Actually, if you look at the intended difficulty curve for the Minecraft "story", it's a fairly balanced progression.
In comparison to the other rungs on the ladder, yes, but not in relation to the player.
The enemies within each area of the game can never improve past their original forms,
while the player can acquire a ton of upgrades that turn the game into a cakewalk.
The inclusion of varied types of the base enemies (Armored Skeleton, Fire Spider, etc) will greatly improve the difficulty scaling if their frequency/type is based on the level they spawned on, or even biome. This can be done and Notch at least planned to implement it. Hopefully Jeb will get around to it sooner rather then later.
A mode that you could ideally never win, where the goal was to get the highest score possible before succumbing to hordes of enemies that grew in size and strength over time. He considered the suggestion of a blood moon event (this was before Terraria, mind) where the game would signal that you have one day to prepare for a massive onslaught of enemies that would get past your traps and break through walls to get to you. Things like that. This would obviously have to be seperate from the story mode we have now, but would such a thing interest those of you who want a more difficult Minecraft?
Yeah, I suggested something a lot like this on the last page. It's a good idea, and I think it should be implemented.
Yeah, I suggested something a lot like this on the last page. It's a good idea, and I think it should be implemented.
I like that idea. Perhaps it wouldn't start happening until a player reached a certain point in the game (Smelting iron for example), then every few moon cycles there would be a night where more, and tougher, monster would spawn. I like the idea of them being able to break through walls as well. Anybody who didn't want to go through it could switch to peaceful for that night, or there could be a toggle for severs that didn't want to do it.
The inclusion of varied types of the base enemies (Armored Skeleton, Fire Spider, etc) will greatly improve the difficulty scaling if their frequency/type is based on the level they spawned on, or even biome. This can be done and Notch at least planned to implement it. Hopefully Jeb will get around to it sooner rather then later.
It seems like everything is designed for the player to do the following
12|
11| /How strong the player is near end game
10| /
9| /
8| /
7| /
6| /
5| /
4| /
3| /
2| /
1|/Start of game
_________________________________________________________
Gameplay time
Yet the mobs, are like this
12|
11| /How strong the player is near end game
10| /
9| /
8| /
7| /
6| /
5| /
4|-------------------------------------------------------Mob difficulty
3| /
2| /
1|/Start of game
_________________________________________________________
Gameplay time
The mobs quickly become weak and boring.
If some how we could implement the following
12|
11| /How strong the player is near end game
10| /
9| /
8|-------------------------------------------------------Strong mobs *
7| /
6| /
5| /
4|-------------------------------------------------------Normal Mobs
3| /
2| /
1|/Start of game
_________________________________________________________
Gameplay time
That way, when you start, it's difficult, but as you grow stronger there are stronger mobs to challenge you.
* Stronger mobs, not only health buffs, but perhaps things like armored skeletons, or fire spiders as suggested by one member, I say perhaps those things, along with faster zombies, and increasing their AI sense, and range at which they spot you.
Also, at something like very hard or impossible difficulties, if added
16| / Max player strength by enchantments
15|------------------------------------------------------- Super dangerous mobs *
14| /
13| /
12| /
11| /Max player strength normally.
10| /
9| /
8|------------------------------------------------------- Strong mobs *
7| /
6| /
5| /
4|------------------------------------------------------- Normal Mobs
3| /
2| /
1|/Start of game
_________________________________________________________
Gameplay time
Make enchantments worth while.
What would a Super Dangerous Mob be? They'd be fewer in numbers, but incredibly strong in terms of health, attack power, and AI. They can see you from far distances (if that applies, and have incredible path finding, or aim (if applies)
Super Dangerous Mob ideas (Nothing too insane) Crimson Enderman - Obsidian Skeleton -
Just some ideas, I wouldn't want anything just retard insane, but I could see things like the 2 I posted.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
That's a solid suggestion, Locklear, and it would help kill two birds with one stone as it would add general mob variety. Minecraft has been needing that for a while.
That's a solid suggestion, Locklear, and it would help kill two birds with one stone as it would add general mob variety. Minecraft has been needing that for a while.
Thanks, I don't want anyone to think for a minute that I mean add nuclear creepers or something dumb like that, No. Hell No.
Just, I don't see why minecraft can't have some more dynamic enemies, and more powerful ones.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Actually, if you look at the intended difficulty curve for the Minecraft "story", it's a fairly balanced progression. Starting topside in the overworld, your objective should be to find food, wood, stone and shelter. Pretty easy to do. Once you have that, it's down into the caves and mines, where the opposition is stronger and the terrain is more difficult to navigate, until you find iron. With that, you're much stronger, but you're required to go even deeper and put yourself at the mercy of more monsters, long falls and lava, until you find diamond and can mine obsidian. Once you have plenty of iron and diamond, the overworld doesn't have much in the way of a challenge, but that's when you take to the Nether.
Suddenly the instant death threat of lava is everywhere, unless you lucked out with an underground portal, and there are enemies that will actively try to destroy the natural ledges and bridges that you're traversing. Your objective is to find the blaze, which with its setting everything on fire all the time is dangerous to fight even when fully armored, but there's nothing you can do. You need those blaze rods. Neat thing is, once you do have plenty of rods, you can start brewing potions, including the fire resistance one, so once you reach your Nether objective, that place, too, becomes much less dangerous and you're free to farm it for resources in a much safer fashion.
Next stop is, of course, the overworld stronghold followed by the End, both of which can be difficult to navigate and fight in regardless of previous preparations. Until you've lit up the entire stronghold to stop enemies from spawning, and you've defeated the ender dragon which renders the End completely unthreatening, and boosting your level significantly.
So there's a pretty neat curve where, once you've overcome the challenge in each stage of the game, you should be powerful enough to take advantage of everything in it without too much hassle, but the next one will pick up the difficulty where the previous one left off. Ideally, that is. Minecraft being the sandboxiest open world game means you can do whatever, whenever. You can stay in the overworld for days upon days if you feel comfortable there. And that's what we're into, so we don't need automatically scaling difficulty to upset that.
I would actually say blazes and the Nether are the most difficult, then after that it slopes down dramatically again. Strongholds are barely a battle concern and same with the end. The dragon is difficult depending on whether you are suspended higher in the air or if you didn't destroy 2 endercrystals yet and he does the 5 armorless damage to you.
Anyways, these were my old ideas for stronger mobs:
Armored Zombies
Black Widow(I guess cave spider took that)
Sniper Skeleton(achievement anyone?)
Charged Creeper
Transparent Enderman (not invisible necessarily)
I forgot the rest, but these would spawn rarely and drop more exp.
I forgot the rest, but these would spawn rarely and drop more exp.
That doesn't really solve the issue that is being observed. These enemies need to appear more often as the player becomes more powerful, or they will be a non-issue to the player, especially later on (unless you meant for their spawn rate to scale up at some point).
I would like a Cluster Creeper. I often outrun a Creeper just enough so that it detonates right behind me, and
I take little or no damage. What if there were Creepers that separated into several smaller explosives upon detonation, so that they were more difficult to outrun?
Well, I have different beliefs on how difficulties should go. I think for a higher difficulty they should ramp up the regular mobs. The 'juggernaughts' would even spawn on easy, they would just be rarer mobs, have you seen a spiderjockey? In very hard/impossible they would be almost bosses though instead of being a mob that is a tad stronger.
16| / Max player strength by enchantments
15|------------------------------------------------------- Super dangerous mobs *
14| /
13| /
12| /
11| /Max player strength normally.
10| /
9| /
8|------------------------------------------------------- Strong mobs *
7| /
6| /
5| /
4|------------------------------------------------------- Normal Mobs
3| /
2| /
1|/Start of game
_________________________________________________________
Gameplay time
Be aware that these are just idea examples
Strong Mobs (Include AI buffs and health and damage buffs) Armored Skeletons (Wearing different dilapidated parts of armor)
Fast Zombies (They BOOK it to get you.)
Jumping Spider (Can jump further and faster)
Super Dangerous Mob ideas (Nothing too insane, even further AI refinement) Enderman Elder - Obsidian Skeleton - Very rarely spawns, shoots very fast and at twice the range
Just some ideas, I wouldn't want anything just retard insane, but I could see things like the 2 I posted.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Well, I have different beliefs on how difficulties should go. I think for a higher difficulty they should ramp up the regular mobs. The 'juggernaughts' would even spawn on easy, they would just be rarer mobs, have you seen a spiderjockey? In very hard/impossible they would be almost bosses though instead of being a mob that is a tad stronger.
Except, I hardly ever see spider jockeys, so they don't influence my game's difficulty. :/
Except, I hardly ever see spider jockeys, so they don't influence my game's difficulty. :/
I see one every second night. I mainly want to ramp up the difficulty with mobs we arleady have, it's really not hard to do. Fighting many different types of mobs at once when they are packed together, it gets very difficult. How much room you have to fight is probably the largest variable, so maybe we should keep lots of caves, ravines, etc.
I think if there were many more mobs and they were fairly powerful, I think it will do the job. The part that the juggernaughts play is to be the mystery and style(they would obviously be hard too). It's almost like the dragon is now, it's a boss but it doesn't make the game more difficult because it is 'rare'.
The part that the juggernaughts play is to be the mystery and style(they would obviously be hard too).
Okay, I understand now. Kind of like Bosses in Mook Clothing, rather than Demonic Spiders.
(Ironically, the demonic spiders in this game are more like Goddamned Bats.)
That is why I said add more difficulty opinions, so it caters to everyone :biggrin.gif:
Mmmm... Delicious variables...
FYI, loved the graphs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fighting ignorance and false information one post at a time.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
Ok first if u get those reactions when u play then turn it off easy and second if you think bout it minecraft got harder with weapons being nerfed and the new A.I.s they will get harder and i dont know anyone who would say enderman are a walk in the park to kill. or play on HARDCORE. one thing i agree with is iron is EVERYWHERE its in every mine/cave and diamonds are to easy I dont mean nerf its spawning ness I just mean there easy to find.
I'd like to see a difficulty mode where monsters would actually break into your house/ shelters and be really aggressive. Maybe sometimes call for you to actually run out of your current shelter just to get away from them, while they still chase after you.
Like a zombie mode in minecraft where everything tries to kill you no matter what?
I think there's a mod for that, but you're right, it would be awesome if it was implemented in Minecraft.
In comparison to the other rungs on the ladder, yes, but not in relation to the player.
The enemies within each area of the game can never improve past their original forms,
while the player can acquire a ton of upgrades that turn the game into a cakewalk.
Yeah, I suggested something a lot like this on the last page. It's a good idea, and I think it should be implemented.
I like that idea. Perhaps it wouldn't start happening until a player reached a certain point in the game (Smelting iron for example), then every few moon cycles there would be a night where more, and tougher, monster would spawn. I like the idea of them being able to break through walls as well. Anybody who didn't want to go through it could switch to peaceful for that night, or there could be a toggle for severs that didn't want to do it.
It seems like everything is designed for the player to do the following
Yet the mobs, are like this
The mobs quickly become weak and boring.
If some how we could implement the following
That way, when you start, it's difficult, but as you grow stronger there are stronger mobs to challenge you.
* Stronger mobs, not only health buffs, but perhaps things like armored skeletons, or fire spiders as suggested by one member, I say perhaps those things, along with faster zombies, and increasing their AI sense, and range at which they spot you.
Also, at something like very hard or impossible difficulties, if added
Make enchantments worth while.
What would a Super Dangerous Mob be? They'd be fewer in numbers, but incredibly strong in terms of health, attack power, and AI. They can see you from far distances (if that applies, and have incredible path finding, or aim (if applies)
Super Dangerous Mob ideas (Nothing too insane)
Crimson Enderman -
Obsidian Skeleton -
Just some ideas, I wouldn't want anything just retard insane, but I could see things like the 2 I posted.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Thanks, I don't want anyone to think for a minute that I mean add nuclear creepers or something dumb like that, No. Hell No.
Just, I don't see why minecraft can't have some more dynamic enemies, and more powerful ones.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Anyways, these were my old ideas for stronger mobs:
Armored Zombies
Black Widow(I guess cave spider took that)
Sniper Skeleton(achievement anyone?)
Charged Creeper
Transparent Enderman (not invisible necessarily)
I forgot the rest, but these would spawn rarely and drop more exp.
That doesn't really solve the issue that is being observed. These enemies need to appear more often as the player becomes more powerful, or they will be a non-issue to the player, especially later on (unless you meant for their spawn rate to scale up at some point).
I would like a Cluster Creeper. I often outrun a Creeper just enough so that it detonates right behind me, and
I take little or no damage. What if there were Creepers that separated into several smaller explosives upon detonation, so that they were more difficult to outrun?
Be aware that these are just idea examples
Strong Mobs (Include AI buffs and health and damage buffs)
Armored Skeletons (Wearing different dilapidated parts of armor)
Fast Zombies (They BOOK it to get you.)
Jumping Spider (Can jump further and faster)
Super Dangerous Mob ideas (Nothing too insane, even further AI refinement)
Enderman Elder -
Obsidian Skeleton - Very rarely spawns, shoots very fast and at twice the range
Just some ideas, I wouldn't want anything just retard insane, but I could see things like the 2 I posted.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Except, I hardly ever see spider jockeys, so they don't influence my game's difficulty. :/
I think if there were many more mobs and they were fairly powerful, I think it will do the job. The part that the juggernaughts play is to be the mystery and style(they would obviously be hard too). It's almost like the dragon is now, it's a boss but it doesn't make the game more difficult because it is 'rare'.
Okay, I understand now. Kind of like Bosses in Mook Clothing, rather than Demonic Spiders.
(Ironically, the demonic spiders in this game are more like Goddamned Bats.)
That is why I said add more difficulty opinions, so it caters to everyone :biggrin.gif:
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Mmmm... Delicious variables...
FYI, loved the graphs.
For the record if I correct you it's not meant maliciously, but if you whine about it I AM laughing at you.
Like a zombie mode in minecraft where everything tries to kill you no matter what?
I think there's a mod for that, but you're right, it would be awesome if it was implemented in Minecraft.