Minecraft Forums

Quote from NEREVAR117

Jeb has been head developer for... what, a month and a half? Somewhere around there. I don't view that as enough of a time-frame to judge Jeb fully. I like that he listens to the community more, but overall his implementations haven't been any better than what Notch has added. People just like to have someone to blame for all their problems.

I think the fact that he listens to the community in the first place makes him better than Notch, who almost never listened to the community, and practically ignored everything Minecraft on twitter. All through 1.8, Jeb was releasing tidbits of information about what he was doing, and occasionally answered community questions. Did Notch do this? Has Notch done this since 1.4? I really don't think so.

I understand not looking at mods to avoid getting visual aids and feature designs, but ideas are different. It's not like an idea is a reflection of anything. The community can have good ideas, and those ideas can be implemented in a Mojang way. Notch being entirely afraid to even consider user ideas was ridiculous and was dragging the game down.

I think that statement is factual. The ideas that are being added for the most part have been suggested months and months ago. There are some controversial ones that Notch really should have had more insight on. If he checked what ideas were popular and which were not on the forum, then he would have made smarter decisions on what to update.

I cannot forgive him so easily for his disregard of the community. We are the target audience, his ideas are not the only good ideas around, and his ideas aren't always the best ideas. But what other opinions does he have? He has the few people who work at Mojang and they probably don't know enough about the community that plays (with the exception of Jeb) to disagree with him and he ignores the community, so he has noone else to tell him that his idea is not in the community's best interest. It's just complete ignorance on his part and shows that he isn't fit to run Minecraft anymore.

1. Wolves, awesome.
2. Pistons, awesome awesome.
3. Jungles being only in new worlds, sucks major cocksnot.

Jeb is making better progress at a quicker pace than Notch. However, Notch made a LOT of things that made this game awesome. Even if Notch had a harder time meeting deadlines, so what? The game was great even back in Alpha, and now we just keep getting improvments. It's not like we wouldn't have gotten jungles if Notch was still lead programmer; Jeb was still there.

Quote from Rox

Okay, I'm sorry, you were making good point up until this point. We are not the "target audience" for Minecraft. We came to the game because the game appealed to us, not because the game was made for us. All Notch was doing was making the game he wanted to make. It was his game. He was his own target audience. The final call was always his, and look at where it got him. World wide recognition and a millionaire status. Not because he was trying to sculpt his game to fit some arbitrary demographic (us), but because he had enough faith in his own ideas to quit his job to make the game of his dreams. His own dreams.

You'd better recognize that the active forum members at any given time are a minority compared to the overall active player base of Minecraft, too. We are not all that matters. In fact, we're probably the vocal minority in a lot of cases. Using this forum as a representative focus test group could turn out disasterous.

I could kiss you for this. Seriously though, can I? I agree with everything here. Notch is a guy who wanted a unique game that he envisioned and we just happened to like it enough to buy it. I don't think it should be changed to our likings. I always said that if I get bored or dislike something from minecraft, that I would simply quit and not come to the forums to complain about it.

Quote from Algeroth

1) Still, they caused a major discontent in MC community and they were Notch's idea

Pistons were not Notch's idea. Notch copied them from a user made mod.

And I'm unaware of this "major discontent in MC community" over pistons :/

Quote: He was his own target audience.


This is why I don't trust him as a developer anymore. In a business situation the customer should always come first. You are supporting that Notch put himself first and then his customers. And no, we aren't a decent representation of Minecraft as a whole, but we're the ones who are able to voice our opinions for the ones who cannot. We are the politicians, we are the unions of Minecraft.

The fact of the matter, we as customers should come first. Notch shouldn't be targetting Minecraft as a game swedish guys who wear hats play who never use mods, and don't play SMP. If I take this targetted audience even further, I can see why SMP hasn't really changed at all. Since he doesn't play SMP and he's the target audience, it wouldn't be in his best interest to make a good SMP experience, because the target audience (AKA himself) doesn't play it.

I understand that Notch wanted to create Minecraft for himself. That's kind of what artists do.

But for him to **** and whine and reject obviously good ideas just makes me think he's prideful and naive.

My bad. I remember Notch had okayed it at the time, as he was being a pissy pants about adding other people's mods.

Notch and Jeb are equal.

I don't think that Jeb is better than Notch but I sure like the direction Minecraft is moving to.
If I recall right Notch didn't like people suggesting what to implement in game. He wanted the game to be more like "his" game. That really did bother me, since as we have seen that our community is full of great ideas.

The way Jeb have taken is more community friendly and I really like that. Now the game feels more like a community driven.

However Notch created the actual game so we shouldn't blame him.

Quote from Algeroth

Ok, I'll go slower, you seem to need that.

I used numbers 1 and 2 to distinguish between the two of three items someone listed as controversial ideas Jeb have during the development of Minecraft. You understand this concept, because you used it in your first reply to me in this thread. Thus, it escapes me why you can't understand that 1) was about wolves, 2) about pistons (And 3) about jungle-not-appearing-in-old-worlds).

Yes. I understand this, as I responded in concert with you.

What I don't understand is why you're saying pistons caused a major discontent among the MC community.

Quote from Ovus

What I don't understand is why you're saying pistons caused a major discontent among the MC community.

Children cried because vanilla pistons don't launch entities like the mod pistons do. Same thing that happens every time anything is added or changed in this game.

Quote from PapaSmurf

Children cried because vanilla pistons don't launch entities like the mod pistons do. Same thing that happens every time anything is added or changed in this game.

Because the players always want overpowered super-easy things.

Quote from PapaSmurf

Children cried because vanilla pistons don't launch entities like the mod pistons do. Same thing that happens every time anything is added or changed in this game.

Yeah, that was very, very brief. The overall positive consensus over pistons completely blared out the negative.

Quote from ivyn

Jens just looks at threads and picks things that he likes

Yeah I guess that's why ladders were reverted after one update, right?

I understand that you shouldn't completely trust the customer, but my marketing book reports that an important part of marketing is treating the customer with respect. "The customer is always right." Even when they are wrong they are right, and it's proper to try to please as much customers as possible so that they continue business with you.

If your only priority is to please yourself then you don't have your priorities in line. Does Notch want to sell as many copies of Minecraft as possible or does he want to make a game that's just entirely his ideas? The customer is important in this equation. If Minecraft is to remain profitable, it needs to add content that people actually want and have been asking for.

Minecraft has one of the best communities ever. You shouldn't ignore your community lest they turn on you. This is where Notch went wrong and Jeb went right. Notch isolated himself from the community, so over the last few updates, he just ended up like the lazy, and greedy person that his actions were making him out to be. It's his own fault that people feel this way about him now.

Jeb is like the anti Notch. He is everything that Notch isn't (currently). So I find it hard to swallow the fact that they are equals when Notch ignored his community and has a lot of bad/unpopular ideas, and Jeb, which IMO hasn't done anything controversial yet. Jeb was working hard on Minecraft while Notch was taking his precious vacations. He was entirely responsible for pistons, which were well received. Anything mod related he was responsible for.

If you think about how many copies of Minecraft were purchased because of things like wolves, and pistons in the game. We probably wouldn't have pistons if Jeb wasn't there to implement them. Do you think that Notch would have added pistons? I seriously doubt it.

This kind of anti mod mentality with Notch is like poison. It's harming Minecraft. The game should be based off of what the customers want and if that is a popular mod, then within reason it should be considered. It's just stupid to waste time trying to think of good ideas that have been suggested so many times over by the community. That's what Notch does...waste our time.

Notch will always be the person who created Minecraft. He should be respected for this accomplishment, but we shouldn't praise him for his work after his effort wanes and his performance starts slipping. If you still support what he is doing after he stops trying, then you fit the description of a fanboy. (It's false praise!!!)

It's the same with any artist. If their songs start to suck badly and you still treat him like he's the best artist ever, you're a fanboy. He created Minecraft, but imagine Minecraft without Jeb. If Notch was completely responsible for all the ideas of Minecraft. Tell me if that would be a better Minecraft or not.

Delivering a product the customer likes is not always the same as building a product based on customer feedback. Just because a gamer knows they enjoy a game doesn't mean they know what elements work together to give them that experience. Gamers have a tendency to really not understand game design theory and will often ask for things which ultimately make the game less balanced and fun for the majority of players. Generally game designers strive to make a game that suits their personal tastes and rely very little on feedback from their potential audience. Usually, the kind of games which are built around a target audience are licensed games and games for kids, and those are almost universally bad.

I honestly like both Jeb and Notch.
They basicly are even with minecraft.

Oh come on, Notch was good at making the textures...

I dont think Jeb is better for Minecraft than Notch, but he is doing a great job. They are both the same in my book.