So I'm not allowed to defend the selfish community that I'm being lumped in with according to the thread?
If you did none of the mentioned things, then you are not lumped in. All I repeatedly said to everyone was to shut up and be patient, but in a more wordy and verbose manner. I do not feel lumped in, I did what a beta testers does. I test what I get, when its given to me, offer constructive feedback of ow I think it might be improved in relation to the final product, and otherwise wait for the full release.
Personally, I am happy they released a half-finished 1.8 for us instead of making us wait another month for 1.9. We can test out the 1.8 features as beta testers, and then once we get to 1.9 they can ave fixed many 1.8 features as well, so we will get a much better 1.9, and something to amuse us in the meantime that we can also test. This is ideal, and I am quite happy with it. I understand that a game in development only AIMS for dates, and never sets them. Deadlines are not as easy as to hit as you might think, this is not guys in a warehouse moving crates from one palette to another. This is a creative form of information engineering that lends to creating a virtual environment to play in. It can take anywhere from half to twice as long as expected, often times more.
If you can't handle deadlines, spoiled update information, and potential ideas that won't always make it into the game: don't read about them.
Also, for the record: most of you are horribly irresponsible beta testers and don't even deserve the beta updates. I find that a small fraction of people at most even have read the design documents and inspirations for the game, and are not even sure what type of game minecraft is slowly being built into. Protip: its not a block building game, that's a side effect of the engine. OMGWTF. Seriously. Read what the game is based on, what it has always been trying to be built into since it was first designed, and THEN offer feedback. If you cant at least learn about what its trying to be, your feedback is most likely useless, so test bugs and shut the hell up.
I honestly don't think I'm the only one who would be pissed off if the game I paid for released and then crashed on me within the first 5-15 minutes of game play.
im lucky if i get 5 minutes. this memory bug pretty much made my minecraft unplayable.
my view on all this, the update hasn't disappointed me in the slightest. I'm enjoying the vast biomes, the npc'less villages, and all the rest too. honestly, i think there is one improvement to mojangs approach, and that would be to give themselves more time. Say, they think they can have the update done in a week, announce the update release for two weeks, then they have time to deal with unforeseen difficulties, and if god forbid they finish early, they can surprise us all with an early release. win-win, less stress for the devs, less impatience from the community, though im sure there are those of us who would find things to whine about anyway >.>
If you did none of the mentioned things, then you are not lumped in. All I repeatedly said to everyone was to shut up and be patient, but in a more wordy and verbose manner. I do not feel lumped in, I did what a beta testers does. I test what I get, when its given to me, offer constructive feedback of ow I think it might be improved in relation to the final product, and otherwise wait for the full release.
Personally, I am happy they released a half-finished 1.8 for us instead of making us wait another month for 1.9. We can test out the 1.8 features as beta testers, and then once we get to 1.9 they can ave fixed many 1.8 features as well, so we will get a much better 1.9, and something to amuse us in the meantime that we can also test. This is ideal, and I am quite happy with it. I understand that a game in development only AIMS for dates, and never sets them. Deadlines are not as easy as to hit as you might think, this is not guys in a warehouse moving crates from one palette to another. This is a creative form of information engineering that lends to creating a virtual environment to play in. It can take anywhere from half to twice as long as expected, often times more.
If you can't handle deadlines, spoiled update information, and potential ideas that won't always make it into the game: don't read about them.
Also, for the record: most of you are horribly irresponsible beta testers and don't even deserve the beta updates. I find that a small fraction of people at most even have read the design documents and inspirations for the game, and are not even sure what type of game minecraft is slowly being built into. Protip: its not a block building game, that's a side effect of the engine. OMGWTF. Seriously. Read what the game is based on, what it has always been trying to be built into since it was first designed, and THEN offer feedback. If you cant at least learn about what its trying to be, your feedback is most likely useless, so test bugs and shut the hell up.
Games are like books. They mean different things to different people. To me, Minecraft is a sandbox. A very successful one that many people enjoy, in many different ways. You may enjoy it as an adventure game, that guy in the corner may enjoy it as a cave crawling, zombie hunting, survival horror game. The idea that a game has to be only what the designer originally envisioned some years ago needs a revision. Ideas evolve, change, and adapt.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Stupid people say stupid things. Sometimes smart people say stupid things too. It's when the stupid people say smart things that life gets interesting.
New biomes: Removed snow, borders look WORSE than they used to, mountains no longer as interesting or unique.
Extended Farming: Added melons, melon seed, made pumpkins farmable, but seeds only occur in dungeon chests. Ok, sure... but what about the things we already have that we still can't farm? Cocoa beans? Apples? Failure to implement animal farming or sheep regrowing wool.
These where the features I was looking forward for the most in 1.8. The biomes seem OK, thought the boarders could be tidied up a little bit. I did notices deserts with rivers though the middle though, maybe two desert biomes connected.
I was looking forward to the new farming, thinking yay finally I can have an orchard of apple and cocoa trees, and have yet to find any seeds for punkins or melons. :sad.gif: One thing I wondered about is why we don't get seeds back when we make Jack-O-Lanterns. Animal breeding is one I thought would be interesting though some questions do arise. How will we get an animal back to the homestead to place in corrals.
Also, for the record: most of you are horribly irresponsible beta testers and don't even deserve the beta updates. I find that a small fraction of people at most even have read the design documents and inspirations for the game, and are not even sure what type of game minecraft is slowly being built into. Protip: its not a block building game, that's a side effect of the engine. OMGWTF. Seriously. Read what the game is based on, what it has always been trying to be built into since it was first designed, and THEN offer feedback. If you cant at least learn about what its trying to be, your feedback is most likely useless, so test bugs and shut the hell up.
Do you mind explaining exactly how us beta testers are supposed to provide relevant feedback on a build almost completely comprised of unfinished features? (Hint: you can't. The fact that it's a rushed, unfinished build means feedback is irrelevant).
Games are like books. They mean different things to different people. To me, Minecraft is a sandbox. A very successful one that many people enjoy, in many different ways. You may enjoy it as an adventure game, that guy in the corner may enjoy it as a cave crawling, zombie hunting, survival horror game. The idea that a game has to be only what the designer originally envisioned some years ago needs a revision. Ideas evolve, change, and adapt.
Yes, but if you beta-read a book or something, telling them to make the book for you and ignore their own vision would just be useless. Quite frankly, testers are not here to TELL the designer how to make their game, they are here to SUPPORT the designer making their game.
Do you mind explaining exactly how us beta testers are supposed to provide relevant feedback on a build almost completely comprised of unfinished features? (Hint: you can't. The fact that it's a rushed, unfinished build means feedback is irrelevant).
Us. We begged, we spammed, we rushed, we pestered, and we annoyed. We asked for a buggy, incomplete update just so we could play something new, and we got we asked for. We got what we deserved.
Those of you that are happy, fine. Those of you that are unhappy but demanded updates, I suggest you think more about your actions in the future. Those of you that sat quietly and waited, you have my deepest respect. I wish there were more people like you on these forums.
/end community scolding.
yeah I would rath wait 3 months for an update that have a game I can't play, but the reason it is buggy is mojang's fualt they gave int ot the pressure of there fans before it was completed, that just sloppy no matter how you put it
You're the disappointment, whiners are all that is foul in gaming today.
Nothing wrong with the game at all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Yes, but if you beta-read a book or something, telling them to make the book for you and ignore their own vision would just be useless. Quite frankly, testers are not here to TELL the designer how to make their game, they are here to SUPPORT the designer making their game.
Odd hearing that from you. If my memory serves, you were arguing quite the opposite not but a few months ago.
I dunno, isn't there a plan to make nightly versions available in the future?
I like the idea of having optional updates where you choose whether to play a buggy version with new features, or continue to play the most stable version.
Odd hearing that from you. If my memory serves, you were arguing quite the opposite not but a few months ago.
My question stands.
I've been on the 'designer knows more than the player about how to make the player have fun' argument since I first entered the forum. Haven't changed my mind at all about it, in fact I feel stronger than I ever did about it. Then again, its very easy to, as I feel very similar to Notch about design. That is why I play. I see eye to eye with him. I trust this man to make a game I want. I have written simple games myself as well, and beaten hundred(s) of games as well (raised on video games since 1985!), and game design concept is not something I am unfamiliar with. :smile.gif:
Also, if you know what the game is supposed to be (notch has never been ambiguous about his vision), you can easily suggest how you best think that these things will accomplish it. Mojang has its own ideas, and they ignore most of ours, but they do hear some of us.
Honestly no matter how long it takes, EVERY developer should take the time to test it and look for bugs.
The fact that it came with so many bugs shows that they don't care enough to test their update...BEFORE they release it.
Does anyone around here know what Beta means? I mean seriously, go look it up. Every time you say these kinds of things about a beta, it makes you look ignorant.
Its like if you bought a car and then the next day you start complaining that it has four wheels and a steering wheel.
While I respect your viewpoint as being on Mojang's end of this yourself, I do contend that if there isn't enough time for 1-2 hours of general-purpose testing before a release to ensure that basic features function at the very least, it only makes sense to me to delay updates long enough to resolve said general-purpose testing and squashing of any critical bugs that lie therein.
I honestly don't think I'm the only one who would be pissed off if the game I paid for released and then crashed on me within the first 5-15 minutes of game play.
You bought a beta.
Next time, know the risks.
In fact, I think Mojang would be wise to make EVERYONE who purchases it agree that they understand that they are buying into a game that is incomplete and they have the right to change it at their whim. The buyer should also understand that they will run into bugs and some of them could result in the interruption of game play.
Please check this box and type your name here if you agree to these terms.
Actually, I think Mojang has learned their lesson (or more to the point Notch) and will probably never release a game this way ever again.
More accurately: I was promised a cupcake. I expected a cupcake. I got a muffin. Still good, but disappointing.
Even more accurately: You were promised a cupcake. You expected a cupcake. The cupcake was more complicated to build than previously expected. You got a muffin while they finished making your cupcake. Still good, but disappointing. But when you get your cupcake, now its also going to have sprinkles.
In fact, I think Mojang would be wise to make EVERYONE who purchases it agree that they understand that they are buying into a game that is incomplete and they have the right to change it at their whim. The buyer should also understand that they will run into bugs and some of them could result in the interruption of game place.
Please check this box and type your name here if you agree to these terms.
They do actually, people just ignore it.
Also, this person clearly knows nothing about debugging if he thinks it takes 1-2 hours to find and fix bugs :tongue.gif:
Community -- I WAN' 1.8 NOWWWW!!!!11
Mojang -- But there's still errors we need to fix.
Community -- WE DAN' CARE WE WAN' IT NOW!!!111
Mojang -- Alright fine. We've released it
Community -- IT' GOT ERRORS FIX IT NOW!!!111
Mojang -- I told you it'll be buggy...
Even more accurately: You were promised a cupcake. You expected a cupcake. The cupcake was more complicated to build than previously expected. You got a muffin while they finished making your cupcake. Still good, but disappointing. But when you get your cupcake, now its also going to have sprinkles.
They do actually, people just ignore it.
Also, this person clearly knows nothing about debugging if he thinks it takes 1-2 hours to find and fix bugs :tongue.gif:
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying it takes that long to test the absolute most basic things to make sure they at least work.
For ****s sake they could have tested furnaces in under 5 minutes and found the crash bug, especially since the furnace and chest bugs have both happened before. It doesn't take that long to say "Okay I made a new block, lets go hit it with a few different things and see what happens!" either.
If you did none of the mentioned things, then you are not lumped in. All I repeatedly said to everyone was to shut up and be patient, but in a more wordy and verbose manner. I do not feel lumped in, I did what a beta testers does. I test what I get, when its given to me, offer constructive feedback of ow I think it might be improved in relation to the final product, and otherwise wait for the full release.
Personally, I am happy they released a half-finished 1.8 for us instead of making us wait another month for 1.9. We can test out the 1.8 features as beta testers, and then once we get to 1.9 they can ave fixed many 1.8 features as well, so we will get a much better 1.9, and something to amuse us in the meantime that we can also test. This is ideal, and I am quite happy with it. I understand that a game in development only AIMS for dates, and never sets them. Deadlines are not as easy as to hit as you might think, this is not guys in a warehouse moving crates from one palette to another. This is a creative form of information engineering that lends to creating a virtual environment to play in. It can take anywhere from half to twice as long as expected, often times more.
If you can't handle deadlines, spoiled update information, and potential ideas that won't always make it into the game: don't read about them.
Also, for the record: most of you are horribly irresponsible beta testers and don't even deserve the beta updates. I find that a small fraction of people at most even have read the design documents and inspirations for the game, and are not even sure what type of game minecraft is slowly being built into. Protip: its not a block building game, that's a side effect of the engine. OMGWTF. Seriously. Read what the game is based on, what it has always been trying to be built into since it was first designed, and THEN offer feedback. If you cant at least learn about what its trying to be, your feedback is most likely useless, so test bugs and shut the hell up.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
im lucky if i get 5 minutes. this memory bug pretty much made my minecraft unplayable.
Games are like books. They mean different things to different people. To me, Minecraft is a sandbox. A very successful one that many people enjoy, in many different ways. You may enjoy it as an adventure game, that guy in the corner may enjoy it as a cave crawling, zombie hunting, survival horror game. The idea that a game has to be only what the designer originally envisioned some years ago needs a revision. Ideas evolve, change, and adapt.
Either you get a buggy pre-release early and then wait a week for a bug-fix update, or wait and get a functioning update all at once.
It doesn't matter, the end product gets delivered at the same time.
These where the features I was looking forward for the most in 1.8. The biomes seem OK, thought the boarders could be tidied up a little bit. I did notices deserts with rivers though the middle though, maybe two desert biomes connected.
I was looking forward to the new farming, thinking yay finally I can have an orchard of apple and cocoa trees, and have yet to find any seeds for punkins or melons. :sad.gif: One thing I wondered about is why we don't get seeds back when we make Jack-O-Lanterns. Animal breeding is one I thought would be interesting though some questions do arise. How will we get an animal back to the homestead to place in corrals.
..You mean the official update?
Do you mind explaining exactly how us beta testers are supposed to provide relevant feedback on a build almost completely comprised of unfinished features? (Hint: you can't. The fact that it's a rushed, unfinished build means feedback is irrelevant).
Yes, but if you beta-read a book or something, telling them to make the book for you and ignore their own vision would just be useless. Quite frankly, testers are not here to TELL the designer how to make their game, they are here to SUPPORT the designer making their game.
Really? I've never had a problem with this.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
yeah I would rath wait 3 months for an update that have a game I can't play, but the reason it is buggy is mojang's fualt they gave int ot the pressure of there fans before it was completed, that just sloppy no matter how you put it
Nothing wrong with the game at all.
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Odd hearing that from you. If my memory serves, you were arguing quite the opposite not but a few months ago.
My question stands.
I like the idea of having optional updates where you choose whether to play a buggy version with new features, or continue to play the most stable version.
I've been on the 'designer knows more than the player about how to make the player have fun' argument since I first entered the forum. Haven't changed my mind at all about it, in fact I feel stronger than I ever did about it. Then again, its very easy to, as I feel very similar to Notch about design. That is why I play. I see eye to eye with him. I trust this man to make a game I want. I have written simple games myself as well, and beaten hundred(s) of games as well (raised on video games since 1985!), and game design concept is not something I am unfamiliar with. :smile.gif:
Also, if you know what the game is supposed to be (notch has never been ambiguous about his vision), you can easily suggest how you best think that these things will accomplish it. Mojang has its own ideas, and they ignore most of ours, but they do hear some of us.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
Does anyone around here know what Beta means? I mean seriously, go look it up. Every time you say these kinds of things about a beta, it makes you look ignorant.
Its like if you bought a car and then the next day you start complaining that it has four wheels and a steering wheel.
You bought a beta.
Next time, know the risks.
In fact, I think Mojang would be wise to make EVERYONE who purchases it agree that they understand that they are buying into a game that is incomplete and they have the right to change it at their whim. The buyer should also understand that they will run into bugs and some of them could result in the interruption of game play.
Please check this box and type your name here if you agree to these terms.
Actually, I think Mojang has learned their lesson (or more to the point Notch) and will probably never release a game this way ever again.
Even more accurately: You were promised a cupcake. You expected a cupcake. The cupcake was more complicated to build than previously expected. You got a muffin while they finished making your cupcake. Still good, but disappointing. But when you get your cupcake, now its also going to have sprinkles.
They do actually, people just ignore it.
Also, this person clearly knows nothing about debugging if he thinks it takes 1-2 hours to find and fix bugs :tongue.gif:
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
Mojang -- But there's still errors we need to fix.
Community -- WE DAN' CARE WE WAN' IT NOW!!!111
Mojang -- Alright fine. We've released it
Community -- IT' GOT ERRORS FIX IT NOW!!!111
Mojang -- I told you it'll be buggy...
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying it takes that long to test the absolute most basic things to make sure they at least work.
For ****s sake they could have tested furnaces in under 5 minutes and found the crash bug, especially since the furnace and chest bugs have both happened before. It doesn't take that long to say "Okay I made a new block, lets go hit it with a few different things and see what happens!" either.