First, location will be incredibly important. Higher up would probably be best, so you don't have any enemies, human or otherwise, jumping into your castle. However, higher up has no access to water- which means no moat. And especially no lava moat, if such a thing is even possible.
I think defenses will likely be balanced Effectiveness vs. Time. Sure, the most effective wall is ten blocks thick made of solid steel- but who can build such a thing?
I think what will likely happen is a "glacis" design. Thick on the bottom, so infantry can't just walk in, and thinner on the ramparts, to save time and materials.
I also like the hollow walls idea, at least as a temporary thing. Say, you're setting up the base with your team, and you plan to make a four block thick wall. You quickly build the inner layer, then the outermost. Getting enough stone/metal for the middle two is tedious and time-consuming, so you throw a bunch of sand in there until you can mine enough stronger stuff.
Alternatively, have a solid stone inner/outer wall, and a two-block tall stone floor in between. Sand on top. Then, when the enemy tries to dig in, they have all the headache of time-consuming stone to dig through with the added problem of being flooded by sand when they do break the stone.
Of course, all this is pointless if the enemy can simply tunnel in. This is why I think the current Survival tactic of building walls using stone mined from underneath your base will go out of style- what better way to tell a mining enemy "The enemy base is here!" than a giant pocket of air? Without an undercroft, they'll have to emerge blind, maybe even missing you entirely and alerting your sentry to the fact that there's sappers trying to kill you.
The other method if mining-defense (that honestly will only be effective if Notch implements ambient sounds- that is, if someone is mining nearby you can hear their sound effects, not just your own) is to build a "skirt" around your wall that extends down into the earth. This provides a good beacon for enemies, yes, but it also slows them down. And if you can hear people mining, you'll hear them under you, giving you time to prepare. And if you're going with a skirt of stone or metal, you've clearly abandoned stealth, so you may as well replace your floor with dressed stone as an additional time-buyer.
Ultimately though defenses will only buy you time; you won't win with them. It all comes down to manpower, so anything you can build that will give your team time to gather where the enemy is breaking through or provide some sort of advantage is a good thing.
If adminium will be craftable in the future, it would be an excellent building material to protect from the (un)intelligent attacker, but a more persistent individual could dig through the wall to get at the unsuspecting individuals inside.
Build a pipe with lava in it. make this pipe go to both exits of your base. The Trigger will be sand on a block. Make it in a sekret room. When people come in, hide in the room, destroy the block and wait for the lava to flood :biggrin.gif:
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Quote from Kilgallon »
Quote from MomizerRox »
Quote from ZarroTsu »
Creepa stole ma bike. [SSSS]
Sooo... when's the next seecret Friday update topic going up? =[
It's simple.
Do what the dwarves did. Build a fort inside an active volcano inside an active volcano.
I believe the term is "Build an active volcano inside a fortress inside an active volcano."
But yeah, there is only one way to make sure NOBODY will find you.
Step one, make or find a large open cave in which you can make a large structure you plan on never leaving. That or mining out a 5 tile wide empty space around your bunker.
Step two, make sponges inside this empty space so that no water will ever enter it.
Step three, flood the whole thing with lava with you inside the inner structure. Nobody can get in. Nobody can get out. People can't stone cast the lava with water because of the sponges. Nobody can delete the sponges because of the lava.
Blend it in with the landscape, and there should be walls of gold and false rooms, but way away from the real base.
Even better, have a deserted fort with lava under it.
Oh, and make the real room into a lava chamber with only one block that would lead to the place.
Build a fortress in the sky, with dirt stairs, so you can TNT them if anyone attacks. You gat easy defence, and you get light for possible farming. The only downside is that it's going to be very noticable, and you can't get more materials once you're up there. But you will need a very intelligent and persistent attacker to get to you, and if attackers pillar jump, they can be shot off (falling a very long way down).
If I am correct in still thinking it falls when you activate it you can use TNT.
You build a fort, make a moat around your big fort very wide and build a 2 wide bridge as the only way to get across, the entrance to the door will be basically a normal door filled with some metals, then it will be hard to get it.
As your enemies are charging across the bridge you get yourself positioned in a floating tower that allows you to detonate the tnt from a safe spot that is one square from your wall above your bridge, positioned there will be TNT and you detonate it. As it finally explodes your enemies will be pretty much trying to destroy your door and will be knocked off the two or so wide bridge into your moat that could be filled with lava or the mobs could be there to kill them too(it is a pit, designed for player and mob).
Damages
1.Arrows and Melee from defenders
2.Inital Explosion
3.Fall Damage
4.Dangerous Mob/Lava Damage
After all that they should be fully dead.
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Quote from MichaeljMM79 »
Talent didn't go anywhere, it just gets lost in all the noise. You have to find it.
Build a fortress in the sky, with dirt stairs, so you can TNT them if anyone attacks. You gat easy defence, and you get light for possible farming. The only downside is that it's going to be very noticable, and you can't get more materials once you're up there. But you will need a very intelligent and persistent attacker to get to you, and if attackers pillar jump, they can be shot off (falling a very long way down).
I like this idea. Make a small stone/iron.gold "cage" for yourself. Bonus points if the stairs are composed of TNT. That way, you can destroy the path whenever you want. However, you had better have enough to build the whole thing at once, because that TNT WILL be gone if you come back later.
these are all awesome ideas, and I definately look forward to seeing survival multi in action. What you all must remember though is that attackrs will no doubt build a 'seige fort' as close as the can to your own base, this will protect them from arrows as much as your walls do you, and they can keep your head down aswell while they try to work.
Attacking will always be harder, but if you succeed, you get a free fort :smile.gif:
But yeah, there is only one way to make sure NOBODY will find you.
Step one, make or find a large open cave in which you can make a large structure you plan on never leaving. That or mining out a 5 tile wide empty space around your bunker.
Step two, make sponges inside this empty space so that no water will ever enter it.
Step three, flood the whole thing with lava with you inside the inner structure. Nobody can get in. Nobody can get out. People can't stone cast the lava with water because of the sponges. Nobody can delete the sponges because of the lava.
Well... since they have nothing else to do, they will be forced to do it the old fashioned way of:
1.place block in lava(even if it is beside a wall)
2. place blocks around block fr. previous step
3. remove earliest (exisistant) block(s)
4a.place blocks around boardering blocks on outside
4b.If a layer of lava has been completely removed go to step 1
The problem of this though is how tedious it would be, but with combination of water stoning the lava it would be very effective
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Starcraft 2 is the Brawl to Brood War's Melee
Quote from Doug Hug »
Let's kick ass and eat granola and lucky for you I brought lots of granola
i believe there would need to be some server side "building time" and "battle time". half of the map would be divided, so you could not cross over and spy on the enemys defences.
also, whats stopping people from just tunneling from one side to the other, building a bridge through the pit of the double walls, and appering inside? mabey there could be some sort of radar system...
also, imagine building a sniper tower. just use glass to shield yourself, and when the time is right, break open the window, and fire!
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Give me an internet, or Chuck Norris will kill you!!!
Build a 2nd story room with a 1x1 tunnel to the first floor. Place a TNT block in it. When the attackers come, activate the block. IT will fall and explode near them :biggrin.gif:
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Quote from Kilgallon »
Quote from MomizerRox »
Quote from ZarroTsu »
Creepa stole ma bike. [SSSS]
Sooo... when's the next seecret Friday update topic going up? =[
also, whats stopping people from just tunneling from one side to the other, building a bridge through the pit of the double walls, and appering inside? mabey there could be some sort of radar system...
A radar system would be cool, but I don't think it would fit in with the medieval theme.
Also, the tunneling is very possible and in fact will probably be the way to go. Here's the thing, though: they'll have to find you, which can take some time. Even when they do find you, the ideal situation would be to have "double-sided" walls. As in, they can defend against attacks from within and without.
The point of all these walls is to eliminate your enemy's options. For instance, the most fair fight is just one-on-one on flat ground. Assuming equipment and skill are equal, it all comes down to luck. You don't want this. Luck sucks. Half the time you lose. That's a 50% success rate- or, in high school terms, an F.
So, what do you do? You build walls, and trenches, and defenses, and make it all but impossible for him to attack you easily. Now if he wants to kill you, he has to come up with a crazy scheme and get many people organized. The crazier the scheme necessary and the more people it'll take to kill you, the likelier it is someone will make a mistake. And mistakes work in the defender's favor.
As Comrade Johan said, though, attacking is much harder than defending- but if they win they get a free fort. :smile.gif:
RRRGRRRRRRR
R G G RR
☺─DRRRGRRR
RRR RRRDRRR
│
☻ → ☺ →
RRRRGGGRRRR
RRRRGGGRRRR
R ☺─DDD─☺ R
RRRR RRRR
RRR RRR
RRR RRR
RRR RRR
RR RR
RR RR
RR RR
RRLLLLLLLRR
I thought they were pretty obvious, but for Alpha's sake:
R=Rock
D=Dirt
L=Lava
G=Gravel
☺=Player helping you
☻=Player attacking you
Line=Player destroying block
Also, to elaborate on the person at top. The player would station themselves so that they could see the two pillars of gravel. Whenever the bait releases the first pillar this would signal them to trap the other player. Then the two bottom players would get a thumbs up to cave it in.
First, location will be incredibly important. Higher up would probably be best, so you don't have any enemies, human or otherwise, jumping into your castle. However, higher up has no access to water- which means no moat. And especially no lava moat, if such a thing is even possible.
I think defenses will likely be balanced Effectiveness vs. Time. Sure, the most effective wall is ten blocks thick made of solid steel- but who can build such a thing?
I think what will likely happen is a "glacis" design. Thick on the bottom, so infantry can't just walk in, and thinner on the ramparts, to save time and materials.
I also like the hollow walls idea, at least as a temporary thing. Say, you're setting up the base with your team, and you plan to make a four block thick wall. You quickly build the inner layer, then the outermost. Getting enough stone/metal for the middle two is tedious and time-consuming, so you throw a bunch of sand in there until you can mine enough stronger stuff.
Alternatively, have a solid stone inner/outer wall, and a two-block tall stone floor in between. Sand on top. Then, when the enemy tries to dig in, they have all the headache of time-consuming stone to dig through with the added problem of being flooded by sand when they do break the stone.
Of course, all this is pointless if the enemy can simply tunnel in. This is why I think the current Survival tactic of building walls using stone mined from underneath your base will go out of style- what better way to tell a mining enemy "The enemy base is here!" than a giant pocket of air? Without an undercroft, they'll have to emerge blind, maybe even missing you entirely and alerting your sentry to the fact that there's sappers trying to kill you.
The other method if mining-defense (that honestly will only be effective if Notch implements ambient sounds- that is, if someone is mining nearby you can hear their sound effects, not just your own) is to build a "skirt" around your wall that extends down into the earth. This provides a good beacon for enemies, yes, but it also slows them down. And if you can hear people mining, you'll hear them under you, giving you time to prepare. And if you're going with a skirt of stone or metal, you've clearly abandoned stealth, so you may as well replace your floor with dressed stone as an additional time-buyer.
Ultimately though defenses will only buy you time; you won't win with them. It all comes down to manpower, so anything you can build that will give your team time to gather where the enemy is breaking through or provide some sort of advantage is a good thing.
Do what the dwarves did. Build a fort inside an active volcano inside an active volcano.
Go nomad. Don't build a base. Stay in an area untill it's useless.
Works quite well.
Build a pipe with lava in it. make this pipe go to both exits of your base. The Trigger will be sand on a block. Make it in a sekret room. When people come in, hide in the room, destroy the block and wait for the lava to flood :biggrin.gif:
I believe the term is "Build an active volcano inside a fortress inside an active volcano."
But yeah, there is only one way to make sure NOBODY will find you.
Step one, make or find a large open cave in which you can make a large structure you plan on never leaving. That or mining out a 5 tile wide empty space around your bunker.
Step two, make sponges inside this empty space so that no water will ever enter it.
Step three, flood the whole thing with lava with you inside the inner structure. Nobody can get in. Nobody can get out. People can't stone cast the lava with water because of the sponges. Nobody can delete the sponges because of the lava.
Hell yeah
Even better, have a deserted fort with lava under it.
Oh, and make the real room into a lava chamber with only one block that would lead to the place.
You build a fort, make a moat around your big fort very wide and build a 2 wide bridge as the only way to get across, the entrance to the door will be basically a normal door filled with some metals, then it will be hard to get it.
As your enemies are charging across the bridge you get yourself positioned in a floating tower that allows you to detonate the tnt from a safe spot that is one square from your wall above your bridge, positioned there will be TNT and you detonate it. As it finally explodes your enemies will be pretty much trying to destroy your door and will be knocked off the two or so wide bridge into your moat that could be filled with lava or the mobs could be there to kill them too(it is a pit, designed for player and mob).
Damages
1.Arrows and Melee from defenders
2.Inital Explosion
3.Fall Damage
4.Dangerous Mob/Lava Damage
After all that they should be fully dead.
http://www.minerwars.com/?aid=640
I like this idea. Make a small stone/iron.gold "cage" for yourself. Bonus points if the stairs are composed of TNT. That way, you can destroy the path whenever you want. However, you had better have enough to build the whole thing at once, because that TNT WILL be gone if you come back later.
Attacking will always be harder, but if you succeed, you get a free fort :smile.gif:
Most people on halo 1 for PC are stupid.
Well... since they have nothing else to do, they will be forced to do it the old fashioned way of:
1.place block in lava(even if it is beside a wall)
2. place blocks around block fr. previous step
3. remove earliest (exisistant) block(s)
4a.place blocks around boardering blocks on outside
4b.If a layer of lava has been completely removed go to step 1
The problem of this though is how tedious it would be, but with combination of water stoning the lava it would be very effective
also, whats stopping people from just tunneling from one side to the other, building a bridge through the pit of the double walls, and appering inside? mabey there could be some sort of radar system...
also, imagine building a sniper tower. just use glass to shield yourself, and when the time is right, break open the window, and fire!
A radar system would be cool, but I don't think it would fit in with the medieval theme.
Also, the tunneling is very possible and in fact will probably be the way to go. Here's the thing, though: they'll have to find you, which can take some time. Even when they do find you, the ideal situation would be to have "double-sided" walls. As in, they can defend against attacks from within and without.
The point of all these walls is to eliminate your enemy's options. For instance, the most fair fight is just one-on-one on flat ground. Assuming equipment and skill are equal, it all comes down to luck. You don't want this. Luck sucks. Half the time you lose. That's a 50% success rate- or, in high school terms, an F.
So, what do you do? You build walls, and trenches, and defenses, and make it all but impossible for him to attack you easily. Now if he wants to kill you, he has to come up with a crazy scheme and get many people organized. The crazier the scheme necessary and the more people it'll take to kill you, the likelier it is someone will make a mistake. And mistakes work in the defender's favor.
As Comrade Johan said, though, attacking is much harder than defending- but if they win they get a free fort. :smile.gif:
Minecraft does not have a medieval theme, the radar would be good but maybe only in a very small area.
http://www.minerwars.com/?aid=640
I think it's just themeless.
Fun games need no theme.
This is what I'll be using.
I thought they were pretty obvious, but for Alpha's sake:
R=Rock
D=Dirt
L=Lava
G=Gravel
☺=Player helping you
☻=Player attacking you
Line=Player destroying block
Also, to elaborate on the person at top. The player would station themselves so that they could see the two pillars of gravel. Whenever the bait releases the first pillar this would signal them to trap the other player. Then the two bottom players would get a thumbs up to cave it in.