1. Crafting requires you to either A. Try thousands of combinations in the hope of randomly making something or B. Have the wiki open in the background at all times to be able to play the game.
2. NPCs are totally pointless, they don't even give xp.
3. You can get stuck in The End.
4. Using Nether portals for fast travel is still impossible, yet this was the very purpose the Nether was created for.
5. Still no way to load a Survival world in Creative or vice-versa without managing world files directly.
6. 1.8.1 broke as much as it added. Biomes are awful now, especially swamps and the lack of beaches, plus huge oceans with no reason to cross or even swim in them meaning wasted map space. 'Survival' playstyle totally destroyed to make way for 'Adventure' which is arguably not in the spirit of MineCraft atall, by making caves sprawl for miles giving lots of easy materials, and all too common mineshafts providing a cheaty underground wood source. Combat is rewarded with xp yet Mining and Crafting (supposedly the foundations of the game) are not.
7. It would be easy to not even notice that Minecraft has been fully released. One tiny post on the forums that was quickly hidden by a load of less relevant Minecon stuff is the only evidence, nothing on minecraft.net, no new methods of distribution, no advertisement, nothing to make it stand out as anything other than just being 1.9 with added hype.
8. Promised mod support never happened.
1. This has been true for the longest time, it's really quite stupid honestly.
2. 100% agreed.
3. Why is there even an end? Why is there an end in a sandbox game that has no end? Why is there a boss fight in a sandbox game where the point is to either build or survive, not gear up with shitty potions and enchantments to fight a boss or gain an advantage in PVP? If you weren't here throughout much of Alpha, you likely won't understand what I'm talking about. And if you "don't use it if you don't like it, it's optional" trolls come here, I WILL report you.
4. The purpose of the nether was originally to create a new dimension to explore, but of course notch forgot about this and left nothing in it for a year before adding a pointless structure to them.
5. True, one of the big flaws of 1.8+.
6. I can not agree more, the entire base of the game for two years is just thrown out the window for low-quality, even an excuse for new content, adventure/combat ****.
7. Yep. Everyone cares about minecon, rather then a full game with more flaws then good content/
8. Promised mod support went forgotten for over a year, just like more nether content, and now notch doesn't even care anymore.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Users lack the mental capacity to have intelligent discussion, and mods lack the mental capacity to make intellegent decisions... I give up trying to share my intelligence with the world.
For us players, why does it matter so much that the game is called Minecraft 1.0.0 and not Minecraft Beta 1.9.6? The game would have been identical and it you would have played it in exactly the same way as you do now. Minecraft will never be finished so Mojang finally just picked a seemingly random date and decided to hold a convention to celebrate.
It was now or never, sort of. For us players it doens't matter, but for Mojang; Having a game that is finally released give them new posibilities in terms of PR, reviews and it's probably also financialy better to have a finished product to sell rather than something that are being tested. I'm not thinking only on the price tag, but financial security in general.
Its some bundle of indie games that a website is selling, and you can get it for donating whatever you want to some charity... making a comparison to minecraft is really stupid, as most good people would donate for more than minecraft's worth in dollars to get the games.
How interesting...
I agree, how is that relatable? Lol
I think almost all of OP's points are pretty bogus, but I too think "full release" is a bit of a misnomer. The game is just chugging along like it has since Indev. 1.0 is one of the most stable updates we've had so far (and if you never played prereleases it's one of the biggest, too). But other than that, we do still have a mixed bag of complete and incomplete features and there are still bugs.
However, complaints that portals are broken or that oceans are pointless are just the result of someone lacking in creativity and ingenuity. Portals are just hard to use and only work over distances of at least several hundred blocks. They are not really broken. Oceans are a huge navigational aid and contain mushroom biomes, plus it's nice to have a house on a seacoast.
Yes, looking at it from a development standpoint, this game is technically still in alpha regardless of what Notch deigns to call it.
And he could call it whatever he wanted, imho, but he is deciding to constantly increase the cost of a game that by all reasonable measure is an alpha game. That isn't good behavior.
When you're creating a new world, and you go to the part where you type in the seed and you can choose whether or not you want to generate structures, there's a button to the right of the gen. structures button that says something like game mode, and it's stuck on normal.
It's people like you that made the Mojang staff try to stay away from this forum. If you hate minecraft so much, why are you here?
Notch hasn't been on the forums much since mid-2009, and nobody else on mojang ever used the forums much. And yet the notch fanboys still are always quick to defend mojang at the slightest weight of criticism, constructive or not. They try to come up with excuses for things with no reason, such as minecraft being a full game despite having many stupid/half-finished features, or things no point such as oceans, or logic for things without logic. They are always quick to defend Notch who doesn't even read the forums at all from any criticism. Then you have the idiots who hate on minecraft, the idiots who make "Discuss X feature", "What are your thoughts on X feature" or "Notch, add X feature now!" threads that do nothing but take up space, idiots who make threads about the same stupid things every day, idiots who whenever they see a certain kind of post, just press CTRL+V, idiots who say "don't use it if you don't like it, it's optional after all" and finally idiots who complain about idiots.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Users lack the mental capacity to have intelligent discussion, and mods lack the mental capacity to make intellegent decisions... I give up trying to share my intelligence with the world.
Ok, It's my last post, as I need a "approved post" to remove this limitation [Don't even know how this works, never bothered to post here]. I'll answer this and try to better explain my point, as it seems no one is getting it. I don't ask you to agree, but I'm not doing assumptions neither making up things. I love minecraft, I'm unhappy how things are going, but I'm not trying to make you dislike it on anything like that. I'm trying to show you all what is wrong with minecraft development, and why.
Yes, Levels are used to enchant, I know this, I've read every patch notes since beta launched, I do check minecrafts updates often, even if I don't play it that often anymore.
First, minecraft was in beta testing. What does this mean? It means potential costumer should be able to sample how the software is going along. Sometimes beta testing is closed, only a handful of people have access, or open, everyone have access. The point is to everytime something new is implemented, you have a lot of people to test, so you can track bugs, and AFTER this, implement new things. Rinse and repeate until the core software is finished.
We will never know what a core Minecraft should be, as this can only be answered by Mojang, and sincerely,[MyOpinion] it seems neither Notch knows[/MyOpinion].
When you release a software/game, the core should be working. Let's assume whatever was on 1.9 was core, just for the sake of simplicity.
Maps did not have the features intended, npcs did not have the features intendend, and EXP was not working as intended [No skills points]. And there were a lot of bugs. Lots.
So next step is to fix the bugs, and FINISH whatever is ALREADY implemented. You can't fix every single bug, but thats ok, it is what bugfixes and patches are for.
THEN someone can release the software. It will probably have a few bugs and stuff, but it can be fixed in usually a week or two, depending on the software.
Now let's see what happened with minecraft:
1.9 kicks in, lots of features added, most of them [MyOpinion] useless [/MyOpinion], but still features. Some features added from previous updates still haven't been finished [maps], but thats okay, we are still in beta after all.
Then Jeb starts the pre-release policy to test a update before it goes live, which is awesome, and I praise Mojang for this.
Then, next update will be the RELEASE [Core finished] Version.
Minecon happens [something most people didn't want, check his tumblr].
Then we get Minecraft 1.0 RELEASE version. We get a lot of new features, previous features were not finished, bugs from 1.9 STILL HAPPEN, and Notch get's a vacation when he should be fixing bugs after launch.
This. Is. Wrong.
People paid for the game so Notch could work more time in it [He quit his previous job just to work solely on minecraft], in purely good faith. Then vacations, vacations, vacations. [NotOnTopicRant] This is unethic, lazy work [/NotOnTopicRant]. And now he's charging full price for it.
I'm sorry if you can't see how wrong this is, but I do. If you don't agree with me, thats fine, but you can't deny this happened.
As soon as I'm able, I'll post more on topic. Until then, I may reply with edit's if anyone is interested.
So, is it agreed that unfinished features can be opinionated?
Development did slow down, but he did have several good reasons, such as his honeymoon with EZ. His current vacation (playing Skyrim), while not the best of reasons, is probably a bit of recoup after Minecon, although Jeb doesn't seem to ever let up.
I think every problem that people have with the game ultimately stems from two things: the idea that Notch is perfect, and the openness of development. Notch doesn't disappear randomly, he always has some sort of excuse for doing so. He's generally very open with things, and allows us to see what is going on. If he wasn't, most likely we would have never known that maps might have been able to zoom. At that point, you probably wouldn't have even taken notice that maps don't zoom as was thought. Again, bugs happen with any game, but I think from now, we should look at Jeb to do most of the grunt work, as Notch does more of the "fun" things, along with his home life and Mojang to run. There is even so much more work put into the game behind the surface that we aren't aware of, yet takes time to implement. All I can say, is be patient, things will come, and if its not what suits your tastes, you could always install a mod or two if you cared to do so.
So, is it agreed that unfinished features can be opinionated?
Development did slow down, but he did have several good reasons, such as his honeymoon with EZ. His current vacation (playing Skyrim), while not the best of reasons, is probably a bit of recoup after Minecon, although Jeb doesn't seem to ever let up.
I think every problem that people have with the game ultimately stems from two things: the idea that Notch is perfect, and the openness of development. Notch doesn't disappear randomly, he always has some sort of excuse for doing so. He's generally very open with things, and allows us to see what is going on. If he wasn't, most likely we would have never known that maps might have been able to zoom. At that point, you probably wouldn't have even taken notice that maps don't zoom as was thought. Again, bugs happen with any game, but I think from now, we should look at Jeb to do most of the grunt work, as Notch does more of the "fun" things, along with his home life and Mojang to run. There is even so much more work put into the game behind the surface that we aren't aware of, yet takes time to implement. All I can say, is be patient, things will come, and if its not what suits your tastes, you could always install a mod or two if you cared to do so.
Again, you are misinterpreting me. The whole problem with minecraft development: No focus.
They start something, and then forget it.
I don't really want to talk about the vacations thing, because someone enlighted me about it. General culture on europe is "work to live", and not "live to work". And I find this really good. Bu the frequency of vacations are increasing too much, without the proper focus that should happen NOW. As it was released.
8. Notch hasn't added mod support, which is pretty disappointing. But, he has promised it, and since minecraft is no longer in full development (Beta), we should be able to expect it pretty soon.
I want to believe this =/ Not only about mod support, but general development.
Well, it's going to be nearly $30, and only one person works on it full-time...so really it isn't that cheap. There are a lot of other, cheaper games that are constantly worked on by more than one person.
Notch didn't keep most of his promises regarding the content that would be in the full version. He could have kept them easily by hiring MORE THAN ONE PERSON to work on minecraft. He didn't and so Minecraft suffers. Minecraft also is rather directionless, with new features not blending well into old features (e.g. monsters balanced with enchants in mind when enchants are a late game item, ore rarity not always having anything to do with value, the Nether not having much content that adds depth to the game, almost no reason to explore in the adventure update, useless NPCs, etc).
Minecraft does one thing and really only one thing well. It allows self-expression via manipulating the position of blocks. That's it. Of course, that doesn't make it a good game. Plenty of programs allow self-expression and aren't games. Designing houses, castles, caves, and such is fun and all, but that doesn't make a GAME...that's just an art program (which of course can be fun to use, not all things that are fun are games). It is a fact that the game-like aspects, the ones where there is a chance of failure, the ones that require some level of skill to achieve success, etc, are rather poorly done.
The point is Notch said a bunch of things would happen and didn't do enough to make sure they would happen. It was as easy as hiring more programmers, which he could afford thanks to the community's generous support of the potential of Minecraft. Instead he pocketed the money and spent some on completely different games that he wasn't working on before. Only a small token went to Minecraft itself. That's not cool.
These are the reasons I don't like minecraft nearly as much as I used to, it just doesn't have the same appeal with new features not blending well with old features, combined with everything else you said. I'd make long, constructive posts, but usually people beat me to it :tongue.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Users lack the mental capacity to have intelligent discussion, and mods lack the mental capacity to make intellegent decisions... I give up trying to share my intelligence with the world.
Notch hasn't been on the forums much since mid-2009, and nobody else on mojang ever used the forums much. And yet the notch fanboys still are always quick to defend mojang at the slightest weight of criticism, constructive or not. They try to come up with excuses for things with no reason, such as minecraft being a full game despite having many stupid/half-finished features, or things no point such as oceans, or logic for things without logic. They are always quick to defend Notch who doesn't even read the forums at all from any criticism. Then you have the idiots who hate on minecraft, the idiots who make "Discuss X feature", "What are your thoughts on X feature" or "Notch, add X feature now!" threads that do nothing but take up space, idiots who make threads about the same stupid things every day, idiots who whenever they see a certain kind of post, just press CTRL+V, idiots who say "don't use it if you don't like it, it's optional after all" and finally idiots who complain about idiots.
Can we have a discussion without being so incredibly biased?
Again, you are misinterpreting me. The whole problem with minecraft development: No focus.
They start something, and then forget it.
I don't really want to talk about the vacations thing, because someone enlighted me about it. General culture on europe is "work to live", and not "live to work". And I find this really good. Bu the frequency of vacations are increasing too much, without the proper focus that should happen NOW. As it was released.
I want to believe this =/ Not only about mod support, but general development.
I understood that. I was just adding in my opinions on it too. But, Jeb is working on bug fixes as we speak, and once Notch gets back from his "break", things should speed along fairly well.
And I guess that's why Europe typically seems so layed back then.
I understood that. I was just adding in my opinions on it too. But, Jeb is working on bug fixes as we speak, and once Notch gets back from his "break", things should speed along fairly well.
And I guess that's why Europe typically seems so layed back then.
Yeah, I like that kinda of lifestyle though, makes more sense. But sometimes I feels notch is abusing it, and Jeb ends up doing most of the work. I hope they add more purpose to enchanting, potions, and combat in general.
Development did slow down, but he did have several good reasons, such as his honeymoon with EZ. His current vacation (playing Skyrim), while not the best of reasons, is probably a bit of recoup after Minecon, although Jeb doesn't seem to ever let up.
Yeah, it makes sense. It isn't like he had money to hire more people to work on Minecraft....
Yeah, I like that kinda of lifestyle though, makes more sense. But sometimes I feels notch is abusing it, and Jeb ends up doing most of the work. I hope they add more purpose to enchanting, potions, and combat in general.
More purpose to things would be nice, and even expanding upon potions and enchanting would be nice.
Well, it's going to be nearly $30, and only one person works on it full-time...so really it isn't that cheap. There are a lot of other, cheaper games that are constantly worked on by more than one person.
Notch didn't keep most of his promises regarding the content that would be in the full version. He could have kept them easily by hiring MORE THAN ONE PERSON to work on minecraft. He didn't and so Minecraft suffers. Minecraft also is rather directionless, with new features not blending well into old features (e.g. monsters balanced with enchants in mind when enchants are a late game item, ore rarity not always having anything to do with value, the Nether not having much content that adds depth to the game, almost no reason to explore in the adventure update, useless NPCs, etc).
Minecraft does one thing and really only one thing well. It allows self-expression via manipulating the position of blocks. That's it. Of course, that doesn't make it a good game. Plenty of programs allow self-expression and aren't games. Designing houses, castles, caves, and such is fun and all, but that doesn't make a GAME...that's just an art program (which of course can be fun to use, not all things that are fun are games). It is a fact that the game-like aspects, the ones where there is a chance of failure, the ones that require some level of skill to achieve success, etc, are rather poorly done.
The point is Notch said a bunch of things would happen and didn't do enough to make sure they would happen. It was as easy as hiring more programmers, which he could afford thanks to the community's generous support of the potential of Minecraft. Instead he pocketed the money and spent some on completely different games that he wasn't working on before. Only a small token went to Minecraft itself. That's not cool.
If you actually try hardcore survival it is a game, but most people put it on easy or peaceful and talk like you are right now.
and obviously Notch didnt anticipate this to be such a "hit", so I dont think you can blame him for lack of staff. He recently hired someone for AI development and created his own studio, so I dont think that he is being lazy at all. There are a couple indie devs I know of who refuse to work with someone else, obviously Notch is better than them in this aspect
More purpose to things would be nice, and even expanding upon potions and enchanting would be nice.
Potions and enchanting need to be balanced, well-designed systems too. Right now they are a bit of a mess, especially enchanting.
Honestly, I don't really hope that Mojang does much for Minecraft anymore. My best hope now is that this AI programmer makes a bunch of tools that community can use to have better monsters and more of a challenge. I'd like to mod the game to be difficult, where how you design your base really matters, rather than any hole in the ground is ok -- this will require good enemy AI. I'd also like to see rewards for exploration (most likely this too will come from a mod) and more interaction with NPCs and so forth. I don't see Mojang doing much of that given the quality of the "adventure" update, but perhaps they can make some new features accessible enough so the community can implement things properly.
1. Crafting requires you to either A. Try thousands of combinations in the hope of randomly making something or B. Have the wiki open in the background at all times to be able to play the game.
6. 1.8.1 broke as much as it added. Biomes are awful now, especially swamps and the lack of beaches, plus huge oceans with no reason to cross or even swim in them meaning wasted map space. 'Survival' playstyle totally destroyed to make way for 'Adventure' which is arguably not in the spirit of MineCraft atall, by making caves sprawl for miles giving lots of easy materials, and all too common mineshafts providing a cheaty underground wood source. Combat is rewarded with xp yet Mining and Crafting (supposedly the foundations of the game) are not.
Beta builds are irrelevant to this discussion. This is just a huge list of things you don't like.
7. It would be easy to not even notice that Minecraft has been fully released. One tiny post on the forums that was quickly hidden by a load of less relevant Minecon stuff is the only evidence, nothing on minecraft.net, no new methods of distribution, no advertisement, nothing to make it stand out as anything other than just being 1.9 with added hype.
1. This has been true for the longest time, it's really quite stupid honestly.
2. 100% agreed.
3. Why is there even an end? Why is there an end in a sandbox game that has no end? Why is there a boss fight in a sandbox game where the point is to either build or survive, not gear up with shitty potions and enchantments to fight a boss or gain an advantage in PVP? If you weren't here throughout much of Alpha, you likely won't understand what I'm talking about. And if you "don't use it if you don't like it, it's optional" trolls come here, I WILL report you.
4. The purpose of the nether was originally to create a new dimension to explore, but of course notch forgot about this and left nothing in it for a year before adding a pointless structure to them.
5. True, one of the big flaws of 1.8+.
6. I can not agree more, the entire base of the game for two years is just thrown out the window for low-quality, even an excuse for new content, adventure/combat ****.
7. Yep. Everyone cares about minecon, rather then a full game with more flaws then good content/
8. Promised mod support went forgotten for over a year, just like more nether content, and now notch doesn't even care anymore.
It was now or never, sort of. For us players it doens't matter, but for Mojang; Having a game that is finally released give them new posibilities in terms of PR, reviews and it's probably also financialy better to have a finished product to sell rather than something that are being tested. I'm not thinking only on the price tag, but financial security in general.
How interesting...
I agree, how is that relatable? Lol
However, complaints that portals are broken or that oceans are pointless are just the result of someone lacking in creativity and ingenuity. Portals are just hard to use and only work over distances of at least several hundred blocks. They are not really broken. Oceans are a huge navigational aid and contain mushroom biomes, plus it's nice to have a house on a seacoast.
How to not die in a cave
And he could call it whatever he wanted, imho, but he is deciding to constantly increase the cost of a game that by all reasonable measure is an alpha game. That isn't good behavior.
The point is not the bumdle, check the full price on each of these games. They are all cheaper. [Seems I'm still able to post]
Notch hasn't been on the forums much since mid-2009, and nobody else on mojang ever used the forums much. And yet the notch fanboys still are always quick to defend mojang at the slightest weight of criticism, constructive or not. They try to come up with excuses for things with no reason, such as minecraft being a full game despite having many stupid/half-finished features, or things no point such as oceans, or logic for things without logic. They are always quick to defend Notch who doesn't even read the forums at all from any criticism. Then you have the idiots who hate on minecraft, the idiots who make "Discuss X feature", "What are your thoughts on X feature" or "Notch, add X feature now!" threads that do nothing but take up space, idiots who make threads about the same stupid things every day, idiots who whenever they see a certain kind of post, just press CTRL+V, idiots who say "don't use it if you don't like it, it's optional after all" and finally idiots who complain about idiots.
So, is it agreed that unfinished features can be opinionated?
Development did slow down, but he did have several good reasons, such as his honeymoon with EZ. His current vacation (playing Skyrim), while not the best of reasons, is probably a bit of recoup after Minecon, although Jeb doesn't seem to ever let up.
I think every problem that people have with the game ultimately stems from two things: the idea that Notch is perfect, and the openness of development. Notch doesn't disappear randomly, he always has some sort of excuse for doing so. He's generally very open with things, and allows us to see what is going on. If he wasn't, most likely we would have never known that maps might have been able to zoom. At that point, you probably wouldn't have even taken notice that maps don't zoom as was thought. Again, bugs happen with any game, but I think from now, we should look at Jeb to do most of the grunt work, as Notch does more of the "fun" things, along with his home life and Mojang to run. There is even so much more work put into the game behind the surface that we aren't aware of, yet takes time to implement. All I can say, is be patient, things will come, and if its not what suits your tastes, you could always install a mod or two if you cared to do so.
Again, you are misinterpreting me. The whole problem with minecraft development: No focus.
They start something, and then forget it.
I don't really want to talk about the vacations thing, because someone enlighted me about it. General culture on europe is "work to live", and not "live to work". And I find this really good. Bu the frequency of vacations are increasing too much, without the proper focus that should happen NOW. As it was released.
I want to believe this =/ Not only about mod support, but general development.
These are the reasons I don't like minecraft nearly as much as I used to, it just doesn't have the same appeal with new features not blending well with old features, combined with everything else you said. I'd make long, constructive posts, but usually people beat me to it :tongue.gif:
Can we have a discussion without being so incredibly biased?
I understood that. I was just adding in my opinions on it too. But, Jeb is working on bug fixes as we speak, and once Notch gets back from his "break", things should speed along fairly well.
And I guess that's why Europe typically seems so layed back then.
Yeah, I like that kinda of lifestyle though, makes more sense. But sometimes I feels notch is abusing it, and Jeb ends up doing most of the work. I hope they add more purpose to enchanting, potions, and combat in general.
Yeah, it makes sense. It isn't like he had money to hire more people to work on Minecraft....
More purpose to things would be nice, and even expanding upon potions and enchanting would be nice.
If you actually try hardcore survival it is a game, but most people put it on easy or peaceful and talk like you are right now.
and obviously Notch didnt anticipate this to be such a "hit", so I dont think you can blame him for lack of staff. He recently hired someone for AI development and created his own studio, so I dont think that he is being lazy at all. There are a couple indie devs I know of who refuse to work with someone else, obviously Notch is better than them in this aspect
Potions and enchanting need to be balanced, well-designed systems too. Right now they are a bit of a mess, especially enchanting.
Honestly, I don't really hope that Mojang does much for Minecraft anymore. My best hope now is that this AI programmer makes a bunch of tools that community can use to have better monsters and more of a challenge. I'd like to mod the game to be difficult, where how you design your base really matters, rather than any hole in the ground is ok -- this will require good enemy AI. I'd also like to see rewards for exploration (most likely this too will come from a mod) and more interaction with NPCs and so forth. I don't see Mojang doing much of that given the quality of the "adventure" update, but perhaps they can make some new features accessible enough so the community can implement things properly.
This is the only good point you have.
Sorry, I know nothing.
No, you can't.
Fast travel through the nether is and always has been possible.
Which other complete games allow you to do this? Games are designed with limits for good reasons.
Beta builds are irrelevant to this discussion. This is just a huge list of things you don't like.
How does that make it any less of a full game?
How many other games have this? I can't come up with 10 examples.