Does anyone know of the potion that makes you mine faster ? I think it's called the Haste potion.
The effect isn't available at this point in time.
Not in my knowledge, anyway - i.e., unless there's been another update.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"DNA - when programming in spam becomes anti-tampering measures." -Self, on DNA
"Just because it's made of an explosive gas and an accelerant doesn't mean water is flammable!" -Self, on a poorly-worded commentary on water.
Well, the old system was much more interesting in terms of needing to mix-and-match to do something "edible". In this new one you basically cannot fail or improvise or get something unexpected.
You put A into B to get C (x 1-3). 22 potions from 30k potions is quite a downgrade.
A possible "minigame", comparable to redstone, has just been discarded to one comparable to making bread or a fetch quest. Still fairly nice, but nowhere like the same. It's also fairly slow, they could shave at least 2 seconds from the brewing time or so. Using a furnace tactic (put stuff, come back later) just doesn't feel adequate when brewing chemicals. (And I don't get the design logic of using time as a balance device when the items are random drops).
(In case my foreign English fails too much, I am not raging or bitchin', just a tiny bit disappointed. I kind of regret not playing with the old system because it required a mod, and now I feel I am missing out)
The old potion system was pretty much the exact oposite of redstone.
AARRGGHHGH!!! I had 51 netherwart and lost it all! i only had one left, which took FOREVER to grow into 2, and i messed up this great potion of speed and made a potion of slowness. itll take FOREVER to recover my netherwart. :angry.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Their taunts echo in my dreams... Mocking him endlessly. "Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids!" WHY COULDN'T THEY JUST GIVE HIM SOME CEREAL?
Well, in some ways, while the old system was more prone to error and apparently random, it was still governed by integer logic, so it's a fairly deterministic system, like redstone is. Once you get something you can always reproduce it, since there is no random element involved.
Perhaps you mean that redstone is more accessible because of its relation with realistic elements (binary logic), but figuring out the various logic gates required as much arcane knowledge as doing the first potions, due to the many quirks and oddities of redstone (like the old N/S "exploit"). To the player that doesn't care that much, it requires a visit to the wiki for redstone, for old potions and for current potions. Who would figure that Nether warts are the only useful "starter" without trying at random (losing time) or hearing from someone else?
Anyway, I liked that with the old system everything did something. Now it's just a scripted sequence of steps to get one specific effect, of which you can barely deviate. Unless the remaining ingredients add that kind of flexibility, I'll consider the current system less interesting. It's also quite slow.
Considering that most players will check the wiki, some tutorial, or hearing from a friend, the only drawbacks of the old system were having to bottle potions to check their effects and the difficulty to stack similar or duplicate potions.
Redstone:
a few simple elements, combined in a logical order, to engineer a specific outcome, with practically infinite possibilities.
Old potions:
a few simple elements, combined in rather arbitrary orders, in the hope of stumbling upon an outcome, with a fairly limited number of interesting outcomes and a few thousand pointless varitations of those outcomes.'
All of the complexity was in the construction process. The end results where not complex. Sure, you can say "Oh, there are billions of possible potions". But really, a speed I 1:15 potion with water breathing 3:00 and a speed I 1:40 potion with water breathign 3:00 are not really different potions. Most of the possible combinations where entropic noise.
If the potions had the same breadth of possible outcomes as redstone, then the complexity could be justified.Granted, the current system is a bit on the simple side, and could be more complex, but it is better than the pointless complexity of the old one. If there was a way to really get unique effects from toying with the potions, it would have been good. But it wasn't. There was a discrete, fairly short list of acheiveable effects, in arbitrary combinations.
Arbitrary is still fixed, it can be documented, and of course it'd be arbitrary, with the ingredients in use you can't expect to do actual chemistry (which is also fairly arbitrary if you don't have prior knowledge. That's why people needs to be told that mixing ammonia and bleach is a no-no).
I would never say there are billions of potions because I know it's just an integer value holding the potion data (assuming 16bit integers, that tops at 65536 or 32768, maybe less), and I think the interesting part was trying to brew the best potion with minimal side effects or with less ingredients.
Anyway, you'd need a list for both systems. The former would be a list of combinations and the current a list of steps. Yet you can only do plain "heal II" potions now, and the process is not really fun because it's very delayed between steps. I'd rather have it use coal than go that slow. And again, it's scripted steps you can't deviate from at all. I'd have taken that if not for the "furnace delay" that is just a bit too long.
Besides, what's with redstone? I love it. You sound like I am bashing it or something.
With this system, there is an apprant relationship between ingredient and effect. The old system had no apparent relationship unless you deconstruct the code, and even then people weren't seeing how to intentionally create a potion.
In java, integers are 32 bit, and hence several billion possibilities are quite feasible.
And tryign to brew the potion with minimal side effects or least ingredients is good... if you can intentionally do it. As it was, throwing random ingredients together and trying to get a good result, does not make developing new potions fun or interesting. You can't even approach it from the angle of" lets add a little bit less netherwart this time", since a minor change to the recipie caused drastic changes. You can't narrow in on the perfect blend. The system had complexity, but lacked depth. Depth is great. Complexity is not. The best systems are simple, with great depth, i.e. redstone. This system was complex and shallow, the oppisite of redstone, and not desireable.
As for the slow brewing, I don't think that is really an issue. You can set up multiple brewing stands, going between them and working on multiple potions. Drop in an ingredient, then go craft things. Drop in an ingredient as you leave base, pick up the result when you return. Drop something in the potions, drop something in the furnace.
I am using redstone as a comparison because it is a good system. I can illustrate the differences between the systems to illuminate why the potion system wasn't that great and why redstone is. People keep comparing the two, when they are very different in key ways.
With this system, there is an apprant relationship between ingredient and effect. The old system had no apparent relationship unless you deconstruct the code, and even then people weren't seeing how to intentionally create a potion.
In java, integers are 32 bit, and hence several billion possibilities are quite feasible.
And tryign to brew the potion with minimal side effects or least ingredients is good... if you can intentionally do it. As it was, throwing random ingredients together and trying to get a good result, does not make developing new potions fun or interesting. You can't even approach it from the angle of" lets add a little bit less netherwart this time", since a minor change to the recipie caused drastic changes. You can't narrow in on the perfect blend. The system had complexity, but lacked depth. Depth is great. Complexity is not. The best systems are simple, with great depth, i.e. redstone. This system was complex and shallow, the oppisite of redstone, and not desireable.
I think this is exactly right. The new system is superior to the old one so long as it's added to correctly. More trade-off ingredients (like Glowstone) need to be added. For example, an ingredient that moves a stat from I to II at the expense of adding hunger or instant damage. Then an ingredient that nullfies (either by duration or level) poison and hunger effects. Haste/weakness and Strength/Mining Fatigue ingredients would be a logical trade-off as well. Pure positive potions should be more time-consuming to brew and more expensive, not merely difficult to find because of seemingly-random bit shifting.
Another way to encourage experimentation would be re-adding a dilution mechanic/ingredient which reduces all effects, forcing players to find a sweet-spot between Strength III (8:00) Instant Damage III and Strength (3:00) Instant Damage I. The ability to combine potions and their effects at the expense of diluting effects (since 1 potion input-> 3 potion output) would be interesting as well.
I think this is exactly right. The new system is superior to the old one so long as it's added to correctly. More trade-off ingredients (like Glowstone) need to be added. For example, an ingredient that moves a stat from I to II at the expense of adding hunger or instant damage. Then an ingredient that nullfies (either by duration or level) poison and hunger effects. Haste/weakness and Strength/Mining Fatigue ingredients would be a logical trade-off as well. Pure positive potions should be more time-consuming to brew and more expensive, not merely difficult to find because of seemingly-random bit shifting.
Another way to encourage experimentation would be re-adding a dilution mechanic/ingredient which reduces all effects, forcing players to find a sweet-spot between Strength III (8:00) Instant Damage III and Strength (3:00) Instant Damage I. The ability to combine potions and their effects at the expense of diluting effects (since 1 potion input-> 3 potion output) would be interesting as well.
I think you have the right idea. Ingredients that boost the power or duration in exchange for negative effects would be a great addition. Esp. if they apply to any existing effects, so if you want to add a lengthening ingredient and a intensifying ingredient, depeneding on the order you can create a weaker, longer term effect or a shorter, stronger effect.
You should be working on what you want the final effect of the potion should be, within a well-balanced framework, not exploring the total potion space in hopes of stubling on the right answer.
I read the original post and it only tells what the possible ones are, how do you make the more advanced potions if the lists and the way it seems to work only allows up to 3 ingredient potions from what I have found out.
My first guess is you cannot make the more advanced ones until they add more ingredients or a similar system of making them.
I read the original post and it only tells what the possible ones are, how do you make the more advanced potions if the lists and the way it seems to work only allows up to 3 ingredient potions from what I have found out.
My first guess is you cannot make the more advanced ones until they add more ingredients or a similar system of making them.
Supposedly jeb is going to add more ingredients or just tweak the current system to give more options.
Currently, the only items that are brewable with nearly all potions, are: Redstone dust, glowstone dust, and fermented spider eys. When used as a base, Nether wart is brewable with all ingredients, but cannot be added to anything other than water bottles.
This doesn't make for many combinations, to be honest. I'm hoping this isn't the final product.
I appreciate the hasty reply to my question. I was just kind of confused as to what was available at this moment in release. Yes, it would make sense that the other potions have not been implemented as of yet as the guides and the current materials do not allow for more "advanced" recipes. What I have read in the OP makes me really excited as to the shear number of potions available in code(over 32000). The final product will definitely have the feel of Minecraft in its final form. I cannot wait until it is done, as potion making is one of my favorite professions in other RPGs.
Supposedly jeb is going to add more ingredients or just tweak the current system to give more options.
I'd be in favor of the latter; at present the potion system is about as interesting as smelting in a furnace. :U
the noted lack of inter-ingredient interaction [other than bases and one effector] is causing the brewing system to become pointless to "explore".
Not to mention, the hardest potions to obtain are the Instant damage cycle - and who wants THEM when they can't be made useful?
I posted a long post on why I preferred the old system already, and do not intend on repeating it, but I don't like the notion of trading off multi-effect potions with the expense of ingredients for single-effect potions that are mind-numbingly boring to make. You have to came back between each step to toss in a new ingredient with the current system, too, so you have to almost WATCH it brew.
This is not a good step - I'd like at least one ingredient to be able to allow the addition of an additional "effector" item into the potion, for some kind of extra effect, and a downside. OH HEY, MAYBE THE USELESS INGREDIENTS COULD BE MADE USEFUL WITH THAT, just sayin'. =3
[by useless, I mean the spider's eyes, fermented or otherwise.]
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"DNA - when programming in spam becomes anti-tampering measures." -Self, on DNA
"Just because it's made of an explosive gas and an accelerant doesn't mean water is flammable!" -Self, on a poorly-worded commentary on water.
I'd be in favor of the latter; at present the potion system is about as interesting as smelting in a furnace. :U
the noted lack of inter-ingredient interaction [other than bases and one effector] is causing the brewing system to become pointless to "explore".
Not to mention, the hardest potions to obtain are the Instant damage cycle - and who wants THEM when they can't be made useful?
I posted a long post on why I preferred the old system already, and do not intend on repeating it, but I don't like the notion of trading off multi-effect potions with the expense of ingredients for single-effect potions that are mind-numbingly boring to make. You have to came back between each step to toss in a new ingredient with the current system, too, so you have to almost WATCH it brew.
This is not a good step - I'd like at least one ingredient to be able to allow the addition of an additional "effector" item into the potion, for some kind of extra effect, and a downside. OH HEY, MAYBE THE USELESS INGREDIENTS COULD BE MADE USEFUL WITH THAT, just sayin'. =3
[by useless, I mean the spider's eyes, fermented or otherwise.]
I'll be honest I'm kinda surprised it's as "broken" as it is right now, while still working, hehe. I guess Jeb just decided to leave them in the pre-release for testing since we just hack them back in anyway unless he completely removes the source.
When I place the 3 watter bottle things and the ingrediant(Blaze cream) onto the stand, nothing happens, the bubble thing doesn't move and the arrow doesn't.
Mind if I ask what those 22 are?
Only managed to find 17 (Not counting the ones with no effect) and am trying to document them all.
22-11-11The day I finally realized exactly how immature this community can be
The effect isn't available at this point in time.
Not in my knowledge, anyway - i.e., unless there's been another update.
"Just because it's made of an explosive gas and an accelerant doesn't mean water is flammable!" -Self, on a poorly-worded commentary on water.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumThe old potion system was pretty much the exact oposite of redstone.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumRedstone:
a few simple elements, combined in a logical order, to engineer a specific outcome, with practically infinite possibilities.
Old potions:
a few simple elements, combined in rather arbitrary orders, in the hope of stumbling upon an outcome, with a fairly limited number of interesting outcomes and a few thousand pointless varitations of those outcomes.'
All of the complexity was in the construction process. The end results where not complex. Sure, you can say "Oh, there are billions of possible potions". But really, a speed I 1:15 potion with water breathing 3:00 and a speed I 1:40 potion with water breathign 3:00 are not really different potions. Most of the possible combinations where entropic noise.
If the potions had the same breadth of possible outcomes as redstone, then the complexity could be justified.Granted, the current system is a bit on the simple side, and could be more complex, but it is better than the pointless complexity of the old one. If there was a way to really get unique effects from toying with the potions, it would have been good. But it wasn't. There was a discrete, fairly short list of acheiveable effects, in arbitrary combinations.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumWith this system, there is an apprant relationship between ingredient and effect. The old system had no apparent relationship unless you deconstruct the code, and even then people weren't seeing how to intentionally create a potion.
In java, integers are 32 bit, and hence several billion possibilities are quite feasible.
And tryign to brew the potion with minimal side effects or least ingredients is good... if you can intentionally do it. As it was, throwing random ingredients together and trying to get a good result, does not make developing new potions fun or interesting. You can't even approach it from the angle of" lets add a little bit less netherwart this time", since a minor change to the recipie caused drastic changes. You can't narrow in on the perfect blend. The system had complexity, but lacked depth. Depth is great. Complexity is not. The best systems are simple, with great depth, i.e. redstone. This system was complex and shallow, the oppisite of redstone, and not desireable.
As for the slow brewing, I don't think that is really an issue. You can set up multiple brewing stands, going between them and working on multiple potions. Drop in an ingredient, then go craft things. Drop in an ingredient as you leave base, pick up the result when you return. Drop something in the potions, drop something in the furnace.
I am using redstone as a comparison because it is a good system. I can illustrate the differences between the systems to illuminate why the potion system wasn't that great and why redstone is. People keep comparing the two, when they are very different in key ways.
I think this is exactly right. The new system is superior to the old one so long as it's added to correctly. More trade-off ingredients (like Glowstone) need to be added. For example, an ingredient that moves a stat from I to II at the expense of adding hunger or instant damage. Then an ingredient that nullfies (either by duration or level) poison and hunger effects. Haste/weakness and Strength/Mining Fatigue ingredients would be a logical trade-off as well. Pure positive potions should be more time-consuming to brew and more expensive, not merely difficult to find because of seemingly-random bit shifting.
Another way to encourage experimentation would be re-adding a dilution mechanic/ingredient which reduces all effects, forcing players to find a sweet-spot between Strength III (8:00) Instant Damage III and Strength (3:00) Instant Damage I. The ability to combine potions and their effects at the expense of diluting effects (since 1 potion input-> 3 potion output) would be interesting as well.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumI think you have the right idea. Ingredients that boost the power or duration in exchange for negative effects would be a great addition. Esp. if they apply to any existing effects, so if you want to add a lengthening ingredient and a intensifying ingredient, depeneding on the order you can create a weaker, longer term effect or a shorter, stronger effect.
You should be working on what you want the final effect of the potion should be, within a well-balanced framework, not exploring the total potion space in hopes of stubling on the right answer.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumYou grow them on soulsand in the nether.
My first guess is you cannot make the more advanced ones until they add more ingredients or a similar system of making them.
Supposedly jeb is going to add more ingredients or just tweak the current system to give more options.
This doesn't make for many combinations, to be honest. I'm hoping this isn't the final product.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumRight, nether only.
I'd be in favor of the latter; at present the potion system is about as interesting as smelting in a furnace. :U
the noted lack of inter-ingredient interaction [other than bases and one effector] is causing the brewing system to become pointless to "explore".
Not to mention, the hardest potions to obtain are the Instant damage cycle - and who wants THEM when they can't be made useful?
I posted a long post on why I preferred the old system already, and do not intend on repeating it, but I don't like the notion of trading off multi-effect potions with the expense of ingredients for single-effect potions that are mind-numbingly boring to make. You have to came back between each step to toss in a new ingredient with the current system, too, so you have to almost WATCH it brew.
This is not a good step - I'd like at least one ingredient to be able to allow the addition of an additional "effector" item into the potion, for some kind of extra effect, and a downside. OH HEY, MAYBE THE USELESS INGREDIENTS COULD BE MADE USEFUL WITH THAT, just sayin'. =3
[by useless, I mean the spider's eyes, fermented or otherwise.]
"Just because it's made of an explosive gas and an accelerant doesn't mean water is flammable!" -Self, on a poorly-worded commentary on water.
I'll be honest I'm kinda surprised it's as "broken" as it is right now, while still working, hehe. I guess Jeb just decided to leave them in the pre-release for testing since we just hack them back in anyway unless he completely removes the source.