If there's problems with the biome terrain code, you can expect a change even after October 18.
Stuff like "snow deletes rails" and "oops I forgot to add back roses and wolves"
I favour a periodic restart with a fresh world. Most people on our server do not mind trying their hand at building something new, settling in a different type of landscape, exploring new lands. So far the biggest complaints on our new 1.8 world have come from the one guy who stays at home all day and builds gigantic, impenetrable castles that blot out the sun and dominate the landscape. I don't think it took him long to discover that things change, and he lost no time in building a massive stone-brick castle bridging three mountain peaks.
As far as chunk border issues go, it sucks. People have found some creative ways of dealing with chunk stepoffs for instance. But like Notch said, keep in mind we should not encourage players to get attached to any one building, or world, or item, or element in the game.
The issue at hand is not everyone has an endless amount of time to build the mammoth structures. Plus gathering the materials to construct anything can take some time. Sure you can just spawn in an endless amount of items, but some people don't like to play like that. Seems rather pointless in my opinion.
Periodic resets are fine, but every other update would be annoying. I believe all Rayvolution is inquiring about is whether any additional major chunk generation changes are planned beyond 1.9 or 1.10 so his players can have an idea when they can finally start building some epic structures without having to worry about them being wiped a month later.
Lets assume you do want to have a steady main area. The backup idea I proposed allow you to maintain the building area and the area around it in pristine condition. you can keep that, and let people build whatever they feel like, secure that it will be kept as long as is needed.
You then create a nether transit hub leading to a new section of map, and connect it to the main world when the terrain generator does something you think is worth accessing. This allows relatively easy access to the new content, preserves your old lands, avoids ugly chunk errors.
Furthermore, if you declare that those regions are temporary, and anything built there is built with the understanding that it may be deleted, you can clear that section of the world when the generation changes, and preserve your nether transit.
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Actually, if you think about it, the attitude of "he shouldn't update the map generation because then I'll want to generate a new map" is kinda silly.
Case 1:
Notch adds new terrain generation code. You do not update, and miss out on the new content.
Case 2:
Notch does not add new terrain generation code. Everybody misses out on the new content since he didn't make it.
Hence, forbidding him from updating the map generator is a selfish "misery loves company" move.
The idea of having an 1.8 'Old World' portaled to a 1.9/1.10 'New World' is an interesting way to preserve the structures, at only the cost of limiting accessibility to any new, unique items for those people who are in their predefined 'grid' on his server. May be something worth the sacrifice. The players would have to make the call, but it is at least one potentially reasonable 'solution' to resolve the structure loss issue.
As an aside, the position isn't that "Notch shouldn't update the map generation because then I'll want to generate a new map", but rather "I wish Notch would be able to tell us if it will require a map reset so we can plan appropriately to reduce the impact on our players", something I appreciate in a server admin (even if he holds himself to rather high standards and tends to through the word 'kiddie' around where others don't meet those same expectations.)
Lets assume you do want to have a steady main area. The backup idea I proposed allow you to maintain the building area and the area around it in pristine condition. you can keep that, and let people build whatever they feel like, secure that it will be kept as long as is needed.
You then create a nether transit hub leading to a new section of map, and connect it to the main world when the terrain generator does something you think is worth accessing. This allows relatively easy access to the new content, preserves your old lands, avoids ugly chunk errors.
Furthermore, if you declare that those regions are temporary, and anything built there is built with the understanding that it may be deleted, you can clear that section of the world when the generation changes, and preserve your nether transit.
-----------
Actually, if you think about it, the attitude of "he shouldn't update the map generation because then I'll want to generate a new map" is kinda silly.
Case 1:
Notch adds new terrain generation code. You do not update, and miss out on the new content.
Case 2:
Notch does not add new terrain generation code. Everybody misses out on the new content since he didn't make it.
Hence, forbidding him from updating the map generator is a selfish "misery loves company" move.
You're missing my point.
There's nothing wrong with adding new content to the map, he did it several times all the way up to 1.7 without requiring a new map to be generated. The terrain stayed the same, we just got little perks like pumpkins, tall grass, more flowers, etc.
The issue isn't new content, it's the entire seed/biome generation. *That* is the problem. Small changes that continue to retain the map's core terrain layout is fine, it allows servers everywhere to keep the same map without doing anything drastic (and usually down right retarded) to save their map. The problem lies when he totally changes the map code to the point your old seed basically doesn't exist anymore, and basically makes all the old maps for the most part totally obsolete unless you really don't mind massive chunk generation oddities. Something a lot of servers will not tolerate.
Just because there's a work around, doesn't mean it's a good work around. 2 dozen workarounds down the road and you'll have a huge mess of a ugly map. No one wants that.
I want him to finalize the terrain/biome code, he can add all the new content he wants, just leave finish the terrain generation itself and leave it that way.
There's nothing wrong with adding new content to the map, he did it several times all the way up to 1.7 without requiring a new map to be generated. The terrain stayed the same, we just got little perks like pumpkins, tall grass, more flowers, etc.
The issue isn't new content, it's the entire seed/biome generation. *That* is the problem. Small changes that continue to retain the map's core terrain layout is fine, it allows servers everywhere to keep the same map without doing anything drastic (and usually down right retarded) to save their map. The problem lies when he totally changes the map code to the point your old seed basically doesn't exist anymore, and basically makes all the old maps for the most part totally obsolete unless you really don't mind massive chunk generation oddities. Something a lot of servers will not tolerate.
Just because there's a work around, doesn't mean it's a good work around. 2 dozen workarounds down the road and you'll have a huge mess of a ugly map. No one wants that.
I want him to finalize the terrain/biome code, he can add all the new content he wants, just leave finish the terrain generation itself and leave it that way.
If you are happy with how the terrain generation is, keep it as it is and don't generate new map over it. Don't forbid him from ever touching it again if he gets an awesome idea.
I believe it's pretty much done, but things that spawn in the terrain, like the specific items in chests, will almost definitely be changed.
That's what I'm hoping for, that the terrain generation is basically completed and any new additions won't change the entire seed.
My worry is, he wants to add several new biomes, like volcanoes for example. Obviously even one biome change changes everything (The 1.9 seeds are totally different now because of the addition of just the Mushroom biomes and snow biomes).
So, lets hope he finalizes the big parts that change everything in 1.9.
Well, lets hope that whatever the state of the biomes are by October 18th is indeed the final version. Changing the generation system isn't a big deal for the single player guys (or the kiddie servers) but it's a huge deal for us server admins. :/
Eventually you'll have to stick with a world you like anyway, I would hate the idea that after the full version Notch will not be able to make any changes to terrain gen. That's what we get for having procedurally generated worlds.
I think as an extremely valuable and knowledgeable member of the community, close to Notch's heart and ears that I can say with confidence maybe and maybe not.
Fortunately by posting your query here at the heart of Minecraft lore, this highly erudite and effective place of discourse, where the wisdom of Notch is poured directly into the brains of participants that you can be certain that there will be...erm uncertainties going forward and Notch told me that to tell you.
So, lets hope he finalizes the big parts that change everything in 1.9.
Never going to happen. Notch has been quite open about his goal to keep adding things to the game after release, and this will include changes to the terrain generator.
The best you can hope for is that he separates out the terrain generator from the game code so that you could run any version of map but get access to other new features.
I hope he keeps changing and tweaking the biome/terrain generation until he feel's it it perfect. I'd hate for progress to be impeded due to an arrogant douche.
I hope there are more changes in store. We got some new biomes, but lost a lot of variation within each biome - topography primarily. The vegetation and climate need work too (oceans and mountains are barren, snow only falls in one biome).
I'd expect more changes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Why doesn't Notch just implement a terrain reconciliation feature into the code? This could be done a few ways, either auto-magically in the algorithm by having each chunk remember which version it was generated in and then smoothing the next one or two chunks outwards to the new terrain. Or, just add in an additional feature to the code that will generate the next 3 chunks around all borders, two being the buffer and the last being the new terrain, thus giving us smooth terrain without the shear cliffs that often plague maps from update to update of terrain generation code.
Yes, this could mean recreating the map LATER might be impossible due to the way the game evaluates the seed, but it would allow you the option of smooth edges at either current ones at time of generation, or deleting all undeveloped land and then smoothing from there allowing new features in the terrain/biome generation to be closer to where players are. Of course, deleting the chunks would require an outside editor of some sort as I don't see Notch implementing one of these.
Of course...a mod could also do this instead of Notch.
The issue isn't new content, it's the entire seed/biome generation. *That* is the problem. Small changes that continue to retain the map's core terrain layout is fine, it allows servers everywhere to keep the same map without doing anything drastic (and usually down right retarded) to save their map. The problem lies when he totally changes the map code to the point your old seed basically doesn't exist anymore, and basically makes all the old maps for the most part totally obsolete unless you really don't mind massive chunk generation oddities. Something a lot of servers will not tolerate.
What are you talking about? It doesn't take tons of updates to the Terrain Generator engine to change a seed-it takes 1. One algorithm change changes the whole way seeds are created, hence new seeds. Will not tolerate? They don't have a choice. Their playerbase probably demands updates anyway, so your point is moot.
im not saying this is supposed to work like so but i think the "naked mountain" are volcano biome. i took a picture on my workd i made and this is what i think volcano could/should look like
I think this is something a lot of serious server admins need an answer to. Is the terrain generation going to be completed in 1.9? Or, at least to a point a full map reset isn't required for 1.10 and beyond?
I am an admin (somewhere) and you will be happy to know that I am privy to some exclusive information. You must be so excited to hear the news. That's right, any second now you are going to find out this amazing piece of information. I can assure you that my sources claim that this information is 100% accurate.
...
...
Okay, are you ready now?
...
...
I can hardly contain my anticipation, somebody get my heart medicine!
I am only an Admin on the server I play but whenever a new world-changing feature is release, we need a new world and it can get very irritating losing all of your work.
And then getting "flamed" for the result of said problems.
Actually you don't need a new world each time a new feature is released. Even if you did need a new world, you could at least put a little effort into transferring your people's structures with MCEdit. Your people are "flaming" you because you are a bad administrator. Which server do you run so we can avoid it?
The issue at hand is not everyone has an endless amount of time to build the mammoth structures. Plus gathering the materials to construct anything can take some time. Sure you can just spawn in an endless amount of items, but some people don't like to play like that. Seems rather pointless in my opinion.
Periodic resets are fine, but every other update would be annoying. I believe all Rayvolution is inquiring about is whether any additional major chunk generation changes are planned beyond 1.9 or 1.10 so his players can have an idea when they can finally start building some epic structures without having to worry about them being wiped a month later.
You then create a nether transit hub leading to a new section of map, and connect it to the main world when the terrain generator does something you think is worth accessing. This allows relatively easy access to the new content, preserves your old lands, avoids ugly chunk errors.
Furthermore, if you declare that those regions are temporary, and anything built there is built with the understanding that it may be deleted, you can clear that section of the world when the generation changes, and preserve your nether transit.
-----------
Actually, if you think about it, the attitude of "he shouldn't update the map generation because then I'll want to generate a new map" is kinda silly.
Case 1:
Notch adds new terrain generation code. You do not update, and miss out on the new content.
Case 2:
Notch does not add new terrain generation code. Everybody misses out on the new content since he didn't make it.
Hence, forbidding him from updating the map generator is a selfish "misery loves company" move.
The idea of having an 1.8 'Old World' portaled to a 1.9/1.10 'New World' is an interesting way to preserve the structures, at only the cost of limiting accessibility to any new, unique items for those people who are in their predefined 'grid' on his server. May be something worth the sacrifice. The players would have to make the call, but it is at least one potentially reasonable 'solution' to resolve the structure loss issue.
As an aside, the position isn't that "Notch shouldn't update the map generation because then I'll want to generate a new map", but rather "I wish Notch would be able to tell us if it will require a map reset so we can plan appropriately to reduce the impact on our players", something I appreciate in a server admin (even if he holds himself to rather high standards and tends to through the word 'kiddie' around where others don't meet those same expectations.)
You're missing my point.
There's nothing wrong with adding new content to the map, he did it several times all the way up to 1.7 without requiring a new map to be generated. The terrain stayed the same, we just got little perks like pumpkins, tall grass, more flowers, etc.
The issue isn't new content, it's the entire seed/biome generation. *That* is the problem. Small changes that continue to retain the map's core terrain layout is fine, it allows servers everywhere to keep the same map without doing anything drastic (and usually down right retarded) to save their map. The problem lies when he totally changes the map code to the point your old seed basically doesn't exist anymore, and basically makes all the old maps for the most part totally obsolete unless you really don't mind massive chunk generation oddities. Something a lot of servers will not tolerate.
Just because there's a work around, doesn't mean it's a good work around. 2 dozen workarounds down the road and you'll have a huge mess of a ugly map. No one wants that.
I want him to finalize the terrain/biome code, he can add all the new content he wants, just leave finish the terrain generation itself and leave it that way.
If you are happy with how the terrain generation is, keep it as it is and don't generate new map over it. Don't forbid him from ever touching it again if he gets an awesome idea.
You don't even have to do the work yourself, just find someone you trust and give them a wooden axe for a day.
That said I play more when I know I have new things to do than when my Minecraft time will be spent doing regular maintenance on farms and such.
That's what I'm hoping for, that the terrain generation is basically completed and any new additions won't change the entire seed.
My worry is, he wants to add several new biomes, like volcanoes for example. Obviously even one biome change changes everything (The 1.9 seeds are totally different now because of the addition of just the Mushroom biomes and snow biomes).
So, lets hope he finalizes the big parts that change everything in 1.9.
Eventually you'll have to stick with a world you like anyway, I would hate the idea that after the full version Notch will not be able to make any changes to terrain gen. That's what we get for having procedurally generated worlds.
Fortunately by posting your query here at the heart of Minecraft lore, this highly erudite and effective place of discourse, where the wisdom of Notch is poured directly into the brains of participants that you can be certain that there will be...erm uncertainties going forward and Notch told me that to tell you.
350125
Never going to happen. Notch has been quite open about his goal to keep adding things to the game after release, and this will include changes to the terrain generator.
The best you can hope for is that he separates out the terrain generator from the game code so that you could run any version of map but get access to other new features.
I'd expect more changes.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Yes, this could mean recreating the map LATER might be impossible due to the way the game evaluates the seed, but it would allow you the option of smooth edges at either current ones at time of generation, or deleting all undeveloped land and then smoothing from there allowing new features in the terrain/biome generation to be closer to where players are. Of course, deleting the chunks would require an outside editor of some sort as I don't see Notch implementing one of these.
Of course...a mod could also do this instead of Notch.
What are you talking about? It doesn't take tons of updates to the Terrain Generator engine to change a seed-it takes 1. One algorithm change changes the whole way seeds are created, hence new seeds. Will not tolerate? They don't have a choice. Their playerbase probably demands updates anyway, so your point is moot.
You run a serious server on a beta game in development?
Do you realize how insane that is?
That's like walking onto a driving range to clean up the balls before the driving range is closed and being upset when a golf ball hits you.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
I am an admin (somewhere) and you will be happy to know that I am privy to some exclusive information. You must be so excited to hear the news. That's right, any second now you are going to find out this amazing piece of information. I can assure you that my sources claim that this information is 100% accurate.
...
...
Okay, are you ready now?
...
...
I can hardly contain my anticipation, somebody get my heart medicine!
Whew!! Glad we could clear that up.
Actually you don't need a new world each time a new feature is released. Even if you did need a new world, you could at least put a little effort into transferring your people's structures with MCEdit. Your people are "flaming" you because you are a bad administrator. Which server do you run so we can avoid it?