Yeah I meant building new ones doesn't work. I am aware, and even mentioned earlier in this thread, that one built before the change would still work after (depending on what else they change in the meantime, though.) It's just the village-chaining process that's been broken. So technically, you could say the Trench is even more broken than the Foundry, since existing Foundries will still work, but existing Trenches won't (since the whole idea behind the trench is go ahead and let the villages merge, it'll just "repair" itself afterwards by chaining them together again automatically. But, since the chaining doesn't work anymore, it's unable to repair itself once it does inevitably merge. The Foundry gets around this by not letting itself become merged in the first place.)
10-4 I get what you are saying and make sense to Me now
I think that fixing the super efficient iron farms without breaking the basic farms is a good thing, and I hope that they do something to the gold farms on the top of the nether too (Without breaking overworld gold farms or gold farms in the nether.) If you build something that is clearly based on unintended bug (Like sand generators or the gold farms on the nether or the super iron farms) you should expect that mojang will fix them.
I agree but don't care if it is fixed or not cause any feature that is not like by someone can be overcome by playing the version that suits them.
Good point, one I've never considered before. I'm probably showing my age when I say I've never understood the popularity of modding myself. It seems too much like cheating, IMO, in more ways in one.
Probably why I soured on fanfiction as well.
Well I am almost 27, I consider myself pretty old when it comes to gaming. However, I am also a game developer. To me modding in general isn't cheating, though it can be used to cheat very easily. You just have to judge each individual mod yourself and match it up to what you consider cheating.
Personally I use 100s of mods for Skyrim, but I don't consider it cheating cause the mods make the game much harder, not easier. Adds a lot more roleplay like features too and better graphics.
Stealing from villagers is not an exploit, it's just being an opportunist and nothing more.
An exploit would be using a bug, thus not intended game mechanics, to your advantage.
Actually an exploit is taking advantage or abuse of ANY game mechanic. Bunny hopping in video games started off and was technically an exploit. I remember back in the days when some first person shooter servers would ban you for doing it. Was a trick to make you go faster. It's pretty common now these days and is no longer seen as an exploit as far as I am aware.
Heck, just look up the word exploit and you will see it really has nothing to do with bugs.
Just one more reason why I'm glad I play survival Minecraft as intended, and avoid using obvious exploits. When they finally fix the broken game logic that permits them, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
Why? Does bringing loaded dice or marked cards make parties more fun?
Does rules lawyering and min-maxing make people popular in RPG groups?
Do you really have to cheat to have fun?
Please explain this to me.
Your mistake is calling people cheaters. The usual escape route of anyone who can't understand the phenomena but must still have to have a word for people who play on the limit of Minecraft rules. In your high pedestal of morality you just don't realize that in the end you are just another representative of human weakness. Another one who dislikes those they cannot understand. We probably eat your babies too.
I'd probably want to know why you call these people cheaters. Why do you feel the need to give them such a vile status without even trying to understand the motivations in building/engineering/architectural game such as Minecraft. But I'm afraid I'll become nauseated by your high authoritarian morals and absolutists view of how Minecraft should be played.
It is you who has to explain, not anyone else. You are the one qualifying a very large number of Minecraft as cheaters. You are the one that needs to do the explaining.
Why? Does bringing loaded dice or marked cards make parties more fun?
Does rules lawyering and min-maxing make people popular in RPG groups?
Do you really have to cheat to have fun?
Please explain this to me.
Of course building a farm isn't cheating, and of course you know that. But that's not the point. You're the kid at the party who complains when someone brings the wrong flavor of chips. You want a party where everyone looks like you, tells the same jokes, eats exactly the same food, and enjoys exactly the same refreshing non-alcoholic beverage.
And I'm saying, I don't go to those kinds of parties.
Your mistake is calling people cheaters. The usual escape route of anyone who can't understand the phenomena but must still have to have a word for people who play on the limit of Minecraft rules. In your high pedestal of morality you just don't realize that in the end you are just another representative of human weakness. Another one who dislikes those they cannot understand. We probably eat your babies too.
I'd probably want to know why you call these people cheaters. Why do you feel the need to give them such a vile status without even trying to understand the motivations in building/engineering/architectural game such as Minecraft. But I'm afraid I'll become nauseated by your high authoritarian morals and absolutists view of how Minecraft should be played.
It is you who has to explain, not anyone else. You are the one qualifying a very large number of Minecraft as cheaters. You are the one that needs to do the explaining.
What people do in their single player games is their own business. Use exploits, use the /give command, switch to creative for all I care. Your single player game doesn't affect me in the slightest.
But once you start playing with other people, then it stops being your game. And what you do, directly or indirectly, affects other people. When a small group of players starts using exploits to get ahead, it tends to ruins the fun for everyone else... namely the majority who are playing by the rules of the game. They find themselves unable to compete in PvP, unable to compete economically, and sometimes unable to play at all, because they even get dominated in PvE.
Which is why game developers are constantly fixing exploits and tweaking game balance.
Of course building a farm isn't cheating, and of course you know that. But that's not the point. You're the kid at the party who complains when someone brings the wrong flavor of chips. You want a party where everyone looks like you, tells the same jokes, eats exactly the same food, and enjoys exactly the same refreshing non-alcoholic beverage.
And I'm saying, I don't go to those kinds of parties.
And I don't go to those kind of parties, either.
I also don't go to parties where everyone is so competitive that they bring loaded dice and marked cards so they can "win." Because what makes games fun is not the winning, but the spirit of competition between players. When one player decides to win at all costs, it comes at the cost of everyone else in the game.
It is not unreasonable to join a golf league, and expect those playing it not to kick the golf ball from under a tree so they don't have to take a penalty stroke. It is not being unreasonable to participate in a marathon, and expect those running not to inject themselves with their own red blood cells to boost their endurance. And it is not being unreasonable to expect players in an online game not to take advantage of exploits to get ahead of everyone else, nor is it being unreasonable to expect game developers to fix those exploits when they come to their attention.
I know you feel otherwise, but.if there's a rule that says, "You're not allowed to trip the runner ahead of you," then it exists because someone actually did that, and then piously claimed, "But it's not against the rules. Stop ruining my fun!"
What people do in their single player games is their own business. Use exploits, use the /give command, switch to creative for all I care. Your single player game doesn't affect me in the slightest.
But once you start playing with other people, then it stops being your game. And what you do, directly or indirectly, affects other people. When a small group of players starts using exploits to get ahead, it tends to ruins the fun for everyone else... namely the majority who are playing by the rules of the game. They find themselves unable to compete in PvP, unable to compete economically, and sometimes unable to play at all, because they even get dominated in PvE.
Which is why game developers are constantly fixing exploits and tweaking game balance.
And I don't go to those kind of parties, either.
I also don't go to parties where everyone is so competitive that they bring loaded dice and marked cards so they can "win." Because what makes games fun is not the winning, but the spirit of competition between players. When one player decides to win at all costs, it comes at the cost of everyone else in the game.
It is not unreasonable to join a golf league, and expect those playing it not to kick the golf ball from under a tree so they don't have to take a penalty stroke. It is not being unreasonable to participate in a marathon, and expect those running not to inject themselves with their own red blood cells to boost their endurance. And it is not being unreasonable to expect players in an online game not to take advantage of exploits to get ahead of everyone else, nor is it being unreasonable to expect game developers to fix those exploits when they come to their attention.
I know you feel otherwise, but.if there's a rule that says, "You're not allowed to trip the runner ahead of you," then it exists because someone actually did that, and then piously claimed, "But it's not against the rules. Stop ruining my fun!"
Your analogies don't make any sense. Kicking the ball is cheating. Making a farm isn't cheating. By what definition under the spaghetti monster in the sky is making a farm cheating? Farming has always been encouraged in Minecraft. Cultivating the land and its resources has been available since dirt could be tilled and animals could be bred. Your "cheating" argument from the very beginning of this thread has been nothing but "no farms are morally superior to poor farms, and poor farms are morally superior to good farms." Cheating is hacking in content that does not exist, and even then it isn't cheating unless it impinges on someone else's game. Neither of these conditions is the case with farming. Farming is normal content, and it is available to everyone, and it doesn't compromise anyone else's enjoyment of the game, which, if you recall, is a sandbox game anyway.
So your service to this thread has been nothing but to mislabel normal Minecrafters as cheaters with erroneous logic and a superior attitude. You should apologize. But in place of that silly expectation, we might accept your willingness to open your mind to rational discussion.
But once you start playing with other people, then it stops being your game. And what you do, directly or indirectly, affects other people. When a small group of players starts using exploits to get ahead, it tends to ruins the fun for everyone else... namely the majority who are playing by the rules of the game. They find themselves unable to compete in PvP, unable to compete economically, and sometimes unable to play at all, because they even get dominated in PvE.
This is a false argument. I wished you were at least intellectually honest when trying to argue.
Multiplayer games play by the server rules, not Minecraft rules. Server games can be heavily modded and they all have specific rules that all players must adhere to. Minecraft rules don't apply to a multiplayer game beyond those which the server admin(s) want to keep.
If you play competitively in a server and someone is using farms to get ahead of you, then it is because the server allows for the creation of farms, and it is you who aren't taking advantage of the game rules in your server. If your server doesn't allow farms, then that player is playing against the rules and you or anyone else can tell on him (although it's impossible to hide a farm and I cannot be convinced the admins don't know).
If Mojang tries to do that-
1. It will most likely break three more things along with it OR take away from the experience for all players.
2. People find ways. Unless Iron Golems no longer drop iron, there will be alternate designs and people are bound to find ways around the restrictions.
3. Will get quite a bit of hatred and complaints in return. Mojang didn't even remove iron farms, just nerfed them. They reverted back the changes just because of just of a few complaints that went flying on Reddit. Now imagine how much they will get if they outright make them impossible. It's unlikely they would make that risk, a lot of player spent a lot of time with farms. I'm not saying they won't, I'm just saying it's unlikely.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Let me know if my posts are helpful or if you like them. That's what I'm here for.
I am currently lurking more than I am posting. I haven't gone anywhere.
The problem with our community is we lack the ability to identify, and since this is a sandbox game, YOU draw the lines between "Cheating" and "Fair Play"
The thing is, Bugs are features and features are bugs, as far as the community goes. Here's an example:
Village = Intended Feature
BUD = Bug. (I didn't see anyone complaining. It's useful just like villages >.>)
Village Chaining = Bug (But we make WAAAAY too big of a deal about it.)
Iron Farms = Bug/Unintended Feature (It is beneficial. All I can afford is an iron cloud, it's not going to do much without my mining aide. And in the meantime, what am I going to do? Mine, duh. Also, why complain? You can set your own rules.)
See? THAT's the problem. Farming is supported. Let's do it this way: Seeing as it is a "SANDBOX" game, it means if there is a flaw in the system, it is legit until considered otherwise OFFICIALLY by Mojang. This means they only intended to break the OP iron golem farms, but still encourage (Or are clueless about ) mini iron farms.
I'm not even going to read anything in here aside from OP.
They fixed a village bug. Iron farms still work. This case is only for iron trenches / gigantic farms that took advantage of said bug. If you base a machine off of a bug, you shouldn't be surprised when the fixed bug ruins the machine.
And there is no reason to go through 5 pages of pointless ranting.
This happened with the rose, although this has more point to it, it's no different from the rose in the sense that none of the coders really care much about what you have to say at this point.
This happened with the rose, although this has more point to it, it's no different from the rose in the sense that none of the coders really care much about what you have to say at this point.
You take that back, you take that back NOW! Jeb, dinnerbone and the rest of the mojangsters love us, they're... well they're just busy is all!
Seriously though, I think these changes have more to do with wanting to revamp villagers than it does with trying to nerf iron farms. I mean a bar of iron is a mere token to anyone not using a farm, if they wanted to stop iron farms, they would just make it so iron golems don't drop any iron.
But while this is a popular topic, i have to ask, what do you iron farmers do with all your spare iron? I assume you probably get more iron than i do using the traditional mining method (gotta get those diamonds somehow) and I have more than I know what to do with. I have 3 stacks of iron blocks in my enderchest and since i didn't want to fill it all up with iron i just leave the excess at whatever base is nearest to where I mined it.
Are you guys building castles out of iron or something?
Seriously though, I think these changes have more to do with wanting to revamp villagers than it does with trying to nerf iron farms.
They'll give you that poo-eating grin all day long and say "Oh, we've done nothing to iron farms, tra-la-la. We've merely just fixed a village bug, wink wink, nudge nudge, trololololol!" But deep down inside, you and I and they all know, that the only real reason for fixing the "bug" in the first place was specifically to nerf the farms. Now, I'm not particularly upset about this change, because it was technically a bug, after all, and the types of farms that are affected were rather ridiculous. But still, don't let them or anyone else with a poo-eating smile fool you into thinking that that wasn't the whole plan all along...
if they wanted to stop iron farms, they would just make it so iron golems don't drop any iron.
They tried that (kind of), and the people were having none of it. They made it so golems only dropped iron when killed by the player. This of course changed nothing, except that now instead of unobtrusively killing the golems automatically and collecting the loot in hoppers, you now had to keep hundreds upon hundreds of lag-inducing entities hanging out in a holding cell somewhere, until you were ready to come along and do them in yourself. Reddit made such an uproar about it, that it was reversed in the very next snapshot.
But while this is a popular topic, i have to ask, what do you iron farmers do with all your spare iron?
Hoppers. Lots, and lots of hoppers. Plus, the hoarder in me gets to save all of that spiffy, non-renewable iron ore I dig up while caving, instead of melting it down into plain-old, boring, everyday ingots that you can get "just" from killing zombies and golems all day long. But mostly, it's the lots and lots of hoppers. And it's a cheap way to get a fully-powered beacon pyramid.
Of course, I've only ever made the "regular" kind of iron farms, the ones that consist of a single village and produce just a handful of golems per hour. These "chained-village" monstrosities, like the Iron Foundry, I think are made more just for the sake of being able to say you've done it, than for any practical purpose.
10-4 I get what you are saying and make sense to Me now
I agree but don't care if it is fixed or not cause any feature that is not like by someone can be overcome by playing the version that suits them.
I mostly want the gold farms on the nether fixed so that people will come up with better desings for other gold farms.
If you can build very powerfull gold farms by using a glitch no-one will create new desings not based on the glitch.
Well I am almost 27, I consider myself pretty old when it comes to gaming. However, I am also a game developer. To me modding in general isn't cheating, though it can be used to cheat very easily. You just have to judge each individual mod yourself and match it up to what you consider cheating.
Personally I use 100s of mods for Skyrim, but I don't consider it cheating cause the mods make the game much harder, not easier. Adds a lot more roleplay like features too and better graphics.
Actually an exploit is taking advantage or abuse of ANY game mechanic. Bunny hopping in video games started off and was technically an exploit. I remember back in the days when some first person shooter servers would ban you for doing it. Was a trick to make you go faster. It's pretty common now these days and is no longer seen as an exploit as far as I am aware.
Heck, just look up the word exploit and you will see it really has nothing to do with bugs.
You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Why? Does bringing loaded dice or marked cards make parties more fun?
Does rules lawyering and min-maxing make people popular in RPG groups?
Do you really have to cheat to have fun?
Please explain this to me.
Your mistake is calling people cheaters. The usual escape route of anyone who can't understand the phenomena but must still have to have a word for people who play on the limit of Minecraft rules. In your high pedestal of morality you just don't realize that in the end you are just another representative of human weakness. Another one who dislikes those they cannot understand. We probably eat your babies too.
I'd probably want to know why you call these people cheaters. Why do you feel the need to give them such a vile status without even trying to understand the motivations in building/engineering/architectural game such as Minecraft. But I'm afraid I'll become nauseated by your high authoritarian morals and absolutists view of how Minecraft should be played.
It is you who has to explain, not anyone else. You are the one qualifying a very large number of Minecraft as cheaters. You are the one that needs to do the explaining.
Of course building a farm isn't cheating, and of course you know that. But that's not the point. You're the kid at the party who complains when someone brings the wrong flavor of chips. You want a party where everyone looks like you, tells the same jokes, eats exactly the same food, and enjoys exactly the same refreshing non-alcoholic beverage.
And I'm saying, I don't go to those kinds of parties.
What people do in their single player games is their own business. Use exploits, use the /give command, switch to creative for all I care. Your single player game doesn't affect me in the slightest.
But once you start playing with other people, then it stops being your game. And what you do, directly or indirectly, affects other people. When a small group of players starts using exploits to get ahead, it tends to ruins the fun for everyone else... namely the majority who are playing by the rules of the game. They find themselves unable to compete in PvP, unable to compete economically, and sometimes unable to play at all, because they even get dominated in PvE.
Which is why game developers are constantly fixing exploits and tweaking game balance.
And I don't go to those kind of parties, either.
I also don't go to parties where everyone is so competitive that they bring loaded dice and marked cards so they can "win." Because what makes games fun is not the winning, but the spirit of competition between players. When one player decides to win at all costs, it comes at the cost of everyone else in the game.
It is not unreasonable to join a golf league, and expect those playing it not to kick the golf ball from under a tree so they don't have to take a penalty stroke. It is not being unreasonable to participate in a marathon, and expect those running not to inject themselves with their own red blood cells to boost their endurance. And it is not being unreasonable to expect players in an online game not to take advantage of exploits to get ahead of everyone else, nor is it being unreasonable to expect game developers to fix those exploits when they come to their attention.
I know you feel otherwise, but.if there's a rule that says, "You're not allowed to trip the runner ahead of you," then it exists because someone actually did that, and then piously claimed, "But it's not against the rules. Stop ruining my fun!"
Your analogies don't make any sense. Kicking the ball is cheating. Making a farm isn't cheating. By what definition under the spaghetti monster in the sky is making a farm cheating? Farming has always been encouraged in Minecraft. Cultivating the land and its resources has been available since dirt could be tilled and animals could be bred. Your "cheating" argument from the very beginning of this thread has been nothing but "no farms are morally superior to poor farms, and poor farms are morally superior to good farms." Cheating is hacking in content that does not exist, and even then it isn't cheating unless it impinges on someone else's game. Neither of these conditions is the case with farming. Farming is normal content, and it is available to everyone, and it doesn't compromise anyone else's enjoyment of the game, which, if you recall, is a sandbox game anyway.
So your service to this thread has been nothing but to mislabel normal Minecrafters as cheaters with erroneous logic and a superior attitude. You should apologize. But in place of that silly expectation, we might accept your willingness to open your mind to rational discussion.
Much thanks in advance.
This is a false argument. I wished you were at least intellectually honest when trying to argue.
Multiplayer games play by the server rules, not Minecraft rules. Server games can be heavily modded and they all have specific rules that all players must adhere to. Minecraft rules don't apply to a multiplayer game beyond those which the server admin(s) want to keep.
If you play competitively in a server and someone is using farms to get ahead of you, then it is because the server allows for the creation of farms, and it is you who aren't taking advantage of the game rules in your server. If your server doesn't allow farms, then that player is playing against the rules and you or anyone else can tell on him (although it's impossible to hide a farm and I cannot be convinced the admins don't know).
1. It will most likely break three more things along with it OR take away from the experience for all players.
2. People find ways. Unless Iron Golems no longer drop iron, there will be alternate designs and people are bound to find ways around the restrictions.
3. Will get quite a bit of hatred and complaints in return. Mojang didn't even remove iron farms, just nerfed them. They reverted back the changes just because of just of a few complaints that went flying on Reddit. Now imagine how much they will get if they outright make them impossible. It's unlikely they would make that risk, a lot of player spent a lot of time with farms. I'm not saying they won't, I'm just saying it's unlikely.
The thing is, Bugs are features and features are bugs, as far as the community goes. Here's an example:
Village = Intended Feature
BUD = Bug. (I didn't see anyone complaining. It's useful just like villages >.>)
Village Chaining = Bug (But we make WAAAAY too big of a deal about it.)
Iron Farms = Bug/Unintended Feature (It is beneficial. All I can afford is an iron cloud, it's not going to do much without my mining aide. And in the meantime, what am I going to do? Mine, duh. Also, why complain? You can set your own rules.)
See? THAT's the problem. Farming is supported. Let's do it this way: Seeing as it is a "SANDBOX" game, it means if there is a flaw in the system, it is legit until considered otherwise OFFICIALLY by Mojang. This means they only intended to break the OP iron golem farms, but still encourage (Or are clueless about ) mini iron farms.
They fixed a village bug. Iron farms still work. This case is only for iron trenches / gigantic farms that took advantage of said bug. If you base a machine off of a bug, you shouldn't be surprised when the fixed bug ruins the machine.
...but that's just like, my opinion, man.
Good for you. Understanding things is overrated.
And there is no reason to go through 5 pages of pointless ranting.
This happened with the rose, although this has more point to it, it's no different from the rose in the sense that none of the coders really care much about what you have to say at this point.
You take that back, you take that back NOW! Jeb, dinnerbone and the rest of the mojangsters love us, they're... well they're just busy is all!
Seriously though, I think these changes have more to do with wanting to revamp villagers than it does with trying to nerf iron farms. I mean a bar of iron is a mere token to anyone not using a farm, if they wanted to stop iron farms, they would just make it so iron golems don't drop any iron.
But while this is a popular topic, i have to ask, what do you iron farmers do with all your spare iron? I assume you probably get more iron than i do using the traditional mining method (gotta get those diamonds somehow) and I have more than I know what to do with. I have 3 stacks of iron blocks in my enderchest and since i didn't want to fill it all up with iron i just leave the excess at whatever base is nearest to where I mined it.
Are you guys building castles out of iron or something?
They'll give you that poo-eating grin all day long and say "Oh, we've done nothing to iron farms, tra-la-la. We've merely just fixed a village bug, wink wink, nudge nudge, trololololol!" But deep down inside, you and I and they all know, that the only real reason for fixing the "bug" in the first place was specifically to nerf the farms. Now, I'm not particularly upset about this change, because it was technically a bug, after all, and the types of farms that are affected were rather ridiculous. But still, don't let them or anyone else with a poo-eating smile fool you into thinking that that wasn't the whole plan all along...
They tried that (kind of), and the people were having none of it. They made it so golems only dropped iron when killed by the player. This of course changed nothing, except that now instead of unobtrusively killing the golems automatically and collecting the loot in hoppers, you now had to keep hundreds upon hundreds of lag-inducing entities hanging out in a holding cell somewhere, until you were ready to come along and do them in yourself. Reddit made such an uproar about it, that it was reversed in the very next snapshot.
Hoppers. Lots, and lots of hoppers. Plus, the hoarder in me gets to save all of that spiffy, non-renewable iron ore I dig up while caving, instead of melting it down into plain-old, boring, everyday ingots that you can get "just" from killing zombies and golems all day long. But mostly, it's the lots and lots of hoppers. And it's a cheap way to get a fully-powered beacon pyramid.
Of course, I've only ever made the "regular" kind of iron farms, the ones that consist of a single village and produce just a handful of golems per hour. These "chained-village" monstrosities, like the Iron Foundry, I think are made more just for the sake of being able to say you've done it, than for any practical purpose.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
So you thought you'd cap off the five pages with your own pointless rant, just to fit in?