of servers are "unfair" to users.
Say you have a pvp server that is part free members and part "gold" members. You get a gold membership by donating 50 dollars and with your donation you get a full set of enchanted diamond armor and weapons, as well as some potions like potion of strength or potion of invisibility...maybe some golden apples even... all the better to "smite" your enemies with yes?
Now say you are a free player, you have been on this server a few weeks, have your epic base, got a good team going too to keep the enemies at bay. All of you do not pay to play and one of them decides to betray and goes to another group. You may get a bit butthurt over it because they destroyed such and such of your base or stole some items so you decide to go kill them for "revenge" or whatever. You succeed, then they are angry or their team is and want to get their "revenge" on you. One or maybe several of them on their team decide to pay for memberships and now in just 1 second they are completely OP and undefeatable to you with your little protection III diamond armor against diamond armor and weapons that is all with the best enchants and golden apples to keep themselves from dying... You stand little chance in defeating them. It is hopeless and then your base is destroyed, all your items are stolen, and you are killed numerous times trying to respawn. How is this fair?
The same goes to those groups in Pvp where they will only allow users in their base that have paid on the server in order to always keep their high status and slaughter whatever little bases are in their path. I don't see how that is "fair" either.
Mojang hasn't totally eliminated donation to servers. You may donate to a server still purely because you like it and get nothing in return from it. You may donate to a server that is only open to those that pay and does not have a "tier" of rankings and you may donate to a server for "cosmetic" only items and I assume resources as well like a special glittering golden particle tree sapling or something.
By cosmetic Mojang means items in game that will give a user no more of an advantage over another user. You may allow users that donate 20 dollars give you items that look like a particular something but serves no purpose other than to "look pretty"
The only problem I see with this system is Modders and Texture makers will need to make these "cosmetic" items. This poses a problem and I'll say why in another scenario here.
Say you are hosting a server and you want to have a series of "mounts" or "pets" at the lowest tier of speed if its a mount (so user gets no perks with this and its just there to "look pretty") and you have ideas in terms of dinosaur pets. Of course should you choose an animal sort of "cosmetic item" you better make every pet on that server incapable of dying just like all other cosmetic items that are paid for should not be dropped upon death.... Anyway... you have no artistic or coding talent at all to make this so you have to ask a Modder and/or Texture artist to somehow give to you FOR FREE these items because charging for mods and textures is illegal and somehow you are to make money off your server by selling items they give to you "for free". I don't see that going very well. I think at the very least they should be allowed "commissions" like I do as an artist with my artwork and this is saying where you make it once and do not distribute it among any other players because that is making a profit in an entirely wrong way that Mojang wants to avoid.
More or less, Mojang is making all players in a server equal. That's not a bad thing. I like what Mojang is doing with this but I don't see the "only cosmetic items" donations being a thing unless the server owner/staff already have good knowledge in coding or making textures. The Artists and Coders that make everything for them need to have a little more leniency in rules for this to work. I'm not saying have them make a popular mod and distribute it to EVERYONE and the only way those users can play it is to pay for the download. That's pretty much the same thing they are trying to get rid of with servers so obviously that is a no. I'm saying that if someone with a server needs a particular mod or texture, they should be able to "commission" from this person mods or textures exclusive to only their server and it would ONLY be used on this ONE server because the owner paid for it and its only theirs. Those of you that buy from artists commissioned OC art will understand where I'm going with this. Your OC is yours, you do not want the artist to distribute the art of your OC among other people to make cash off it.
Note that this is not what Mojang said...
Preventing server owners from providing any incentive to buy anything is not the same as preventing server owners from selling absurd things for absurd prices.
The majority of the community will most likely agree with me on the notion that it is not absurd for a player to be able to pay a reasonable amount of money and get a reasonable perk in return. Absurdity is when a server owner charges, for example, 1000 USD for a pickaxe that never breaks.
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
The problem is that the players run the gamut from kids (or unemployed adults) in their parents' basement, to wealthy professionals. A price that's "reasonable" for one person (say, $10/set for iron armor, or $100/set for diamond) can easily be extortionate for another. And it's not fair when being employed in the RW means you can afford much better equipment in-game.
Indeed. That said, I was simply stating that it is not absurd for a player to be able to buy perks and benefits on a server, not that reasonable prices are easy to settle on.
The only way, however, that I think this could possibly work without absolute exploitation if if Mojang create a kind of in-game "Store" with a range of official "perks" and stuff.
Server owners have the ability to hide any item from the store, and can control how much each item costs, WITHIN a range determined by Mojang and the community. Building from this, the server owner may be able to add their own commands and items etc to the store, but these things would have to take preset values (aka, Tier 1 command = $X, tier 2 command = $Y, etc). The vast majority, if not all of the revenue, goes to the server owner (imo Mojang would be justified in keeping a few cents per transaction, since it would cost them to make a shop like this).
Now to address your point, we can add a secondary currency mechanic (to somewhat equalize people with different amounts of spending power). Basically, we add something called the "MC Coin" as a 100% official vanilla in-game currency. Items in the store now cost real money AND coins. Coins are earned over time by players, and perhaps for doing specific in game things, however while a server owner can control their value, and the rate at which players get them, these coins can't be sold. This means that rich people still need MC coins to buy things, meaning they can only spend their riches as fast as unemployed 37 year old basement lurkers can spend their allowance.
Sure, it still has flaws, but at least it stops servers from charging 10k USD for a warp location, while still allowing good servers to sell perks etc freely at "reasonable prices". Note that existing sales systems wouldn't necessarily be broken, they would just remain subject to the "no benefits" policy thing.
It is important to note that this relies very heavily on the initial "choose a reasonable price" phase. If this phase is done well, the system will work well. If this phase is botched, then the system will be fundamentally corrupt to begin with.
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
Mojang you might be destroying the minecraft community that has been thriving for almost 3-4 years. These servers are making the game more popular in their own way. It is encouraging people to go from cracked to Premium so they can play on these big servers and fun servers. Making it so you can't get incentives means people won't donate. Its how people work , deal with it. There really aren't that many nice people on the internet that are like, "I really like this server so ill donate because it a good thing to do." If people want to buy virtual items and be OP let them I don't see what the problem is because all they are doing is spending real currency to pay for a video game , its their choice. If you are a person that doesn't like play to win servers then don't join it. JUST DONT JOIN THE SERVER. I would like to also touch on the subject about possibly "charging players to join your server" , this would not work because what if you think this server is good but it turns out to suck. If you join and don't like the server its a waste of money. If the servers start to collapse and people stop buying or playing the game , minecraft will be a very very low populated game.
Please note this is my opinion about this subject and yours may be different. I respect every opinion , and you are directly entitled to your opinion.