If they are going to give us a workaround, I would honestly perfer a decent workaround. I can live with a workaround, but there's some serious flaws with the current workaround.
Yeah... not cutting it. Not cutting it at all.
Likewise, it took me under ten minutes to implement this:
Assuming I have ten minutes to devote to adding a nice feature that I want, route two would obviously be my best choice. It's not very fancy, but I can put a block on the table and have it so it doesn't float midair. Adding logic to make it so that the posts are only at the corner would probably take an additional five minutes, maybe ten if I'm distracted or tired, like I am right now. Remember that many features in MC were features added on a whim. Tall grass, hatches, and all of those which arguably require more coding than my simple little table did.
But meh, piston tables do exist to fill the gap until they implement real working decorations, and I don't have to bother with the ulgy fake piston tables myself.
EDIT: Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this? My table is occupying slot 143 with no issue. Does modloader change something to get around said lock? I am using ModLoader but the end result in terms of coding time is no different.
oh wait you already posted, can you please set this for download so i dont have to wait for tables, those look cool
Your right. Why be creative and make a table that functions and is original, when you can just use the same uncreative table block that everyone would use. Why be creative, when you can not be.
When did we prove that? Somebody showed they could make it in 10 minutes, without actually making a texture for it, and without implementing the quirks of its geometry properly, or making it connect with other table blocks.
In contrast, depending on how the framework is set up, allowing pressure plates to be placed on fences is a really, really quick change that probably took a moment to do.
He was requested to do it.
Less than 4 minutes later, he has already added it.
1) It took insanity less then 10 minutes to do it, but never gave the exact time frame. Heck, even I, who only done little modding before (making bone tools and armor), was able to make a table block in less then 5 minutes.
2) Why does the table block need a new skin? Jeb didn't give HIS version of the table a new skin, and we have multiple types of stairs that don't have new skins (well, other then a smoothstone slab). Point is, it doesn't NEED a new skin and it doesn't TAKE that log to make a new block. seriously, it doesn't take more then 5 minutes, 10 minutes at most if you want to make it fancy, to make a new block. If modders (who don't even have access to the source code and has to jump through hoops) can do it that fast, then Jeb can do it even faster since he has the source.
And think of this in context. If someone requests a quick change like that in a conversation, are you going to make the quick change, or go and do a length project to implement and skin an entirely new block?
Also, in the chat log, the person doesn't even suggest a REAL table block so this point is moot. He suggest the work-around table.
It wasn't
"Person: Hey jeb, been trying to contact you or notch. May I ask when are we getting tables.
Jeb: Sure, I seen a plug-in around that makes it so one can put a pressure plate ontop of a fencepost for a table. Would that work?
Person: Sure!"
It was
"Person: Hey, an idea for tables, can we get a fencepost with pressureplates
Jeb: sure
Person: Cool"
The conversation between Jeb and Kris didn't even mention a "real" table block.
There is no: Would Jeb choose between to do a quick change or a length project; Since the conversation between the two was never about a "real" table block but about a guy suggesting for Jeb to allow Pressureplates on top of Fenceposts for table.
Your right. Why be creative and make a table that functions and is original, when you can just use the same uncreative table block that everyone would use. Why be creative, when you can not be.
Pressure plate + fencepost is not a real table. It doesn't fuction like a table. Since the pressureplat is a non-solid block, the whole thing acts like a "fence post". Stopping any movement and block placement directly above it. So everything you put on the table won't work and will in effect be floating. It doesn't work like a table, so why call it like a table.
Pressure plate + fencepost is not a real table. It doesn't fuction like a table. Since the pressureplat is a non-solid block, the whole thing acts like a "fence post". Stopping any movement and block placement directly above it. So everything you put on the table won't work and will in effect be floating. It doesn't work like a table, so why call it like a table.
Did my post say anything about pressure plate on a fence tables? As i said before, there are alot of good table designs, you just have to be creative. Very simple.
Why would we have a specific table just so we could place a cake on it?
oh wait you already posted, can you please set this for download so i dont have to wait for tables, those look cool
They're not really usable at the moment, I would need to isolate them from from a separate project I made them in. I guess if people really wanted them I could quickly isolate them but I have better things to do and 1.8's right around the corner.
I don't fully agree that imagination should be the solution to every decorative block. I'd like to see someone rig up a convincing bookshelf without the bookshelf block available, and likewise, I'd like a table that
can hold items on it
does not put a pit in the floor
And likewise, I'd like to see a couch with a nice, wool bottom. Abuse of half-height wood blocks would actually allow it to look convincing, but that'd be a bad hack. Maybe that's just me, though, but I'm still very convinced that one could create a generic "furniture" block that could handle all situations... I think renderable tile entities were added just for this purpose.
We also don't have the real timeframe for that change. All we know i that after 4 minutes, he already had it done. He didn't do it, and say "I have finished". He told the person who was continuing to talk about it "I already did it".
and regardless of the actual time investment, there is still a significant difference in how much work it fellls like you are doing. There is a world of difference between "make this quick change to allow something"and "implement a new block".
Esp. since you are all overlooking the design time. Sure, you can go "I made this table in less than ten minutes", but you probably already knew what you wanted the table to do. Should it have 4 legs, or a central pillar? How will it work when placed near other tables? What skin should it have? Should I allow multiple skins? What crafting recipe? Does that make sense with other materials? Are there any special features this block needs, like the ability to place objects on top of it, but not the sides? Is there a way I can do this to make it more multi-purpose? What about placemenet restraints? Can you only place a table on solid ground? Should it remain it you remove the ground? Can it be placed on a fence? Is it flammable? What if we also want chairs? how would we design tables and chairs so they make sense together?
I mean, sure, you could throw something together without thinking about it, but it is a poor way to built a game. Are the choices you made for that table the best choices?
The OP was acting offended that they would add this into minecraft in the first place. The feature was added at the direct request of a player. It is better to have these tables, which despite their functional shortcomings, aesthetically look like a table, than no tables at all. It is not reasonable to expect Jeb to say "Oh, instead of making this quick change, let me do the full development for proper tables right now", and it is better for everyone for him to say "yes" than "no". So there should not be complains that we were given this feature now. I do agree that it would be better to have functional tables later, but that is not the goal of the development right now.
We also don't have the real timeframe for that change. All we know i that after 4 minutes, he already had it done. He didn't do it, and say "I have finished". He told the person who was continuing to talk about it "I already did it".
and regardless of the actual time investment, there is still a significant difference in how much work it fellls like you are doing. There is a world of difference between "make this quick change to allow something"and "implement a new block".
Esp. since you are all overlooking the design time. Sure, you can go "I made this table in less than ten minutes", but you probably already knew what you wanted the table to do. Should it have 4 legs, or a central pillar? How will it work when placed near other tables? What skin should it have? Should I allow multiple skins? What crafting recipe? Does that make sense with other materials? Are there any special features this block needs, like the ability to place objects on top of it, but not the sides? Is there a way I can do this to make it more multi-purpose? What about placemenet restraints? Can you only place a table on solid ground? Should it remain it you remove the ground? Can it be placed on a fence? Is it flammable? What if we also want chairs? how would we design tables and chairs so they make sense together?
I mean, sure, you could throw something together without thinking about it, but it is a poor way to built a game. Are the choices you made for that table the best choices?
The OP was acting offended that they would add this into minecraft in the first place. The feature was added at the direct request of a player. It is better to have these tables, which despite their functional shortcomings, aesthetically look like a table, than no tables at all. It is not reasonable to expect Jeb to say "Oh, instead of making this quick change, let me do the full development for proper tables right now", and it is better for everyone for him to say "yes" than "no". So there should not be complains that we were given this feature now. I do agree that it would be better to have functional tables later, but that is not the goal of the development right now.
Only good point you have there is the four leg or one leg. Other then that, All other design choices are faily simple and can make.
You're giving all this deep thought to something that doesn't need it.
Do you think Notch really went through all that when creating things like dirt or bookshelves? Other then the crafting recipy, it's fairly easy.
` Texture? - Log, Wooden planks, Bricks.
` Specail features? - Not needed at first if people want just a "decoration". Can come later like many other features that was put in first but then came later. For now just cake being placeable on it is enough.
` Putting stuff on the sides? Torches make sense, I can put torches on the sides. putting a block next to the table-simple since thats what is normal. Putting redstone wire, of course it would hang over the side just like real wire. The only thing that doesn't really make sense are signs.
`What if we also want chairs? - We been asking for chairs for a long time now. they are already putting in a "table" with out chairs so why owuld the think about putting in a real "table" with chairs.
` Should it remain it you remove the ground? - no
` Can you only place a table on solid ground? - yes
there, I answered most of your questions that will make most of the voters up who voted for a real table block in 5 minutes.
Seriously, you are saying "oh it will take all this work and time" when they are only giving htemselves MORE work and MORE time by doing a workaround.
If they just did a real table block then the total time would of been Just that real table block.
If they do a workaround then a real table block later then the total time would of been time worked on the workaround and time it would take to work on the real table block.
So your arguement that it would just take longer to put in a real table block in is moot since by adding in a workaround, they are just adding MORE time onto a the time on the work for a table.
Only good point you have there is the four leg or one leg. Other then that, All other design choices are faily simple and can make.
You're giving all this deep thought to something that doesn't need it.
Do you think Notch really went through all that when creating things like dirt or bookshelves? Other then the crafting recipy, it's fairly easy.
` Texture? - Log, Wooden planks, Bricks.
` Specail features? - Not needed at first if people want just a "decoration". Can come later like many other features that was put in first but then came later. For now just cake being placeable on it is enough.
` Putting stuff on the sides? Torches make sense, I can put torches on the sides. putting a block next to the table-simple since thats what is normal. Putting redstone wire, of course it would hang over the side just like real wire. The only thing that doesn't really make sense are signs.
`What if we also want chairs? - We been asking for chairs for a long time now. they are already putting in a "table" with out chairs so why owuld the think about putting in a real "table" with chairs.
` Should it remain it you remove the ground? - no
` Can you only place a table on solid ground? - yes
there, I answered most of your questions that will make most of the voters up who voted for a real table block in 5 minutes.
Seriously, you are saying "oh it will take all this work and time" when they are only giving htemselves MORE work and MORE time by doing a workaround.
If they just did a real table block then the total time would of been Just that real table block.
If they do a workaround then a real table block later then the total time would of been time worked on the workaround and time it would take to work on the real table block.
So your arguement that it would just take longer to put in a real table block in is moot since by adding in a workaround, they are just adding MORE time onto a the time on the work for a table.
The time added would be about four minutes anyways. Would those four extra minutes to the timetable make such a huge difference? Maybe Jens/Jeb and Notch have plans on how to make a table and what it would entail but it wouldn't really fit in the "Adventure Update." Maybe they have something big planned around it.
The way it is now, there is only four minutes extra work put into it and you get aesthetically functional tables that don't require floors for two story houses to be 3 blocks thick if you want tables anywhere but the first floor.
Only good point you have there is the four leg or one leg. Other then that, All other design choices are faily simple and can make.
You're giving all this deep thought to something that doesn't need it.
Do you think Notch really went through all that when creating things like dirt or bookshelves? Other then the crafting recipy, it's fairly easy.
` Texture? - Log, Wooden planks, Bricks.
` Specail features? - Not needed at first if people want just a "decoration". Can come later like many other features that was put in first but then came later. For now just cake being placeable on it is enough.
` Putting stuff on the sides? Torches make sense, I can put torches on the sides. putting a block next to the table-simple since thats what is normal. Putting redstone wire, of course it would hang over the side just like real wire. The only thing that doesn't really make sense are signs.
`What if we also want chairs? - We been asking for chairs for a long time now. they are already putting in a "table" with out chairs so why owuld the think about putting in a real "table" with chairs.
` Should it remain it you remove the ground? - no
` Can you only place a table on solid ground? - yes
there, I answered most of your questions that will make most of the voters up who voted for a real table block in 5 minutes.
Seriously, you are saying "oh it will take all this work and time" when they are only giving htemselves MORE work and MORE time by doing a workaround.
If they just did a real table block then the total time would of been Just that real table block.
If they do a workaround then a real table block later then the total time would of been time worked on the workaround and time it would take to work on the real table block.
So your arguement that it would just take longer to put in a real table block in is moot since by adding in a workaround, they are just adding MORE time onto a the time on the work for a table.
Frankly, I disagree with most of the design decisions you made for that table.
log, wooden planks, and bricks? Sure, planks are obvious, but a brick table? smoothstone makes more sense. How about the legs? are they always wood?
Placing torches on the side? That is likely to be a torch levitating in midair. A sign might make sense, as it could stretch from leg to leg, assuming a 4-legged approach. Redstone shouldn't attach to the side, since it is a power, not a dangling wire.
Dirt blocks were added first thing, at the stage where 99% of what you are doing is experimenting. Bookcases were added in creative, as purely decorative additions. They were added to survival as soon as he added paper, and hence had a resource to tie it to. Even then, it was still a purely decorative cube. A table is not a cube. Its geometry alone raises some questions to consider.
ALL they are doing by adding the workaround is opening up creative freedom. And that is somehow being demonized in this thread. It is ridiculous. I don't see how allowing a block to be placed on another block is equivalent to designing an entirely new block in your eyes.
Look at the spider jockey. Notch had just added code to have entities ride entities, primarily for minecarts. He then added in the little bit of code to allow a spider to spawn with a skeleton riding it. Viola, a new and feared enemy without having to make an entirely new mob. Same thing here. Allow a pressure plate to be put on a fence, and viola, an aesthetic table. They already had code to allow certain blocks to be placed on the fence. It currently allowed fences and torches, he just added pressure plates to that list. This is a TRIVIAL change, and it is being equated to developing a block. You are equating the effort a modder must put into the game with the effort the designer must put in.
If they are going to give us a workaround, I would honestly perfer a decent workaround. I can live with a workaround, but there's some serious flaws with the current workaround.
Yeah... not cutting it. Not cutting it at all.
Likewise, it took me under ten minutes to implement this:
Assuming I have ten minutes to devote to adding a nice feature that I want, route two would obviously be my best choice. It's not very fancy, but I can put a block on the table and have it so it doesn't float midair. Adding logic to make it so that the posts are only at the corner would probably take an additional five minutes, maybe ten if I'm distracted or tired, like I am right now. Remember that many features in MC were features added on a whim. Tall grass, hatches, and all of those which arguably require more coding than my simple little table did.
But meh, piston tables do exist to fill the gap until they implement real working decorations, and I don't have to bother with the ulgy fake piston tables myself.
EDIT: Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this? My table is occupying slot 143 with no issue. Does modloader change something to get around said lock? I am using ModLoader but the end result in terms of coding time is no different.
could you post this so we can have a better look at what you did (and because that is awesome)
Well I'm back from my vacation and I've seen this pressure plate table was surprisingly implemented. So I feel like I had to bump this thread with a picture showing how flawed the table was.
What a disappointment notch, cutting corners made me an unsatisfied customer.
Frankly, I disagree with most of the design decisions you made for that table.
log, wooden planks, and bricks? Sure, planks are obvious, but a brick table? smoothstone makes more sense. How about the legs? are they always wood?
Placing torches on the side? That is likely to be a torch levitating in midair. A sign might make sense, as it could stretch from leg to leg, assuming a 4-legged approach. Redstone shouldn't attach to the side, since it is a power, not a dangling wire.
Dirt blocks were added first thing, at the stage where 99% of what you are doing is experimenting. Bookcases were added in creative, as purely decorative additions. They were added to survival as soon as he added paper, and hence had a resource to tie it to. Even then, it was still a purely decorative cube. A table is not a cube. Its geometry alone raises some questions to consider.
ALL they are doing by adding the workaround is opening up creative freedom. And that is somehow being demonized in this thread. It is ridiculous. I don't see how allowing a block to be placed on another block is equivalent to designing an entirely new block in your eyes.
Look at the spider jockey. Notch had just added code to have entities ride entities, primarily for minecarts. He then added in the little bit of code to allow a spider to spawn with a skeleton riding it. Viola, a new and feared enemy without having to make an entirely new mob. Same thing here. Allow a pressure plate to be put on a fence, and viola, an aesthetic table. They already had code to allow certain blocks to be placed on the fence. It currently allowed fences and torches, he just added pressure plates to that list. This is a TRIVIAL change, and it is being equated to developing a block. You are equating the effort a modder must put into the game with the effort the designer must put in.
oh wait you already posted, can you please set this for download so i dont have to wait for tables, those look cool
1) It took insanity less then 10 minutes to do it, but never gave the exact time frame. Heck, even I, who only done little modding before (making bone tools and armor), was able to make a table block in less then 5 minutes.
2) Why does the table block need a new skin? Jeb didn't give HIS version of the table a new skin, and we have multiple types of stairs that don't have new skins (well, other then a smoothstone slab). Point is, it doesn't NEED a new skin and it doesn't TAKE that log to make a new block. seriously, it doesn't take more then 5 minutes, 10 minutes at most if you want to make it fancy, to make a new block. If modders (who don't even have access to the source code and has to jump through hoops) can do it that fast, then Jeb can do it even faster since he has the source.
Also, in the chat log, the person doesn't even suggest a REAL table block so this point is moot. He suggest the work-around table.
It wasn't
"Person: Hey jeb, been trying to contact you or notch. May I ask when are we getting tables.
Jeb: Sure, I seen a plug-in around that makes it so one can put a pressure plate ontop of a fencepost for a table. Would that work?
Person: Sure!"
It was
"Person: Hey, an idea for tables, can we get a fencepost with pressureplates
Jeb: sure
Person: Cool"
The conversation between Jeb and Kris didn't even mention a "real" table block.
There is no: Would Jeb choose between to do a quick change or a length project; Since the conversation between the two was never about a "real" table block but about a guy suggesting for Jeb to allow Pressureplates on top of Fenceposts for table.
Pressure plate + fencepost is not a real table. It doesn't fuction like a table. Since the pressureplat is a non-solid block, the whole thing acts like a "fence post". Stopping any movement and block placement directly above it. So everything you put on the table won't work and will in effect be floating. It doesn't work like a table, so why call it like a table.
Did my post say anything about pressure plate on a fence tables? As i said before, there are alot of good table designs, you just have to be creative. Very simple.
Why would we have a specific table just so we could place a cake on it?
I don't fully agree that imagination should be the solution to every decorative block. I'd like to see someone rig up a convincing bookshelf without the bookshelf block available, and likewise, I'd like a table that
"sometimes, wizards are so awesome, it hurts"
"Uh oh, everything in 1.8 has been complained about already..."
"Oh wait, no one has bothered to complain about the tables yet!"
(posts thread)
and regardless of the actual time investment, there is still a significant difference in how much work it fellls like you are doing. There is a world of difference between "make this quick change to allow something"and "implement a new block".
Esp. since you are all overlooking the design time. Sure, you can go "I made this table in less than ten minutes", but you probably already knew what you wanted the table to do. Should it have 4 legs, or a central pillar? How will it work when placed near other tables? What skin should it have? Should I allow multiple skins? What crafting recipe? Does that make sense with other materials? Are there any special features this block needs, like the ability to place objects on top of it, but not the sides? Is there a way I can do this to make it more multi-purpose? What about placemenet restraints? Can you only place a table on solid ground? Should it remain it you remove the ground? Can it be placed on a fence? Is it flammable? What if we also want chairs? how would we design tables and chairs so they make sense together?
I mean, sure, you could throw something together without thinking about it, but it is a poor way to built a game. Are the choices you made for that table the best choices?
The OP was acting offended that they would add this into minecraft in the first place. The feature was added at the direct request of a player. It is better to have these tables, which despite their functional shortcomings, aesthetically look like a table, than no tables at all. It is not reasonable to expect Jeb to say "Oh, instead of making this quick change, let me do the full development for proper tables right now", and it is better for everyone for him to say "yes" than "no". So there should not be complains that we were given this feature now. I do agree that it would be better to have functional tables later, but that is not the goal of the development right now.
Only good point you have there is the four leg or one leg. Other then that, All other design choices are faily simple and can make.
You're giving all this deep thought to something that doesn't need it.
Do you think Notch really went through all that when creating things like dirt or bookshelves? Other then the crafting recipy, it's fairly easy.
` Texture? - Log, Wooden planks, Bricks.
` Specail features? - Not needed at first if people want just a "decoration". Can come later like many other features that was put in first but then came later. For now just cake being placeable on it is enough.
` Putting stuff on the sides? Torches make sense, I can put torches on the sides. putting a block next to the table-simple since thats what is normal. Putting redstone wire, of course it would hang over the side just like real wire. The only thing that doesn't really make sense are signs.
`What if we also want chairs? - We been asking for chairs for a long time now. they are already putting in a "table" with out chairs so why owuld the think about putting in a real "table" with chairs.
` Should it remain it you remove the ground? - no
` Can you only place a table on solid ground? - yes
there, I answered most of your questions that will make most of the voters up who voted for a real table block in 5 minutes.
Seriously, you are saying "oh it will take all this work and time" when they are only giving htemselves MORE work and MORE time by doing a workaround.
If they just did a real table block then the total time would of been Just that real table block.
If they do a workaround then a real table block later then the total time would of been time worked on the workaround and time it would take to work on the real table block.
So your arguement that it would just take longer to put in a real table block in is moot since by adding in a workaround, they are just adding MORE time onto a the time on the work for a table.
The time added would be about four minutes anyways. Would those four extra minutes to the timetable make such a huge difference? Maybe Jens/Jeb and Notch have plans on how to make a table and what it would entail but it wouldn't really fit in the "Adventure Update." Maybe they have something big planned around it.
The way it is now, there is only four minutes extra work put into it and you get aesthetically functional tables that don't require floors for two story houses to be 3 blocks thick if you want tables anywhere but the first floor.
Frankly, I disagree with most of the design decisions you made for that table.
log, wooden planks, and bricks? Sure, planks are obvious, but a brick table? smoothstone makes more sense. How about the legs? are they always wood?
Placing torches on the side? That is likely to be a torch levitating in midair. A sign might make sense, as it could stretch from leg to leg, assuming a 4-legged approach. Redstone shouldn't attach to the side, since it is a power, not a dangling wire.
Dirt blocks were added first thing, at the stage where 99% of what you are doing is experimenting. Bookcases were added in creative, as purely decorative additions. They were added to survival as soon as he added paper, and hence had a resource to tie it to. Even then, it was still a purely decorative cube. A table is not a cube. Its geometry alone raises some questions to consider.
ALL they are doing by adding the workaround is opening up creative freedom. And that is somehow being demonized in this thread. It is ridiculous. I don't see how allowing a block to be placed on another block is equivalent to designing an entirely new block in your eyes.
Look at the spider jockey. Notch had just added code to have entities ride entities, primarily for minecarts. He then added in the little bit of code to allow a spider to spawn with a skeleton riding it. Viola, a new and feared enemy without having to make an entirely new mob. Same thing here. Allow a pressure plate to be put on a fence, and viola, an aesthetic table. They already had code to allow certain blocks to be placed on the fence. It currently allowed fences and torches, he just added pressure plates to that list. This is a TRIVIAL change, and it is being equated to developing a block. You are equating the effort a modder must put into the game with the effort the designer must put in.
Actually, I'd love some new 'home furnishing' blocks so I'd have things to put together inside my constructed buildings.
could you post this so we can have a better look at what you did (and because that is awesome)
What a disappointment notch, cutting corners made me an unsatisfied customer.
you write too much :blink.gif:
you are notch liar !