No, because even modders should have to expect to conduct themselves within the law. They don't like it when a mod is "stolen" and used by another modder inside another mod and they would probably be upset if 4J just incorporated mods without getting the appropriate permissions to use them, so why would modders expect that they should be able to steal content created by 4J for the Xbox and put it onto the PC?
My apologies. It's late and i'm reading forums. I have to say this.
While, yes, modders are held to copyright standards and simply aren't allowed to steal one another's work, i don't believe it's possible for 4J to come up with new content that hasn't been in or suggested by a PC mod already. The PC modding community is huge, growing, has done everything that can be thought of, and is always finding a new way to do even more new stuff. PC modding is it's own creature and it's evolving at hyper-speed. Also, legally, if 4J did come up with truly new content, it wouldn't violate any laws for a PC modder to release the exact same thing. The coding between the two versions is entirely different therefore modders couldn't be sued for stealing. Besides, right now 4J is stuck using default textures at 16 and 32 bit while many PC modders often create their own textures, which generally range from 64 bit to high definition. Different code + different look = no copyright infringment. This logic works in reverse, too. 4J Studios can add whatever they want, whether it's inspired directly from a PC mod or merely from the idea of one. The grey area legally would be if a PC modder or 4J were to take code from one and directly port to the other. I've been told that process is such a headache, working from scratch would be easiest. However, 4J or a modder writing it for themselves from scratch means it wasn't stolen. From anyone. Don't believe me? Do some research. (I'll even loan you my business law books, if you would like to travel because they weigh a ton and travelling would come much cheaper than shipping. Haha.)
[/end of business ethics lesson (rant)]
From my point of view, i hope i get to see some of these "new" things in Minecraft 360 before 4J Studios has to focus only on the One version. Of course, i'm an oddity. We have all three versions of Minecraft - PC, PE, and 360. Yea, i'm addicted to Minecraft. Haha.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~My problem is a simple one: I'm severely allergic to stupid.~
My apologies. It's late and i'm reading forums. I have to say this.
While, yes, modders are held to copyright standards and simply aren't allowed to steal one another's work, i don't believe it's possible for 4J to come up with new content that hasn't been in or suggested by a PC mod already. The PC modding community is huge, growing, has done everything that can be thought of, and is always finding a new way to do even more new stuff. PC modding is it's own creature and it's evolving at hyper-speed. Also, legally, if 4J did come up with truly new content, it wouldn't violate any laws for a PC modder to release the exact same thing. The coding between the two versions is entirely different therefore modders couldn't be sued for stealing. Besides, right now 4J is stuck using default textures at 16 and 32 bit while many PC modders often create their own textures, which generally range from 64 bit to high definition. Different code + different look = no copyright infringment. This logic works in reverse, too. 4J Studios can add whatever they want, whether it's inspired directly from a PC mod or merely from the idea of one. The grey area legally would be if a PC modder or 4J were to take code from one and directly port to the other. I've been told that process is such a headache, working from scratch would be easiest. However, 4J or a modder writing it for themselves from scratch means it wasn't stolen. From anyone. Don't believe me? Do some research. (I'll even loan you my business law books, if you would like to travel because they weigh a ton and travelling would come much cheaper than shipping. Haha.)
[/end of business ethics lesson (rant)]
From my point of view, i hope i get to see some of these "new" things in Minecraft 360 before 4J Studios has to focus only on the One version. Of course, i'm an oddity. We have all three versions of Minecraft - PC, PE, and 360. Yea, i'm addicted to Minecraft. Haha.
Before ranting, try reading... The limits of what may or may not be legitimately copied under the various legislations worldwide varies quite a bit and my post did not go into that since the parties involved would have to decide what might represent a successful lawsuit or not or what sort of settlement they might reach, etc. It's a individual case by case sort of thing. The reality is that most copyright infringements are never pursued by the copyright holders through the courts.
Business ethics, however, involves adhering to a moral code of behavior and the cavalier attitudes of some modders expressed that they can just essentially copy anything that 4J might create with the implication, therefore, that 4J just shouldn't bother creating it IS what I was objecting to. No one in business should just expect that they can freely copy someone else's work and then use that as a "threat" to intimidate and limit the creativity of those other businesses. If all the good ideas are indeed already used up as you seemed to be professing... I guess we should just collapse all the suggestion threads and just stick with what we already have forever. Using your reverse logic, why do modders even bother to enter into a modding agreement (i.e. Terms of Use that also includes Brand Use Guidelines - https://minecraft.net/terms) with Mojang... they can just do whatever they want anyway, right?
Also, a game is more than it's computer language... it consists of artwork and other creatively expressed elements that would also fall under copyright protection in some jurisdictions regardless of what computer language they are written in.
ETA: No need to travel to borrow your business texts, there are several websites that have the appropropriate legislation available. E.G. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/
The "it's own path" was bandied about when the game first came out, and hasn't been mentioned, to my knowledge, by official channels since. I do think maybe Notch referred to it at some point, that basically the game couldn't be changed so much anyway, it would have to be recogniseably Minecraft.
I don't think anyone back then, even on Minecraft's success to that point, really considered that it was going to be this monster success on console as well. If anything the console version has also driven further sales of the PC and Mobile version, by raising awareness with new groups of people.
As for copyrighting mod ideas, it would have to be something really different. Maybe in some cases, eg the piston, where I understand Mojang worked with the guy who came up with that. the piston block has this utterly profound effect on the game. if someone made a mod that was cats, and went "I invented cats" it would be ridiculous. Anyone could add a heaven dimension to the game because it is an utterly obvious idea, but you wouldn't just wholesale lift the Aether mod without credit to the guy who made that.
In the US and in many other jurisdictions, copyrights automatically come into existence the moment a physical expression of the creation is made. Ideas in and of themselves do not have copyrights associated with them. It is the physical expressions of those ideas that are associated with copyrights. The act of registering an official copyright does not have to exist for the copyrights to be enforcible. The copyright holder, however, does have to initiate action against infringements... that is, it is not like other forms of theft where law enforcement and the Crown can initiate charges against the accused.
Before ranting, try reading... The limits of what may or may not be legitimately copied under the various legislations worldwide varies quite a bit and my post did not go into that since the parties involved would have to decide what might represent a successful lawsuit or not or what sort of settlement they might reach, etc. It's a individual case by case sort of thing. The reality is that most copyright infringements are never pursued by the copyright holders through the courts.
Business ethics, however, involves adhering to a moral code of behavior and the cavalier attitudes of some modders expressed that they can just essentially copy anything that 4J might create with the implication, therefore, that 4J just shouldn't bother creating it IS what I was objecting to. No one in business should just expect that they can freely copy someone else's work and then use that as a "threat" to intimidate and limit the creativity of those other businesses. If all the good ideas are indeed already used up as you seemed to be professing... I guess we should just collapse all the suggestion threads and just stick with what we already have forever. Using your reverse logic, why do modders even bother to enter into a modding agreement (i.e. Terms of Use that also includes Brand Use Guidelines - https://minecraft.net/terms) with Mojang... they can just do whatever they want anyway, right?
The agreement is to keep modders from using anything created by Mojang and to prevent redistribution of those things. That's it. Mojang gets us to agree to it, too, to protect themselves, since there are no official international copyright laws.
I also never said to close a forum or that 4J shouldn't try to come up with something new. I pointed out my opinion that i don't believe there is anything completely new to do when it comes to modding Minecraft. I also even pointed out it all should be legal even if there is a PC mod which is similiar or even the same.
4J Studios is not based here in the US and i would be willing to bet many of the modders are from here. There are no international copyright laws. Right now in the US, most computer-based copyright determinations centeralize on intellectual property and fair use. Unless by some far-fetched chance someone actually patented a mod idea along with ALL of it's possible variations, there couldn't even be a grounds for suit for all of the reasons i outlined before.
Also, a game is more than it's computer language... it consists of artwork and other creatively expressed elements that would also fall under copyright protection in some jurisdictions regardless of what computer language they are written in.
Which i acknowledged in what i wrote. You should read that. I rarely write so well so late at night.
ETA: No need to travel to borrow your business texts, there are several websites that have the appropropriate legislation available. E.G. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/
Different countries, different laws, but i focus on the laws here in the US since, should my rights/ownships/etc ever be violated, i would file suit here. You're right, my books wouldn't be so up-to-date, so thanks for the link, but you may find these more useful, informative, and inclusive:
The agreement is to keep modders from using anything created by Mojang and to prevent redistribution of those things. That's it. Mojang gets us to agree to it, too, to protect themselves, since there are no official international copyright laws.
The agreement is there to inform modders of what rights Mojang is granting them free use of and what rights they are retaining for themselves. If Mojang has a right to grant permission for use of their work, it's stands to reason that 4J has a right to opt to either grant permission for others to use their work or not and modders have a right to grant permission for their work to be copied or not. My point was that if copyright was such a free for all as you suggested by saying that 4J (and anyone else) can do whatever they want, Mojang would not have had to take to the step to tell people such things that they allow them to post videos using Minecraft footage but not for alluding to mods in such a way as they appear to be official. By inserting those statements into their Terms of Service, they are making it clear to modders that they are, in effect, waiving some, but not all of the copyrights they already have implied by the laws of whatever jurisdictions they feel they fall under and it clearly states that they retain the right to determine for themselves what is a plugin, etc. and what is not... and using the game is what, in effect, represents the signing of the agreement by the game players and modders.
You admit that there are no international copyright laws; but you should also perhaps consider that many of them are enforced through international treaties. My point was that to say that this and that is or isn't copyright infringment without the specifics of the case involved is not appropriate. Each case would be an individual thing. No one can accurately make blanket claims that modders could just copy any of 4Js unique developments to the game since it would depend on what, how much and exactly how the work was copied and, in the US at least, whether or not 4J opted to press the issue.
In the US and in many other jurisdictions, copyrights automatically come into existence the moment a physical expression of the creation is made. Ideas in and of themselves do not have copyrights associated with them. It is the physical expressions of those ideas that are associated with copyrights. The act of registering an official copyright does not have to exist for the copyrights to be enforcible. The copyright holder, however, does have to initiate action against infringements... that is, it is not like other forms of theft where law enforcement and the Crown can initiate charges against the accused.
You give the US too much credit. Here, enforcement of copyright still gets hung up on the "physical exspression of the creation" when it comes to computer/data based copyrights in conjunction with the law. Unfortunately, our government has been rather slow to change in this arena and justice is usually only found for those with the deepest pockets for lawyers, regardless of whether they're the complaintant or defendant. Worse is, in the US. copyright complaints are rarely handled by federal courts, so precedents, while useful, are only changing common law in idividual states and or local municipalities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~My problem is a simple one: I'm severely allergic to stupid.~
I also never said to close a forum or that 4J shouldn't try to come up with something new. I pointed out my opinion that i don't believe there is anything completely new to do when it comes to modding Minecraft. I also even pointed out it all should be legal even if there is a PC mod which is similiar or even the same.
I know you never said to close the forum and it was the poster I was originally responding to with my post who implied that 4J shouldn't bother creating exclusive content because modders could just copy it. Again, when it comes to copyrights - what should be legal and what is legal can only be discussed intelligently when very specific case elements are known. You slammed me as if I had no knowledge of the laws... when what I did was only comment on the morality and fairness of expecting to adhere to and respect copyrights as opposed to expecting to be able to intimidate creativity by the threat of not respecting copyrights and the creative efforts of others.
You give the US too much credit. Here, enforcement of copyright still gets hung up on the "physical exspression of the creation" when it comes to computer/data based copyrights in conjunction with the law. Unfortunately, our government has been rather slow to change in this arena and justice is usually only found for those with the deepest pockets for lawyers, regardless of whether they're the complaintant or defendant. Worse is, in the US. copyright complaints are rarely handled by federal courts, so precedents, while useful, are only changing common law in idividual states and or local municipalities.
I am not giving any government credit for anything since there was no indication what happens in the courts other than stating the fact that most copyright cases never get taken through the courts (in the previous post). We could discuss why this is the case for volumes, but it's not necessary. I was merely correcting the impression ubergine was giving that copyright had to be applied for (the acting of copyrighting something) when in many jurisdictions, including but not limited to the US, it takes effect the moment the idea is expressed in a concrete physical form.
The agreement is there ...snipped... opted to press the issue.
You're overthinking it, but you're not wrong either. Neither am i. I'm merely being more simple about it. You and i are too smart for our own good and likely should get out of the proverbial sandbox before we start bashing each other with our pails. The other kids might get scared. Haha. It was fun talking to you though. Good on you! Later!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~My problem is a simple one: I'm severely allergic to stupid.~
If they were to give us a little things like that it would still set it apart from PC with out it being completely different.
While, yes, modders are held to copyright standards and simply aren't allowed to steal one another's work, i don't believe it's possible for 4J to come up with new content that hasn't been in or suggested by a PC mod already. The PC modding community is huge, growing, has done everything that can be thought of, and is always finding a new way to do even more new stuff. PC modding is it's own creature and it's evolving at hyper-speed. Also, legally, if 4J did come up with truly new content, it wouldn't violate any laws for a PC modder to release the exact same thing. The coding between the two versions is entirely different therefore modders couldn't be sued for stealing. Besides, right now 4J is stuck using default textures at 16 and 32 bit while many PC modders often create their own textures, which generally range from 64 bit to high definition. Different code + different look = no copyright infringment. This logic works in reverse, too. 4J Studios can add whatever they want, whether it's inspired directly from a PC mod or merely from the idea of one. The grey area legally would be if a PC modder or 4J were to take code from one and directly port to the other. I've been told that process is such a headache, working from scratch would be easiest. However, 4J or a modder writing it for themselves from scratch means it wasn't stolen. From anyone. Don't believe me? Do some research. (I'll even loan you my business law books, if you would like to travel because they weigh a ton and travelling would come much cheaper than shipping. Haha.)
[/end of business ethics lesson (rant)]
From my point of view, i hope i get to see some of these "new" things in Minecraft 360 before 4J Studios has to focus only on the One version. Of course, i'm an oddity. We have all three versions of Minecraft - PC, PE, and 360. Yea, i'm addicted to Minecraft. Haha.
Before ranting, try reading... The limits of what may or may not be legitimately copied under the various legislations worldwide varies quite a bit and my post did not go into that since the parties involved would have to decide what might represent a successful lawsuit or not or what sort of settlement they might reach, etc. It's a individual case by case sort of thing. The reality is that most copyright infringements are never pursued by the copyright holders through the courts.
Business ethics, however, involves adhering to a moral code of behavior and the cavalier attitudes of some modders expressed that they can just essentially copy anything that 4J might create with the implication, therefore, that 4J just shouldn't bother creating it IS what I was objecting to. No one in business should just expect that they can freely copy someone else's work and then use that as a "threat" to intimidate and limit the creativity of those other businesses. If all the good ideas are indeed already used up as you seemed to be professing... I guess we should just collapse all the suggestion threads and just stick with what we already have forever. Using your reverse logic, why do modders even bother to enter into a modding agreement (i.e. Terms of Use that also includes Brand Use Guidelines - https://minecraft.net/terms) with Mojang... they can just do whatever they want anyway, right?
Also, a game is more than it's computer language... it consists of artwork and other creatively expressed elements that would also fall under copyright protection in some jurisdictions regardless of what computer language they are written in.
ETA: No need to travel to borrow your business texts, there are several websites that have the appropropriate legislation available. E.G. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/
In the US and in many other jurisdictions, copyrights automatically come into existence the moment a physical expression of the creation is made. Ideas in and of themselves do not have copyrights associated with them. It is the physical expressions of those ideas that are associated with copyrights. The act of registering an official copyright does not have to exist for the copyrights to be enforcible. The copyright holder, however, does have to initiate action against infringements... that is, it is not like other forms of theft where law enforcement and the Crown can initiate charges against the accused.
The agreement is to keep modders from using anything created by Mojang and to prevent redistribution of those things. That's it. Mojang gets us to agree to it, too, to protect themselves, since there are no official international copyright laws.
I also never said to close a forum or that 4J shouldn't try to come up with something new. I pointed out my opinion that i don't believe there is anything completely new to do when it comes to modding Minecraft. I also even pointed out it all should be legal even if there is a PC mod which is similiar or even the same.
4J Studios is not based here in the US and i would be willing to bet many of the modders are from here. There are no international copyright laws. Right now in the US, most computer-based copyright determinations centeralize on intellectual property and fair use. Unless by some far-fetched chance someone actually patented a mod idea along with ALL of it's possible variations, there couldn't even be a grounds for suit for all of the reasons i outlined before.
Which i acknowledged in what i wrote. You should read that. I rarely write so well so late at night.
Different countries, different laws, but i focus on the laws here in the US since, should my rights/ownships/etc ever be violated, i would file suit here. You're right, my books wouldn't be so up-to-date, so thanks for the link, but you may find these more useful, informative, and inclusive:
Try here: http://www.copyright.../fls/fl100.html
Then try these: http://www.copyright.gov/ ; http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ ; http://www.copyright.../fls/fl102.html ; http://www.whitehous...lectualproperty
Oh, and don't forget these: http://www.legislati...988/48/contents and http://www.copyright...k_copyright_law
The agreement is there to inform modders of what rights Mojang is granting them free use of and what rights they are retaining for themselves. If Mojang has a right to grant permission for use of their work, it's stands to reason that 4J has a right to opt to either grant permission for others to use their work or not and modders have a right to grant permission for their work to be copied or not. My point was that if copyright was such a free for all as you suggested by saying that 4J (and anyone else) can do whatever they want, Mojang would not have had to take to the step to tell people such things that they allow them to post videos using Minecraft footage but not for alluding to mods in such a way as they appear to be official. By inserting those statements into their Terms of Service, they are making it clear to modders that they are, in effect, waiving some, but not all of the copyrights they already have implied by the laws of whatever jurisdictions they feel they fall under and it clearly states that they retain the right to determine for themselves what is a plugin, etc. and what is not... and using the game is what, in effect, represents the signing of the agreement by the game players and modders.
You admit that there are no international copyright laws; but you should also perhaps consider that many of them are enforced through international treaties. My point was that to say that this and that is or isn't copyright infringment without the specifics of the case involved is not appropriate. Each case would be an individual thing. No one can accurately make blanket claims that modders could just copy any of 4Js unique developments to the game since it would depend on what, how much and exactly how the work was copied and, in the US at least, whether or not 4J opted to press the issue.
I know you never said to close the forum and it was the poster I was originally responding to with my post who implied that 4J shouldn't bother creating exclusive content because modders could just copy it. Again, when it comes to copyrights - what should be legal and what is legal can only be discussed intelligently when very specific case elements are known. You slammed me as if I had no knowledge of the laws... when what I did was only comment on the morality and fairness of expecting to adhere to and respect copyrights as opposed to expecting to be able to intimidate creativity by the threat of not respecting copyrights and the creative efforts of others.
I am not giving any government credit for anything since there was no indication what happens in the courts other than stating the fact that most copyright cases never get taken through the courts (in the previous post). We could discuss why this is the case for volumes, but it's not necessary. I was merely correcting the impression ubergine was giving that copyright had to be applied for (the acting of copyrighting something) when in many jurisdictions, including but not limited to the US, it takes effect the moment the idea is expressed in a concrete physical form.
You're overthinking it, but you're not wrong either. Neither am i. I'm merely being more simple about it. You and i are too smart for our own good and likely should get out of the proverbial sandbox before we start bashing each other with our pails. The other kids might get scared. Haha. It was fun talking to you though. Good on you! Later!!