Until these days I never made armor. Why? Because it was gone almost instantly unless it was the super expensive diamond.
Leather armor durability was downright a joke
Iron was meh (Its still meh if you fall in lava)
I don't think durability is really the problem most people have with armor, it's the effectiveness. I don't really care if armor lasts longer, just so long as it doesn't make you completely invulnerable to damage from mobs. The game world should still pose a threat even if the player is armored.
And quite frankly, if you fall in lava, your armor should deteriorate fairly quickly and you should still take damage. Lava as an environmental hazard should be the deadliest of deadly. It's something the player should fear and actively avoid in game, not something players should be able to swim back out of when they blindly drop into the middle of a lake of molten rock. Most games make it instant death, no matter what you're wearing.
I don't think durability is really the problem most people have with armor, it's the effectiveness. I don't really care if armor lasts longer, just so long as it doesn't make you completely invulnerable to damage from mobs. The game world should still pose a threat even if the player is armored.
And quite frankly, if you fall in lava, your armor should deteriorate fairly quickly and you should still take damage. Lava as an environmental hazard should be the deadliest of deadly. It's something the player should fear and actively avoid in game, not something players should be able to swim back out of when they blindly drop into the middle of a lake of molten rock. Most games make it instant death, no matter what you're wearing.
So true. What are fire resist potions for again??? I could get diamond or enchant fire resist on armor, no reason to make a potion.
Guys, I'm having trouble dying in Creative mode. I don't want to restrict myself by not using it, so would Jeb please make it easier to die in Creative?
Please be quiet before I have a mental breakdown and start murdering wild animals.
Making the argument that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid is a pathetic way to debate.
My point is there is no debate. This game is easy. While difficulty is relative, I'm not special. I'm not a gaming enthusiast that beats everything with high scores and wins at parties. I'm just a guy.
And I didn't say stupid. I said they suck, as in, not skillful, at all.
Here's my generalized scale:
suck
moderate
skilled
MLG
If I'm playing hard mode for this game, and I'm breezing through it, that's a problem. Saying, "get a mod" is a ******** solution. I shouldn't have to do that, nor limit myself.
Well, I took KingNewbs challenge and completed the full set of iron armor on a random seed in hardcore mode in less than 15 minutes! I have to agree that armor is overpowered, especially diamond enchanted armor. But I feel like it was luck I was able to get the iron that fast, and it isn't diamond armor, and it isn't close to enchanted yet. But still, I completed it. :smile.gif:
Well, I took KingNewbs challenge and completed the full set of iron armor on a random seed in hardcore mode in less than 15 minutes! I have to agree that armor is overpowered, especially diamond enchanted armor. But I feel like it was luck I was able to get the iron that fast, and it isn't diamond armor, and it isn't close to enchanted yet. But still, I completed it. :smile.gif:
Thanks! And I feel that this thread deserves my viewpoint. I don't think the game is as easy as the OP says. Sure, I was able to get that armor in under 15 minutes, but it required setting myself down a path towards starvation and mobs in the first night without any shelter whatsover. Under an hour with properly equipping yourself the first day is definitely doable though, and I'd say regardless of the seed given (as opposed to my challenge, which I was luckier than kingnewbs or seed.
I mean sure, there might be some people feeling like they need a challenge. But have they ever tried a CTM map, perhaps one by vechs? You're allowed to do everything you can normally in the game, but the maps are super challenging, and take a while to complete (so LP'ers take months, though that's with editing and whatnot).
tl;dr - Only armor is overpowered, not the general difficulty of mobs, nor the amount of ores generated in a map (with the exception of gold perhaps, though all that really needs is a way for fortune to work on it and it's fixed).
If I'm playing hard mode for this game, and I'm breezing through it, that's a problem. Saying, "get a mod" is a ******** solution. I shouldn't have to do that, nor limit myself.
I think you bring a preconception of what 'hard' should be to this game that is completely inappropriate. Modding the game is an excellent solution for people that feel that the game should be something that it isn't.
As an example, the world height is 128. Some people don't like that, wanted more or less. Developer response was to make the modification of world height simpler rather than changing the world height itself. Modifying how much armor reduces damage or how much damage mobs do or even ore generation is already fairly easy such that no action by devs could make that simpler. Good grief, there's already mods that add entirely new weapons, mobs and terrain/ore generation. Surely someone looking for difficulty or challenge can cobble up a mod that satisfies that desire.
I've made a second attempt with significantly more success... but did I best the challenge? Find out:
Rayman has set up an SMP server designed just for this challenge. 15 minutes and then death. Regardless of victory. And then you pass the world on to the next challenger.
For details, join us on the #mindcrack channel at irc.quakenet.org
I agree about Iron, to easy and to strong 2 nights in I'm pwning mobs with an iron sword not even worrying about armor. Coal I don't mind getting stacks upon stacks because then I can make tons of stone bricks while I mine. Mobs aren't scary at all I agree playing on hard mode I've rarely even been attacked by any. I put in mo-creatures just for an added challenge
Writing a petition for a game? Really? Get a life, go outside or something. If this game is so boring, don't play it. There's more to life than videogames. It seems to be a common thing for people to get insanely addicted to videogames to the point where it becomes the person's life, and then they come to do stuff like this whining about a videogame.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If Facebook, Myspace, and Twitter were all destroyed, 90% of teens would go insane. If you're one of the 10% that would be laughing at them, copy this into your signature and hope it happens.
Writing a petition for a game? Really? Get a life, go outside or something. If this game is so boring, don't play it. There's more to life than videogames. It seems to be a common thing for people to get insanely addicted to videogames to the point where it becomes the person's life, and then they come to do stuff like this whining about a videogame.
Joke's on you--you're spending your time on the internet when YOU could be outside.
If you are signing this, you agree that:
- Armor needs to be nerfed, heavily.
- Mobs need to be improved, and give the game some challenge.
- Ores need to be harder to find.
So... where do I sign if I'm 100% completely against all of those things?
So... where do I sign if I'm 100% completely against all of those things?
You take the Monkah_Boy Challenge and upload the results to Youtube, is how you sign! :smile.gif:
Though, judging by the participants so far, Monkah_Boy kinda has a point... I still don't think it hurts the game though. And in the end the 15 minute challenge is a blast to attempt regardless of success or failure. So go for it! :biggrin.gif:
As an example, the world height is 128. Some people don't like that, wanted more or less. Developer response was to make the modification of world height simpler rather than changing the world height itself. Modifying how much armor reduces damage or how much damage mobs do or even ore generation is already fairly easy such that no action by devs could make that simpler. Good grief, there's already mods that add entirely new weapons, mobs and terrain/ore generation. Surely someone looking for difficulty or challenge can cobble up a mod that satisfies that desire.
This is a bad example and doesn't really support your argument. Height is a fixed element in the game, the developer NEVER claimed there would be any options to change it and gave fairly good reasons why they went with the height restriction they did (performance). With difficulty, they specifically offer a number of difficulty settings which are supposed to range from easy to hard. Adjusting the higher difficulty settings or adding more to make the game actually challenging for those who want a challenge is not something that impacts performance and makes the game more appealing to a wider audience. The height restriction isn't something that actually drives people away from the game.
And people seem to be getting too hung up on the challenge BS. Whether it takes 15 minutes or an hour to become invincible doesn't matter, both time frames are problematic. We have elements that require the player to invest time into them, but which are made entirely worthless by how effective base armor is and how easy it is to acquire.
I agree that armour needs to be adjusted but I'm OK with the amount of ore and the AI is being worked which should hopefully make the mobs more of a challenge.
You take the Monkah_Boy Challenge and upload the results to Youtube, is how you sign! :smile.gif:
Though, judging by the participants so far, Monkah_Boy kinda has a point... I still don't think it hurts the game though. And in the end the 15 minute challenge is a blast to attempt regardless of success or failure. So go for it! :biggrin.gif:
OK, took the challenge. I'm at work, so no FRAPS or anything to make a video with, but I'll admit that I was actually able to get 28 iron bars (enough for a full suit of armor and two swords) in about 10 minutes (I was just finishing crafting the armor and swords as the sun was setting). However, I was not focusing on anything else (like setting up a food source), and I was EXTREMELY lucky to have spawned right next to TWO ravines that connected to the surface, so scanning the walls for exposed iron and simply mining my way to it was exceptionally easy. I wish I had been able to record it, because I doubt I'd be able to pull that off again. :smile.gif:
Regardless, even if you can get a full suit of armor in 10 minutes (under the right circumstances), I still honestly don't feel the game needs to be made harder across the board. If "Hard" difficulty was beefed up, that would be fine, but I think "Normal" is good as it stands. I still find myself risking death when deep in caves, or in the nether, due to repeated creeper and skeleton attacks (or ghasts, in the nether), and armor getting damaged (unless you waste 4 inventory for a backup suit), as well as environmental hazards. I honestly feel that if the game was significantly harder, it would no longer be fun for me, it would just get frustrating.
For people that want more of a challenge, hard mode could be made harder, or they could install mods that make the game even more challenging. But requesting that the devs force additional challenge on ALL players by default, is not the right option.
This is a bad example and doesn't really support your argument. Height is a fixed element in the game, the developer NEVER claimed there would be any options to change it and gave fairly good reasons why they went with the height restriction they did (performance).
It wasn't always a fixed element (going back to classic). Hopefully you can see the irony in your statement. If one is catering to the lowest common denominator in performance, one should also be catering to the lowest common denominator in difficulty. If it's too hard, it isn't appealing to the larger number of people. So just like the ceiling being too low for some people, you should look to mods to create the added difficulty that you desire.
With difficulty, they specifically offer a number of difficulty settings which are supposed to range from easy to hard. Adjusting the higher difficulty settings or adding more to make the game actually challenging for those who want a challenge is not something that impacts performance and makes the game more appealing to a wider audience. The height restriction isn't something that actually drives people away from the game.
Given the signatories on this petition thread versus the minecraft population, one could safely say that adjusting the difficulty upward would make the game appealing to a narrower audience. A fair share of mods already make the game considerably easier than you are complaining about it being.
I far prefer having armor as it is today, where it's actually useful, yet something you still need to craft and maintain (as with swords and tools), than to have it go back to being a complete waste of resources as it was before.
The fact that you can get a full suit in 15 minutes doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if you started the game with a full set. It's still something you basically need to have to survive for any length of time in the less hospitable areas of the game, and still requires a constant source of resources to keep on.
In my opinion, armor, ore rarity, and monster difficulty, (at least for the "Normal" difficulty setting) are all closer to perfect as they stand right now than they ever have been. I would absolutely NOT want to see anything changed as being proposed in this thread, unless it was for "Hard" (or a new, higher) difficulty setting.
I don't think durability is really the problem most people have with armor, it's the effectiveness. I don't really care if armor lasts longer, just so long as it doesn't make you completely invulnerable to damage from mobs. The game world should still pose a threat even if the player is armored.
And quite frankly, if you fall in lava, your armor should deteriorate fairly quickly and you should still take damage. Lava as an environmental hazard should be the deadliest of deadly. It's something the player should fear and actively avoid in game, not something players should be able to swim back out of when they blindly drop into the middle of a lake of molten rock. Most games make it instant death, no matter what you're wearing.
My point is there is no debate. This game is easy. While difficulty is relative, I'm not special. I'm not a gaming enthusiast that beats everything with high scores and wins at parties. I'm just a guy.
And I didn't say stupid. I said they suck, as in, not skillful, at all.
Here's my generalized scale:
suck
moderate
skilled
MLG
If I'm playing hard mode for this game, and I'm breezing through it, that's a problem. Saying, "get a mod" is a ******** solution. I shouldn't have to do that, nor limit myself.
Maze Collection, Youtube channel, & RFW Series
Nice work, Thungon. :smile.gif:
Thanks! And I feel that this thread deserves my viewpoint. I don't think the game is as easy as the OP says. Sure, I was able to get that armor in under 15 minutes, but it required setting myself down a path towards starvation and mobs in the first night without any shelter whatsover. Under an hour with properly equipping yourself the first day is definitely doable though, and I'd say regardless of the seed given (as opposed to my challenge, which I was luckier than kingnewbs or seed.
I mean sure, there might be some people feeling like they need a challenge. But have they ever tried a CTM map, perhaps one by vechs? You're allowed to do everything you can normally in the game, but the maps are super challenging, and take a while to complete (so LP'ers take months, though that's with editing and whatnot).
tl;dr - Only armor is overpowered, not the general difficulty of mobs, nor the amount of ores generated in a map (with the exception of gold perhaps, though all that really needs is a way for fortune to work on it and it's fixed).
Maze Collection, Youtube channel, & RFW Series
I think you bring a preconception of what 'hard' should be to this game that is completely inappropriate. Modding the game is an excellent solution for people that feel that the game should be something that it isn't.
As an example, the world height is 128. Some people don't like that, wanted more or less. Developer response was to make the modification of world height simpler rather than changing the world height itself. Modifying how much armor reduces damage or how much damage mobs do or even ore generation is already fairly easy such that no action by devs could make that simpler. Good grief, there's already mods that add entirely new weapons, mobs and terrain/ore generation. Surely someone looking for difficulty or challenge can cobble up a mod that satisfies that desire.
Are you playing Sleepless Horrors? Let me know what you think!
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/1-6-4-sleepless-horrors.39181/
Rayman has set up an SMP server designed just for this challenge. 15 minutes and then death. Regardless of victory. And then you pass the world on to the next challenger.
For details, join us on the #mindcrack channel at irc.quakenet.org
That is all.
Joke's on you--you're spending your time on the internet when YOU could be outside.
So... where do I sign if I'm 100% completely against all of those things?
You take the Monkah_Boy Challenge and upload the results to Youtube, is how you sign! :smile.gif:
Though, judging by the participants so far, Monkah_Boy kinda has a point... I still don't think it hurts the game though. And in the end the 15 minute challenge is a blast to attempt regardless of success or failure. So go for it! :biggrin.gif:
This is a bad example and doesn't really support your argument. Height is a fixed element in the game, the developer NEVER claimed there would be any options to change it and gave fairly good reasons why they went with the height restriction they did (performance). With difficulty, they specifically offer a number of difficulty settings which are supposed to range from easy to hard. Adjusting the higher difficulty settings or adding more to make the game actually challenging for those who want a challenge is not something that impacts performance and makes the game more appealing to a wider audience. The height restriction isn't something that actually drives people away from the game.
And people seem to be getting too hung up on the challenge BS. Whether it takes 15 minutes or an hour to become invincible doesn't matter, both time frames are problematic. We have elements that require the player to invest time into them, but which are made entirely worthless by how effective base armor is and how easy it is to acquire.
OK, took the challenge. I'm at work, so no FRAPS or anything to make a video with, but I'll admit that I was actually able to get 28 iron bars (enough for a full suit of armor and two swords) in about 10 minutes (I was just finishing crafting the armor and swords as the sun was setting). However, I was not focusing on anything else (like setting up a food source), and I was EXTREMELY lucky to have spawned right next to TWO ravines that connected to the surface, so scanning the walls for exposed iron and simply mining my way to it was exceptionally easy. I wish I had been able to record it, because I doubt I'd be able to pull that off again. :smile.gif:
Regardless, even if you can get a full suit of armor in 10 minutes (under the right circumstances), I still honestly don't feel the game needs to be made harder across the board. If "Hard" difficulty was beefed up, that would be fine, but I think "Normal" is good as it stands. I still find myself risking death when deep in caves, or in the nether, due to repeated creeper and skeleton attacks (or ghasts, in the nether), and armor getting damaged (unless you waste 4 inventory for a backup suit), as well as environmental hazards. I honestly feel that if the game was significantly harder, it would no longer be fun for me, it would just get frustrating.
For people that want more of a challenge, hard mode could be made harder, or they could install mods that make the game even more challenging. But requesting that the devs force additional challenge on ALL players by default, is not the right option.
It wasn't always a fixed element (going back to classic). Hopefully you can see the irony in your statement. If one is catering to the lowest common denominator in performance, one should also be catering to the lowest common denominator in difficulty. If it's too hard, it isn't appealing to the larger number of people. So just like the ceiling being too low for some people, you should look to mods to create the added difficulty that you desire.
Given the signatories on this petition thread versus the minecraft population, one could safely say that adjusting the difficulty upward would make the game appealing to a narrower audience. A fair share of mods already make the game considerably easier than you are complaining about it being.
Are you playing Sleepless Horrors? Let me know what you think!
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/1-6-4-sleepless-horrors.39181/
The fact that you can get a full suit in 15 minutes doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if you started the game with a full set. It's still something you basically need to have to survive for any length of time in the less hospitable areas of the game, and still requires a constant source of resources to keep on.
In my opinion, armor, ore rarity, and monster difficulty, (at least for the "Normal" difficulty setting) are all closer to perfect as they stand right now than they ever have been. I would absolutely NOT want to see anything changed as being proposed in this thread, unless it was for "Hard" (or a new, higher) difficulty setting.