When I first heard about the new ability of zombies to break down wooden doors, I was intrigued. It seemed a very interesting way to shake things up for players who want a challenging survival experience. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this won't do much in the way of increasing difficulty.
You see, wooden doors, above all else, are a convenience item. They are essentially obstructions that can be deployed and removed instantaneously, without having to take the time to break the block. The thing is, placing blocks can also be done instantaneously with the click of the mouse. The only thing that takes any time, then, is removing them. If the player wants to keep themselves safe from zombies at night before they get can get iron, all they have to do is drop a couple of dirt blocks in the door frame and they are completely safe for the night. What they get, in that case, is basically an ugly looking door that takes an instant to close, but when the player has to open it in the morning, they need to take the amount of time it takes to break the two dirt blocks. But still, it's safe.
All this update really does is discourages the use of wooden doors, and forces the player to simply wall themselves in for the night. No real difficulty added. Just a gimmick that can be easily worked around. I don't see why anyone would bother to even make wooden doors anymore, except between rooms on the interior, and perhaps maybe for the one-time thrill of seeing a zombie bust through their door.
Metal doors still remain useful, of course, but those all require some sort of switch to open. Wooden doors, on the other hand, have the appeal of being openable without any add-ons. Plus, metal doors don't fit with the aesthetic of a lot of homes.
Now, I still think Jeb had the right idea here. There should be something that keeps players on their toes, even when they're in the supposed safety of their own home. However, this doesn't really accomplish that. It simply forces players into using a workaround that's detrimental to the aesthetics of their construction, and inconvenient to traverse.
I think the addition of zombies breaking down doors is awesome. You can still use them for your entire house, just light up far enough outside that zombies won't spawn.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fighting ignorance and false information one post at a time.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
Zombies breaking down doors doesn't add any difficulty to the combat part of the game, but this is the first thing we've seen that provides difficulty to the building part of the game.
Now there's a way for mobs to really get the player on the defensive. If you don't find it a difficult hurdle to surpass, then at least appreciate that it adds a bit more depth to the game.
As for more difficulty tweaks, just wait. Pretty much every snapshot has contained some kind of new feature to shift the difficulty balance. I'm sure there will be more.
Do zombies only break down the doors if a player is on the other side? Or do they just destroy them on sight?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If I helped in any way, don't click that little green +, instead tell me how much you liked the post. (Only those who are incapable of earning rep the hard way have to beg for it in their signatures).
It's more difficult in that if you're playing on Hard difficulty then wooden doors just won't cut it, you really have to try and get a safe entrance to your base.
I wouldn't say this makes wooden doors USELESS, i'd just say that it makes using them as front doors to your house not nearly as smart.
I'd probably just use an iron door with a lever for my front door but use wooden ones where zombies wouldn't get to.
But a part of my wonders why I care since this only affects Hard difficulty which I don't play on . . .
well, i live in jungle, with wooden huts, tree houses and stuff like that.. should i really use iron door to replace the wooden door? i dont think so buddy.
i agree with you to some extent, but it's not a really easy workaround when i mainly use wood to build my house.
Throw a fence around your house, or use the fence gates as a door. Or light the surrounding area with torches. Or play zombie slaughterfest every night!
Zombies only break doors on hard/hardcore mode. Hard difficulty has been too easy, so Jeb is making it harder. If you're going to complain about this, you might as well complain about spiders climbing walls.
As if that would make any difference at difficulty. It doesn't - as already stated at the beginning, there are TONS of cheap workarounds. The only problem is that all of them look ugly and shouldn't be needed to be considered at all.
If you have to create a workaround, and if you can't survive without this workaround, then it's proof that it's added difficulty.
That "workaround" you're talking about is the intended solution to the problem. Just like eating is a "workaround" for hunger, so hunger isn't a problem anymore. Having a roof is a "workaround" to spiders, so that spiders aren't a problem anymore.
They're adding problems that can be solved. I don't think that's a bad thing.
If you have to create a workaround, and if you can't survive without this workaround, then it's proof that it's added difficulty.
That "workaround" you're talking about is the intended solution to the problem. Just like eating is a "workaround" for hunger, so hunger isn't a problem anymore. Having a roof is a "workaround" to spiders, so that spiders aren't a problem anymore.
They're adding problems that can be solved. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Not at all is it a bad thing.
I think it is great.
And I can't think of any asshole stuff to say right now.
Zombies can break through a wooden door, but not a pile of dirt? Somehow, I don't think this was an intended workaround.
I agree that it'd be a more realistic survival game if zombies could break blocks to get to the player, but it would really ruin the creative aspects to SSP for a lot of people (including myself). Not only are they considering the difficulty balance for survivalists, but they're also considering the value of people's creations. Remember when Endermen could steal blocks from player creations? It was pandemonium. I know I hated it.
The thing about the other "workarounds" you mentioned, though, is that they actually took more work to accomplish than what was previously necessary. With food being more than just a health item, you had much more incentive to work towards a stable food supply, and with spiders climbing walls, you had to put extra work into your construction to ensure they didn't get to you. With this update, however, all that needs to be done is to throw two dirt blocks into the frame instead of a door. That's hardly something you call more difficult.
The thing about the other "workarounds" you mentioned, though, is that they actually took more work to accomplish than what was previously necessary. With food being more than just a health item, you had much more incentive to work towards a stable food supply, and with spiders climbing walls, you had to put extra work into your construction to ensure they didn't get to you. With this update, however, all that needs to be done is to throw two dirt blocks into the frame instead of a door. That's hardly something you call more difficult.
Ah, but like I mentioned in my first post in this thread, you're not taking into account the incentive to build something that's aesthetically pleasing, which is a huge part of Minecraft's motivation. I know that I would never just stack dirt at my front door.
To use dirt as a solution to this problem creates a parallel to using dirt to solve any problem.
- "What's the point of building with bricks when you can just use dirt? It's way more common, faster to collect, and works just as well as a wall as long as you're not dumb enough to exlpode creepers."
- "Why are you building a house? Just dig a hole a few blocks down underground, cap it with a dirt block, and sit there all night."
Just like with the above two situations, this feature operates on the assumption that the player has more gusto than to just build with dirt. If such is the case (which it usually is), building a mob-proof home is suddenly much more difficult.
So, your idea of adding challenge is to annoy players and instead to allow them to use a simple but asthetic solution (a goddamn DOOR), you force them to use an even simpler but far less asthetic solution (two blocks of dirt)
I don't know WHERE you see any kind of challenge, I just see that wooden doors become basicly obsolete.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to play on hard and still use wooden doors then alter your environment so you don't have zombies breaking in. Two blocks of dirt (one would do, but whatever) is just a lazy excuse of an argument on your part. This isn't rocket science.
Except that at the start of a new world, you ARE one, regardless of what you are a few hours later.
I don't know about you, but when I start a new world, I don't run off to make a dirt house. I find wood, I make a wooden house, I put a wooden door down, and in this case, I would elevate my house and have stairs lead to the door. Zombies may have a hard time going along stairs to get to your door, which they are not actively seeking out unless you aggro'd them. Give me time and I can figure out a house design that is 100% safe from zombies, requires nothing but walking and opening a wooden door. I have one in mind, and may have to use the design once I play 1.2, so there.
Which still leaves the problem you seem to happily ignore: That you either have to deal with ugly constructions OR with a overly complicated system for something as simple as a ****ING DOOR!
I really don't know what you're thinking. There are numerous ways to combat this problem. The easiest would likely be just carrying a sword on you, but others would be altering your environment to make it safer- you know, that thing you do in Minecraft. Try placing a few dozen torches around and make a fence around your home. Neither of those possibilities are ugly or complicated in any fashion, and you can do so much more if you prefer to be creative. I'm not ignoring anything, you are.
As if that would make any difference at difficulty. It doesn't - as already stated at the beginning, there are TONS of cheap workarounds. The only problem is that all of them look ugly and shouldn't be needed to be considered at all.
If you need to do extra things to survive then it obviously does add difficulty. In any game that has zombies and some kind of buildings, they can break down doors. If you don't want them to break down doors, don't play on hard. If you don't want to play on anything less than hard, fence in an area around your house and light it up. It only takes a bit of wood and it doesn't look ugly. Don't complain about your first night, because I can build a nice house and fence it in before monsters start spawning.
You see, wooden doors, above all else, are a convenience item. They are essentially obstructions that can be deployed and removed instantaneously, without having to take the time to break the block. The thing is, placing blocks can also be done instantaneously with the click of the mouse. The only thing that takes any time, then, is removing them. If the player wants to keep themselves safe from zombies at night before they get can get iron, all they have to do is drop a couple of dirt blocks in the door frame and they are completely safe for the night. What they get, in that case, is basically an ugly looking door that takes an instant to close, but when the player has to open it in the morning, they need to take the amount of time it takes to break the two dirt blocks. But still, it's safe.
All this update really does is discourages the use of wooden doors, and forces the player to simply wall themselves in for the night. No real difficulty added. Just a gimmick that can be easily worked around. I don't see why anyone would bother to even make wooden doors anymore, except between rooms on the interior, and perhaps maybe for the one-time thrill of seeing a zombie bust through their door.
Metal doors still remain useful, of course, but those all require some sort of switch to open. Wooden doors, on the other hand, have the appeal of being openable without any add-ons. Plus, metal doors don't fit with the aesthetic of a lot of homes.
Now, I still think Jeb had the right idea here. There should be something that keeps players on their toes, even when they're in the supposed safety of their own home. However, this doesn't really accomplish that. It simply forces players into using a workaround that's detrimental to the aesthetics of their construction, and inconvenient to traverse.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
Now there's a way for mobs to really get the player on the defensive. If you don't find it a difficult hurdle to surpass, then at least appreciate that it adds a bit more depth to the game.
As for more difficulty tweaks, just wait. Pretty much every snapshot has contained some kind of new feature to shift the difficulty balance. I'm sure there will be more.
If I helped in any way, don't click that little green +, instead tell me how much you liked the post. (Only those who are incapable of earning rep the hard way have to beg for it in their signatures).
They will sometimes destroy them regardless of seeing a player, but this will hopefully be fixed in the actually 1.2 patch.
I wouldn't say this makes wooden doors USELESS, i'd just say that it makes using them as front doors to your house not nearly as smart.
I'd probably just use an iron door with a lever for my front door but use wooden ones where zombies wouldn't get to.
But a part of my wonders why I care since this only affects Hard difficulty which I don't play on . . .
From what I've heard, they destroy them on sight, but I suspect that's a bug.
Throw a fence around your house, or use the fence gates as a door. Or light the surrounding area with torches. Or play zombie slaughterfest every night!
Don't create workarounds then?
You claim that it won't affect the difficulty then suddenly whine that you'll be killed? So which is it? :T
If you have to create a workaround, and if you can't survive without this workaround, then it's proof that it's added difficulty.
That "workaround" you're talking about is the intended solution to the problem. Just like eating is a "workaround" for hunger, so hunger isn't a problem anymore. Having a roof is a "workaround" to spiders, so that spiders aren't a problem anymore.
They're adding problems that can be solved. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Not at all is it a bad thing.
I think it is great.
And I can't think of any asshole stuff to say right now.
I agree that it'd be a more realistic survival game if zombies could break blocks to get to the player, but it would really ruin the creative aspects to SSP for a lot of people (including myself). Not only are they considering the difficulty balance for survivalists, but they're also considering the value of people's creations. Remember when Endermen could steal blocks from player creations? It was pandemonium. I know I hated it.
Aha, I like the way you think. Some kind of "mob frenzy" option where mobs can dig through dirt (and maybe wood?).
I like options; options cater to everyone's needs.
Ah, but like I mentioned in my first post in this thread, you're not taking into account the incentive to build something that's aesthetically pleasing, which is a huge part of Minecraft's motivation. I know that I would never just stack dirt at my front door.
To use dirt as a solution to this problem creates a parallel to using dirt to solve any problem.
- "What's the point of building with bricks when you can just use dirt? It's way more common, faster to collect, and works just as well as a wall as long as you're not dumb enough to exlpode creepers."
- "Why are you building a house? Just dig a hole a few blocks down underground, cap it with a dirt block, and sit there all night."
Just like with the above two situations, this feature operates on the assumption that the player has more gusto than to just build with dirt. If such is the case (which it usually is), building a mob-proof home is suddenly much more difficult.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to play on hard and still use wooden doors then alter your environment so you don't have zombies breaking in. Two blocks of dirt (one would do, but whatever) is just a lazy excuse of an argument on your part. This isn't rocket science.
I don't know about you, but when I start a new world, I don't run off to make a dirt house. I find wood, I make a wooden house, I put a wooden door down, and in this case, I would elevate my house and have stairs lead to the door. Zombies may have a hard time going along stairs to get to your door, which they are not actively seeking out unless you aggro'd them. Give me time and I can figure out a house design that is 100% safe from zombies, requires nothing but walking and opening a wooden door. I have one in mind, and may have to use the design once I play 1.2, so there.
I really don't know what you're thinking. There are numerous ways to combat this problem. The easiest would likely be just carrying a sword on you, but others would be altering your environment to make it safer- you know, that thing you do in Minecraft. Try placing a few dozen torches around and make a fence around your home. Neither of those possibilities are ugly or complicated in any fashion, and you can do so much more if you prefer to be creative. I'm not ignoring anything, you are.
If you need to do extra things to survive then it obviously does add difficulty. In any game that has zombies and some kind of buildings, they can break down doors. If you don't want them to break down doors, don't play on hard. If you don't want to play on anything less than hard, fence in an area around your house and light it up. It only takes a bit of wood and it doesn't look ugly. Don't complain about your first night, because I can build a nice house and fence it in before monsters start spawning.