I like the concept behind endermen. I like the idea that there is something else in your world besides you (or other players) that builds things. I like the way the endermen look, even if the eye color is now magenta. I like that they don't attack you unless you bother them, and I like that they can't give a one hit KO'.
But yes, I find them anoying. They're too much like creepers right now- destroying stuff and making the landscape look terible. I have some ideas on how to fix this, but they'd probably require a lot of time implement.
Slimes only spawn in certain chunks in well lit areas deep underground, which makes them hard to find*. If endermen only spawned in certain chunks, and each chunk could only support one or two endermen, then not only would they be rarer, but there would be specific areas on each map where there damage would be limited too.
This wouldn't work for older maps, but for new worlds it would be possible to scout sites for mega projects for enderman activity before you started building, giving the player some control back.
Posibly, endermen could have territories of a certain number of chunks around there spawn chunk.
2) Make endermen build things.
I really wouldn't mind having chunks ripped out of the land scape as much if they were being used for something. Find in pillar o miscellaneous materials collected from the abandoned village I'm currently living at the outskirts of town is better than having random displaced blocks scattered everywhere. Simple things- little shelter, obelisks, pyramids, huts, maybe covering up ponds... Some ideas I've had:
Building I: endershelter
The S-bend in there keeps sunlight out without them needing to block up the entrance.
Building II: Enderhenge
It's a henge which they add rings onto until it grows to a certain size, like stone henge.
[Might put a picture of the example one I built here later]
Possibly they could only gather materials within a certain distance of the build site, maybe get some by leveling it and stacking up the blocks?
3) Have endermen respect your stuff...
.... But only as long as you respect theirs. If you mess with there buildings, they will take blocks out of yours to repair them. If you build too close to (or on top off) there stuff, they'll tear down your buildings.
Edit: The reason I don't want to completely prevent them from moving your blocks is to provide more incentive to build around them, instead of plowing over them. Endermen systematically taring your structure should be the "scarry" threat, because nothing is going to match the creeper in combat without becoming a "boss" monster. But it needs to be avoidable- Like notch said, it's worse knowing that you are responsible for a disaster. It adds some of the challenge that people are complaining is missing from this mob by requiring a bit more planing and some careful observation before you start building.
4) Let endermen take advantage of their teleportation ability.
Right now they only telleport when they're trying to murder you. Now, what would be interesting would be to see them telleport when they were damaged, such as underground or into a sheltered spot when exposed to sunlight or rain. This should also make them harder to fight- you wouldn't be able to get more than one hit in before they moved.
5) Give endermen the ability to form tribes and work together.
This only works with idea 1. Basicly, if two or endermen spawn near each other (for our sake, lets say within 7 chunks), they collaborate together on building projects.
Edit: Incredibly stupid idea: The enderman eye file is separate from the rest of the skin. If they form tribes, have their eyes change colors to match others in the same group?
Edit 2: I'm starting to think having the endermen cooperate with each other, including all aggroing at once, might be the best way to make them more powerful in combat. You can't look at them all at once...
----
* I have seen only one slime the entire time I've played minecraft.
Feedback will be read and considered, unless said feedback involves endermen shooting diamond lasers out of their eyes.
^^Probably. Pigmen are dangerous because they all attack at once, so I don't see why endermen shouldn't if they're already building something together.
^I think that falls under them finding shelter during the day. Also, I want a picture of that now.
Honestly I just want block moving removed in general.
The teleporting abilities induce fear, whereas block displacement (see creepers) merely causes anguish.
I should have to be afraid of the mob, not be afraid of the mob desolating my surroundings.
Honestly I just want block moving removed in general.
The teleporting abilities induce fear, whereas block displacement (see creepers) merely causes anguish.
I should have to be afraid of the mob, not be afraid of the mob desolating my surroundings.
Endermen can't move half-blocks (Slabs), so just build up a fence out of these things, saves grief later on when they're stalking about.
Also, I was a bit disappointed with Endermen, they're easy to foil with their teleportation, granted that's probably still being worked on. I, however, am still a fan of this particular video on Youtube:
A guy can dream, right? Or are those nightmares...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Turning "Limit Framerate: OFF" to "ON"will often solve many problems on SMP servers that would otherwise be considered lag. Remember this.
Really none of these address the real issue, they are just map griefers. Respecting our own stuff is a step in the right direction, but for the way some of us do things it's not enough. There just is no point in the ability to move any blocks, its not scary, its not challenging, its nothing other then annoying.
Other then moving blocks I really like the combat mechanics with them so keep all that.
I really love your idea about having them actually "build" things, even if it's just simple pillars, or a "circle" of blocks.
Imagine walking into an area and noticing, suddenly, you've wandered into a large clear space with a one level high circle around you...
I was thinking, what if they would shy away from "non-terrestrial" lights, like glowstone. It would be a way to protect your dwellings, but would still take effort to do?
@ people people who want the endermen to lose block moving abilities:
Most of what I like about endermen is the idea that there is something in my minecraft world that is also building- but isn't another player.
I just don't like the way they're moving blocks now. It's like the difrence between a one year old tottering up knocking over your big sand castle and a two year old tottering up and building a little one-bucket one next to yours. Yes, they messed up the "lawn", but it's still nice.
I was thinking, what if they would shy away from "non-terrestrial" lights, like glowstone. It would be a way to protect your dwellings, but would still take effort to do?
I'm not thinking of ways to repel them, just ways to alter their AI so that they're less annoying and more interesting.
I've finished a few other ender-structures in creative mode. Anyone have any ideas on how many blocks is too many blocks for an enderman to move and place, assuming they telleport back after they find a block?
How far do they reach, exactly? I've never seen one take anything from above chest height.
I would like to see them abuse their teleportation, I'd like to see them build things, and I'd like them not to touch anything player placed, as well as a boost of about 4 hearts in health.
Seems easy enough.
One interesting thing I find though, people don't complain as much when a creeper blows up a portion of their house, but if an ender snags a few bits of their stuff they freak out.
I myself find such antics adorable, and easily fixed. All I really care about is an audio update, when they open their mouths I want to hear their blood curdling screech, I want them to add atmosphere.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
One interesting thing I find though, people don't complain as much when a creeper blows up a portion of their house, but if an ender snags a few bits of their stuff they freak out.
Well, I think that's because if you've had enough experience with creepers (aka being exploded), you can learn ways to avoid them and let them creep about, or you can snipe them.
Endermen are different, because they need not be hostile towards you when they 'grief'. They just go 'bout picking up and placing blocks as they please.
My only problem with endermen is that when they die or despawn while holding a block, that block disappears with them. I hope Notch addresses this issue in the future.
On topic: I really would like to see them build structures, Notch is probably still working on that. And yes, they are definitely too easy to defeat.
Really none of these address the real issue, they are just map griefers. Respecting our own stuff is a step in the right direction, but for the way some of us do things it's not enough. There just is no point in the ability to move any blocks, its not scary, its not challenging, its nothing other then annoying.
Other then moving blocks I really like the combat mechanics with them so keep all that.
QFT
I've played minecraft for almost a year now. This is the first time I've felt a new feature doesn't work in the game and I felt compelled to actually register on a forum to talk about it.
Endermen are destroying nearby pristine forests (there are at least 6 or 7 'floating trees' with a patch work of leaf blocks missing or scattered around the ground) and I've only played 4-5 hours in 1.8 so far. When they die in the morning any blocks they are holding disappear meaning this can't be repaired easily. Caves where they spawn all the time are a harder to navigate. A few of my structures on the outskirts of my area have been griefed as well.
This is nothing major but over time this will add up and it will be 10x worse on SMP servers. Who wants to play clean up?
The worst thing about the endermen is that when Notch posted about their design process he said this.
So this new mob spawns outside of your visual range, moves or deletes blocks that may be of value to you (structurally or aesthetically) and there is *nothing* you can do about it (besides taking ridiculous measures, like lighting up areas greater than several football fields or surrounding all your structures with water). This is definitely penalizing us for something we can't control. Creepers are fun because if they do damage most of the time it is your fault ... It is avoidable.
That being said, I like the combat mechanics of the mob (teleporting, high damage output and getting angry for looking at them).
So I would actually suggest these 3 steps to improve upon them, making them simultaneously more dangerous and less annoying.
1) Remove their ability to pick up blocks entirely with the exception of ....
2) ... when they are angry at you. When angered they will begin to move blocks in order to specifically get at you. This also only penalizes you for something you can control. They will destroy your fort but only if you are inside and looking at them.
3) Increase their attack damage slightly ~maybe~
Any thoughts on those changes?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When no one was looking, the Endermen took forty blocks.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
I just can't think of endermen as a combat mob. Maybe if they were more like pigmen (attacking in groups when angered) they could be dangerous without making them too powerful- the "freaze when looked at" thing makes them really non-threatening.
If I have free time tomorrow I'll start breaking down the things that (I think) would need to be done to make this work as a mod. I don't program, but I'm curious to know how complected things would get.
But yes, I find them anoying. They're too much like creepers right now- destroying stuff and making the landscape look terible. I have some ideas on how to fix this, but they'd probably require a lot of time implement.
Edit: Made a little update to item
Edit 2: I've realized that maybe the best way to handle endermen is to make them NPC-like, if not full NPCs.
Edit 3: Here is another good thread on changes that might improve endermen, by EldingArtist.
1) Make endermen spawn like slimes.
Slimes only spawn in certain chunks in well lit areas deep underground, which makes them hard to find*. If endermen only spawned in certain chunks, and each chunk could only support one or two endermen, then not only would they be rarer, but there would be specific areas on each map where there damage would be limited too.
This wouldn't work for older maps, but for new worlds it would be possible to scout sites for mega projects for enderman activity before you started building, giving the player some control back.
Posibly, endermen could have territories of a certain number of chunks around there spawn chunk.
2) Make endermen build things.
I really wouldn't mind having chunks ripped out of the land scape as much if they were being used for something. Find in pillar o miscellaneous materials collected from the abandoned village I'm currently living at the outskirts of town is better than having random displaced blocks scattered everywhere. Simple things- little shelter, obelisks, pyramids, huts, maybe covering up ponds... Some ideas I've had:
Building I: endershelter
The S-bend in there keeps sunlight out without them needing to block up the entrance.
Building II: Enderhenge
It's a henge which they add rings onto until it grows to a certain size, like stone henge.
[Might put a picture of the example one I built here later]
Possibly they could only gather materials within a certain distance of the build site, maybe get some by leveling it and stacking up the blocks?
3) Have endermen respect your stuff...
.... But only as long as you respect theirs. If you mess with there buildings, they will take blocks out of yours to repair them. If you build too close to (or on top off) there stuff, they'll tear down your buildings.
Edit: The reason I don't want to completely prevent them from moving your blocks is to provide more incentive to build around them, instead of plowing over them. Endermen systematically taring your structure should be the "scarry" threat, because nothing is going to match the creeper in combat without becoming a "boss" monster. But it needs to be avoidable- Like notch said, it's worse knowing that you are responsible for a disaster. It adds some of the challenge that people are complaining is missing from this mob by requiring a bit more planing and some careful observation before you start building.
4) Let endermen take advantage of their teleportation ability.
Right now they only telleport when they're trying to murder you. Now, what would be interesting would be to see them telleport when they were damaged, such as underground or into a sheltered spot when exposed to sunlight or rain. This should also make them harder to fight- you wouldn't be able to get more than one hit in before they moved.
5) Give endermen the ability to form tribes and work together.
This only works with idea 1. Basicly, if two or endermen spawn near each other (for our sake, lets say within 7 chunks), they collaborate together on building projects.
Edit: Incredibly stupid idea: The enderman eye file is separate from the rest of the skin. If they form tribes, have their eyes change colors to match others in the same group?
Edit 2: I'm starting to think having the endermen cooperate with each other, including all aggroing at once, might be the best way to make them more powerful in combat. You can't look at them all at once...
----
* I have seen only one slime the entire time I've played minecraft.
Feedback will be read and considered, unless said feedback involves endermen shooting diamond lasers out of their eyes.
say if i attack one will the other attack me?
^I think that falls under them finding shelter during the day. Also, I want a picture of that now.
Lol. Whatever they're up to, I want no part of it.
The teleporting abilities induce fear, whereas block displacement (see creepers) merely causes anguish.
I should have to be afraid of the mob, not be afraid of the mob desolating my surroundings.
Endermen can't move half-blocks (Slabs), so just build up a fence out of these things, saves grief later on when they're stalking about.
Also, I was a bit disappointed with Endermen, they're easy to foil with their teleportation, granted that's probably still being worked on. I, however, am still a fan of this particular video on Youtube:
A guy can dream, right? Or are those nightmares...
Other then moving blocks I really like the combat mechanics with them so keep all that.
Imagine walking into an area and noticing, suddenly, you've wandered into a large clear space with a one level high circle around you...
I was thinking, what if they would shy away from "non-terrestrial" lights, like glowstone. It would be a way to protect your dwellings, but would still take effort to do?
Most of what I like about endermen is the idea that there is something in my minecraft world that is also building- but isn't another player.
I just don't like the way they're moving blocks now. It's like the difrence between a one year old tottering up knocking over your big sand castle and a two year old tottering up and building a little one-bucket one next to yours. Yes, they messed up the "lawn", but it's still nice.
I'm not thinking of ways to repel them, just ways to alter their AI so that they're less annoying and more interesting.
How far do they reach, exactly? I've never seen one take anything from above chest height.
Seems easy enough.
One interesting thing I find though, people don't complain as much when a creeper blows up a portion of their house, but if an ender snags a few bits of their stuff they freak out.
I myself find such antics adorable, and easily fixed. All I really care about is an audio update, when they open their mouths I want to hear their blood curdling screech, I want them to add atmosphere.
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Well, I think that's because if you've had enough experience with creepers (aka being exploded), you can learn ways to avoid them and let them creep about, or you can snipe them.
Endermen are different, because they need not be hostile towards you when they 'grief'. They just go 'bout picking up and placing blocks as they please.
My only problem with endermen is that when they die or despawn while holding a block, that block disappears with them. I hope Notch addresses this issue in the future.
On topic: I really would like to see them build structures, Notch is probably still working on that. And yes, they are definitely too easy to defeat.
I've played minecraft for almost a year now. This is the first time I've felt a new feature doesn't work in the game and I felt compelled to actually register on a forum to talk about it.
Endermen are destroying nearby pristine forests (there are at least 6 or 7 'floating trees' with a patch work of leaf blocks missing or scattered around the ground) and I've only played 4-5 hours in 1.8 so far. When they die in the morning any blocks they are holding disappear meaning this can't be repaired easily. Caves where they spawn all the time are a harder to navigate. A few of my structures on the outskirts of my area have been griefed as well.
This is nothing major but over time this will add up and it will be 10x worse on SMP servers. Who wants to play clean up?
The worst thing about the endermen is that when Notch posted about their design process he said this.
Notch - "Don’t penalize the player for things they can’t control."
So this new mob spawns outside of your visual range, moves or deletes blocks that may be of value to you (structurally or aesthetically) and there is *nothing* you can do about it (besides taking ridiculous measures, like lighting up areas greater than several football fields or surrounding all your structures with water). This is definitely penalizing us for something we can't control. Creepers are fun because if they do damage most of the time it is your fault ... It is avoidable.
That being said, I like the combat mechanics of the mob (teleporting, high damage output and getting angry for looking at them).
So I would actually suggest these 3 steps to improve upon them, making them simultaneously more dangerous and less annoying.
1) Remove their ability to pick up blocks entirely with the exception of ....
2) ... when they are angry at you. When angered they will begin to move blocks in order to specifically get at you. This also only penalizes you for something you can control. They will destroy your fort but only if you are inside and looking at them.
3) Increase their attack damage slightly ~maybe~
Any thoughts on those changes?
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
Edit: Holy carp! So many posts! O_O
I just can't think of endermen as a combat mob. Maybe if they were more like pigmen (attacking in groups when angered) they could be dangerous without making them too powerful- the "freaze when looked at" thing makes them really non-threatening.
If I have free time tomorrow I'll start breaking down the things that (I think) would need to be done to make this work as a mod. I don't program, but I'm curious to know how complected things would get.
I want endermen to be NPCish, if not full NPCs.