Below table doesn't count. It only sees itself and one space above itself. And yeah, corners count, bookcases just seem to not block the "corners". That's how people managed to get level 50 enchants.
could someone tell me if the runes that you see in the enchanting table actually mean anything? i know its technically an actual language that you can translate but is that just gibberish?
could someone tell me if the runes that you see in the enchanting table actually mean anything? i know its technically an actual language that you can translate but is that just gibberish?
Below table doesn't count. It only sees itself and one space above itself. And yeah, corners count, bookcases just seem to not block the "corners". That's how people managed to get level 50 enchants.
Wow! My first 46. Thanks a ton.
Efficiency III, Fortune II :biggrin.gif:
The random loot system wouldnt be so bad if experience wasnt such a pain to obtain.
On creative mode, in The End, with a diamond sword flying in the air for infinite critical hits, with no chance of dieing, attacking giant crowds of endermen at a time, it took me 3 hours to get a measly 20 exp. I must reiterate, I was BASICALLY CHEATING, and it took 3 hours to get 20. This is too difficult. Sure, the rewards are great, but that is ignoring the final barrier to success. A randomized system that could very well eat your experience and give you squat.
could someone tell me if the runes that you see in the enchanting table actually mean anything? i know its technically an actual language that you can translate but is that just gibberish?
People are saying that, while the names are randomly generated, a certain name will always give the same effects in the same world (e.g., I have an enchantment called Spirit Darkness Twist that gives Knockback I on swords. That name will always give me Knockback I. But, if I were to start a new world, Spirit Darkness Twist could give an entirely different enchantment.)
I don't know if this has actually been proven yet.
I do agree that there needs to be a more accurate way to get enchantments. Even if what I said is true, it's still mostly guess work to get a decent enchantment. It's a waste of EXP.
I'd also like a way to remove enchantments (is there one?). If I get a crappy enchantment on my diamond sword and I want to reroll, I shouldn't have to waste precious diamonds.
In all honesty, I don't see why we can't just put a price on every enchantment that is relative to an item's tier. Then you can just pick and choose what levels of what enchantments we want. It IS our XP we are spending after all.
Also, where is the enchanting love for fishing rods, bows (or arrows), and hoes?
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In all honesty, I don't see why we can't just put a price on every enchantment that is relative to an item's tier. Then you can just pick and choose what levels of what enchantments we want. It IS our XP we are spending after all.
Also, where is the enchanting love for fishing rods, bows (or arrows), and hoes?
Would be highly overpowered if you got to pick the enchants. They are extremely powerful, wouldn't be fair to get them so easily and effortlessly. :wink.gif:.
Would be highly overpowered if you got to pick the enchants. They are extremely powerful, wouldn't be fair to get them so easily and effortlessly. :wink.gif:.
what about set enchantments like:
Enchantment: The Klaatu Xyzzy
Efficiency II
+ Random
+ Random
Would be highly overpowered if you got to pick the enchants. They are extremely powerful, wouldn't be fair to get them so easily and effortlessly. :wink.gif:.
Then you can make them more expensive and/or slightly less powerful. Or limit the number of enchantments to one per item. Or (Like I said) make so cost is based on tier. It could be based on tier of the item and tier of enchantments.
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Enchantment: The Klaatu Xyzzy
Efficiency II
+ Random
+ Random
That's actually the part I'm most concerned about. Multiple enchants easily available. Multi-enchants should be hard to find, especially good ones. Those are the game breaking ones. Throw Silk Touch and Unbreaking IV together and that thing will last you a VERY long time, then save you thousands of coal on smelting cobble, potentially. The only fair way, is completely random in my book. If it wasn't, it'd have to be more expensive, but that's what potions are for.
Potions will be the ones you can craft specific to your needs, expensive materials and niche purposes backed with a ton of research from people finding how to make the most overpowered potions possible :tongue.gif:.
That's actually the part I'm most concerned about. Multiple enchants easily available. Multi-enchants should be hard to find, especially good ones. Those are the game breaking ones. Throw Silk Touch and Unbreaking IV together and that thing will last you a VERY long time, then save you thousands of coal on smelting cobble, potentially. The only fair way, is completely random in my book. If it wasn't, it'd have to be more expensive, but that's what potions are for.
Potions will be the ones you can craft specific to your needs, expensive materials and niche purposes backed with a ton of research from people finding how to make the most overpowered potions possible :tongue.gif:.
Completely random is the oppisite of fair.
Person A gets 500 experience, makes 10 level 50 swords, and faisl to get what he wants
Person B gets 50 experience, makes 1 sword, and gets the ultimate sword on his first try.
How is that fair? Making it random is making it more expensive on average, but without the guarantee that you will actualyl get anything, and the potential that you get it really cheaply. Thats not balanced. Make it more expensive, sure. Make it so multiple enchantments cost extra. But completely random chance is not good.
Person A gets 500 experience, makes 10 level 50 swords, and faisl to get what he wants
Person B gets 50 experience, makes 1 sword, and gets the ultimate sword on his first try.
How is that fair? Making it random is making it more expensive on average, but without the guarantee that you will actualyl get anything, and the potential that you get it really cheaply. Thats not balanced. Make it more expensive, sure. Make it so multiple enchantments cost extra. But completely random chance is not good.
Random is fair because everyone has the same chance to find good stuff. And that everyone doesn't find good stuff necessarily. If everyone could CHOOSE to ALWAYS get good stuff, that would be boring and overpowered, even if it costs more, if you have a 100% chance to get good ****, it's too powerful with these stats.
Person A gets 500 experience, makes 10 level 50 swords, and faisl to get what he wants
Person B gets 50 experience, makes 1 sword, and gets the ultimate sword on his first try.
How is that fair? Making it random is making it more expensive on average, but without the guarantee that you will actualyl get anything, and the potential that you get it really cheaply. Thats not balanced. Make it more expensive, sure. Make it so multiple enchantments cost extra. But completely random chance is not good.
Exactly. The problem here is for such an exorbitant cost you could wind up with total crap. I don't mind the cost, I'll even pay more. But I should be able to pick the enchantments, or at least the first one. It's my experience, my single player world, and I put the effort into getting the levels. I should be able to spend it on what I want.
Hell, restrict me to one enchant per item, that's fine by me.
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Id like it if the text corresponded to the Enchant, and he added more enchants that fit with the current words. And you had to translate then in order to learn what they are.
Pre_2 Jumping. I was walking grass from the surface (65) to my underground pasture (19) I checked on it often, which had me jumping up a ton of stairs. Not to mention old (quake)habits die hard and my thumb just kinda rests on the spacebar :tongue.gif:
What am I doing wrong? I have an enchantment table surrounded by books, I've hacked my level up to 999999 but I still cannot enchant anything past level 8... I even killed a crap load of zombies manually...
Edit: I only hacked my level after seeing no increase after killing a lot of zombies
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Random is fair because everyone has the same chance to find good stuff. And that everyone doesn't find good stuff necessarily. If everyone could CHOOSE to ALWAYS get good stuff, that would be boring and overpowered, even if it costs more, if you have a 100% chance to get good ****, it's too powerful with these stats.
Everyone having the same chance means that beforehand, it is fair, but after you have made the determination you are locked into an unfair situation.
If everything costs an appropriate amount, then it is balanced. Sure, one guy may save up xp to get the really expensive, awesome item. But joe could get the more affordable item sooner and be reaping its benefits.
If a smite IV does 4 hearts extra damage(I have no clue of what the actual values are) and costs 16 levels, and a smite V deals 5 hearts and costs 25 levels, is it really worth it to get that extra heart of damage for over 150% cost?
And say multiple enchantments doubles the value.
So smite IV is 16 levels, and smite IV Fire aspect II costs 40k, and a smite V fire aspect V costs 100
Is it really worth all of that extra cost for that bonus? I'd say that if you are spending 100 levels on an item, you should get something pretty awesome.
Lets look at D&D. it has a large list of weapon enchantments, generally rated into tiers or +1, +2,+3,+4,or +5. 1d6 fire damage is +1, a vorpal sword that beheads enemies 5% of the time is +5.
You can also enchant it with a genral +, which simply increases accuracy and damage.
You total all of the enchantments on the sword, and get a total value, with a max limit of +10. so, you can have a +1 flaming sword, and it is effecitvelt a +2 weapon, which costs 8k. you you could get a +1 flaming smiting holy vorpal sword as a +10 weapon, and it costs 200k.
Now, if you are right, and people would just get the best sword possible, regardless of cost, everyone would have the same weapon. But that is not the case. Some people buy a vorpal weapons, other get a flaming vmapiric weapon, some fill it with energy enchantments, some avoid them.
And this is in a system where you can commonly expect to upgrade the sword over the course of the campaign with an ever-balooning budget. A 8k sword may be expensive at first, but by theend it becomes chump change. In minecraft, and xp pont is an xp point, and there is a linear relation between time spent getting xp and your total xp. So with that type of a system, going from a +9 to a+10 would be going from 178 xp to 200xp, a gap which oculd eb used to enchant a fresh +3 item. You also have a full set of armour, tools, and swords to enchant. so, if you only care about pick, boots, greaves, chestplate, helm, sword, you have 6 items you can enchant. You could get a single +10 item for 200, or split it up, and get 6 +4s, with some xp left over. And its not just a matter of saving up more xp. These are all temporary bonuses. You spend the +10 on your sword, and you'll have a kickass sword, but you could have 5 other effects in play. How much experience can you gain before you use up your items? if you are enchanting for more than that, you will be lacking enchanted gear part of the time. If you enchant below that, you can maintain lower level boosts on all of your gear.
If you really wanted to, you could save up the 1200 levels to encahnt everything to +10, and be completely awesome. But that isa lot of effort for a temporary bonus.
It is perfectly feasible to balance choice with cost. That is the principle on which capitilism is based. you can offer a wide range of qualities, and if they are at an approriate price, there will be someone who buys it. That is why you can have pitiful off-brand mac and cheese, krafts macaroni and cheese, and fancy beaked macaraoni and cheese, and have them all sell. Sure, if everything was equal, the fancy mac and cheese may be everyones first choice. But if they are priced appropriately, people will spend money on what they want. If they buy the fancy mac and cheese, they won't be able to spend the money on something else, and hence will consider the decision, and may buy the cheap mac and cheese. Some people may simply liek kraft's mac and cheese better, and buy it anyways.
It is true that if the price of these items is insignificant to the person, they will simply get the highest quality goods. But we are in the context of a game. We know what is a significant or insignificant price. You can easily make it expensive enough that no-one will consider it a trivial price. Well, unless they are hacking in experience, in which case none of this matters anyways.
All of economics and game design says it is possible. You don't need random chance.
Yes, it's gibberish
Wow! My first 46. Thanks a ton.
Efficiency III, Fortune II :biggrin.gif:
Smite V + Fire Aspect II on my sword from a 44.
WOOT! I need to go kill some **** now.
On creative mode, in The End, with a diamond sword flying in the air for infinite critical hits, with no chance of dieing, attacking giant crowds of endermen at a time, it took me 3 hours to get a measly 20 exp. I must reiterate, I was BASICALLY CHEATING, and it took 3 hours to get 20. This is too difficult. Sure, the rewards are great, but that is ignoring the final barrier to success. A randomized system that could very well eat your experience and give you squat.
People are saying that, while the names are randomly generated, a certain name will always give the same effects in the same world (e.g., I have an enchantment called Spirit Darkness Twist that gives Knockback I on swords. That name will always give me Knockback I. But, if I were to start a new world, Spirit Darkness Twist could give an entirely different enchantment.)
I don't know if this has actually been proven yet.
I do agree that there needs to be a more accurate way to get enchantments. Even if what I said is true, it's still mostly guess work to get a decent enchantment. It's a waste of EXP.
I'd also like a way to remove enchantments (is there one?). If I get a crappy enchantment on my diamond sword and I want to reroll, I shouldn't have to waste precious diamonds.
Also, where is the enchanting love for fishing rods, bows (or arrows), and hoes?
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Would be highly overpowered if you got to pick the enchants. They are extremely powerful, wouldn't be fair to get them so easily and effortlessly. :wink.gif:.
what about set enchantments like:
Enchantment: The Klaatu Xyzzy
Efficiency II
+ Random
+ Random
Then you can make them more expensive and/or slightly less powerful. Or limit the number of enchantments to one per item. Or (Like I said) make so cost is based on tier. It could be based on tier of the item and tier of enchantments.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
That's actually the part I'm most concerned about. Multiple enchants easily available. Multi-enchants should be hard to find, especially good ones. Those are the game breaking ones. Throw Silk Touch and Unbreaking IV together and that thing will last you a VERY long time, then save you thousands of coal on smelting cobble, potentially. The only fair way, is completely random in my book. If it wasn't, it'd have to be more expensive, but that's what potions are for.
Potions will be the ones you can craft specific to your needs, expensive materials and niche purposes backed with a ton of research from people finding how to make the most overpowered potions possible :tongue.gif:.
Edit: You CAN!
I just gave a blaze rod Fire Enchantment. Now, it's like a magical item!
This is perfect for my adventure map!
Now to see if arrows or the bow needs fire enchantment for fire arrows
Completely random is the oppisite of fair.
Person A gets 500 experience, makes 10 level 50 swords, and faisl to get what he wants
Person B gets 50 experience, makes 1 sword, and gets the ultimate sword on his first try.
How is that fair? Making it random is making it more expensive on average, but without the guarantee that you will actualyl get anything, and the potential that you get it really cheaply. Thats not balanced. Make it more expensive, sure. Make it so multiple enchantments cost extra. But completely random chance is not good.
Random is fair because everyone has the same chance to find good stuff. And that everyone doesn't find good stuff necessarily. If everyone could CHOOSE to ALWAYS get good stuff, that would be boring and overpowered, even if it costs more, if you have a 100% chance to get good ****, it's too powerful with these stats.
Exactly. The problem here is for such an exorbitant cost you could wind up with total crap. I don't mind the cost, I'll even pay more. But I should be able to pick the enchantments, or at least the first one. It's my experience, my single player world, and I put the effort into getting the levels. I should be able to spend it on what I want.
Hell, restrict me to one enchant per item, that's fine by me.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Edit: Oops, overread that it was already mentioned.
Pre_2 Jumping. I was walking grass from the surface (65) to my underground pasture (19) I checked on it often, which had me jumping up a ton of stairs. Not to mention old (quake)habits die hard and my thumb just kinda rests on the spacebar :tongue.gif:
derp. forgot all about that.
Edit: I only hacked my level after seeing no increase after killing a lot of zombies
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Everyone having the same chance means that beforehand, it is fair, but after you have made the determination you are locked into an unfair situation.
If everything costs an appropriate amount, then it is balanced. Sure, one guy may save up xp to get the really expensive, awesome item. But joe could get the more affordable item sooner and be reaping its benefits.
If a smite IV does 4 hearts extra damage(I have no clue of what the actual values are) and costs 16 levels, and a smite V deals 5 hearts and costs 25 levels, is it really worth it to get that extra heart of damage for over 150% cost?
And say multiple enchantments doubles the value.
So smite IV is 16 levels, and smite IV Fire aspect II costs 40k, and a smite V fire aspect V costs 100
Is it really worth all of that extra cost for that bonus? I'd say that if you are spending 100 levels on an item, you should get something pretty awesome.
Lets look at D&D. it has a large list of weapon enchantments, generally rated into tiers or +1, +2,+3,+4,or +5. 1d6 fire damage is +1, a vorpal sword that beheads enemies 5% of the time is +5.
You can also enchant it with a genral +, which simply increases accuracy and damage.
You total all of the enchantments on the sword, and get a total value, with a max limit of +10. so, you can have a +1 flaming sword, and it is effecitvelt a +2 weapon, which costs 8k. you you could get a +1 flaming smiting holy vorpal sword as a +10 weapon, and it costs 200k.
Now, if you are right, and people would just get the best sword possible, regardless of cost, everyone would have the same weapon. But that is not the case. Some people buy a vorpal weapons, other get a flaming vmapiric weapon, some fill it with energy enchantments, some avoid them.
And this is in a system where you can commonly expect to upgrade the sword over the course of the campaign with an ever-balooning budget. A 8k sword may be expensive at first, but by theend it becomes chump change. In minecraft, and xp pont is an xp point, and there is a linear relation between time spent getting xp and your total xp. So with that type of a system, going from a +9 to a+10 would be going from 178 xp to 200xp, a gap which oculd eb used to enchant a fresh +3 item. You also have a full set of armour, tools, and swords to enchant. so, if you only care about pick, boots, greaves, chestplate, helm, sword, you have 6 items you can enchant. You could get a single +10 item for 200, or split it up, and get 6 +4s, with some xp left over. And its not just a matter of saving up more xp. These are all temporary bonuses. You spend the +10 on your sword, and you'll have a kickass sword, but you could have 5 other effects in play. How much experience can you gain before you use up your items? if you are enchanting for more than that, you will be lacking enchanted gear part of the time. If you enchant below that, you can maintain lower level boosts on all of your gear.
If you really wanted to, you could save up the 1200 levels to encahnt everything to +10, and be completely awesome. But that isa lot of effort for a temporary bonus.
It is perfectly feasible to balance choice with cost. That is the principle on which capitilism is based. you can offer a wide range of qualities, and if they are at an approriate price, there will be someone who buys it. That is why you can have pitiful off-brand mac and cheese, krafts macaroni and cheese, and fancy beaked macaraoni and cheese, and have them all sell. Sure, if everything was equal, the fancy mac and cheese may be everyones first choice. But if they are priced appropriately, people will spend money on what they want. If they buy the fancy mac and cheese, they won't be able to spend the money on something else, and hence will consider the decision, and may buy the cheap mac and cheese. Some people may simply liek kraft's mac and cheese better, and buy it anyways.
It is true that if the price of these items is insignificant to the person, they will simply get the highest quality goods. But we are in the context of a game. We know what is a significant or insignificant price. You can easily make it expensive enough that no-one will consider it a trivial price. Well, unless they are hacking in experience, in which case none of this matters anyways.
All of economics and game design says it is possible. You don't need random chance.