I hate to repeat myself, but here goes: I'd strongly recommend *against* adding hard-coded classes.
This is a sandbox game. I don't want to be forced into some preconceived role because of the button I clicked when I joined the server. And what's the point of crafting weapons anyways when everybody chooses "Warrior" and gets a free metal sword?
Foe has a good suggestion - define 'classes' by what actions you take DURING the game, not BEFORE the game. I'd disagree with having the titles give bonuses, because that's basically just levelling - player X has an advantage over player Y because X has been mining on this server for longer, and has a better title. Instead, titles would give 'advantages' in the community. If you're a "Master ZomBuster", the local weaponsmith might give you priority on the next sword he makes. On the other hand, a new player might mine a few blocks and display his new "Newbie Miner" tag. Now, the rest of the community instantly knows what role he wants (digging), and they can direct him to a new mineshaft. Finally, if I get the "Dangerous Murderer" title from PvP and start showing it off, players will give me a wide berth when I stroll into town.
This way, it's still obvious what roles a player is involved in, or which roles he WANTS to be involved in, but there's no forcing of roles and there's complete customization during the game. If I decide that mining is boring, and zombie killing is more entertaining, I just grab a sword and start smacking a few zombies.
I agree with what Foe and Thexor said, but perhaps titles can degrade if you don't keep doing the requirements. Say, you've been all about PVP for a long time, but now you want to go pacifist and just mine. Because you haven't been PVPing that much/at all throughout the games you've played, you lose the title. That way, your title reflects your current role and not what you did in the past.
Pump action shotguns. Chainsaws. Power armor. MECH SUITS!
Hell yeah. Mech suits with giant chainsaws and shotguns.
That's a game I will play any/every day of the week.
...
Also the mech suits are on fire. And the chainsaw is made out of live, angry animals. Like badgers. Who are also on fire.
Yeahhhh. :biggrin.gif:
EDIT: I would like to add, I love Thexor's idea thingiemajigger.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We're no strangers to love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no good, started makin' trouble in my neighborhood, I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, she said 'The Game'.
Here's my idea:
Classes: Yes, but They make a huge difference on how you play (and possibly change based on your most used weapon etc.). They would be something like
Warrior - A class that has extra health
Archer - A class that does extra damage with a bow and turns semi invisible when in stealth mode in the trees.
Ninja - A class that moves faster and jumps higher but has less health, it also would turn semi invisible when in stealth mode.
Miner - A class that takes less damage from lava and can hold it's breath underwater for longer.
Mage - I haven't thought this one out yet.
Leveling up: Hell no, it would break the game, along with any hope of being a balanced game.
Armor: Simple really. You start with the armor of you class and can craft your own armor.
Light armor - Ninja, Miner - Take more damage against weapons than normal but is extra effective against fall damage and lets you jump higher.
Medium armor - Archer - No stat changes
Heavy Armor - Warrior - Damage taken from weapons is lowered by a huge amount, but fall damage, jump height and speed is badly affected.
Weapons: A few simple weapons, you would start off with the weapon of your class and you can craft others.
Barehanded - Ninja - Stuns enemies but does little damage unless you are a ninja.
Bow - Archer (30 arrows) - The same as the bow in the game.
Longsword - Warrior - Longer range than barehanded and more damage
Pickaxe - Miner - Average damage and decreased mining time
Ninja Stars - Ninja - A low damage weapon that does extra damage if you're in stealth mode.
Stealth: I think stealth should play a big but optional part on the combat system. A stealth button to go into a crouched mode with no name above your head would be good. You would do extra damage from behind in this mode but move slower.
Stop, we already were clear on this, NO ****ING LEVELING UP!
Yeah, as I said 'button press < strategy' , so you can be sneaky by being good at it ( physically emulate it ) , not by the use of a button.
-------
If the classes are emulated by equipment, it could go like this.
Speed/stealth - this depends on the weight of the equipment (e.g. a guy with no armour, a dagger and a bow could run nearly top speed (carrying nothing) and could turn semi-invisible (press a button?) (maybe it changes skin to green and brown randomly), while a guy with a great sword and full armour would go very slow.
And by your actions, and no stealth button, stealth is for those who actually can physical do it.
I like the idea of "button pressing < strategy", in general, but with stealth... unless an actual stealth feature is implemented, stealth will be a lost art. I'm not saying that one class should have stealth and no one else should, but if everyone just has to rely on walking up in plain sight, it'll fail every time. For two reasons:
1- In this game, we have no fog of war. We can see across the entire map if we have an unobstructed field of view, which isn't hard to come across. Now, I know, you need to use terrain to hide your approach. But this leads into problem number two.
2- Everyone moves at the same speed. If you were to get it in your head to use terrain to stealth up to someone, and you go about doing that, by the time you get there they would be somewhere totally different (because, you see, you have to start far away from the person or else there's not enough terrain to hide them). This is actually a fault of the combat system in general- if everyone moves at the same speed, then there's no point to melee combat. We'd just be backpedaling and/or running after each other, throwing arrows.
(Getting off topic, yes, but I want to expound more on that speed thing.)
Historically, elite melee troops were heavy and slow- at least, compared to archers. And given enough time (and enough arrows), archers would always beat melee troops, simply because while the infantry was slowly plodding towards the archers they'd be getting impaled by pointy wood sticks... and when they got too close, the archers would just run away faster than the melee troops. That's especially a problem ingame, because our arrows have ridiculous range. It may be hard to hit something at those kind of ranges, but all it takes is practice. Practice should be rewarded; you shouldn't become invincible from it.
Now, in real life, the way infantry got around this problem was by getting men on horses to catch up with the fast archers. We may yet get cavalry, but I doubt it. We need some way for the slow, armored melee guys to catch up with the fast archers, or else all there will be is fast archers.
And reaching this point, I realize that I don't have a solution for this problem. But I guess that's why we have you guys. :smile.gif:
You know, this probably seems ridiculous and might take too much work, but perhaps arrows should snap when they strike armor, and there should be some weak spots in all armor just so skilled enough archers can take down warriors.
And if our 'light' armor will be cloth, nothing but weak spots! Damn elves and their damn hippy cloth for "dexterous movement". Ha, dexterous movement... grumble grumble.
Anyway, if this seems unfair, perhaps armor should have durability. Every two or three arrows could take the durability down a point and when the durability hits 0, the armor breaks. (Also encouraging putting the damn armor away and running off! Ignore the fact the heavy armor is still in the inventory.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We're no strangers to love, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no good, started makin' trouble in my neighborhood, I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, she said 'The Game'.
-Headshots should count for something. Maybe an arrow to the head kills instantly (Since headshots aren't exactly supereasy to do)
-No classes. If boosts are needed then do it in a skill point method. You join the server with 10 skill points and then you can put those points into a variety of categories (defense, attack, speed, mining, etc.). That way there is no set grouping and you can still be exactly what you want to be.
-Dropping sand on a zombie should kill it rather than just trap it until it gets free
-Slow down the zombie running speed. I don't like it that they go faster than us, maybe have them be the same speed, but faster just annoys me
-Increase spawn mod sizes as time goes on. Start off with how it is now and then slowly raise the amount of mobs in a single spawn group. For single player put a cap on it at say about 15, but in multiplayer have the cap be 30-45. Force us to work together. Also make the larger spawn groups diversified. Don't have a group of 30 creepers all at once, but a group of 15 creepers, 10 archers and 10 zombies maybe.
Headshots aren't easy to do?
I think you should compare Minecraft characters to other games' character models. Maybe headshots hit head armour instead of body armour and deals 50% extra damage or something, but instant kill would be ridiculous.
Fast zombies is the BEST, do NOT change that o_o
They're a ton of fun to fight; it's the trait of theirs that makes them that much more challenging to fight and deal with! Without that, they would be an incredibly generic mob.
Finally: If someone upturned a (very large) bucket of sand on you, would it kill you or even hurt you? =/ It would sift down around you and possibly bury your lower legs, at worst getting you a little stuck.
Same with gravel. It might be a bit more painful though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Maybe insta-kill is a bit much, but headshooting while running backwards at 5 jumping zombies is definitely not the easiest thing to do.
Eh, to each his own. I would prefer more slower mobs then less faster ones. I have always been a fan of slow zombies myself.
In real life the sand would spread out several blocks-space worth around you. If it is all congealed and muddy so that it would stay in a single block space then it would suffocate you if it covered your head.
---> I'm just saying, the Zombies need something to spice them up. I suppose as long as there aren't a large number of mobs that are simply walk and attack (i.e. the way zombies and skeletons were before) it'd be fine, but zombies add far more interest currently than they did before.
And I suppose it would suffocate you! I was thinking you were saying it should crush you xD (zombies don't breathe, though!)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
We need kind of a basic unit. Maybe have a lunatic class or runner class for speedy enemies, but zombies just seem like they should be the vanilla enemy who attacks in swarms but don't have anything going for them.
You know, this probably seems ridiculous and might take too much work, but perhaps arrows should snap when they strike armor, and there should be some weak spots in all armor just so skilled enough archers can take down warriors.
Ermm..
I think Notch said something about not having hitboxes in..
Soo..
MEHBEH this wont be possible.
:S
Maybe different weapons do different stuff, but all being effective in some degree
Sword: High damage, low knock back, normal speed (Powerful attacker)
Mace: Medium damage, high knock back, slow speed (Knocks back enemies)
Fist: Low damage, Normal knock back, high speed (Rapid attack)
Arrow: High damage, low knock back, slow speed (Long range attack)
This was all I could think of. Maybe combine it with some other person's idea and it may get great results :smile.gif:
Hey, Iron Element, I had an idea like that posted earlier :3
Other ideas I'd had:
Knife: High damage, no knock back, normal speed, little range (hard to attack someone who knows you're there though)
Spear: Medium damage, medium knock back, slow speed, longer reach
And then something vaguely to do with armour penetration.
Sword and Fist are worst against armour
Spear and Arrow are mediocre
Mace, Knife are best (but Mace does lower damage overall)
---> Or... something
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Hey, Iron Element, I had an idea like that posted earlier :3
Just read up earlier about that, sorry :sad.gif:
Hopefully nobody has thought of this:
If there is skeletons, then wheres the ability to shoot lightning out of my fingers?
Maybe some kind of magic item buff system using some sort of item to influence your powers, like a staff. How about some gems underground that you can put into items to give magical effects or increase in power.
If you put it into a melee weapon, it gets that buff, or encrusting arrows with it gives the arrow that effect. But when you use a gem to put it on top of your staff, you can fire projectiles with that gem's power.
This is a sandbox game. I don't want to be forced into some preconceived role because of the button I clicked when I joined the server. And what's the point of crafting weapons anyways when everybody chooses "Warrior" and gets a free metal sword?
Foe has a good suggestion - define 'classes' by what actions you take DURING the game, not BEFORE the game. I'd disagree with having the titles give bonuses, because that's basically just levelling - player X has an advantage over player Y because X has been mining on this server for longer, and has a better title. Instead, titles would give 'advantages' in the community. If you're a "Master ZomBuster", the local weaponsmith might give you priority on the next sword he makes. On the other hand, a new player might mine a few blocks and display his new "Newbie Miner" tag. Now, the rest of the community instantly knows what role he wants (digging), and they can direct him to a new mineshaft. Finally, if I get the "Dangerous Murderer" title from PvP and start showing it off, players will give me a wide berth when I stroll into town.
This way, it's still obvious what roles a player is involved in, or which roles he WANTS to be involved in, but there's no forcing of roles and there's complete customization during the game. If I decide that mining is boring, and zombie killing is more entertaining, I just grab a sword and start smacking a few zombies.
Hell yeah. Mech suits with giant chainsaws and shotguns.
That's a game I will play any/every day of the week.
...
Also the mech suits are on fire. And the chainsaw is made out of live, angry animals. Like badgers. Who are also on fire.
Yeahhhh. :biggrin.gif:
EDIT: I would like to add, I love Thexor's idea thingiemajigger.
Stop, we already were clear on this, NO ****ING LEVELING UP!
Yeah, as I said 'button press < strategy' , so you can be sneaky by being good at it ( physically emulate it ) , not by the use of a button.
-------
And by your actions, and no stealth button, stealth is for those who actually can physical do it.
1- In this game, we have no fog of war. We can see across the entire map if we have an unobstructed field of view, which isn't hard to come across. Now, I know, you need to use terrain to hide your approach. But this leads into problem number two.
2- Everyone moves at the same speed. If you were to get it in your head to use terrain to stealth up to someone, and you go about doing that, by the time you get there they would be somewhere totally different (because, you see, you have to start far away from the person or else there's not enough terrain to hide them). This is actually a fault of the combat system in general- if everyone moves at the same speed, then there's no point to melee combat. We'd just be backpedaling and/or running after each other, throwing arrows.
(Getting off topic, yes, but I want to expound more on that speed thing.)
Historically, elite melee troops were heavy and slow- at least, compared to archers. And given enough time (and enough arrows), archers would always beat melee troops, simply because while the infantry was slowly plodding towards the archers they'd be getting impaled by pointy wood sticks... and when they got too close, the archers would just run away faster than the melee troops. That's especially a problem ingame, because our arrows have ridiculous range. It may be hard to hit something at those kind of ranges, but all it takes is practice. Practice should be rewarded; you shouldn't become invincible from it.
Now, in real life, the way infantry got around this problem was by getting men on horses to catch up with the fast archers. We may yet get cavalry, but I doubt it. We need some way for the slow, armored melee guys to catch up with the fast archers, or else all there will be is fast archers.
And reaching this point, I realize that I don't have a solution for this problem. But I guess that's why we have you guys. :smile.gif:
And if our 'light' armor will be cloth, nothing but weak spots! Damn elves and their damn hippy cloth for "dexterous movement". Ha, dexterous movement... grumble grumble.
Anyway, if this seems unfair, perhaps armor should have durability. Every two or three arrows could take the durability down a point and when the durability hits 0, the armor breaks. (Also encouraging putting the damn armor away and running off! Ignore the fact the heavy armor is still in the inventory.)
-Headshots should count for something. Maybe an arrow to the head kills instantly (Since headshots aren't exactly supereasy to do)
-No classes. If boosts are needed then do it in a skill point method. You join the server with 10 skill points and then you can put those points into a variety of categories (defense, attack, speed, mining, etc.). That way there is no set grouping and you can still be exactly what you want to be.
-Dropping sand on a zombie should kill it rather than just trap it until it gets free
-Slow down the zombie running speed. I don't like it that they go faster than us, maybe have them be the same speed, but faster just annoys me
-Increase spawn mod sizes as time goes on. Start off with how it is now and then slowly raise the amount of mobs in a single spawn group. For single player put a cap on it at say about 15, but in multiplayer have the cap be 30-45. Force us to work together. Also make the larger spawn groups diversified. Don't have a group of 30 creepers all at once, but a group of 15 creepers, 10 archers and 10 zombies maybe.
I think you should compare Minecraft characters to other games' character models. Maybe headshots hit head armour instead of body armour and deals 50% extra damage or something, but instant kill would be ridiculous.
Fast zombies is the BEST, do NOT change that o_o
They're a ton of fun to fight; it's the trait of theirs that makes them that much more challenging to fight and deal with! Without that, they would be an incredibly generic mob.
Finally: If someone upturned a (very large) bucket of sand on you, would it kill you or even hurt you? =/ It would sift down around you and possibly bury your lower legs, at worst getting you a little stuck.
Same with gravel. It might be a bit more painful though.
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Eh, to each his own. I would prefer more slower mobs then less faster ones. I have always been a fan of slow zombies myself.
In real life the sand would spread out several blocks-space worth around you. If it is all congealed and muddy so that it would stay in a single block space then it would suffocate you if it covered your head.
And I suppose it would suffocate you! I was thinking you were saying it should crush you xD (zombies don't breathe, though!)
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Ermm..
I think Notch said something about not having hitboxes in..
Soo..
MEHBEH this wont be possible.
:S
Mehbeh..
D:
Sword: High damage, low knock back, normal speed (Powerful attacker)
Mace: Medium damage, high knock back, slow speed (Knocks back enemies)
Fist: Low damage, Normal knock back, high speed (Rapid attack)
Arrow: High damage, low knock back, slow speed (Long range attack)
This was all I could think of. Maybe combine it with some other person's idea and it may get great results :smile.gif:
http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=Iron815 - Hats really hide your true identity.
Other ideas I'd had:
Knife: High damage, no knock back, normal speed, little range (hard to attack someone who knows you're there though)
Spear: Medium damage, medium knock back, slow speed, longer reach
And then something vaguely to do with armour penetration.
Sword and Fist are worst against armour
Spear and Arrow are mediocre
Mace, Knife are best (but Mace does lower damage overall)
---> Or... something
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Just read up earlier about that, sorry :sad.gif:
Hopefully nobody has thought of this:
If there is skeletons, then wheres the ability to shoot lightning out of my fingers?
Maybe some kind of magic item buff system using some sort of item to influence your powers, like a staff. How about some gems underground that you can put into items to give magical effects or increase in power.
Maybe something like...
Ruby=Fire
Sapphire=Water
Topaz=Lightning
Emerald=Poison
Diamond=More damage
Jet=More knockback
If you put it into a melee weapon, it gets that buff, or encrusting arrows with it gives the arrow that effect. But when you use a gem to put it on top of your staff, you can fire projectiles with that gem's power.
Edit: I might of got a bit off topic with this...
http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=Iron815 - Hats really hide your true identity.