Well, it doesn't address the complaints of the original terrain haters (which carried over to 1.7 since 1.7 didn't fix them) and it doesn't address the complaints of the 1.7 terrain haters (the whole biome grouping mess). It's not that I am displeased, it's just that this doesn't fix anything and there's therefore no reason for the terrain haters to go away (unless a particular one is easily pleased).
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Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
Problem being: this doesn't exactly seem like it would implement much variety. The main thing the terrain haters were/are complaining about is that the lack of variety makes exploring boring since you'll almost never see anything new and interesting in the game and you'll frequently be able to predict what you will be able to see next. With this, not only will there be little variety, but you'll know for certain what the world will be like since you selected what it would be like in the very beginning.
Doesn't implement much variety? If I'm not mistaken, Noise is something that determines pretty much everything about the terrain generation and it's the reason why some hills are taller, or have larger overhangs. As someone who loved the variation of Beta terrain, I'm really excited to see this customization's possibility.
Doesn't implement much variety? If I'm not mistaken, Noise is something that determines pretty much everything about the terrain generation and it's the reason why some hills are taller, or have larger overhangs. As someone who loved the variation of Beta terrain, I'm really excited to see this customization's possibility.
When you are modifying the generator yourself, you know exactly what the world is going to look like. That's not much variation.
I don't usually say stuff about terrain customisation, but when it's for stuff like this, I go "NETHER. YES.".
I hope it allows to get rid of the biome ordering stuff though. I'm not sure of the code required, but I would love it if the poorly done, over excessive code terrain gen failure that more or less kills any of the variation we had in 1.6 could be removed. Or at least tweak it to be better.
It is actually very easy to remove the temperature clustering of biomes; all they actually did was split the list of biomes into four groups (cold, medium, warm, hot) and used a large-scale noise field to select one of each group, with biomes randomly chosen within each one (a few biomes, like plains, occur in multiple groups); I'm one of those people who thinks that it is better when you can go from a snow biome to jungle/desert with nothing in between; more variety.
(this link is also a good example of why cave generation needs more than just a simple on/off option; I made it so that you have huge cave systems, similar to those before 1.7, but they aren't all connected together in an endless cave network, plus abandoned mineshafts generate with a minimum spacing and not on top of cave systems)
I would imagine the current climate group sizes were picked because smaller ones probably still resulted in quite a lot of hot/cold biome clashes. Though a custom generator should definitely give us the option to change it, and hopefully the option to change the ocean size / generation too.
No, you could cut down on the sizes without any problems. The basic scheme for the biome arrangements is a fractal one: put some noise on a map, stretch the map to double its size, put some more noise on, stretch some more, on and on for many rounds. You could reduce the linear size of all the climate zones without meaningfully changing their shape and orientation just by moving some of the stretch rounds from after when they layer on the climate zones to before. Looking at the code, there's two stretch rounds after the climate zones are put on but before the next noise addition (which puts in mushroom islands, I think), so you could half or quarter the size of the climate zones without meaningfully changing anything else in the terrain, including the frequency of hot/snowy junctions.
The code for this is unhelpfully in a static function, so it's hard to replace using "proper" Java programming methods like inheritance or delegation, but you *can* hack it with reflection.
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Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
The code for this is unhelpfully in a static function, so it's hard to replace using "proper" Java programming methods like inheritance or delegation, but you *can* hack it with reflection.
Or just by editing the base class and placing it in the jar (don't know why so many people think that you can only use Forge to make mods, and sure, Forge complains if you modify a base class but I've done this - with a couple dozen classes changed - with no problems, despite a bunch of warnings that "things are going to go wrong" in the log, albeit you can only use one such mod at a time).
I think I was thinking more about the frequency of clashes over a set area as opposed to clashes per climate group, I might still be wrong? I don't know. I'd be happy to see some reduction in their size regardless anyway, and if it can be done without creating any problems then that is good.
You're actually right about the frequency per area going up. I was thinking about the total area with clashes, which should stay the same. But still, as you can recall from all the maps we looked at in the ocean size discussion threads, it's a pretty rare problem. The large search distances in the existing setup do seem to bother more people than even the near-total biome jumble pre-1.7 and certainly more than a rarish weird junction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Yeah, they seem to have gone a bit too far when attempting to fix some of the poorer features of the 1.6 map and just ended up replacing the old problems with new ones. Both generators have their good features, though they may need some small tweaks, which I would love to see mixed in to one generator.
Well, I got a climate zone size mod mostly working and it does have a nice feel if you want to see things without a lot of exploring. In 2 worlds with quarter-sized climate zones, I've gotten all the climate zones, plus both jungle and megataiga on the 2Kx2K spawn map both times. But, the zone sorting is still on, so there's no goofy junctions except jungle-desert, which the climate system didn't suppress anyway. I'm less confident that there aren't side-effects, because there seems to be a lot of water for 1.7, and a lot of jungle and megataiga as well.
Oh, this looks great! Finally responding to the fact that many people want to customize terrain, though still missing a few critical features such as ocean size / frequency vs. that of land and tweaking or at least disabling the temperature system, to name two that are high on my list. Anyway, this is exciting! I hope it gets developed further and added to the game.
Oh, this looks great! Finally responding to the fact that many people want to customize terrain, though still missing a few critical features such as ocean size / frequency vs. that of land and tweaking or at least disabling the temperature system,
There's a mod for disabling the temperature system. The OP is MasterCaver's base mod, but I posted a Forge version a few posts down, adding config settings for biome frequency.
I should have a mod with settings to cut down the size of the climate zones without completely erasing them in a couple of days. I think I can put back the oceans (as an option) probably with settings to control the land % and maybe even land character. I *think* I figured out how they erased the oceans in 1.7 and - no wonder 1.7 maps are ugly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I've been wanting to adjust the base / sea level for ages now... always thought that 100 would be better than 62. Of course, now the question is:
1) Will it adjust just the sea level, or the base level of all the surrounding land as well (normalization) so that "ground" level terrain generation looks the same?
2) Will it adjust the height in which ores and materials also spawn? (Maybe as a percentage. Example: Sea level raised to 100, a 62% increase, so redstone and diamonds now spawn in the 1-26 range instead of 1-16, also a 62% increase)
I actually wonder if there is a way to toggle the water level; in a way where only the level of water is raised while the rest of the world is left untouched. I'd love submerged montains.
Well, it doesn't address the complaints of the original terrain haters (which carried over to 1.7 since 1.7 didn't fix them) and it doesn't address the complaints of the 1.7 terrain haters (the whole biome grouping mess). It's not that I am displeased, it's just that this doesn't fix anything and there's therefore no reason for the terrain haters to go away (unless a particular one is easily pleased).
When you are modifying the generator yourself, you know exactly what the world is going to look like. That's not much variation.
Time flies, but so does my pig.
It is actually very easy to remove the temperature clustering of biomes; all they actually did was split the list of biomes into four groups (cold, medium, warm, hot) and used a large-scale noise field to select one of each group, with biomes randomly chosen within each one (a few biomes, like plains, occur in multiple groups); I'm one of those people who thinks that it is better when you can go from a snow biome to jungle/desert with nothing in between; more variety.
How easy? Well...
(this link is also a good example of why cave generation needs more than just a simple on/off option; I made it so that you have huge cave systems, similar to those before 1.7, but they aren't all connected together in an endless cave network, plus abandoned mineshafts generate with a minimum spacing and not on top of cave systems)
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
No, you could cut down on the sizes without any problems. The basic scheme for the biome arrangements is a fractal one: put some noise on a map, stretch the map to double its size, put some more noise on, stretch some more, on and on for many rounds. You could reduce the linear size of all the climate zones without meaningfully changing their shape and orientation just by moving some of the stretch rounds from after when they layer on the climate zones to before. Looking at the code, there's two stretch rounds after the climate zones are put on but before the next noise addition (which puts in mushroom islands, I think), so you could half or quarter the size of the climate zones without meaningfully changing anything else in the terrain, including the frequency of hot/snowy junctions.
The code for this is unhelpfully in a static function, so it's hard to replace using "proper" Java programming methods like inheritance or delegation, but you *can* hack it with reflection.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Or just by editing the base class and placing it in the jar (don't know why so many people think that you can only use Forge to make mods, and sure, Forge complains if you modify a base class but I've done this - with a couple dozen classes changed - with no problems, despite a bunch of warnings that "things are going to go wrong" in the log, albeit you can only use one such mod at a time).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
You're actually right about the frequency per area going up. I was thinking about the total area with clashes, which should stay the same. But still, as you can recall from all the maps we looked at in the ocean size discussion threads, it's a pretty rare problem. The large search distances in the existing setup do seem to bother more people than even the near-total biome jumble pre-1.7 and certainly more than a rarish weird junction.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
This would pretty much solve the average needs and will stay clear and easy to use.
Well, I got a climate zone size mod mostly working and it does have a nice feel if you want to see things without a lot of exploring. In 2 worlds with quarter-sized climate zones, I've gotten all the climate zones, plus both jungle and megataiga on the 2Kx2K spawn map both times. But, the zone sorting is still on, so there's no goofy junctions except jungle-desert, which the climate system didn't suppress anyway. I'm less confident that there aren't side-effects, because there seems to be a lot of water for 1.7, and a lot of jungle and megataiga as well.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
There's a mod for disabling the temperature system. The OP is MasterCaver's base mod, but I posted a Forge version a few posts down, adding config settings for biome frequency.
I should have a mod with settings to cut down the size of the climate zones without completely erasing them in a couple of days. I think I can put back the oceans (as an option) probably with settings to control the land % and maybe even land character. I *think* I figured out how they erased the oceans in 1.7 and - no wonder 1.7 maps are ugly.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
1) Will it adjust just the sea level, or the base level of all the surrounding land as well (normalization) so that "ground" level terrain generation looks the same?
2) Will it adjust the height in which ores and materials also spawn? (Maybe as a percentage. Example: Sea level raised to 100, a 62% increase, so redstone and diamonds now spawn in the 1-26 range instead of 1-16, also a 62% increase)
Pretty sure the dev working on this created the wedge mod.