As you can see, the people who edit the wiki don't have enough data on whether, let's say, you can get spider eyes in a mob grinder. Has anyone gotten a spider eye from their grinder? I currently do not have one set up, so I cannot test this. Any help would be wonderful!
Seeing as all the other mob drops aren't any different (i.e.finding random arrows and bones on the ground since a skelly burnt to death),I'd say that spider eyes also drop from mob grinders.
Edit:It seems that the wiki says that they don't drop on death by natural causes.This is most likely a bug,but if it's not,I guess we'll have to murder some spiders ourselves when we want some potions.
Notch planned to make nothing drop if not killed by a player, so to stop grinders and such.
I see this as a first step, personally.
I don't think he's following through with that, it seems it'll just be experience that's not dropped so far.
Mob grinders as much as I think of them as illegitimate are kinda staple for a few people, I don't understand why, but I think they've put up enough noise to be heard and understood.
I have one, but I don't really go there as much now, all I ever needed were feathers and arrows, and now you get arrows back, I'm pretty happy with it not functioning after the attack of the 1.8 Endermen - thought it was some delicious irony there, for the greater good and all :tongue.gif:
hahaha x] see, -that- was the endermen's true purpose!
save the mobs!!!
I think mob traps are great when used like traps. Making a drowning trap then walking 30 blocks away to the collection point and going afk for 12 hours is not really a trap. But rigging a castle wall to double as a vertical drown trap for when they get too close....That is a trap. Having to go down and kill every mob that gets too close would be kind of annoying, and would take away that special moment I feel when I check a trap and it has a few gunpowders. I hope if Mojang nerfs traps in anyway, its purely to keep xp from dropping in them.
If grinders get "nerfed" (actually notch was asked on a video not long ago, doesn't mind them) then monsters burning in sunlight and endermen death via water should also not drop anything. Both are a natural occurrence.
I don't think he's following through with that, it seems it'll just be experience that's not dropped so far.
Mob grinders as much as I think of them as illegitimate are kinda staple for a few people, I don't understand why, but I think they've put up enough noise to be heard and understood.
What is illegitimate about mob grinders, they are playing smart not hard. The investment is in the planning and execution. You don't just magic up a mob grinder hell in most cases unless you build it on a spawner they don't even make a decent return on investment.
The fun is in the planning and building stages same with complex redstone.
Or you could look at it this way, you can either choose to hunt for your supper or you can set traps and let your supper come to you.
Mind you I still enjoy running around actively slaughtering things and like I said most of the fun in grinders is the planning, I have built several and enjoyed every singe one.... once I'm finished I almost never bother checking them. Still every once and a while when I find myself running low on supplies a grinder has come through with a few extra arrows or some "animal products".
If anything I'd be concerned that it sounds like some potions will be infinitely dilutable so you only have to make them once and poof infinite (insert series of effects here)
What is illegitimate about mob grinders, they are playing smart not hard. The investment is in the planning and execution. You don't just magic up a mob grinder hell in most cases unless you build it on a spawner they don't even make a decent return on investment.
The fun is in the planning and building stages same with complex redstone.
Or you could look at it this way, you can either choose to hunt for your supper or you can set traps and let your supper come to you.
Mind you I still enjoy running around actively slaughtering things and like I said most of the fun in grinders is the planning, I have built several and enjoyed every singe one.... once I'm finished I almost never bother checking them. Still every once and a while when I find myself running low on supplies a grinder has come through with a few extra arrows or some "animal products".
If anything I'd be concerned that it sounds like some potions will be infinitely dilutable so you only have to make them once and poof infinite (insert series of effects here)
the problem is they destroy what was meant to be accessed through normal gameplay, mob drops aren't meant to be something you have unlimited access to. it unbalances it, but as it does require a lot of work it's not something I would go out of my way to stop. But it's far from intended gameplay and that is obvious.
the problem is they destroy what was meant to be accessed through normal gameplay, mob drops aren't meant to be something you have unlimited access to. it unbalances it, but as it does require a lot of work it's not something I would go out of my way to stop. But it's far from intended gameplay and that is obvious.
how do you unbalance minecraft? theres no point to it yet
and also, how do you know what the "intended gameplay is?"
minecraft
1:mine
2:mine
3:craft
additionally, mobs are something you are supposed to have unlimited access to, thats whay they spawn indefinitely
how do you unbalance minecraft? theres no point to it yet
and also, how do you know what the "intended gameplay is?"
minecraft
1:mine
2:mine
3:craft
additionally, mobs are something you are supposed to have unlimited access to, thats whay they spawn indefinitely
I feel someone is just trying to be stubborn here, if you were meant to just go and gather the resources from mobs they would just have been like ores, static, they're not, they come from monsters who try and attack you.
I feel someone is just trying to be stubborn here, if you were meant to just go and gather the resources from mobs they would just have been like ores, static, they're not, they come from monsters who try and attack you.
so youre saying that youre not supposed to kill skeletons for bones? or creepers for gunpowder?
the problem is they destroy what was meant to be accessed through normal gameplay, mob drops aren't meant to be something you have unlimited access to. it unbalances it, but as it does require a lot of work it's not something I would go out of my way to stop. But it's far from intended gameplay and that is obvious.
I both do, and do not understand the common argument against mob grinders.
Thing is, for something like a mob trap, it's not illegitimate/a cheat since something illegitimate would usually give you a lot of payback for very little effort, lies outside the limits of the game or is a preprogrammed response to a specific "cheat code"; a mob trap takes time and planning to build effectively, and the due diligence afforded it's construction reflects in the amount of output it has; Sure, you could run around on the overworld killing these eneemies yourself with your bare hands, but at the same time, it's no different then ancient man; if you went back in time and gave them guns, they wouldn't throw them away and say "we don't cheat, we hunt fair" because In real life there is no such thing as a "cheat" and damn near anything is fair game; this is particularly true in matters of survival; the idea would be for humans to try to survive by exposin themselves to as little danger as possible; they wouldn't throw down their bows and arrows and challenge a mastadon to fisticuffs in the interest of "fairplay" they'd pelt the ****er with as many arrows as it takes to get the thing on the ground so they can kill it. My point is, that's pretty much what people building mob traps are doing- the exact same thing that humans do. We try to understand our environment and then we manipulate it- in this case, the mob spawning behaviour is manipulated to get returns without exposing oneself to danger.
In real life there is no such thing as a "cheat" and damn near anything is fair game; this is particularly true in matters of survival; the idea would be for humans to try to survive by exposin themselves to as little danger as possible; they wouldn't throw down their bows and arrows and challenge a mastadon to fisticuffs in the interest of "fairplay" they'd pelt the ****er with as many arrows as it takes to get the thing on the ground so they can kill it. My point is, that's pretty much what people building mob traps are doing- the exact same thing that humans do. We try to understand our environment and then we manipulate it- in this case, the mob spawning behaviour is manipulated to get returns without exposing oneself to danger.
I think that's one thing that's really great about Minecraft currently. Mob grinders, for the most part, are an excellent way of adapting a situation to suit you. The dungeon spawners are a negative at first. They spawn gobs and gobs of monsters and fling them out to kill the player. However, a player is able to take that negative and turn it in to a positive. Should the player be able to get experience from a grinder? No, because that would be very imbalanced and make leveling pointless. However, taking a skeleton spawner and making it in to an arrow and bone generator is pretty awesome in terms of gameplay.
That's pretty much what most games are about. You take a challenge, you overcome it, and you're rewarded. At some point, you really shouldn't have to be grinding skeletons out at night because you need arrows, or digging gravel/killing chickens/chopping wood and crafting them.
What is illegitimate about mob grinders, they are playing smart not hard. The investment is in the planning and execution. You don't just magic up a mob grinder hell in most cases unless you build it on a spawner they don't even make a decent return on investment.
The fun is in the planning and building stages same with complex redstone.
Or you could look at it this way, you can either choose to hunt for your supper or you can set traps and let your supper come to you.
Mind you I still enjoy running around actively slaughtering things and like I said most of the fun in grinders is the planning, I have built several and enjoyed every singe one.... once I'm finished I almost never bother checking them. Still every once and a while when I find myself running low on supplies a grinder has come through with a few extra arrows or some "animal products".
If anything I'd be concerned that it sounds like some potions will be infinitely dilutable so you only have to make them once and poof infinite (insert series of effects here)
Its not so much that they are illegitimate, as that they are unbalanced. It is because they are legitimate that this is an issue. In particular, skeletons. Arrows especially. One downside to the bow is supposed to be limited ammo. In normal gameplay, skeletons do not drop enough arrows for you to use the bow as your main weapon. If that is an edge you want, you have to put forth the time to harvest flint, harvest fatehrs, and create stacks of arrows. A mob grinder completely circumvents that. It may have a high start-up cost, but when you can leave the game running for a month and get more arrows that you know what to do with, the investment/return ratio flips. Suddenyl ,bows are essentially free to use, deal awesome damage, at range, and all downsides flit away in the wind.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for encouraging creativity and turning opposition into an advantage. I'm not even really against mob grinders. Its just that mob grinders provide access to high volumes of resources that should be limited. Lets suppose minecraft does get bosses. a clever player may set up a tnt cannon to assualt the boss with. Now, that is creative and I have no problem with it. But normally, a TNT cannon would be a significant resource investment. You would have to kill a lot of creepers, and build up a sizeable pile of gunpowder. Doable, but it takes effort. Its not something you will do casually. however, once you have built a mob grinder, gunpowder is no longer a limiting factor. Sure, it may have been easier just to kill the creepers to make the one TNT cannon. but now, you aren't just limited to making one. You can use TNT everywhere, easily.
In a short-term game, the high startup cost of a grinder could balance it against gathering the resources by hand. That would be perfectly reasonable. However, minecraft is not a short-term game. it is a long-term game, and in the long run, resources without an incremental cost are unbalanced.
Some resources are meant to be farmable. Reeds, wheat, meat, cacti... you are meant to be able to get them in large quantities. It is not unbalancing to the game to do so. However, other resources are, and they are not naturally farmable. It is grinders that take the resource and move it into the farmable category, and hence create the disruption.
This will be even more true if people start farming potion ingredients. Those ingredients are meant to be a reward for combat. After going out and defeating a variety of enemies, you can convert them into temporary buffs. If those resources are no longer limited, you lose the cap on potions, and end up with semi-permament buffs as you always have the potion efffect in play.
As you can see, the people who edit the wiki don't have enough data on whether, let's say, you can get spider eyes in a mob grinder. Has anyone gotten a spider eye from their grinder? I currently do not have one set up, so I cannot test this. Any help would be wonderful!
Edit:It seems that the wiki says that they don't drop on death by natural causes.This is most likely a bug,but if it's not,I guess we'll have to murder some spiders ourselves when we want some potions.
--Edit: on topic, it seems very much anecdotal, until otherwise I'd consider it false.
I don't think he's following through with that, it seems it'll just be experience that's not dropped so far.
Mob grinders as much as I think of them as illegitimate are kinda staple for a few people, I don't understand why, but I think they've put up enough noise to be heard and understood.
hahaha x] see, -that- was the endermen's true purpose!
save the mobs!!!
Might actually make sense though in SMP (But it is fun collecting materials after every mob dies at sunrise, well the undead).
I'd support the whole "no drop if grinder" thing, but generally it would mean using cactus walls or pitfall traps useless.
(That also means wasting arrows or using anything sort of a sword to beat up creepers, not like you'd fight them without one anyway).
Latest MC video (forum link): http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/show-your-creation/videos/lets-plays/2390805
What is illegitimate about mob grinders, they are playing smart not hard. The investment is in the planning and execution. You don't just magic up a mob grinder hell in most cases unless you build it on a spawner they don't even make a decent return on investment.
The fun is in the planning and building stages same with complex redstone.
Or you could look at it this way, you can either choose to hunt for your supper or you can set traps and let your supper come to you.
Mind you I still enjoy running around actively slaughtering things and like I said most of the fun in grinders is the planning, I have built several and enjoyed every singe one.... once I'm finished I almost never bother checking them. Still every once and a while when I find myself running low on supplies a grinder has come through with a few extra arrows or some "animal products".
If anything I'd be concerned that it sounds like some potions will be infinitely dilutable so you only have to make them once and poof infinite (insert series of effects here)
the problem is they destroy what was meant to be accessed through normal gameplay, mob drops aren't meant to be something you have unlimited access to. it unbalances it, but as it does require a lot of work it's not something I would go out of my way to stop. But it's far from intended gameplay and that is obvious.
how do you unbalance minecraft? theres no point to it yet
and also, how do you know what the "intended gameplay is?"
minecraft
1:mine
2:mine
3:craft
additionally, mobs are something you are supposed to have unlimited access to, thats whay they spawn indefinitely
I feel someone is just trying to be stubborn here, if you were meant to just go and gather the resources from mobs they would just have been like ores, static, they're not, they come from monsters who try and attack you.
so youre saying that youre not supposed to kill skeletons for bones? or creepers for gunpowder?
Obviously that's exactly what I said, in those exact words, you're good.
now that you resort to being a smartass that shows that i won this little debate, thanks
You're right, you win.
I both do, and do not understand the common argument against mob grinders.
Thing is, for something like a mob trap, it's not illegitimate/a cheat since something illegitimate would usually give you a lot of payback for very little effort, lies outside the limits of the game or is a preprogrammed response to a specific "cheat code"; a mob trap takes time and planning to build effectively, and the due diligence afforded it's construction reflects in the amount of output it has; Sure, you could run around on the overworld killing these eneemies yourself with your bare hands, but at the same time, it's no different then ancient man; if you went back in time and gave them guns, they wouldn't throw them away and say "we don't cheat, we hunt fair" because In real life there is no such thing as a "cheat" and damn near anything is fair game; this is particularly true in matters of survival; the idea would be for humans to try to survive by exposin themselves to as little danger as possible; they wouldn't throw down their bows and arrows and challenge a mastadon to fisticuffs in the interest of "fairplay" they'd pelt the ****er with as many arrows as it takes to get the thing on the ground so they can kill it. My point is, that's pretty much what people building mob traps are doing- the exact same thing that humans do. We try to understand our environment and then we manipulate it- in this case, the mob spawning behaviour is manipulated to get returns without exposing oneself to danger.
I think that's one thing that's really great about Minecraft currently. Mob grinders, for the most part, are an excellent way of adapting a situation to suit you. The dungeon spawners are a negative at first. They spawn gobs and gobs of monsters and fling them out to kill the player. However, a player is able to take that negative and turn it in to a positive. Should the player be able to get experience from a grinder? No, because that would be very imbalanced and make leveling pointless. However, taking a skeleton spawner and making it in to an arrow and bone generator is pretty awesome in terms of gameplay.
That's pretty much what most games are about. You take a challenge, you overcome it, and you're rewarded. At some point, you really shouldn't have to be grinding skeletons out at night because you need arrows, or digging gravel/killing chickens/chopping wood and crafting them.
Its not so much that they are illegitimate, as that they are unbalanced. It is because they are legitimate that this is an issue. In particular, skeletons. Arrows especially. One downside to the bow is supposed to be limited ammo. In normal gameplay, skeletons do not drop enough arrows for you to use the bow as your main weapon. If that is an edge you want, you have to put forth the time to harvest flint, harvest fatehrs, and create stacks of arrows. A mob grinder completely circumvents that. It may have a high start-up cost, but when you can leave the game running for a month and get more arrows that you know what to do with, the investment/return ratio flips. Suddenyl ,bows are essentially free to use, deal awesome damage, at range, and all downsides flit away in the wind.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for encouraging creativity and turning opposition into an advantage. I'm not even really against mob grinders. Its just that mob grinders provide access to high volumes of resources that should be limited. Lets suppose minecraft does get bosses. a clever player may set up a tnt cannon to assualt the boss with. Now, that is creative and I have no problem with it. But normally, a TNT cannon would be a significant resource investment. You would have to kill a lot of creepers, and build up a sizeable pile of gunpowder. Doable, but it takes effort. Its not something you will do casually. however, once you have built a mob grinder, gunpowder is no longer a limiting factor. Sure, it may have been easier just to kill the creepers to make the one TNT cannon. but now, you aren't just limited to making one. You can use TNT everywhere, easily.
In a short-term game, the high startup cost of a grinder could balance it against gathering the resources by hand. That would be perfectly reasonable. However, minecraft is not a short-term game. it is a long-term game, and in the long run, resources without an incremental cost are unbalanced.
Some resources are meant to be farmable. Reeds, wheat, meat, cacti... you are meant to be able to get them in large quantities. It is not unbalancing to the game to do so. However, other resources are, and they are not naturally farmable. It is grinders that take the resource and move it into the farmable category, and hence create the disruption.
This will be even more true if people start farming potion ingredients. Those ingredients are meant to be a reward for combat. After going out and defeating a variety of enemies, you can convert them into temporary buffs. If those resources are no longer limited, you lose the cap on potions, and end up with semi-permament buffs as you always have the potion efffect in play.