I just raged a little inside.
Peaceful is Minecraft without mobs.
Creative is Minecraft with infinite blocks.
It's ok he is wrong.
When you make a world you choose survival or creative.
When in survival game you can set a difficulty from easy to hard.
He is basing his statement on old information from back when Notch wanted to replace difficulty with 'realism' and have each mode progressivly add more mechanics to make it more realistic and 'harder' like hunger, fall damage, etc.
I think this is actually good. Sure there will be peeps who are all like: OMG d1z i5 5tup1d cuz i ph41l 4 di5 g4m3 41r3ady n dun waaant hung3R b4R111111111
But it adds some more elements of survival. You can no longer dig a three deep hole and seal yourself in to be safe. You must hunt! Or farm...
Is it sick that I had the meanest smile when I heard that? I'm happy it's an unavoidable feature.
ALSO: Food will NOT be hard to get, even in the beginning. All you need is 3 sticks and 2 strings for presumably enough food for a few hours worth of gameplay.
I think I'll be fine with mandatory hunger. Its basically a total revamp of food, which is already somewhat essential. Maybe in peaceful they will disable food, I don't know.
It is FACT. I can confirm, in an interview of Notch (it is him), that Hunger bar WILL NOT BE OPTIONAL AT ALL.
My opinion: I expected this. Notch as I've openly stated, does not know how to design games. He designs them like toys, they're fun, he wants them, he takes them and puts them into his little world. You don't exist, only he does. Simple really, whether we like it or not.
Please, be constructive in your flaming of this, and don't curse, rant, scream, but explain why you think this is a bad idea. :smile.gif:
NOTCH. IS. GOD. but yea i think keeping the hunger bar there will be good, and i can keep hearing the "om nom nom" sound. when u eat food. :laugh.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please click this. Don't worry, it's not a screamer or any crap like that.
Remember, he originally did intend to make hunger optional.
Now, he has it well-integrated into the game. I mean, all of these features now depend on hunger:
health regen
food stacking
sprinting
poison
extra food sources
If hunger is toggleable, all of these have to work in different ways. Then he would have to balance te game against both paradigms. The hunger bar is not just "eat food or die!", it is a veritiable game mechanic now.
The only real way I can see disabling hunger without messing up every other mechanic revolving around it would be to disable starvation. Keep the hunger bar, disable the damage from not eating. Disable sprinting if the food bar is empty.
As for everyone saying "Notch didn't want to add hunger", he gave a reason he didn't want it. The reason was that food already had a use. This restructuring makes perfect sense in light of that objection. It keeps the general purpose of food being to heal you, but restructures it to blend with the hunger system. In that same change, he balances out and fixes several issues with the game. It fixes the ability to spam porkchops to artifically boost your survival in a single battle. It allows food to be stacked, which in turn fixes the problem of food clogging up chests, as well as the problem with cooking pork. Having to stand there and manually juggle the pork has always been a problem with the game. It was an unfortunate side effect of unstackable food, not a real design choice. Tying sprinting to food means that food's use in the game is expanded. This entire paradigm helps correct the over abundance of food, and gives a real reason to establish farms. Being able to establish farms means the game shouldn't end because you consumed all the food in the area. Having it linked to ativity eliminates the problem of people starving while not present, or otherwise require resources for doing nothing. While starvation is a threat, it is not a real danger. Death in games is not something that is supposed to actually happen, but it serves as something to avoid.
I'll admit, at first I thought the idea of a hunger bar was moronic, and I opposed people who suggested it. I was shocked when Notch said he was going to add it. But honestly, the design is very solid.It is well-integrated, fixes a lot of existing problems. Its one downside is that you have to spend a couple seconds eating food every once in a while. Considering everything, that is a very minor tradeoff. In fact, most of the time that will be hidden. If you get hurt, you will be eating anyways. The food eaten after sprinting will keep you alive, and pays for the sprint. The times when you eat purely to not starve are likely to be fairly rare. The exact rate yoru hunger bar drops will certainly need balancing, but Notch realizes this, and has mentioned it in one of the videos.
So before everybody panics(too late, I know) that this is being forces on you, give it a chance. See how the game plays with it. It probably works better than you think.
I never cared for mods that add in hunger. I go though enough food exploring caves and healing from taking damage. Now I have to also worry about starving?It would have been better if they left it in an optional. I can say I'm going to be one of those that will be looking for a mod to turn this off.
It's not the inease of getting food that pisses me off (because it's really quite easy!). It's not the fact that it can kill me that pisses me off. In reality, I wouldn't have any issue managing my hunger bar.
It's simply the fact that the player can no longer reliably heal at all! that pisses me off. If I'm down to two hearts of HP in a cave, I can just chomp on two porkchops and get back into the action. I think this is fun, as there's little time wasted and I can get back into the fighting quickly like every other game on the planet I've played that allows storable inventory. But hunger being linked to healing encourages camping. Now I can chomp on two porkchops to refill my hunger bar. I've wasted 3.2 seconds at this point. I have 16 points of health to regen. At the 5 sec per point rate, that means it takes me 80 seconds to regenerate. And god help you should a creeper or zombie come in and catch you off-guard.
It's not the inease of getting food that pisses me off (because it's really quite easy!). It's not the fact that it can kill me that pisses me off. In reality, I wouldn't have any issue managing my hunger bar.
It's simply the fact that the player can no longer reliably heal at all! that pisses me off. If I'm down to two hearts of HP in a cave, I can just chomp on two porkchops and get back into the action. I think this is fun, as there's little time wasted and I can get back into the fighting quickly like every other game on the planet I've played that allows storable inventory. But hunger being linked to healing encourages camping. Now I can chomp on two porkchops to refill my hunger bar. I've wasted 3.2 seconds at this point. I have 16 points of health to regen. At the 5 sec per point rate, that means it takes me 80 seconds to regenerate. And god help you should a creeper or zombie come in and catch you off-guard.
I have to agree with this. Was there any talk of health potions or anything like that? I don't mind the mandatory hunger thing, you have to eat now, and you will still have to eat in 1.8, just for different reasons. But IMO there should still be a way of instantly healing. Maybe have craftable health potions that have a cooldown or something, that way you can't spam them like with food now.
YES NOW IM NOT GOING TO BE THE ONLY ONE DOING IT. And anyway it wouldn't make sense if it was optional, because then the whole vomit feature would do nothing because it apparently drains hunger.
It's not the inease of getting food that pisses me off (because it's really quite easy!). It's not the fact that it can kill me that pisses me off. In reality, I wouldn't have any issue managing my hunger bar.
It's simply the fact that the player can no longer reliably heal at all! that pisses me off. If I'm down to two hearts of HP in a cave, I can just chomp on two porkchops and get back into the action. I think this is fun, as there's little time wasted and I can get back into the fighting quickly like every other game on the planet I've played that allows storable inventory. But hunger being linked to healing encourages camping. Now I can chomp on two porkchops to refill my hunger bar. I've wasted 3.2 seconds at this point. I have 16 points of health to regen. At the 5 sec per point rate, that means it takes me 80 seconds to regenerate. And god help you should a creeper or zombie come in and catch you off-guard.
Well sure, if you are going to sit in the corner crying becuase you have a scratch, then regen will not be fun. But being worn down over time is an interesting and key mechanic. If you can simply heal after any scratch, then a single encounter has to be enough to kill you. If that healing can occur in-combat, then the encounter must be more than enough to kill you. With this, you will be breifly vulnerable after a fight, and need to be more cautious.
This takes out the "who has more pork?" element of pvp. the winner of a battle should not be the one with more healing items. That is a horrible mechanic. When we get bosses, preparing to fight them should not involve filling your quick bar with healing. I detest boss battles based around the premise that you will have 10x as much health as you really do, becaue they know you will be juicing on healing. If your heal mechanic is a slow regen, you can still get a few extra hearts out of it, and taking a slower, more defensive approach to the combat is more viable, as time alive tranlates into more health.
If you are in a tough battle that is taking its toll, I think needing to retreat and recoup is a good thing. Retreat, fortify you location, return to battle. Actually be in danger for a time, isntead of throwing all the risk in the waste basket becasue you have a peice of meat.
I had a nice counterpost written up, but it turns out that the MCF is too unstable for me to actually post so it got eaten.
But, the system effectively forces camping because moving around causes hunger to decrease (you seem to have forgotten that I mentioned "critical health" in this situation). Any encounter in Minecraft is already more than enough to kill you if you let it, and this is not as hard as it seems, sometimes. Three zombies can do amazing damage without trying. Skeleton archers on normal do 2 hearts worth of damage and have nasty kickback. Creepers... well creepers took me from fully armored at 10 hearts of hp to half a heart of HP without trying. There was a skeleton archer in the room, and if he had marginally better accuracy, he would have gotten me. Spiders jump. They can be unpredictable and hard to hit, especially in groups.
I do feel slightly bad that I am going to be constantly modding the game to be "easier" (what I mean by that, of course, is "less annoying") and so for that reason I will actually try modern survival, but at the same time, I will definitely spend most of my time in classic survival, once the mods come.
I had a nice counterpost written up, but it turns out that the MCF is too unstable for me to actually post so it got eaten.
But, the system effectively forces camping because moving around causes hunger to decrease (you seem to have forgotten that I mentioned "critical health" in this situation). Any encounter in Minecraft is already more than enough to kill you if you let it, and this is not as hard as it seems, sometimes. Three zombies can do amazing damage without trying. Skeleton archers on normal do 2 hearts worth of damage and have nasty kickback. Creepers... well creepers took me from fully armored at 10 hearts of hp to half a heart of HP without trying. There was a skeleton archer in the room, and if he had marginally better accuracy, he would have gotten me. Spiders jump. They can be unpredictable and hard to hit, especially in groups.
You have no idea how many paragraphs I have written that these forumns have eaten. I can recover some of them because opera is awesome and remembers what I typed, but if I'm not at home, they tend to just be gone.
They are still tweaking the food mechancis, but they have already said they made it so you get a grace period after eating before your hunger starts to drop. That eliminates any need to stand still after eating.
And my point was thateven at criitcal health, you don't need to wait till you are full. It won't take long to get out of critical health, and you can do plenty of healing while continuing with adequate health. Most encounters you have will only be an enemy or two, and can be handled without much health. I'm presuming that if a battle just dropped you to 1/2 a heart, then you havbe probably cleared the area of the threat and are out of immediate danger, and hence can take some time to heal, or you have retreated from a tough encounter, in which case taking some time to recoup has more impact than eating a porkchop.
I guess if the grace period lasts long enough, and you can get enough HP up in time, I could live with it. (and when I say "live with it", I mean play 1.8 survival more than I expected, since nothing at this point is going to stop me from making classic survival).
Perhaps I should stop worrying about hunger, as the more people argue with me the more I realize it's not the worst system ever (it's also not the best though, and I prefer things as they are), and if I don't like it, I have the capability myself to make a toggle button for it, and just leave the hunger fans alone, as they have their own opinions (which I never disagreed with, I am willing to accept that someone has a different opinion than mine), so perhaps I should start focusing on the aspects of 1.8 that are actually worse...
Like everything being half-implemented, even the things I truly like. Not going to get into this argument in that thread here, though.
It's ok he is wrong.
When you make a world you choose survival or creative.
When in survival game you can set a difficulty from easy to hard.
He is basing his statement on old information from back when Notch wanted to replace difficulty with 'realism' and have each mode progressivly add more mechanics to make it more realistic and 'harder' like hunger, fall damage, etc.
But it adds some more elements of survival. You can no longer dig a three deep hole and seal yourself in to be safe. You must hunt! Or farm...
BBCode Render failed due to reaching MaxNestingDepth(80) for Tag: spoiler
ALSO: Food will NOT be hard to get, even in the beginning. All you need is 3 sticks and 2 strings for presumably enough food for a few hours worth of gameplay.
No, I did the same thing.
Sorry, in several interviews he DID switch from survival to creative in a pre-made world.
I'm a pixel artist who makes pixel things and maps! I also do line art occasionally.
I have two work in progress resource packs!
This is the second one!
And of course, by "work-in-progress" I mean "will never, ever be completed".
NOTCH. IS. GOD. but yea i think keeping the hunger bar there will be good, and i can keep hearing the "om nom nom" sound. when u eat food. :laugh.gif:
Now, he has it well-integrated into the game. I mean, all of these features now depend on hunger:
health regen
food stacking
sprinting
poison
extra food sources
If hunger is toggleable, all of these have to work in different ways. Then he would have to balance te game against both paradigms. The hunger bar is not just "eat food or die!", it is a veritiable game mechanic now.
The only real way I can see disabling hunger without messing up every other mechanic revolving around it would be to disable starvation. Keep the hunger bar, disable the damage from not eating. Disable sprinting if the food bar is empty.
As for everyone saying "Notch didn't want to add hunger", he gave a reason he didn't want it. The reason was that food already had a use. This restructuring makes perfect sense in light of that objection. It keeps the general purpose of food being to heal you, but restructures it to blend with the hunger system. In that same change, he balances out and fixes several issues with the game. It fixes the ability to spam porkchops to artifically boost your survival in a single battle. It allows food to be stacked, which in turn fixes the problem of food clogging up chests, as well as the problem with cooking pork. Having to stand there and manually juggle the pork has always been a problem with the game. It was an unfortunate side effect of unstackable food, not a real design choice. Tying sprinting to food means that food's use in the game is expanded. This entire paradigm helps correct the over abundance of food, and gives a real reason to establish farms. Being able to establish farms means the game shouldn't end because you consumed all the food in the area. Having it linked to ativity eliminates the problem of people starving while not present, or otherwise require resources for doing nothing. While starvation is a threat, it is not a real danger. Death in games is not something that is supposed to actually happen, but it serves as something to avoid.
I'll admit, at first I thought the idea of a hunger bar was moronic, and I opposed people who suggested it. I was shocked when Notch said he was going to add it. But honestly, the design is very solid.It is well-integrated, fixes a lot of existing problems. Its one downside is that you have to spend a couple seconds eating food every once in a while. Considering everything, that is a very minor tradeoff. In fact, most of the time that will be hidden. If you get hurt, you will be eating anyways. The food eaten after sprinting will keep you alive, and pays for the sprint. The times when you eat purely to not starve are likely to be fairly rare. The exact rate yoru hunger bar drops will certainly need balancing, but Notch realizes this, and has mentioned it in one of the videos.
So before everybody panics(too late, I know) that this is being forces on you, give it a chance. See how the game plays with it. It probably works better than you think.
Gone are the days that you can put sit around in your house doing nothing.
It's simply the fact that the player can no longer reliably heal at all! that pisses me off. If I'm down to two hearts of HP in a cave, I can just chomp on two porkchops and get back into the action. I think this is fun, as there's little time wasted and I can get back into the fighting quickly like every other game on the planet I've played that allows storable inventory. But hunger being linked to healing encourages camping. Now I can chomp on two porkchops to refill my hunger bar. I've wasted 3.2 seconds at this point. I have 16 points of health to regen. At the 5 sec per point rate, that means it takes me 80 seconds to regenerate. And god help you should a creeper or zombie come in and catch you off-guard.
"sometimes, wizards are so awesome, it hurts"
I have to agree with this. Was there any talk of health potions or anything like that? I don't mind the mandatory hunger thing, you have to eat now, and you will still have to eat in 1.8, just for different reasons. But IMO there should still be a way of instantly healing. Maybe have craftable health potions that have a cooldown or something, that way you can't spam them like with food now.
Well sure, if you are going to sit in the corner crying becuase you have a scratch, then regen will not be fun. But being worn down over time is an interesting and key mechanic. If you can simply heal after any scratch, then a single encounter has to be enough to kill you. If that healing can occur in-combat, then the encounter must be more than enough to kill you. With this, you will be breifly vulnerable after a fight, and need to be more cautious.
This takes out the "who has more pork?" element of pvp. the winner of a battle should not be the one with more healing items. That is a horrible mechanic. When we get bosses, preparing to fight them should not involve filling your quick bar with healing. I detest boss battles based around the premise that you will have 10x as much health as you really do, becaue they know you will be juicing on healing. If your heal mechanic is a slow regen, you can still get a few extra hearts out of it, and taking a slower, more defensive approach to the combat is more viable, as time alive tranlates into more health.
If you are in a tough battle that is taking its toll, I think needing to retreat and recoup is a good thing. Retreat, fortify you location, return to battle. Actually be in danger for a time, isntead of throwing all the risk in the waste basket becasue you have a peice of meat.
But, the system effectively forces camping because moving around causes hunger to decrease (you seem to have forgotten that I mentioned "critical health" in this situation). Any encounter in Minecraft is already more than enough to kill you if you let it, and this is not as hard as it seems, sometimes. Three zombies can do amazing damage without trying. Skeleton archers on normal do 2 hearts worth of damage and have nasty kickback. Creepers... well creepers took me from fully armored at 10 hearts of hp to half a heart of HP without trying. There was a skeleton archer in the room, and if he had marginally better accuracy, he would have gotten me. Spiders jump. They can be unpredictable and hard to hit, especially in groups.
I do feel slightly bad that I am going to be constantly modding the game to be "easier" (what I mean by that, of course, is "less annoying") and so for that reason I will actually try modern survival, but at the same time, I will definitely spend most of my time in classic survival, once the mods come.
"sometimes, wizards are so awesome, it hurts"
You have no idea how many paragraphs I have written that these forumns have eaten. I can recover some of them because opera is awesome and remembers what I typed, but if I'm not at home, they tend to just be gone.
They are still tweaking the food mechancis, but they have already said they made it so you get a grace period after eating before your hunger starts to drop. That eliminates any need to stand still after eating.
And my point was thateven at criitcal health, you don't need to wait till you are full. It won't take long to get out of critical health, and you can do plenty of healing while continuing with adequate health. Most encounters you have will only be an enemy or two, and can be handled without much health. I'm presuming that if a battle just dropped you to 1/2 a heart, then you havbe probably cleared the area of the threat and are out of immediate danger, and hence can take some time to heal, or you have retreated from a tough encounter, in which case taking some time to recoup has more impact than eating a porkchop.
Perhaps I should stop worrying about hunger, as the more people argue with me the more I realize it's not the worst system ever (it's also not the best though, and I prefer things as they are), and if I don't like it, I have the capability myself to make a toggle button for it, and just leave the hunger fans alone, as they have their own opinions (which I never disagreed with, I am willing to accept that someone has a different opinion than mine), so perhaps I should start focusing on the aspects of 1.8 that are actually worse...
Like everything being half-implemented, even the things I truly like. Not going to get into this argument in that thread here, though.
"sometimes, wizards are so awesome, it hurts"