If you remember way back when 1.8 first came out, a lot of people hated endermens' ability to pick up literally any block without provocation from the player. Frequently loaded chunks were soon eaten away by endermen as they would spawn night after night and grab whatever block excited their innate kleptomania.
Players hated this because there was literally no way to prevent it no matter how good a player you were. This is an example of fake difficulty. Something is only truly difficult in a satisfying way if a player with enough skills can overcome it reliably. Creeper explosions are a good example of real difficulty. They only explode if YOU--the player--provoke them. Any excellent hunter can evade them and thus prevent the land from being pocked by creeper craters. It would be pseudo-difficult if creepers were made to just explode at random times with no warning and no provocation from the player. Sure hunting at night would be all the more difficult because of it, but it wouldn't be difficult in a way that could be overcome by player skill.
The new hard mode fire is another example of fake difficulty. Given the frequency of lava pools and the size of biomes, it's pretty much assured that your going to run into one in whatever forest, jungle, or taiga you visit, and since the chunk will be loaded long before you get to the pool--if you ever find it--half the trees will be gone before you even know what was going on.
Some will no doubt respond "But redstone1337, if you don't like hard mode fire, don't play on hard mode." To which I respond thus: I like a lot of the other unique features of hard mode. I like that you can starve to death. I like that zombies can break down doors. I like that some mobs can spawn with armor and weapons. I like that cave spiders can poison you. I like that mobs do more damage. All of these things I just listed are REALLY difficult because a skilled player can overcome them. Hard mode fire is no amount of skill can prevent.
I have a solution, however. Actually restrict infini-fire to hardCORE mode. This is how I originally assumed it would be since dinnerbone kept calling it hardCORE fire in his tweats. It fits perfectly well in hardcore because of the inherently temporary nature of hardcore worlds, and the long history of games incorporating both permadeath and fake difficulty. (i.e. every roguelike ever).
I also remember when 1.8 first came out, the fire burn behavior was changed to the nerfed form it is now. That change was the second most complained about change on the forum, under the lack of interesting terrain, and I for one welcome the return of forest fires.
Also, I still personally think that caving to the vocal minority who complained about Endermen was a terrible decision on Mojang's part. Even back then they wouldn't move stone, and if you don't like it, there are ways of modding it out. At the very least they should have left it in hard difficulty.
The nerf to fire made it from something to be careful with, to "Oops, guess I'll need to replant 4 trees, oh no..." Fire should be something you need to be careful with, besides, have you tried to burn anything down? It could take more than an entire flint and steel for a single part of a forest...
What about water buckets or, as mentioned above, stone barriers?
Honestly, I missed this feature since it was removed. I never thought that it would be brought back but here it is. Finally, a way to clear out forrests easier.
DinnerBone never said hardcore mode for the fire buff, he said hard difficulty. He said the only difference hardcore should have from the other modes is having only one life.
If you remember way back when 1.8 first came out, a lot of people hated endermens' ability to pick up literally any block without provocation from the player. Frequently loaded chunks were soon eaten away by endermen as they would spawn night after night and grab whatever block excited their innate kleptomania.
Players hated this because there was literally no way to prevent it no matter how good a player you were. This is an example of fake difficulty. Something is only truly difficult in a satisfying way if a player with enough skills can overcome it reliably. Creeper explosions are a good example of real difficulty. They only explode if YOU--the player--provoke them. Any excellent hunter can evade them and thus prevent the land from being pocked by creeper craters. It would be pseudo-difficult if creepers were made to just explode at random times with no warning and no provocation from the player. Sure hunting at night would be all the more difficult because of it, but it wouldn't be difficult in a way that could be overcome by player skill.
The new hard mode fire is another example of fake difficulty. Given the frequency of lava pools and the size of biomes, it's pretty much assured that your going to run into one in whatever forest, jungle, or taiga you visit, and since the chunk will be loaded long before you get to the pool--if you ever find it--half the trees will be gone before you even know what was going on.
Some will no doubt respond "But redstone1337, if you don't like hard mode fire, don't play on hard mode." To which I respond thus: I like a lot of the other unique features of hard mode. I like that you can starve to death. I like that zombies can break down doors. I like that some mobs can spawn with armor and weapons. I like that cave spiders can poison you. I like that mobs do more damage. All of these things I just listed are REALLY difficult because a skilled player can overcome them. Hard mode fire is no amount of skill can prevent.
I have a solution, however. Actually restrict infini-fire to hardCORE mode. This is how I originally assumed it would be since dinnerbone kept calling it hardCORE fire in his tweats. It fits perfectly well in hardcore because of the inherently temporary nature of hardcore worlds, and the long history of games incorporating both permadeath and fake difficulty. (i.e. every roguelike ever).
Skill? Ha. Skill has nothing to do with it. Hardcore mode, should punish the **** out of you. There isn't a thing you can do about the fire, that's true. You are POWERLESS. That is another kind of feeling in it's own. The world around you becomes less controllable. You don't need total control. This isn't easy mode dude. This is hard. It's unfair, and sucks, but.... that's why it is called hard mode.
The nerf to fire made it from something to be careful with, to "Oops, guess I'll need to replant 4 trees, oh no..." Fire should be something you need to be careful with, besides, have you tried to burn anything down? It could take more than an entire flint and steel for a single part of a forest...
I like your way of putting it. You need to be careful. Not this current "I can do whatever I wants lulz" attitude. You must learn to respect the world around you, and adapt.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
If you remember way back when 1.8 first came out, a lot of people hated endermens' ability to pick up literally any block without provocation from the player. Frequently loaded chunks were soon eaten away by endermen as they would spawn night after night and grab whatever block excited their innate kleptomania.
Players hated this because there was literally no way to prevent it no matter how good a player you were.
except by lighting up the area around your base so endermen don't spawn and putting blocks they couldn't pick up around the border. (Even in the early 1.8 prereleases there were blocks they couldn't pick up; I believe cobble was one of them).
This is an example of fake difficulty. Something is only truly difficult in a satisfying way if a player with enough skills can overcome it reliably.
I overcame it. I noticed bits of my houses missing and used a bit of common sense. If an endermen cannot get near my house, they cannot destroy it. I believe early on I used iron bars, then outlaid the outside of the bars with cobble (or something, it was one of the early "enderman cannot pick these up" blocks). And of course lit up the area to prevent them from spawning too close.
The new hard mode fire is another example of fake difficulty.
The "new" hard mode fire is not new. It's a reversion of the fire spread nerf they introduced some time ago, and at which time people complained that they were making the game too easy.
Given the frequency of lava pools and the size of biomes, it's pretty much assured that your going to run into one in whatever forest, jungle, or taiga you visit, and since the chunk will be loaded long before you get to the pool--if you ever find it--half the trees will be gone before you even know what was going on.
I made a thread on my experience with this. I was fine with it but the only issue is the massive drain on the system the fire spread causes. I was mining and couldn't figure out why I was only getting 2fps and why 80% of the game time was in the tick. I went to the surface to find the cause was a forest biome up in flames because of a lava pool. I would imagine a fix would be to make lava pools not appear in forest biomes; only biomes that have fewer trees (or, at least, not on the surface in those biomes).
Some will no doubt respond "But redstone1337, if you don't like hard mode fire, don't play on hard mode." To which I respond thus: I like a lot of the other unique features of hard mode. I like that you can starve to death. I like that zombies can break down doors. I like that some mobs can spawn with armor and weapons. I like that cave spiders can poison you. I like that mobs do more damage. All of these things I just listed are REALLY difficult because a skilled player can overcome them. Hard mode fire is no amount of skill can prevent.
I like all the features. All of them; including the fire nerf reversion. Of course the downside is that after they nerfed it I started to build things out of wood and I have a gigantic house made purely out of flammable materials. In a thunderstorm, I actually lost a good bit of the jungle that I built that structure in:
This is what is left. I actually managed to stop it in two ways: first, I actually had a line of jungle trees that I had cut down to the right, so it couldn't spread that way, which meant it's only way to my house (which is just over the hill on the right) was by going over said hill. I saw the lightning hit a tree and acted quickly, by the time I got there (not more than a minute) at least 5 trees were on fire. After trying to put it out with water I decided to try to get it under control by chopping down trees and preventing it from spreading, which worked. It destroyed parts of the jungle behind the hill up to the nearby river and desert (on the left, as well as a bit behind me), but I saved a good 80% of the jungle by acting quickly. If I had continued what I was doing, I would have slept peacefully in my new pink pajamas while the house caught fire, and things got even worse. However I averted it pretty well. Obviously the best solution would be to change my house to use a non-flammable block but I think I will simply "partition" it so that fire in one part of the building won't spread to another.
I have a solution, however. Actually restrict infini-fire to hardCORE mode. This is how I originally assumed it would be since dinnerbone kept calling it hardCORE fire in his tweats. It fits perfectly well in hardcore because of the inherently temporary nature of hardcore worlds, and the long history of games incorporating both permadeath and fake difficulty. (i.e. every roguelike ever).
I would argue that making it so non-player caused or visible fire- like lava lakes- can't occur to begin with. eg. only allowing lava lakes in certain biomes where forest fires won't be a problem. Things like lightning caused fires are something you can watch for, and if you set a forest on fire it's your own fault. Basically, I agree with you in that it should be something the player can prevent; if a few moments after a chunk loads there are 7 trees on fire there really isn't a lot you can do, by the time you even know about the fire it's too late to do anything.
As an aside, with the additional danger of lightning, there ought to be a way to avoid the problem, aside from encasing your house in stone- eg. things like lightning rods, maybe iron blocks? Ideally, your house being set on fire by a lightning strike isn't something you can control- unless you are pretty much right there with a bucket of water you'll lose the house, so there ought to be a way to prevent that, even if it is expensive (it is hard mode, after all)
Perhaps a gamerule that lets you switch between degrees of fire-spreading would suffice (as far as I remember, it's only an on/off toggle right now). Play by Dinnerbone's rules by default; tone it down with a command if you want. Of course, this might make some people feel dirty for "cheating," but I won't judge you.
Its a great idea to have fire spread attached to difficulty. Infini-spread is little too much though, as some players computers simply won't be able to handle a jungle set ablaze and just crash out.
What we need is a world creation option for infinite fire spread, that way you can still play hard unaffected and people won't have to worry about lightning or lava pools crashing minecraft on lower end computers.
And so that way we can even play on easy with infinite spread, it would just take much much longer to eat a jungle.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
*about endermen*(Even in the early 1.8 prereleases there were blocks they couldn't pick up; I believe cobble was one of them)
Nope. In the first snapshot of beta 1.8, they could move everything, even bedrock. Then, Mojang "nerfed" them in 1.8 so they wouldn't move bedrock, and that's it. The bigger "nerf" came at 1.0.
That being said, the whole block-moving ability of Endermen didn't bring any difficulty whatsoever. If they actualy moved block to help other mobs get to you, it would have been the case. But they didn't. You'd light up your house, put some water around and the only thing they could do was to take block out of trees around your base and put them somewhere else. Then, you would come upon a village and an Endermen would have killed himself by removing a block from the blacksmith furnace and releashing the lava. Still to this day I fail to understand how somebody could consider this "difficulty".
In the case of fire however, you mess up with fire and you say good bye to your house/forest. It's your fault. And for the fire caused by surface lava pool, that's how the map created itself. And now that mob can get through portal (which is a thing that was announced a long time ago), you have to take this in consideration before you put down portal everywhere.
In a thunderstorm, I actually lost a good bit of the jungle that I built that structure in:
On hard mode it doesn't seem to extinguish the fire fast enough; by the time it puts it out, the fire has spread to adjacent blocks, and then after the initial block is out, the blocks adjacent that are now on fire spread back to it...
I think that endermen should be able to pick up any natural block in hard mode. Planks, cobble, slabs, bricks, glass, etc are not natural. I welcome this new hard mode fire spreading.
I think that endermen should be able to pick up any natural block in hard mode. Planks, cobble, slabs, bricks, glass, etc are not natural. I welcome this new hard mode fire spreading.
I think they should pick up any UNNATURAL block, and leave natural ones alone.
That way, you have to disguise your house.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Allocators are no longer the future, we have Hoppers now. I still like them, though.
Water buckets are not very helpful for containing a fire like this in minecraft, it spreads faster than the water can. Your best option is to make a fire break and punch what you can out.
Water buckets are not very helpful for containing a fire like this in minecraft, it spreads faster than the water can. Your best option is to make a fire break and punch what you can out.
Water still spreads faster than fire. However, water does not spread as far.
A LOT of water would help stop a fire.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Allocators are no longer the future, we have Hoppers now. I still like them, though.
Water still spreads faster than fire. However, water does not spread as far.
Depends where you place it. Its counter is reset whenever it goes down a level (which still annoys me to this day). So, if you place it high enough, and there are enough obstructions on the way down, water can flood a good portion of the forest/jungle. That being said, it's hardly ACCURATE.
I think that this change is fine.
And if it turns out to cause problems, it shouldn't be nerfed, lava pools should be nerfed.
Players hated this because there was literally no way to prevent it no matter how good a player you were. This is an example of fake difficulty. Something is only truly difficult in a satisfying way if a player with enough skills can overcome it reliably. Creeper explosions are a good example of real difficulty. They only explode if YOU--the player--provoke them. Any excellent hunter can evade them and thus prevent the land from being pocked by creeper craters. It would be pseudo-difficult if creepers were made to just explode at random times with no warning and no provocation from the player. Sure hunting at night would be all the more difficult because of it, but it wouldn't be difficult in a way that could be overcome by player skill.
The new hard mode fire is another example of fake difficulty. Given the frequency of lava pools and the size of biomes, it's pretty much assured that your going to run into one in whatever forest, jungle, or taiga you visit, and since the chunk will be loaded long before you get to the pool--if you ever find it--half the trees will be gone before you even know what was going on.
Some will no doubt respond "But redstone1337, if you don't like hard mode fire, don't play on hard mode." To which I respond thus: I like a lot of the other unique features of hard mode. I like that you can starve to death. I like that zombies can break down doors. I like that some mobs can spawn with armor and weapons. I like that cave spiders can poison you. I like that mobs do more damage. All of these things I just listed are REALLY difficult because a skilled player can overcome them. Hard mode fire is no amount of skill can prevent.
I have a solution, however. Actually restrict infini-fire to hardCORE mode. This is how I originally assumed it would be since dinnerbone kept calling it hardCORE fire in his tweats. It fits perfectly well in hardcore because of the inherently temporary nature of hardcore worlds, and the long history of games incorporating both permadeath and fake difficulty. (i.e. every roguelike ever).
Stone defenses? Too bad they aren't offering any new that you can put round your house that are made out of stone.. oh, wait...
Also, I still personally think that caving to the vocal minority who complained about Endermen was a terrible decision on Mojang's part. Even back then they wouldn't move stone, and if you don't like it, there are ways of modding it out. At the very least they should have left it in hard difficulty.
What about water buckets or, as mentioned above, stone barriers?
Honestly, I missed this feature since it was removed. I never thought that it would be brought back but here it is. Finally, a way to clear out forrests easier.
Skill? Ha. Skill has nothing to do with it. Hardcore mode, should punish the **** out of you. There isn't a thing you can do about the fire, that's true. You are POWERLESS. That is another kind of feeling in it's own. The world around you becomes less controllable. You don't need total control. This isn't easy mode dude. This is hard. It's unfair, and sucks, but.... that's why it is called hard mode.
I like your way of putting it. You need to be careful. Not this current "I can do whatever I wants lulz" attitude. You must learn to respect the world around you, and adapt.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Hardcore is simply hard + perma-death, nothing more.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
It just goes to show that you can't please everyone.
except by lighting up the area around your base so endermen don't spawn and putting blocks they couldn't pick up around the border. (Even in the early 1.8 prereleases there were blocks they couldn't pick up; I believe cobble was one of them).
I overcame it. I noticed bits of my houses missing and used a bit of common sense. If an endermen cannot get near my house, they cannot destroy it. I believe early on I used iron bars, then outlaid the outside of the bars with cobble (or something, it was one of the early "enderman cannot pick these up" blocks). And of course lit up the area to prevent them from spawning too close.
The "new" hard mode fire is not new. It's a reversion of the fire spread nerf they introduced some time ago, and at which time people complained that they were making the game too easy.
I made a thread on my experience with this. I was fine with it but the only issue is the massive drain on the system the fire spread causes. I was mining and couldn't figure out why I was only getting 2fps and why 80% of the game time was in the tick. I went to the surface to find the cause was a forest biome up in flames because of a lava pool. I would imagine a fix would be to make lava pools not appear in forest biomes; only biomes that have fewer trees (or, at least, not on the surface in those biomes).
I like all the features. All of them; including the fire nerf reversion. Of course the downside is that after they nerfed it I started to build things out of wood and I have a gigantic house made purely out of flammable materials. In a thunderstorm, I actually lost a good bit of the jungle that I built that structure in:
This is what is left. I actually managed to stop it in two ways: first, I actually had a line of jungle trees that I had cut down to the right, so it couldn't spread that way, which meant it's only way to my house (which is just over the hill on the right) was by going over said hill. I saw the lightning hit a tree and acted quickly, by the time I got there (not more than a minute) at least 5 trees were on fire. After trying to put it out with water I decided to try to get it under control by chopping down trees and preventing it from spreading, which worked. It destroyed parts of the jungle behind the hill up to the nearby river and desert (on the left, as well as a bit behind me), but I saved a good 80% of the jungle by acting quickly. If I had continued what I was doing, I would have slept peacefully in my new pink pajamas while the house caught fire, and things got even worse. However I averted it pretty well. Obviously the best solution would be to change my house to use a non-flammable block but I think I will simply "partition" it so that fire in one part of the building won't spread to another.
I would argue that making it so non-player caused or visible fire- like lava lakes- can't occur to begin with. eg. only allowing lava lakes in certain biomes where forest fires won't be a problem. Things like lightning caused fires are something you can watch for, and if you set a forest on fire it's your own fault. Basically, I agree with you in that it should be something the player can prevent; if a few moments after a chunk loads there are 7 trees on fire there really isn't a lot you can do, by the time you even know about the fire it's too late to do anything.
As an aside, with the additional danger of lightning, there ought to be a way to avoid the problem, aside from encasing your house in stone- eg. things like lightning rods, maybe iron blocks? Ideally, your house being set on fire by a lightning strike isn't something you can control- unless you are pretty much right there with a bucket of water you'll lose the house, so there ought to be a way to prevent that, even if it is expensive (it is hard mode, after all)
What we need is a world creation option for infinite fire spread, that way you can still play hard unaffected and people won't have to worry about lightning or lava pools crashing minecraft on lower end computers.
And so that way we can even play on easy with infinite spread, it would just take much much longer to eat a jungle.
Nope. In the first snapshot of beta 1.8, they could move everything, even bedrock. Then, Mojang "nerfed" them in 1.8 so they wouldn't move bedrock, and that's it. The bigger "nerf" came at 1.0.
That being said, the whole block-moving ability of Endermen didn't bring any difficulty whatsoever. If they actualy moved block to help other mobs get to you, it would have been the case. But they didn't. You'd light up your house, put some water around and the only thing they could do was to take block out of trees around your base and put them somewhere else. Then, you would come upon a village and an Endermen would have killed himself by removing a block from the blacksmith furnace and releashing the lava. Still to this day I fail to understand how somebody could consider this "difficulty".
In the case of fire however, you mess up with fire and you say good bye to your house/forest. It's your fault. And for the fire caused by surface lava pool, that's how the map created itself. And now that mob can get through portal (which is a thing that was announced a long time ago), you have to take this in consideration before you put down portal everywhere.
Wait. Isn't rain supposed to extinguish fire ?
On hard mode it doesn't seem to extinguish the fire fast enough; by the time it puts it out, the fire has spread to adjacent blocks, and then after the initial block is out, the blocks adjacent that are now on fire spread back to it...
I think they should pick up any UNNATURAL block, and leave natural ones alone.
That way, you have to disguise your house.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Water still spreads faster than fire. However, water does not spread as far.
A LOT of water would help stop a fire.
Depends where you place it. Its counter is reset whenever it goes down a level (which still annoys me to this day). So, if you place it high enough, and there are enough obstructions on the way down, water can flood a good portion of the forest/jungle. That being said, it's hardly ACCURATE.
I think that this change is fine.
And if it turns out to cause problems, it shouldn't be nerfed, lava pools should be nerfed.