P.S. After all these years why is "greifing" and "griefer" still not a word according to forum spell-check dictionaries?
If you give someone "grief" you are a "Griever". The forums spell-check dictionary is going by this definition:
grieve (grv)
v. grieved, griev·ing, grieves
v.tr.
1. To cause to be sorrowful; distress: It grieves me to see you in such pain.
2. To mourn or sorrow for: We grieved the death of our pastor.
3. Usage Problem To file an official or formal grievance on account of (an actual or perceived injustice).
4. Archaic To hurt or harm.
v.intr.
To experience or express grief.
I see a lot of people complaining about the many features in multiplayer that do not work yet. What exactly are you referring to? The number one problem, duping, is going to be at least mostly fixed with the beta update.
So what's left to be added? Sure, the nether doesn't work yet. That's one thing. What else? Minecart boosters don't always work? Those are a glitch to begin with; complaining that an avoidable glitch got glitchier (in a way that cannot be abused) is pointless. Then there's the tool repair bug, which is just that: a bug (which might get fixed by the beta update). The only issues beyond this are related to lag with enemies and such.
The "problems" with griefing and raiding chests are not problems with Notch's design but with the server owners who refuse to let people play the game as intended. The current version of minecraft only includes survival; we know that creative is coming in the future. When Halo Reach was in beta, you didn't see everyone whining that single player didn't even exist. Guess what? If you really want to play creative mode, you can, and it's even free!
So, going by the incorrect design model most of you think is the standard, the only two things that will be missing from the beta will be creative mode and the nether in multiplayer (all other issues are bugs). I think that's pretty close.
If it isn't in the singleplayer, why are we wondering why it isn't in the multiplayer? That is an incomplete feature. Notch himself has said that Minecraft will probably never be feature complete. This makes sense, as there are literally thousands of possible additions that could be thrown in there (something our own suggestions sub-forum can attest to). Notch has said on his blog that beta will consist mainly of more content. He is working endlessly on what is probably one huge update that will bring the game around to Beta. Right now is the time for bug fixes. Soon will come the harvest of nifty new stuff. Personally I'm more interested in polish and new stuff that I can use to make puzzles for the upcoming Adventure mode than bugs. I am fully assured that Notch will squish all the bugs, out witch all the glitches, and start the reach for new features ASAP.
I believe this game made itself well worth my thirteen American dollars within the first week I played it. Everything I've gotten after that has been cream cheese icing on the carrot cake.
I don't care who says what about what "Beta" means but I have never, ever, ever participated in any beta for any game that was "Feature Complete"
Ever.
In ten years of beta testing games.
In every single beta test I have ever participated in the game has been buggy and incomplete... Heck, most of them went on to *release* as buggy and incomplete.
It's all well and good to post the dictionary or wiki definitions of what "alpha" and "beta" mean, but the fact is that in the real world of game development, that's almost never the way it actually happens.
I've already bought the game, I don't really care what stage he considers it to be in. I just don't see what difference it makes. Either way he's still working on it and we're still getting updates.
Hell, he could call it the "rabid-wet-dead-half-eaten-squirrel" stage for all I care. It changes nothing.
If you give someone "grief" you are a "Griever". The forums spell-check dictionary is going by this definition:
grieve (grv)
v. grieved, griev·ing, grieves
v.tr.
1. To cause to be sorrowful; distress: It grieves me to see you in such pain.
2. To mourn or sorrow for: We grieved the death of our pastor.
3. Usage Problem To file an official or formal grievance on account of (an actual or perceived injustice).
4. Archaic To hurt or harm.
v.intr.
To experience or express grief.
Sorry but you asked "why?" and I answered.
By your correct definition, if you are a griever you are the one that is hurt. If you greive you are also the one that is hurt. But I see where you are coming from. I don't see many people use the term griever to describe a person who enjoys hurting others so I figure the most used term, griefer should be a legitimate spelling. But we can agree to disagree. :smile.gif:
firstly: LOL@all the non programmers trying to argue what terms like Alpha and Beta mean in terms of software development.
Secondly: The reason notch is progressing to Beta has nothing to do with a technical point the game has reached and everything to do with a financial point it has reached.
Notch has said the game will be a certain price during alpha and it will go up during beta.
Minecraft has become well known and popular enough that he realises that enough people will be willing to pay the increased price that it outweighs those who will no longer buy it due to the price increase. In order to increase the price and not break his commitment, Notch must declare 'beta'. It's simple economics.
To think that there is any internal change in their view of where the game is at on the 20th is naive in the extreme. It's still at the same basic point internally, its just an external tag they have changed in order to make the fledgling company more profitable .
So relax, a tag is changing and that's it. My guess though is that what should be the real 'beta' will actually be declared the release and then it'll be a while until the game is actually as polished as a release should be. This has very much been the pattern with first time developers like this and I'm ok with that... but I'm sure we'll see another complaint thread when we reach that point too.
If you give someone "grief" you are a "Griever". The forums spell-check dictionary is going by this definition:
grieve (grv)
v. grieved, griev·ing, grieves
v.tr.
1. To cause to be sorrowful; distress: It grieves me to see you in such pain.
2. To mourn or sorrow for: We grieved the death of our pastor.
3. Usage Problem To file an official or formal grievance on account of (an actual or perceived injustice).
4. Archaic To hurt or harm.
v.intr.
To experience or express grief.
Sorry but you asked "why?" and I answered.
By your correct definition, if you are a griever you are the one that is hurt. If you greive you are also the one that is hurt. But I see where you are coming from. I don't see many people use the term griever to describe a person who enjoys hurting others so I figure the most used term, griefer should be a legitimate spelling. But we can agree to disagree. :smile.gif:
If it isn't in the singleplayer, why are we wondering why it isn't in the multiplayer? That is an incomplete feature. Notch himself has said that Minecraft will probably never be feature complete. This makes sense, as there are literally thousands of possible additions that could be thrown in there (something our own suggestions sub-forum can attest to). Notch has said on his blog that beta will consist mainly of more content. He is working endlessly on what is probably one huge update that will bring the game around to Beta. Right now is the time for bug fixes. Soon will come the harvest of nifty new stuff. Personally I'm more interested in polish and new stuff that I can use to make puzzles for the upcoming Adventure mode than bugs. I am fully assured that Notch will squish all the bugs, out witch all the glitches, and start the reach for new features ASAP.
I believe this game made itself well worth my thirteen American dollars within the first week I played it. Everything I've gotten after that has been cream cheese icing on the carrot cake.
well if he added carrots you can use wheat, eggs, and milk to make a carrot cake but as i pointed out the last two ingredients dont even work yet.
and
to make a churn to make you some cream cheese... but this and my above statement better be implemented before beta.
firstly: LOL@all the non programmers trying to argue what terms like Alpha and Beta mean in terms of software development.
Secondly: The reason notch is progressing to Beta has nothing to do with a technical point the game has reached and everything to do with a financial point it has reached.
Notch has said the game will be a certain price during alpha and it will go up during beta.
Minecraft has become well known and popular enough that he realises that enough people will be willing to pay the increased price that it outweighs those who will no longer buy it due to the price increase. In order to increase the price and not break his commitment, Notch must declare 'beta'. It's simple economics.
To think that there is any internal change in their view of where the game is at on the 20th is naive in the extreme. It's still at the same basic point internally, its just an external tag they have changed in order to make the fledgling company more profitable .
So relax, a tag is changing and that's it. My guess though is that what should be the real 'beta' will actually be declared the release and then it'll be a while until the game is actually as polished as a release should be. This has very much been the pattern with first time developers like this and I'm ok with that... but I'm sure we'll see another complaint thread when we reach that point too.
Vhaluus, Thank you for posting a constructive hypothesis of what may actually be happening with the Alpha/Beta switch.
I am sorry that my OPINION thread stating mearly that stability of the SMP product has suffered greatly over the last two months has been turned into a complaint thread. At this point my hope is that this thread will either be locked or that no one else will post in it. For the most part the discussion was off topic, has not been constructive and at some points has become barbarous. Before this thread fades I would like to state some items of interest to me...
Notch can do anything he wants to with Minecraft, it is his product.
Beta implementations will always have bugs and may not be feature complete.
By release I am sure the SMP product will have all the modules required to be a mature product
You're acting like the only part of the game worth anything is the multiplayer aspect. Single Player Survival is a very polished part of Minecraft, and it going into Beta seems perfect to me.
You, sir, make an excellent point. Think about all the great games that are released (as finished products) and the multiplayer is glitch-tastic. Minecraft isn't an MMO. SMP is an additional feature, not the main game. I'm sure some people will say that they buy games (for example an FPS game like Black Ops) just for the online play but if they never play the single player they're basically ignoring 80%+ of the game itself. Minecraft is different, in that there isn't a story mode or levels to complete, but the same is generally true. "Survival Mode" will always be less survival-esque with multiple players if there is any cooperation between them at all.
I have to agree. I don't think the game is ready for BETA either. In my opinion ( I can be completely wrong) I think Notch wants to release beta as soon as he can so that
1. He can charge full price on a game that isn't finished being developed.
2. So later in the future he can charge users for updates.
Anyone who has already bought minecraft before beta will get these updates for free. So my assumption was that anyone who buys the game in or after beta will have to pay for upcoming updates.
I have to agree. I don't think the game is ready for BETA either. In my opinion ( I can be completely wrong) I think Notch wants to release beta as soon as he can so that
1. He can charge full price on a game that isn't finished being developed.
2. So later in the future he can charge users for updates.
Anyone who has already bought minecraft before beta will get these updates for free. So my assumption was that anyone who buys the game in or after beta will have to pay for upcoming updates.
Makes sense, cause he mentioned having a type of DLC which would be free for alpha users but not for beta, on Twitter. But who isn't money hungry these days right?
You're acting like the only part of the game worth anything is the multiplayer aspect. Single Player Survival is a very polished part of Minecraft, and it going into Beta seems perfect to me.
You, sir, make an excellent point. Think about all the great games that are released (as finished products) and the multiplayer is glitch-tastic. Minecraft isn't an MMO. SMP is an additional feature, not the main game. I'm sure some people will say that they buy games (for example an FPS game like Black Ops) just for the online play but if they never play the single player they're basically ignoring 80%+ of the game itself. Minecraft is different, in that there isn't a story mode or levels to complete, but the same is generally true. "Survival Mode" will always be less survival-esque with multiple players if there is any cooperation between them at all.
I see what you guys mean there but multiplayer is the big thing nowadays. If you look at the whole picture multiplayer accounts for a much larger percentage overall. If SMP wasnt here, IMO, it wouldnt be nearly as successful as it is right now.
minecraft not an MMO? have you not been on many servers? the only thing holding this game back from being a true MMO is the server performance issues and/or lack of a giant dedicated server clusters that are able to hold 1000 clients. IMHO it has chance at being a great MMO due to the fact at how customizable it is ATM.
so from notch's standpoint...who cares if people ignore 80% of black ops? both types of people paid ~$60 for it right? who is more likely going to get expansions and bonus content?
Notch doesn't need the approval of every armchair programmer on these forums to proceed with his business plan.
I never said that he did, I am only offering my observation of just one facet of the product. And as for your reference to armchair programmer, I think it is a futile attempt to make you feel better about your weak post. Professionals working in commercial applications development for more years than most players may have been alive on this earth I think qualifies them for something a bit higher than a title of armchair programmer.
Actually, you pretty much straight up said the game "Isn't anywhere near ready for Beta.."i.e. you don't approve. . That is all.
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I usually cram a few oreos into my CD tray to keep it running smoothly.
-TimmySteve
In the end it is his decsion to decide, Not ours, If he thinks it's ready then let it be.
YOUR RIGHT, NO USER INPUT ALLOWED
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Notch doesn't need the approval of every armchair programmer on these forums to proceed with his business plan.
I never said that he did, I am only offering my observation of just one facet of the product. And as for your reference to armchair programmer, I think it is a futile attempt to make you feel better about your weak post. Professionals working in commercial applications development for more years than most players may have been alive on this earth I think qualifies them for something a bit higher than a title of armchair programmer.
Actually, you pretty much straight up said the game "Isn't anywhere near ready for Beta.."i.e. you don't approve. . That is all.
And how is the whole "approval" thing relevant to the topic at all? That's not all.
I don't understand this accusation. This thread has been shockingly troll defecient. A troll would post: "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED" and leave it at that. Read the forum rules and note that the mods don't even approve of accusing another person of being a troll... you troll.
Quote from vicflo »
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You're acting like the only part of the game worth anything is the multiplayer aspect. Single Player Survival is a very polished part of Minecraft, and it going into Beta seems perfect to me.
You, sir, make an excellent point. Think about all the great games that are released (as finished products) and the multiplayer is glitch-tastic. Minecraft isn't an MMO. SMP is an additional feature, not the main game. I'm sure some people will say that they buy games (for example an FPS game like Black Ops) just for the online play but if they never play the single player they're basically ignoring 80%+ of the game itself. Minecraft is different, in that there isn't a story mode or levels to complete, but the same is generally true. "Survival Mode" will always be less survival-esque with multiple players if there is any cooperation between them at all.
I see what you guys mean there but multiplayer is the big thing nowadays. If you look at the whole picture multiplayer accounts for a much larger percentage overall. If SMP wasnt here, IMO, it wouldnt be nearly as successful as it is right now.
minecraft not an MMO? have you not been on many servers? the only thing holding this game back from being a true MMO is the server performance issues and/or lack of a giant dedicated server clusters that are able to hold 1000 clients. IMHO it has chance at being a great MMO due to the fact at how customizable it is ATM.
so from notch's standpoint...who cares if people ignore 80% of black ops? both types of people paid ~$60 for it right? who is more likely going to get expansions and bonus content?
I agree that Minecraft has potential to be very MMO-esque and I sincerely hope Notch continues development in that direction (minus hosting public servers and charging monthly access fees). But it is not currently, and might never be, worthy of the MMO genre label. I don't think Notch has said anything remotely close to this subject so no one really knows. But let's take another game, which is very MMO-esque as an example. Neverwinter Nights is D&D RPG for PC and it's users enjoy flexible online play as an additional feature to the solo game. The online play offers world building options and is, to this day, still enjoyed by many die hard fans of the series; many of whom play online campaigns. However, Neverwinter Nights is not classified as an MMORPG. Even if Minecraft was updated ad infinitum, to the point where it is as complicated or more complicated than Neverwinter Nights, it will still not be re-classified as an MMO. Die-hard fans like myself (I admin an SMP server) will play it as obsessively as an MMO but that does not make it so.
If you give someone "grief" you are a "Griever". The forums spell-check dictionary is going by this definition:
grieve (grv)
v. grieved, griev·ing, grieves
v.tr.
1. To cause to be sorrowful; distress: It grieves me to see you in such pain.
2. To mourn or sorrow for: We grieved the death of our pastor.
3. Usage Problem To file an official or formal grievance on account of (an actual or perceived injustice).
4. Archaic To hurt or harm.
v.intr.
To experience or express grief.
Sorry but you asked "why?" and I answered.
Customer Support
Then what about the egg and milk issue.
If it isn't in the singleplayer, why are we wondering why it isn't in the multiplayer? That is an incomplete feature. Notch himself has said that Minecraft will probably never be feature complete. This makes sense, as there are literally thousands of possible additions that could be thrown in there (something our own suggestions sub-forum can attest to). Notch has said on his blog that beta will consist mainly of more content. He is working endlessly on what is probably one huge update that will bring the game around to Beta. Right now is the time for bug fixes. Soon will come the harvest of nifty new stuff. Personally I'm more interested in polish and new stuff that I can use to make puzzles for the upcoming Adventure mode than bugs. I am fully assured that Notch will squish all the bugs, out witch all the glitches, and start the reach for new features ASAP.
I believe this game made itself well worth my thirteen American dollars within the first week I played it. Everything I've gotten after that has been cream cheese icing on the carrot cake.
Ever.
In ten years of beta testing games.
In every single beta test I have ever participated in the game has been buggy and incomplete... Heck, most of them went on to *release* as buggy and incomplete.
It's all well and good to post the dictionary or wiki definitions of what "alpha" and "beta" mean, but the fact is that in the real world of game development, that's almost never the way it actually happens.
I've already bought the game, I don't really care what stage he considers it to be in. I just don't see what difference it makes. Either way he's still working on it and we're still getting updates.
Hell, he could call it the "rabid-wet-dead-half-eaten-squirrel" stage for all I care. It changes nothing.
By your correct definition, if you are a griever you are the one that is hurt. If you greive you are also the one that is hurt. But I see where you are coming from. I don't see many people use the term griever to describe a person who enjoys hurting others so I figure the most used term, griefer should be a legitimate spelling. But we can agree to disagree. :smile.gif:
Take this Wire article for instance: http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworl ... ntPage=all
Secondly: The reason notch is progressing to Beta has nothing to do with a technical point the game has reached and everything to do with a financial point it has reached.
Notch has said the game will be a certain price during alpha and it will go up during beta.
Minecraft has become well known and popular enough that he realises that enough people will be willing to pay the increased price that it outweighs those who will no longer buy it due to the price increase. In order to increase the price and not break his commitment, Notch must declare 'beta'. It's simple economics.
To think that there is any internal change in their view of where the game is at on the 20th is naive in the extreme. It's still at the same basic point internally, its just an external tag they have changed in order to make the fledgling company more profitable .
So relax, a tag is changing and that's it. My guess though is that what should be the real 'beta' will actually be declared the release and then it'll be a while until the game is actually as polished as a release should be. This has very much been the pattern with first time developers like this and I'm ok with that... but I'm sure we'll see another complaint thread when we reach that point too.
Except the correct online colloquialism is 'Griefer' not 'griever' making this argument rather moot.
well if he added carrots you can use wheat, eggs, and milk to make a carrot cake but as i pointed out the last two ingredients dont even work yet.
and
to make a churn to make you some cream cheese... but this and my above statement better be implemented before beta.
Vhaluus, Thank you for posting a constructive hypothesis of what may actually be happening with the Alpha/Beta switch.
I am sorry that my OPINION thread stating mearly that stability of the SMP product has suffered greatly over the last two months has been turned into a complaint thread. At this point my hope is that this thread will either be locked or that no one else will post in it. For the most part the discussion was off topic, has not been constructive and at some points has become barbarous. Before this thread fades I would like to state some items of interest to me...
Notch can do anything he wants to with Minecraft, it is his product.
Beta implementations will always have bugs and may not be feature complete.
By release I am sure the SMP product will have all the modules required to be a mature product
In 100 years none of this will matter to anyone.
You, sir, make an excellent point. Think about all the great games that are released (as finished products) and the multiplayer is glitch-tastic. Minecraft isn't an MMO. SMP is an additional feature, not the main game. I'm sure some people will say that they buy games (for example an FPS game like Black Ops) just for the online play but if they never play the single player they're basically ignoring 80%+ of the game itself. Minecraft is different, in that there isn't a story mode or levels to complete, but the same is generally true. "Survival Mode" will always be less survival-esque with multiple players if there is any cooperation between them at all.
I have to agree. I don't think the game is ready for BETA either. In my opinion ( I can be completely wrong) I think Notch wants to release beta as soon as he can so that
1. He can charge full price on a game that isn't finished being developed.
2. So later in the future he can charge users for updates.
Anyone who has already bought minecraft before beta will get these updates for free. So my assumption was that anyone who buys the game in or after beta will have to pay for upcoming updates.
Makes sense, cause he mentioned having a type of DLC which would be free for alpha users but not for beta, on Twitter. But who isn't money hungry these days right?
I see what you guys mean there but multiplayer is the big thing nowadays. If you look at the whole picture multiplayer accounts for a much larger percentage overall. If SMP wasnt here, IMO, it wouldnt be nearly as successful as it is right now.
minecraft not an MMO? have you not been on many servers? the only thing holding this game back from being a true MMO is the server performance issues and/or lack of a giant dedicated server clusters that are able to hold 1000 clients. IMHO it has chance at being a great MMO due to the fact at how customizable it is ATM.
so from notch's standpoint...who cares if people ignore 80% of black ops? both types of people paid ~$60 for it right? who is more likely going to get expansions and bonus content?
Actually, you pretty much straight up said the game "Isn't anywhere near ready for Beta.."i.e. you don't approve. . That is all.
I usually cram a few oreos into my CD tray to keep it running smoothly.
-TimmySteve
YOUR RIGHT, NO USER INPUT ALLOWED
And how is the whole "approval" thing relevant to the topic at all? That's not all.
I don't understand this accusation. This thread has been shockingly troll defecient. A troll would post: "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED" and leave it at that. Read the forum rules and note that the mods don't even approve of accusing another person of being a troll... you troll.
I agree that Minecraft has potential to be very MMO-esque and I sincerely hope Notch continues development in that direction (minus hosting public servers and charging monthly access fees). But it is not currently, and might never be, worthy of the MMO genre label. I don't think Notch has said anything remotely close to this subject so no one really knows. But let's take another game, which is very MMO-esque as an example. Neverwinter Nights is D&D RPG for PC and it's users enjoy flexible online play as an additional feature to the solo game. The online play offers world building options and is, to this day, still enjoyed by many die hard fans of the series; many of whom play online campaigns. However, Neverwinter Nights is not classified as an MMORPG. Even if Minecraft was updated ad infinitum, to the point where it is as complicated or more complicated than Neverwinter Nights, it will still not be re-classified as an MMO. Die-hard fans like myself (I admin an SMP server) will play it as obsessively as an MMO but that does not make it so.