Updating my server to the pre-release made it stable so I crafted a new iron sword and went out mob hunting, by morning my sword was almost broken and I had not gotten a single random unique drop... I can't see how this could ever be considered unbalanced. Seriously play with a new feature a few days before crying about it...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Updating my server to the pre-release made it stable so I crafted a new iron sword and went out mob hunting, by morning my sword was almost broken and I had not gotten a single random unique drop... I can't see how this could ever be considered unbalanced. Seriously play with a new feature a few days before crying about it...
Drop chainmail and leather -- the worse the armor the more chance some poor soul is in a position to become a zombie in the first place :smile.gif: Make the armor damaged -- they are dead after all.
To most MC players End-game equipment is all tools made of diamond and full iron armor, because that is how you would accomplish all those " end-game " challenge you wrote there.
I think you misunderstand - those are mid-game challenges. Full iron armor is mid-game equipment. In fact, if you bee-line to it, it can be available pretty early on, but in general it's a mid-game thing. Now admittedly, you could probably beat the Ender-Dragon with just iron armor, if you know how to do it. And it's not like you really need any armor to complete huge building projects. But that doesn't mean that iron armor is the apex of the game.
-farmable iron ( which is considered overpowered by some players )
- New players can get end-game gear in just 2 - 5 nights.
[/spoiler]
It's not that big of a deal, especially since iron rarity was buffed to ridiculous levels. Besides, a veteran player can somewhat easily get a full suit of diamond armor in their first 3 days.
It's not that big of a deal, especially since iron rarity was buffed to ridiculous levels. Besides, a veteran player can somewhat easily get a full suit of diamond armor in their first 3 days.
Blazes are a big deal, and without atleast a diamond sword and good armor you would be dead before you even get to 6 blaze rods.
Sir, not all players are you. But not all players are me. (And not all players are Adam West)
Personally? I have a 14x14x5 box built in the nether around a blaze spawner. It is open, and obstacle-less. My regular farming method is to run in with a lightly enchanted iron sword and carve the blazes down 5-6 at a time without taking damage. Why do I use Iron? Because its critical hit practice. I have to time the strikes to get all criticals if I want to bring them down faster. Of course you could use a diamond sword and just two hit everything; then you can kill about three before then can even shoot back if you click quickly enough.
Hell, sometimes I run it without armor just for the added sense of, "I better not step into their firing pattern that I've seen several hundred times this time!"
Going through four or five swords; and emerging from the box with two and a half to three stacks of blaze rods is trivial in every aspect of the word minus time investment. I stand by my position that anyone who thinks this game as of 1.1 is difficult at all is delusional, and your grade of equipment does not affect the player's ability to quite simply avoid damage completely.
I'd say tedious to gather due to several factors. In a new world you can quite easily quickly gather up a bunch of wood; and tunnel into the ground at nightfall.
Make a table, grab some stone, make a furnace and pick; on your way to bedrock you'll more then likely be able to grab enough iron for a pick.
Save that pick for diamonds; and use the myrad of cobble gathered on the way down for stone tools. Bake the iron into ingots along the way; or when you hit the bottom. Didn't run into coal? Take some of the extra wood and make charcoal while you begin the branch mine.
Within no more then three to four day / night cycles you should have enough diamonds for an armor set. Food could be an issue if you didn't come across some mushrooms in a cave on the way down; so perhaps spend part of your first surface day slaughtering all animals you find for rations.
In theory if you bring some saplings with you; you will never actually have to return to the surface again. Dwarf mode engage!
Balance issues versus who and what? Please enlighten me. Its been balance this, overpowered that, nerf this, no nerf that ever since the hunger feature was implemented. There is no balance in minecraft there is no scale. A game is a game and you play within the rules of said game. If the rules change, like now being able to "farm" iron then you simply have to find a new (read different) way to play.
*personal balance* There is no balance "issue" everybody can do the same thing you do, heck it will take a few days before 10 people made full in depth youtube tutorials about how to farm and do things so you can mimic it all you want. In ssp, in smp, everywere. There is no balance issue.
*Iron is overpowered* how is it overpowered? what is overpowered about it? that it does more damage then your fists? yeah thats pretty logical. That is has quite a high durability? yeah pretty much why people use iron items. I don't understand how one can make such a big deal out of having a tad more resources and it "possibly" being infinite now.
*Iron farms* So you gonna make a mobfarm that drops iron swords and ingots and all the other bonus drops. Well great now you only have to wait for your iron instead of actively mining it so you stop play the game to get iron and then you can do what exactly? It's a different way to get iron I don't see the "severe balance issue" here.
This thread has been up for more than 4 hours, it has 5 pages full of comments and opinions and 100+ users have casted their votes in the poll... so yeah... this thread is pretty much a big deal
No it is not a big deal, it is flamebait. These topics serve no purpose since there is no such thing as balance/overpoweredness/underpoweredness in a creative sandbox building game with mobs and potions.
Go look at Simcity or Transport Tycoon. There are certain things in those games that are more profitable then others, and could be considered "OP" but why would you it's the way these games are built and thats that. Just deal with it and stop obsessing over valueless words like "balance" and "overpowered"
Balance issues versus who and what? Please enlighten me. Its been balance this, overpowered that, nerf this, no nerf that ever since the hunger feature was implemented. There is no balance in minecraft there is no scale. A game is a game and you play within the rules of said game. If the rules change, like now being able to "farm" iron then you simply have to find a new (read different) way to play.
*personal balance* There is no balance "issue" everybody can do the same thing you do, heck it will take a few days before 10 people made full in depth youtube tutorials about how to farm and do things so you can mimic it all you want. In ssp, in smp, everywere. There is no balance issue.
*Iron is overpowered* how is it overpowered? what is overpowered about it? that it does more damage then your fists? yeah thats pretty logical. That is has quite a high durability? yeah pretty much why people use iron items. I don't understand how one can make such a big deal out of having a tad more resources and it "possibly" being infinite now.
*Iron farms* So you gonna make a mobfarm that drops iron swords and ingots and all the other bonus drops. Well great now you only have to wait for your iron instead of actively mining it so you stop play the game to get iron and then you can do what exactly? It's a different way to get iron I don't see the "severe balance issue" here.
No it is not a big deal, it is flamebait. These topics serve no purpose since there is no such thing as balance/overpoweredness/underpoweredness in a creative sandbox building game with mobs and potions.
Go look at Simcity or Transport Tycoon. There are certain things in those games that are more profitable then others, and could be considered "OP" but why would you it's the way these games are built and thats that. Just deal with it and stop obsessing over valueless words like "balance" and "overpowered"
Sorry, but I´ve not complained a single time in the entire thread.
In the thread I posted some information and then made a poll so people can give their opinions.
If this was a complain thread this thread would be really different, and it is not flame-bait, no one is flaming each other, everyone is sharing opinions politely.
Read the entire thread before rushing such an incomplete and nonsense opinion.
All those stuff like " Nerf this, nerf that " is the people in the responses in the thread, however i´ve never said it should be nerfed.
This thread entire purpose is to get to a general conclusion of what should be done or if it should stay this way.
Balance issues versus who and what? Please enlighten me. Its been balance this, overpowered that, nerf this, no nerf that ever since the hunger feature was implemented. There is no balance in minecraft there is no scale. A game is a game and you play within the rules of said game. If the rules change, like now being able to "farm" iron then you simply have to find a new (read different) way to play.
*personal balance* There is no balance "issue" everybody can do the same thing you do, heck it will take a few days before 10 people made full in depth youtube tutorials about how to farm and do things so you can mimic it all you want. In ssp, in smp, everywere. There is no balance issue.
*Iron is overpowered* how is it overpowered? what is overpowered about it? that it does more damage then your fists? yeah thats pretty logical. That is has quite a high durability? yeah pretty much why people use iron items. I don't understand how one can make such a big deal out of having a tad more resources and it "possibly" being infinite now.
*Iron farms* So you gonna make a mobfarm that drops iron swords and ingots and all the other bonus drops. Well great now you only have to wait for your iron instead of actively mining it so you stop play the game to get iron and then you can do what exactly? It's a different way to get iron I don't see the "severe balance issue" here.
No it is not a big deal, it is flamebait. These topics serve no purpose since there is no such thing as balance/overpoweredness/underpoweredness in a creative sandbox building game with mobs and potions.
Go look at Simcity or Transport Tycoon. There are certain things in those games that are more profitable then others, and could be considered "OP" but why would you it's the way these games are built and thats that. Just deal with it and stop obsessing over valueless words like "balance" and "overpowered"
*collapsed due to length*
I miss the days when:
"Oh hey something changed... lets see how I can incorporate this new [thing] into my existing plans and adapt from there."
Instead we have:
"How dare this not appease my entitled sense of what this game should be?! Sandbox? More like casual-box.
[thing] is overpowered! [other_thing] is pointless! Buzz word! Buzz word! Bend to my will because I demand it!"
Sorry, but I´ve not complained a single time in the entire thread.
In the thread I posted some information and then made a poll so people can give their opinions.
If this was a complain thread this thread would be really different, and it is not flame-bait, no one is flaming each other, everyone is sharing opinions politely.
Read the entire thread before rushing such an incomplete and nonsense opinion.
All those stuff like " Nerf this, nerf that " is the people in the responses in the thread, however i´ve never said it should be nerfed.
This thread entire purpose is to get to a general conclusion of what should be done or if it should stay this way.
*collapsed due to length*
*exasperated_sigh* Yes... yes you're right. I let my building frustration out for a moment and I apologize. But all this complaining does get on ones nerves after a while.
Sorry, but I´ve not complained a single time in the entire thread.
Don't like doing this but, kinda have to now:
I never said you did.
In the thread I posted some information and then made a poll so people can give their opinions.
If this was a complain thread this thread would be really different, and it is not flame-bait, no one is flaming each other, everyone is sharing opinions politely.
It doesn't really matter if people are discussing a pointless topic politely or impolitely it's equally pointless.
What it does is continue the notion that there is something "fundamentally" wrong with the game (the choice words of "balance" and "overpowered" tend to do that). Even if people aren't flaming here the anger they restrain here they will pour out in the closest whine thread. Last bit is quite a bit of speculation on my part so keep that in mind.
From a standpoint of someone who thinks these forums are the most godawefull, flame and whine inhabited, poorly modded *bleepholes* on the internet, this topic held up rather well.
That said since Bergensten got promoted to lead dev every update or even snapshot made sense, had purpose and actually did what they advertised. So maybe I'm biased towards people keeping promises and functioning play but thats just me. Having constructive pointless topics growing up now, while during the late Persson era people were to busy flaming eachother while Persson was actually *bleeping* over everybody tends to get me wound up a bit.
The drop rates are low enough to trivialize any mob hunting for the sole purpose of collecting the rare drops. Simply farming them by mining is tremendously more efficient. It's just a little something extra you get if you're lucky. Big deal? Nah. It's a nice detail in my opinion.
I agree.
I really do think all they do is make the game easier though, this AI doesn't really add to the challenge enough to counter the new drops, the health regen from food, sprinting, the rest of the combat list the new player gets that doesn't account for mobs, etc. etc.
They should make ores hella rare and make drops very rare too. They still aren't rare enough imo if you're going out and killing things.
They should also decrease armor rate in chests! That's what I find ridiculous!!!!!!
Damn, piles of iron and now piles of armor, what happened to this game??
"Oh hey something changed... lets see how I can incorporate this new [thing] into my existing plans and adapt from there."
Instead we have:
"How dare this not appease my entitled sense of what this game should be?! Sandbox? More like casual-box.
[thing] is overpowered! [other_thing] is pointless! Buzz word! Buzz word! Bend to my will because I demand it!"
*huff, puff, rage*
I can agree to that.
The mobs dropping usable items does provide a different means of playing. A challenge to "never go underground" and similar challenges more reasonable to preform.
The drop rates are low enough to trivialize any mob hunting for the sole purpose of collecting the rare drops. Simply farming them by mining is tremendously more efficient. It's just a little something extra you get if you're lucky. Big deal? Nah. It's a nice detail in my opinion.
Been noticing that the drop rates are a reasonable amount. A person can easily gain more materials by mining than hunting mobs any night.
I'd just feel more comfortable with the idea that the drop items are damaged as well as the mobs benefit from the armor they drop. That's my only beef on the matter.
My opinion on the drops is that they need to be truly rare. Rare isn't once every 20 kills, rare is once every 100 kills is an iron sword. Lesser valued items would have higher chances of dropping of course. Iron ingots/stone swords could have a 1/25 drop rate and this is for a single mob. Each mob should have a different running percentages. (Also make zombies/skeletons drop leather armor instead)
There also should be limits to how much rare loot can be harvested in a period of time. After awhile it will stop the loot dropping code to prevent farming.
I had an idea concerning the End game item issue.
What if your level has an effect on what level enchantment if any level a rare tool drops. It would still be randomly levelled, but certain enchantments will only drop when you're a certain level or higher. The drop could just as likely be unenchanted, it is just possible to get higher enchantments at higher levels, and levels 0-5 don't allow enchanted item drops or the drop is very rare and would encompass a 1-5 level enchantment. I want a cap to this though. People don't deserve a level 35 enchanted tool because they killed a regular zombie, especially when most people in the position to get one probably doesn't want one.
Another thought: Disabling rare drops on hard mode?
My opinion on the drops is that they need to be truly rare. Rare isn't once every 20 kills, rare is once every 100 kills is an iron sword. Lesser valued items would have higher chances of dropping of course. Iron ingots/stone swords could have a 1/25 drop rate and this is for a single mob. Each mob should have a different running percentages. (Also make zombies/skeletons drop leather armor instead)
There also should be limits to how much rare loot can be harvested in a period of time. After awhile it will stop the loot dropping code to prevent farming.
I had an idea concerning the End game item issue.
What if your level has an effect on what level enchantment if any level a rare tool drops. It would still be randomly levelled, but certain enchantments will only drop when you're a certain level or higher. The drop could just as likely be unenchanted, it is just possible to get higher enchantments at higher levels, and levels 0-5 don't allow enchanted item drops or the drop is very rare and would encompass a 1-5 level enchantment. I want a cap to this though. People don't deserve a level 35 enchanted tool because they killed a regular zombie, especially when most people in the position to get one probably doesn't want one.
Another thought: Disabling rare drops on hard mode?
I agree with making the drops a little rarer.
The game is already top-heavy in enchanting. Either I slap level 1 enchants on things, level 10 and hope I get something good, or grind for 30 levels just to simply get silk touch.
For the most part, you either use a level 1 enchant TO KILL MOBS, or you KILL MOBS to get a high enchant, which defeats the purpose because the only high enchants that aren't paradoxical are the tool enchants.
Imagine how many pieces of random iron armor I would obtain after spending 30 levels on a iron pick after 6 tries?
Getting to level 25 6x would yield about 70 drops.
It would even be better if zombies sometimes spawned with swords and they did more damage to you. Imagine the tiers of mobs.
Tier 1: Normal Zombie
Tier 2: Normal Zombie with Stone Sword
-------- Normal Zombie with Leather Armor
Tier 3: Normal Zombie with Leather Armor and Stone Sword
-------- Normal Zombie with Partial Iron Armor with Stone(Easy/Normal)Iron(Hard) Sword
-------- Normal Zombie with Full Iron Armor
Tier 4: Dangerous Zombie with Full Iron Armor with Stone(Easy/Normal)Iron(Hard) Sword
Tier 4: Dangerous Zombie with Enchanted chestplate
I could go on...
I might make a new topic about it.
My point is instead of giving us random iron swords, enemies should spawn with weapons instead, and we have a chance of getting their weapon. And it shouldn't be iron unless it was nearly dead. It should be stone swords for zombies.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
You are a bit unlucky...
People are saying drop rates are around 1/13.
It's not that big of a deal, especially since iron rarity was buffed to ridiculous levels. Besides, a veteran player can somewhat easily get a full suit of diamond armor in their first 3 days.
Not full suit. Full suit = 24 dimonds.
Sorry for you but diamonds aren't that rare.
Sir, not all players are you. But not all players are me. (And not all players are Adam West)
Personally? I have a 14x14x5 box built in the nether around a blaze spawner. It is open, and obstacle-less. My regular farming method is to run in with a lightly enchanted iron sword and carve the blazes down 5-6 at a time without taking damage. Why do I use Iron? Because its critical hit practice. I have to time the strikes to get all criticals if I want to bring them down faster. Of course you could use a diamond sword and just two hit everything; then you can kill about three before then can even shoot back if you click quickly enough.
Hell, sometimes I run it without armor just for the added sense of, "I better not step into their firing pattern that I've seen several hundred times this time!"
Going through four or five swords; and emerging from the box with two and a half to three stacks of blaze rods is trivial in every aspect of the word minus time investment. I stand by my position that anyone who thinks this game as of 1.1 is difficult at all is delusional, and your grade of equipment does not affect the player's ability to quite simply avoid damage completely.
I agree, but I think they have a magical property that pulls you towards lava
That's why I don't have diamonds :sad.gif:
I'd say tedious to gather due to several factors. In a new world you can quite easily quickly gather up a bunch of wood; and tunnel into the ground at nightfall.
Make a table, grab some stone, make a furnace and pick; on your way to bedrock you'll more then likely be able to grab enough iron for a pick.
Save that pick for diamonds; and use the myrad of cobble gathered on the way down for stone tools. Bake the iron into ingots along the way; or when you hit the bottom. Didn't run into coal? Take some of the extra wood and make charcoal while you begin the branch mine.
Within no more then three to four day / night cycles you should have enough diamonds for an armor set. Food could be an issue if you didn't come across some mushrooms in a cave on the way down; so perhaps spend part of your first surface day slaughtering all animals you find for rations.
In theory if you bring some saplings with you; you will never actually have to return to the surface again. Dwarf mode engage!
Balance issues versus who and what? Please enlighten me. Its been balance this, overpowered that, nerf this, no nerf that ever since the hunger feature was implemented. There is no balance in minecraft there is no scale. A game is a game and you play within the rules of said game. If the rules change, like now being able to "farm" iron then you simply have to find a new (read different) way to play.
*personal balance* There is no balance "issue" everybody can do the same thing you do, heck it will take a few days before 10 people made full in depth youtube tutorials about how to farm and do things so you can mimic it all you want. In ssp, in smp, everywere. There is no balance issue.
*Iron is overpowered* how is it overpowered? what is overpowered about it? that it does more damage then your fists? yeah thats pretty logical. That is has quite a high durability? yeah pretty much why people use iron items. I don't understand how one can make such a big deal out of having a tad more resources and it "possibly" being infinite now.
*Iron farms* So you gonna make a mobfarm that drops iron swords and ingots and all the other bonus drops. Well great now you only have to wait for your iron instead of actively mining it so you stop play the game to get iron and then you can do what exactly? It's a different way to get iron I don't see the "severe balance issue" here.
No it is not a big deal, it is flamebait. These topics serve no purpose since there is no such thing as balance/overpoweredness/underpoweredness in a creative sandbox building game with mobs and potions.
Go look at Simcity or Transport Tycoon. There are certain things in those games that are more profitable then others, and could be considered "OP" but why would you it's the way these games are built and thats that. Just deal with it and stop obsessing over valueless words like "balance" and "overpowered"
Sorry, but I´ve not complained a single time in the entire thread.
In the thread I posted some information and then made a poll so people can give their opinions.
If this was a complain thread this thread would be really different, and it is not flame-bait, no one is flaming each other, everyone is sharing opinions politely.
Read the entire thread before rushing such an incomplete and nonsense opinion.
All those stuff like " Nerf this, nerf that " is the people in the responses in the thread, however i´ve never said it should be nerfed.
This thread entire purpose is to get to a general conclusion of what should be done or if it should stay this way.
I miss the days when:
"Oh hey something changed... lets see how I can incorporate this new [thing] into my existing plans and adapt from there."
Instead we have:
"How dare this not appease my entitled sense of what this game should be?! Sandbox? More like casual-box.
[thing] is overpowered! [other_thing] is pointless! Buzz word! Buzz word! Bend to my will because I demand it!"
*huff, puff, rage*
*exasperated_sigh* Yes... yes you're right. I let my building frustration out for a moment and I apologize. But all this complaining does get on ones nerves after a while.
Don't like doing this but, kinda have to now:
I never said you did.
It doesn't really matter if people are discussing a pointless topic politely or impolitely it's equally pointless.
What it does is continue the notion that there is something "fundamentally" wrong with the game (the choice words of "balance" and "overpowered" tend to do that). Even if people aren't flaming here the anger they restrain here they will pour out in the closest whine thread. Last bit is quite a bit of speculation on my part so keep that in mind.
From a standpoint of someone who thinks these forums are the most godawefull, flame and whine inhabited, poorly modded *bleepholes* on the internet, this topic held up rather well.
That said since Bergensten got promoted to lead dev every update or even snapshot made sense, had purpose and actually did what they advertised. So maybe I'm biased towards people keeping promises and functioning play but thats just me. Having constructive pointless topics growing up now, while during the late Persson era people were to busy flaming eachother while Persson was actually *bleeping* over everybody tends to get me wound up a bit.
regards
I really do think all they do is make the game easier though, this AI doesn't really add to the challenge enough to counter the new drops, the health regen from food, sprinting, the rest of the combat list the new player gets that doesn't account for mobs, etc. etc.
They should make ores hella rare and make drops very rare too. They still aren't rare enough imo if you're going out and killing things.
They should also decrease armor rate in chests! That's what I find ridiculous!!!!!!
Damn, piles of iron and now piles of armor, what happened to this game??
I can agree to that.
The mobs dropping usable items does provide a different means of playing. A challenge to "never go underground" and similar challenges more reasonable to preform.
Been noticing that the drop rates are a reasonable amount. A person can easily gain more materials by mining than hunting mobs any night.
I'd just feel more comfortable with the idea that the drop items are damaged as well as the mobs benefit from the armor they drop. That's my only beef on the matter.
There also should be limits to how much rare loot can be harvested in a period of time. After awhile it will stop the loot dropping code to prevent farming.
I had an idea concerning the End game item issue.
What if your level has an effect on what level enchantment if any level a rare tool drops. It would still be randomly levelled, but certain enchantments will only drop when you're a certain level or higher. The drop could just as likely be unenchanted, it is just possible to get higher enchantments at higher levels, and levels 0-5 don't allow enchanted item drops or the drop is very rare and would encompass a 1-5 level enchantment. I want a cap to this though. People don't deserve a level 35 enchanted tool because they killed a regular zombie, especially when most people in the position to get one probably doesn't want one.
Another thought: Disabling rare drops on hard mode?
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
I like this idea. Hard = no rare drops. Normal = half chance (1/50 to 1/100), and Easy is the current probability. (1/25-ish)
The game is already top-heavy in enchanting. Either I slap level 1 enchants on things, level 10 and hope I get something good, or grind for 30 levels just to simply get silk touch.
For the most part, you either use a level 1 enchant TO KILL MOBS, or you KILL MOBS to get a high enchant, which defeats the purpose because the only high enchants that aren't paradoxical are the tool enchants.
Imagine how many pieces of random iron armor I would obtain after spending 30 levels on a iron pick after 6 tries?
Getting to level 25 6x would yield about 70 drops.
Tier 1: Normal Zombie
Tier 2: Normal Zombie with Stone Sword
-------- Normal Zombie with Leather Armor
Tier 3: Normal Zombie with Leather Armor and Stone Sword
-------- Normal Zombie with Partial Iron Armor with Stone(Easy/Normal)Iron(Hard) Sword
-------- Normal Zombie with Full Iron Armor
Tier 4: Dangerous Zombie with Full Iron Armor with Stone(Easy/Normal)Iron(Hard) Sword
Tier 4: Dangerous Zombie with Enchanted chestplate
I could go on...
I might make a new topic about it.
My point is instead of giving us random iron swords, enemies should spawn with weapons instead, and we have a chance of getting their weapon. And it shouldn't be iron unless it was nearly dead. It should be stone swords for zombies.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539