The minecart mechanics were not an attempt at introducing by-design automation or answering a developer need for players to stop exploiting game mechanisms. I can understand where the example comes from, but I think its a weak example.
Minecart boosters were never considered by the developers an exploitation of the game mechanics. Boosters were the players inventive answer to the fact rails were virtually useless. Powered rails exist today as an old player requested feature. Not as a developer attempt at shaping the players' game. And powered rails follow the exact same principles delineated by players a long ago time ago when they discovered boosters.
I'm pretty sure booster rails actually came from this tweet. I'm sure there were some long time suggestions earlier, but that tweet seemed to be the one that was acknowledged enough for Jeb to add it. I believe after that was when Notch finally said he fixed the booster carts. Either way, one would not have happened without the other.
Good find there, oCrapaCreeper. Brings back memories. It was about shortly before this time that I took a long hiatus from he game.
EDIT: Not sure why my post was cut in half... Anyways, that ended up being the chosen method of implementation. What players had been asking since day 1 rails debuted on Minecraft was for a system of self-propulsion for the minecarts. Notch promised he would do it. But many updates passed without an answer to that problem.
lol oops .. sorry gamesindustry.biz ... just forgot the s XD
As for the rest of your post .. it's all non sense.
Just kidding. I actually see some fairly good ideas in there. Though I guess I should have been a tad bit more specific, I meant balance when it comes to farms and automation ... not the entire game. xD
I know I didn't say it like that, and simply said minecraft in general .. that was my fault.
- enchantments should have no random elements, and the enchantments themselves should be a lot weaker, and with all enchantments being restricted to level 3, the new system with lapiz and the level 1 2 and 3 enchantments would suit this nicely, and the GUI is the perfect shape for it.
Oh no. Don't agree with that. I *love* the random aspect of enchantments and I wished it was back to fully random like it was before. It is like opening a present and being excited about what might come.
- iron and gold farms, enderman farms and XP grinders should be nerfed to being unusable or at least be only slightly more efficient then doing normal stuff.
I think the advantage of such farms should be roughly equivalent to the effort it cost to make them. If you have done a lot of work on something then you should get a roughly equivalent reward for that.
There is a real reason now: getting enderpearls (with or without farm).
- emeralds should appear in all biomes.
- silverfish blocks should appear in all biomes, and silverfish should rarely spawn in small groups deep underground.
Why? I like more variety in biomes and I think it would be good if there would be many more biome specific items, ores and mobs. Silverfish being only in extreme hills makes some from variety.
- villagers and villages should be more advanced and capable of survival without players.
Well they should be somewhat stronger and intelligent perhaps but I don't think they should be capable of survival without players intervention. I actually consider it a fun challenge to secure a village and make sure every villager is safe.
Greetings,
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I hate how the community whining about a nerf to iron farms. It was too overpowered to begin with. Things in this game don't get much nerfs and when we suddenly get one, it's greeted with whiny players that want everything to be easier.
the old system was awful, it forced players pretty much to use farms and was very grindy, and as well as that, it just made players lazy and just sit at their farms, now they must go mining for lapiz.
Well, I don't idle at my farms. I make sure I can do something else why my farm is collecting stuff. It requires good planning but that's also part of the fun.
yes, but sadly, infinite iron and/or gold is NOT roughly equivalent to the effort it cost to make, and also, shows why more effort should not mean equal reward.
Well when I come in a certain stage of the game I no longer want to bother myself with mining stuff. The game should evolve over time. In the beginning you mine a lot to gather materials. You build a shelter. You make sure you have enough food. As the game progresses I don't want to keep doing these things over and over again. I want things to evolve so I build automated systems to do the things for me that I used to have to do manually. And then I can move over to bigger projects and stuff. Like buliding large minecart tracks, beacons and so on. If after a certain time I *still* have to go out to mine for iron then the game looses it's appeal to me. But I understand that eveyone wants to play differently. But this is the way that I (and I guess my other players too) like to play.
that isn't a real reason.
It is to me. I use enderpearls a lot. It is my main way to move around so I need lots of them.
because mojang are not going to add enough stuff for each biome to have, it isn't variety if there is one ore found in a single biome, and a mob restricted to there as well, that isn't variety.
Yes, but instead of removing the little variety there is I would rather that Mojang adds more variety similar to this in future versions of Minecraft. I would love to see more ores and mobs that only exist in certain biomes.
absurd, minecraft as a whole has a certain thing about it, as long as the player doesn't do anything, nothing will happen, other than the occasional forest fire, not all players like that as a challenge, when making a game, if you have to choose between too hard for some and too easy for others, you must ALWAYS pick too easy or you suck at game design, especially in a sandbox game.
Well I don't agree with that at all but I suppose everyone likes to play differently. Note that I do agree that villagers should be a bit smarter (i.e. don't stupidly run into zombies and actually try to stay inside at night for example) but I do want there to be at least a little challenge in securing the village left. Perhaps this can also be tied to difficulty level. i.e. in easy the village can stay alive on its own but in normal and hard the player has to help a little.
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The real issue with why farms are overpowered is because redstone has an infinite source of power. So it never costs you anything to constantly run these contraption while in real life it costs money and resources to run these factories.
So wouldn't an easy solution be to change red stone into a non infinite source of power? Introduce a new redstone device to charge up the redstone. You would need at least 1 per contraption to run the contraption constantly. You load this new device with coal. Have it set to eat maybe 10 coals per in game day.
Edit: better yet, have every redstone device have a cost. A repeater costs 0.2 coal. Each redstone dust cost 0.01 coal. A comparator costs 0.3 coal. per day. Bigger the contraption the more it costs to run.
Since you can't set up a farm to produce coal at a constant rate, you would reintroduce the need to have to mine at least from time to time in order to run these contraptions.
I think it makes sense, and would fix every single farm is a single swoop.
I personally wouldn't mind that at all, and I always thought it was fairly odd how red stone gets a constant source of energy apparently from no where.
I know this would require a major rewrite of the redstone code ... but I think it would work pretty well.
Edit: better yet, have every redstone device have a cost. A repeater costs 0.2 coal. Each redstone dust cost 0.01 coal. A comparator costs 0.3 coal. per day. Bigger the contraption the more it costs to run.
What would you do with power sources like levers and buttons? If a lever is in it's on-state it constantly gives power too. That's how you actually power up the device connected to the lever.
I don't think this can work without a total different power/redstone system which would basically break every redstone device in existance right now.
Greetings,
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What would you do with power sources like levers and buttons? If a lever is in it's on-state it constantly gives power too. That's how you actually power up the device connected to the lever.
I don't think this can work without a total different power/redstone system which would basically break every redstone device in existance right now.
Greetings,
lol ya . .that is what I meant when I said "I know this would require a major rewrite of the redstone code ... but I think it would work pretty well. "
Major changes would have to be made of course, but it would fix pretty much solve all issues with any farm possibly being over powered.
I feel this change would be to much though, but I do think it would be the best bet cause it's future proof.
I think repealing this is bad. The new mechanics are much better because I don't feel like abusing game mechanics in a way that was unintended falls under "creative gameplay" and should be rewarded.
Yes, you don't feel like abusing those game mechanics. Not everybody feels the same. I don't mind that much if it is nerfed or not but I did have a lot of fun building the automated iron golem farm. And isn't this what a game is all about? (having fun)
Greetings,
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I think repealing this is bad. The new mechanics are much better because I don't feel like abusing game mechanics in a way that was unintended falls under "creative gameplay" and should be rewarded.
YOU feel like it's not the right way to play. Therefore, you shouldn't do it. But who are you to dictate how someone else plays? They're not in your world. They're not anyone you know. If they didn't even exist, you would never know it.
Minecraft isn't a game (despite what it says on the box). Minecraft is a toy. Minecraft is like a box of Legos. If I want to build a rocketship out of my Legos, that doesn't affect you wanting to build a skyscraper out of yours, and some other guy neither one of us knows building a giant robot from his.
Taking options away from people you don't even interact with because they don't play with their toys the same way you play with yours, and you want to force them to do that, is not a good thing.
Being able to make iron/gold farm is fair. Obtaining reward out of it is fine as well. Question arises when it comes to the fact that iron golem and zombie pig man spawns infinitely from area/portal.
Being able to obtain iron and gold infinitely without maintenance is clearly over powered.
but that would pretty much disable using things that ought to be automatic, like piston doors, or Ethos Wilson project, or a rail cart road.
Not necessarily. If you are reworking the red stone mechanics I am sure you could make a work around for that. Maybe redstone contraption are free up until a certain size as an example.
Ethos project sadly would most likely be effected.
I do have to point out though, that no matter what mojang chooses to do, they are going to anger some people no matter what. Honesty, they shouldn't ever have brought it up and made these changes at all. Would have avoided all this term-oil.
I think if you want to put hours and hours forth to make an iron farm instead of use that time mining it, you should be able to do it. Think it's an abuse of game mechanics and it feels like cheating? Don't waste hours making one, the only thing you have to worry about at that point is others getting an advantage on servers. Even then, the only thing changed was the automated part, so it isn't even any different.
I wouldn't make a mob farm, that's my choice. Another player wants to make one, that's their choice. It's a sandbox game, it isn't our job to tell people how they can play the game. Grinding is not fun, large amounts of resource grinding isn't fun for everyone.
What's wrong with letting everyone play how they want to play? Minecraft is a open world sandbox game with infinite possibilities, it isn't "meant to be played in a certain way." You mined all you iron, another person went a different route and made a grinder. They still worked hard for it. Ever tried making iron farm? Not the simplest project... I didn't know Minecraft was a mining game, what about all of all of it's other features? Not everyone wants to mine 1000 blocks of iron to work on their latest building and redstone projects.
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Why not just have a gamerule that handles how mob drops work?
Something like, "DoPlayerMobDrops". Setting it to true would change it so that iron, gold nuggets, and so on will only drop if the mob is killed by the player, and false would just leave the mechanics as they are currently.
Enderdragon Roar in the Overworld
Rollercoaster
I'm pretty sure booster rails actually came from this tweet. I'm sure there were some long time suggestions earlier, but that tweet seemed to be the one that was acknowledged enough for Jeb to add it. I believe after that was when Notch finally said he fixed the booster carts. Either way, one would not have happened without the other.
EDIT: Not sure why my post was cut in half... Anyways, that ended up being the chosen method of implementation. What players had been asking since day 1 rails debuted on Minecraft was for a system of self-propulsion for the minecarts. Notch promised he would do it. But many updates passed without an answer to that problem.
lol oops .. sorry gamesindustry.biz ... just forgot the s XD
As for the rest of your post .. it's all non sense.
Just kidding. I actually see some fairly good ideas in there. Though I guess I should have been a tad bit more specific, I meant balance when it comes to farms and automation ... not the entire game. xD
I know I didn't say it like that, and simply said minecraft in general .. that was my fault.
Oh no. Don't agree with that. I *love* the random aspect of enchantments and I wished it was back to fully random like it was before. It is like opening a present and being excited about what might come.
I think the advantage of such farms should be roughly equivalent to the effort it cost to make them. If you have done a lot of work on something then you should get a roughly equivalent reward for that.
There is a real reason now: getting enderpearls (with or without farm).
Why? I like more variety in biomes and I think it would be good if there would be many more biome specific items, ores and mobs. Silverfish being only in extreme hills makes some from variety.
Well they should be somewhat stronger and intelligent perhaps but I don't think they should be capable of survival without players intervention. I actually consider it a fun challenge to secure a village and make sure every villager is safe.
Greetings,
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
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I… I… Hmm… Wish… To… Idolize you…
Well, I don't idle at my farms. I make sure I can do something else why my farm is collecting stuff. It requires good planning but that's also part of the fun.
Well when I come in a certain stage of the game I no longer want to bother myself with mining stuff. The game should evolve over time. In the beginning you mine a lot to gather materials. You build a shelter. You make sure you have enough food. As the game progresses I don't want to keep doing these things over and over again. I want things to evolve so I build automated systems to do the things for me that I used to have to do manually. And then I can move over to bigger projects and stuff. Like buliding large minecart tracks, beacons and so on. If after a certain time I *still* have to go out to mine for iron then the game looses it's appeal to me. But I understand that eveyone wants to play differently. But this is the way that I (and I guess my other players too) like to play.
It is to me. I use enderpearls a lot. It is my main way to move around so I need lots of them.
Yes, but instead of removing the little variety there is I would rather that Mojang adds more variety similar to this in future versions of Minecraft. I would love to see more ores and mobs that only exist in certain biomes.
Well I don't agree with that at all but I suppose everyone likes to play differently. Note that I do agree that villagers should be a bit smarter (i.e. don't stupidly run into zombies and actually try to stay inside at night for example) but I do want there to be at least a little challenge in securing the village left. Perhaps this can also be tied to difficulty level. i.e. in easy the village can stay alive on its own but in normal and hard the player has to help a little.
Greetings,
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMg1JQw3syJBgPeW6m68lA?view_as=subscriber
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Not quite sure what Dinnerbone is getting at here, as it costs iron to spawn them to begin with.
So wouldn't an easy solution be to change red stone into a non infinite source of power? Introduce a new redstone device to charge up the redstone. You would need at least 1 per contraption to run the contraption constantly. You load this new device with coal. Have it set to eat maybe 10 coals per in game day.
Edit: better yet, have every redstone device have a cost. A repeater costs 0.2 coal. Each redstone dust cost 0.01 coal. A comparator costs 0.3 coal. per day. Bigger the contraption the more it costs to run.
Since you can't set up a farm to produce coal at a constant rate, you would reintroduce the need to have to mine at least from time to time in order to run these contraptions.
I think it makes sense, and would fix every single farm is a single swoop.
I personally wouldn't mind that at all, and I always thought it was fairly odd how red stone gets a constant source of energy apparently from no where.
I know this would require a major rewrite of the redstone code ... but I think it would work pretty well.
What would you do with power sources like levers and buttons? If a lever is in it's on-state it constantly gives power too. That's how you actually power up the device connected to the lever.
I don't think this can work without a total different power/redstone system which would basically break every redstone device in existance right now.
Greetings,
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMg1JQw3syJBgPeW6m68lA?view_as=subscriber
Support me at my Patreon page (http://www.patreon.com/McJty) or directly on my Paypal account ([email protected]). Thanks
lol ya . .that is what I meant when I said "I know this would require a major rewrite of the redstone code ... but I think it would work pretty well. "
Major changes would have to be made of course, but it would fix pretty much solve all issues with any farm possibly being over powered.
I feel this change would be to much though, but I do think it would be the best bet cause it's future proof.
Didn't repealing the nerf stop increased lag levels? Unless you were talking about iron farms in general before the nerf ever existed.
Yes, you don't feel like abusing those game mechanics. Not everybody feels the same. I don't mind that much if it is nerfed or not but I did have a lot of fun building the automated iron golem farm. And isn't this what a game is all about? (having fun)
Greetings,
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMg1JQw3syJBgPeW6m68lA?view_as=subscriber
Support me at my Patreon page (http://www.patreon.com/McJty) or directly on my Paypal account ([email protected]). Thanks
YOU feel like it's not the right way to play. Therefore, you shouldn't do it. But who are you to dictate how someone else plays? They're not in your world. They're not anyone you know. If they didn't even exist, you would never know it.
Minecraft isn't a game (despite what it says on the box). Minecraft is a toy. Minecraft is like a box of Legos. If I want to build a rocketship out of my Legos, that doesn't affect you wanting to build a skyscraper out of yours, and some other guy neither one of us knows building a giant robot from his.
Taking options away from people you don't even interact with because they don't play with their toys the same way you play with yours, and you want to force them to do that, is not a good thing.
The golden age: it's not the game, it's you ⋆ Why Minecraft should not be harder ⋆ Spelling hints
Ummm... I may have been on the wrong topic posting that... It was supposed to be about when the nerf was still in effect. Sorry for the confusion.
Being able to obtain iron and gold infinitely without maintenance is clearly over powered.
Not necessarily. If you are reworking the red stone mechanics I am sure you could make a work around for that. Maybe redstone contraption are free up until a certain size as an example.
Ethos project sadly would most likely be effected.
I do have to point out though, that no matter what mojang chooses to do, they are going to anger some people no matter what. Honesty, they shouldn't ever have brought it up and made these changes at all. Would have avoided all this term-oil.
I wouldn't make a mob farm, that's my choice. Another player wants to make one, that's their choice. It's a sandbox game, it isn't our job to tell people how they can play the game. Grinding is not fun, large amounts of resource grinding isn't fun for everyone.
What's wrong with letting everyone play how they want to play? Minecraft is a open world sandbox game with infinite possibilities, it isn't "meant to be played in a certain way." You mined all you iron, another person went a different route and made a grinder. They still worked hard for it. Ever tried making iron farm? Not the simplest project... I didn't know Minecraft was a mining game, what about all of all of it's other features? Not everyone wants to mine 1000 blocks of iron to work on their latest building and redstone projects.
Something like, "DoPlayerMobDrops". Setting it to true would change it so that iron, gold nuggets, and so on will only drop if the mob is killed by the player, and false would just leave the mechanics as they are currently.