I trust the game will get fixed. I do hope Notch makes the errors in SMP created by his last two major updates the focus of his coding in the immediate future. He doesn't seem particularly troubled by the problems these rounds of coding
See, here's a flaw with the argument that I shouldn't complain and should just go away until a finished build of the game is made. When agreeing to buy the game, Notch states:
"When you purchase the game, you pay for it as it is right now. Future updates are an added bonus."
When I purchased the game, it had a functional multiplayer component, and I bought it because at that moment I could play it with my friends on their server. At that time, it basically worked fine and its few bugs were limited and harmless. However, since then, some of these "bonus" updates have stripped out or undermined functionality that existed almost 3 months ago when I purchased it, to the point where this update makes the game virtually unplayable.
I'm not saying that Notch isn't holding up his end of the contract. I am, however, expressing my exhaustion with not knowing whether the functioning game I was told I was paying for as it was when I bought it is actually going to function when I want to play it.
Wow... YOU'RE RIGHT!!! But, it was an accidental discovery... and not everyone has been so lucky!!
GO "BURNING DOG"!!! SHARE YOUR WISDOM WITH THE REST OF US IGNORANT ONES SO THAT WE MAY GROW AND PROSPER AS YOU HAVE DONE!!!
I'm sensing some animosity between us.
Haha... nah man. Sorry. I'm just goofing around and generally not taking the thread seriously because, well, there's nothing serious about it.
But to be serious again... I don't have a superiority complex. I don't even like saying what I'm about to say. But I'm seriously too old for these forums. The way these teenagers act makes me feel sick to my stomach ... the Minecraft community is so infested with fail that it's almost amazing in a way. And if anyone truly denys this with conviction, then YOU are part of the fail and you can't even see it.
The problem as I see it, is people getting too worked up about a GAME. Yea, perhaps Notch should have a opt in type thing to test out the latest release, perhaps a dedicated test server. But yelling that with caps and generic annoyances will not help or will help very little.
I know that scripting is hard at least for one who knows little of it, such as me. And if you get yelled at by people about how bad something you made is because they wanted it as soon as they could, and you are expected to work at least 8 hours a day on coding I know I would probably take some time off work and do something such as play games. You need time to relax if you want to do better work than just chugging away at it for hours on end.
Some people just need to relax, specially those who feel like they should have everything, Wait until the team that is Mojang starts to work together better and you should see better updates, or so I think
/end
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The tesseract messes with your mind
What if it were a block?
Don't like the game or the way it's run? Stop playing it, stop coming to the forums and the game will die. I'm quite positive that you have already gotten your moneys worth and then some. What we need is a war, and to send all you entitlement brats off to die in it.
This is the best thing I've seen on the internet in awhile, I couldn't agree more with us needing world war 3, this generation needs something to cling to beside their egos, and E gadgets, this society needs to be humbled badly. I mean hell there are starving people in many countries... hell even on the streets in my own city, and your pissed because you can't play with blocks in a video game for one day. You kids are an embarrassment to humanity. All this struggle your parents and grandparents went through, and all you do is ***** about non-issues, grow up and get real problems.
"Oh, it's an alpha." That's no excuse for Notch not at the very least playtesting his game. This may be an inde game, but he's VERY WELL ****ING FUNDED for it. You can try using that excuse all you like, but it doesn't matter. All you're doing is sucking up and bending over backward for Notch. He NEEDS to learn to playtest his stuff BEFORE releasing it.
He has the funds. He makes more in a SINGLE DAY then most people make IN A YEAR. He has every resource that he could ever want to make this. And yet. And yet we get these SHITTY updates that only break more things. Why the HELL are you defending him? You paid money for a game. Would you defend it if this was a normal game developer that released a product with bugs that make it, often times, unplayable? No, you wouldn't. And those that do are merely asskissers. Call me whiny if you want, but know that we're right.
He has the funds.
He has the time.
All he needs is to stop being lazy, and either hire a small testing team that can test his updates BEFORE actually releasing them. This is not a mere "indie" game, anymore, whether you think it is or not. It's a multimillion-dollar game.
I love how no one realizes Notch has ZERO legal obligation to continue working on minecraft at all. He started this as a hobby and a way to pay the bare minimum bills. People outta be more grateful, even though it's incredibly obnoxious to run into these constant bugs.
Protip: get the server admin to turn the monsters and health off.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah...I jumped on the bandwagon...now feed the damn egg.
Haha... nah man. Sorry. I'm just goofing around and generally not taking the thread seriously because, well, there's nothing serious about it.
But to be serious again... I don't have a superiority complex. I don't even like saying what I'm about to say. But I'm seriously too old for these forums. The way these teenagers act makes me feel sick to my stomach ... the Minecraft community is so infested with fail that it's almost amazing in a way. And if anyone truly denys this with conviction, then YOU are part of the fail and you can't even see it.
Yeah, I raged on a private forum I go to about the Minecraft community a while ago to the two other people there who have the game and the three who want to buy in but lack the means. However, on the bright side it's fairly apparant that Notch can shrug off the idiocy that surrounds the some of his game's players and continue development on an awesome product. Plus, the steps he is taking towards increasing the work force involved in the game and such shows that soon severely buggy alpha releases will be a thing of the past.
Until then, us mature folks who don't feel the need to rage about how the features we want weren't implemented and then rage about how they were implemented but with some bugs and then rage about ... I'm going to stop there, because it seems like a terrible cycle of entitlement driven rage that does nothing but make the ragers look like immature tools. I can wait a week to have a working SMP (with health and mobs! *squee*) without spouting a bunch of slanderous trash on a forum to make myself look like a ***** and feel good about giving someone who won't bother reading my angsty rage a piece of my mind.
I love how no one realizes Notch has ZERO legal obligation to continue working on minecraft at all. He started this as a hobby and a way to pay the bare minimum bills. People outta be more grateful, even though it's incredibly obnoxious to run into these constant bugs.
Protip: get the server admin to turn the monsters and health off.
We ought to be more grateful? Notch is the millionaire here.
I support Notch, I think he's doing very well for someone trying to found a business (I have been there). He is developing a great and innovative game essentially by himself. I expect even greater accomplishments once he has his team moved into the office.
But, Minecraft is not an alpha test, it has not been since it has been exchanged for money. Legal obligation or not Notch has a moral obligation to update the game to the best of his ability and perform a basic level of QA on his updates. I'm sure there are any number of players and server administrators who would jump at the opportunity test patches prior to release and provide basic feedback identifying obvious bugs.
Today for example would have gone something like this:
08:00 Notch e-mails updated minecraft.jar and minecraft_server.jar to a few dozen selected players.
08:10 A few swift players immediately point out that the update corrupts saves and any player logging in crashes the server.
09:00 Notch e-mails fixed versions for further testing.
09:10 Players note that mob positioning feels laggy, there is some inconsistency in the application of damage, armor is invisible and sheep don't update their graphic when they lose wool.
09:30 Notch decides these bugs are acceptable for a public release and releases the update.
This would have been leagues ahead of corrupting unknown numbers of save files of players who updated their software in good faith.
He's right, though. This ISN'T an alpha. You can't charge for an alpha. Because it's not a full product. You can defend him all you want, but the fact of the matter is that HE DOESN'T EVEN TRY. If he tried, he'd've set up some kind of testing system AND bug-filing system.
But he hasn't, much to his own stupidity and everyone elses dismay.
No sane person thinks he works 12 hours a day on MC, nor should he, or do you work 12 hours a day on anything? Do you work at all?
I agree with everything you say but this. Some coders do 36 hour coding runs, where they code for 36 hours straight to immerce themselves. Notch, however, is a 40 year old man who is getting married, moving into an office, dealing with buisness meetings, dealing with his socal life and then this game. He has alot on his plate, so tbh im so surprised he has released SMP health so soon! Remember, notch has to do alot more than coding to make this game work. He's trying his best and he's putting more effert in than he should. Frankly, he should have put less effert in in the first place to stop people expecting that level of dedication. How can a human run on that kind of stress/energy level?
08:00 Notch e-mails updated minecraft.jar and minecraft_server.jar to a few dozen selected players.
08:10 A few swift players immediately point out that the update corrupts saves and any player logging in crashes the server.
09:00 Notch e-mails fixed versions for further testing.
09:10 Players note that mob positioning feels laggy, there is some inconsistency in the application of damage, armor is invisible and sheep don't update their graphic when they lose wool.
09:30 Notch decides these bugs are acceptable for a public release and releases the update.
Lets change that to a more realistic viewpoint.
Day 1:
8:00 Notch e-mails updated minecraft.jar and minecraft_server.jar to a few dozen selected players.
9:00 A few swift players realise they've been selected to do bugtesting.
9:30 Bugtesters spend 30 mins wasting time
10:00 A few swift players immediately point out that the update corrupts saves and any player logging in crashes the server.
10:30 Notch recives and reads emails - Getting to work on fixing.
Day 2:
8:00 Notch e-mails fixed versions for further testing.
9:00 Players note that mob positioning feels laggy
9:30 Players find there is some inconsistency in the application of damage
10:00 They find that armor is invisible
10:30 Players realise that sheep don't update their graphic when they lose wool.
11:00 Notch gets to work - But is caught in a meeting so is postponed.
Day 3:
8:00 Notch unpacks more for office
9:00 Notch gets to work
12:00 Meeting across town for lunch
2:00 Gets back to office
2:30 Checked emails - gets to work
4:30 Buisness phone calls
6:30 Drive home.
Day 4:
8:00 Unpacks for office
10:00 Get to work
12:00 Lunch
1:00 Back to work
2:30 Afternoon tea with buisness partner
3:30 Checks emails
4:30 Gets back to work
6:30 Heads home from office.
Day 5:
8:00 Unpacks more for office
9:00 Does work
11:00 Notch releases update, monitors process
12:00 Lunch
1:00 Resume reading emails about bugs
4:00 Gets to work
6:30 Heads home.
There we go - almost a full working week for bugfixes. In this time he would be recieving countless emails complaining about the lack of updates (hence the 'check emails). You need to realise that coding isnt his full life, and that by complaining and annoying him more will make him unmotivated.
I love how no one realizes Notch has ZERO legal obligation to continue working on minecraft at all. He started this as a hobby and a way to pay the bare minimum bills. People outta be more grateful, even though it's incredibly obnoxious to run into these constant bugs.
Protip: get the server admin to turn the monsters and health off.
We ought to be more grateful? Notch is the millionaire here.
I support Notch, I think he's doing very well for someone trying to found a business (I have been there). He is developing a great and innovative game essentially by himself. I expect even greater accomplishments once he has his team moved into the office.
But, Minecraft is not an alpha test, it has not been since it has been exchanged for money. Legal obligation or not Notch has a moral obligation to update the game to the best of his ability and perform a basic level of QA on his updates. I'm sure there are any number of players and server administrators who would jump at the opportunity test patches prior to release and provide basic feedback identifying obvious bugs.
Today for example would have gone something like this:
08:00 Notch e-mails updated minecraft.jar and minecraft_server.jar to a few dozen selected players.
08:10 A few swift players immediately point out that the update corrupts saves and any player logging in crashes the server.
09:00 Notch e-mails fixed versions for further testing.
09:10 Players note that mob positioning feels laggy, there is some inconsistency in the application of damage, armor is invisible and sheep don't update their graphic when they lose wool.
09:30 Notch decides these bugs are acceptable for a public release and releases the update.
This would have been leagues ahead of corrupting unknown numbers of save files of players who updated their software in good faith.
+9001 internets for the idea of a team of pre-release testers, but the point I was trying to make is this: Notch got figuratively skyrocketed to the center spotlight of indie/alternative gaming in a period of a couple months, and so far he's gotten nothing but ill-tempered brats to babysit in response. And also realize that my aim is not at people similar to you (reasonable, thinking individuals) but rather, at the "I want everything perfect, and I want it now" crowd.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah...I jumped on the bandwagon...now feed the damn egg.
The Notch Defense Force is so ****ing obnoxious and smugly indignant it makes me vomit. "This game is in ALPHA", "If you don't like it don't play!", "You kids are immature, learn to deal with it!", "Notch is a one man team and is working HARD!".
[Cut to avoid wall of text]
I'm not under the impression that notch is spending 8+ hours a day on this, especially when he's just getting his company started. If he WAS spending 8+ hours a day working on this thing, we'd have reason to worry - he'd probably end up sick of it, and we wouldn't get any farther. People who complain about the rate of development really must not understand creativity and motivation. Once his company is established, it'll be back to secret Fridays.
"breaks more than he ever fixes.. ever" For this to be true, Notch must have wrote several thousand flawless lines of code, or Minecraft wouldn't run. at all. Incredibly unlikely, and it's obviously your opinion. If you want "The Notch Defense Force" to leave, or join you, try using facts. I have no motivation to defend notch - if I felt I wasn't getting my $10 worth, I'd be bitching too - but there's little to no evidence, just opinions from impatient people.
"None of your usual spam of defense means anything to these facts." << I'm curious, what facts? I haven't seen any, certainly not in your post anyways.
Also, just a note on "It's time to hand the game over to some people who know what they're doing"
Notch is using a technique known as agile. What this means is that there is little to no documentation, so the new people would need to spend roughly a month analyzing the code to find out what's what. Even after, it's unlikely that the development would proceed faster or be flawless, because the number of people you throw at a project complicates things. The amount of money thrown at it doesn't help either in most cases, but with an in-house artist he won't have to spend time working on the textures or models anymore. As it is, getting the new programmer up to speed will probably take a few weeks.
"...MONTHS of broken, shitty coding..." and a few other statements suggest you "knew" notch was a shitty coder for a while now. If you knew that, why didn't you make a backup? you had plenty of time, and then you could just rollback to the previous installation that worked.
"Just put it all in your sigs and stop posting" Just saying, this nugget works both ways.
"people who legitimately want to *****" Legitimate bitching? please. Definition taken from Wikipedia:
"To criticize (something) spitefully, often for the sake of complaining rather than in order to have the problem corrected." AKA there's nothing legitimate about it.
"None of your usual spam of defense" I hope this dissection will atone for the "usual spam of defense" you've endured. By the way, your usual spam of offense is clogging up the boards.
PS: Once Notch is done with Minecraft, he said he plans to release the source code online. He won't be "leaving MC to fall apart", he'll be giving it to the fans.
Wow... YOU'RE RIGHT!!! But, it was an accidental discovery... and not everyone has been so lucky!!
GO "BURNING DOG"!!! SHARE YOUR WISDOM WITH THE REST OF US IGNORANT ONES SO THAT WE MAY GROW AND PROSPER AS YOU HAVE DONE!!!
See, here's a flaw with the argument that I shouldn't complain and should just go away until a finished build of the game is made. When agreeing to buy the game, Notch states:
"When you purchase the game, you pay for it as it is right now. Future updates are an added bonus."
When I purchased the game, it had a functional multiplayer component, and I bought it because at that moment I could play it with my friends on their server. At that time, it basically worked fine and its few bugs were limited and harmless. However, since then, some of these "bonus" updates have stripped out or undermined functionality that existed almost 3 months ago when I purchased it, to the point where this update makes the game virtually unplayable.
I'm not saying that Notch isn't holding up his end of the contract. I am, however, expressing my exhaustion with not knowing whether the functioning game I was told I was paying for as it was when I bought it is actually going to function when I want to play it.
I'm sensing some animosity between us.
Haha... nah man. Sorry. I'm just goofing around and generally not taking the thread seriously because, well, there's nothing serious about it.
But to be serious again... I don't have a superiority complex. I don't even like saying what I'm about to say. But I'm seriously too old for these forums. The way these teenagers act makes me feel sick to my stomach ... the Minecraft community is so infested with fail that it's almost amazing in a way. And if anyone truly denys this with conviction, then YOU are part of the fail and you can't even see it.
I know that scripting is hard at least for one who knows little of it, such as me. And if you get yelled at by people about how bad something you made is because they wanted it as soon as they could, and you are expected to work at least 8 hours a day on coding I know I would probably take some time off work and do something such as play games. You need time to relax if you want to do better work than just chugging away at it for hours on end.
Some people just need to relax, specially those who feel like they should have everything, Wait until the team that is Mojang starts to work together better and you should see better updates, or so I think
/end
What if it were a block?
This is the best thing I've seen on the internet in awhile, I couldn't agree more with us needing world war 3, this generation needs something to cling to beside their egos, and E gadgets, this society needs to be humbled badly. I mean hell there are starving people in many countries... hell even on the streets in my own city, and your pissed because you can't play with blocks in a video game for one day. You kids are an embarrassment to humanity. All this struggle your parents and grandparents went through, and all you do is ***** about non-issues, grow up and get real problems.
True, I thought it was more around 40 :tongue.gif: Even at 60 FPS and above, you can still tell when a frame has been dropped though :smile.gif:
Ignore the whining, self entitled on this forum Notch, we finally have SMP health :happy.gif:
Be patient and wait for the bug fixes :smile.gif:
He has the funds. He makes more in a SINGLE DAY then most people make IN A YEAR. He has every resource that he could ever want to make this. And yet. And yet we get these SHITTY updates that only break more things. Why the HELL are you defending him? You paid money for a game. Would you defend it if this was a normal game developer that released a product with bugs that make it, often times, unplayable? No, you wouldn't. And those that do are merely asskissers. Call me whiny if you want, but know that we're right.
He has the funds.
He has the time.
All he needs is to stop being lazy, and either hire a small testing team that can test his updates BEFORE actually releasing them. This is not a mere "indie" game, anymore, whether you think it is or not. It's a multimillion-dollar game.
Protip: get the server admin to turn the monsters and health off.
Yeah...I jumped on the bandwagon...now feed the damn egg.
(Yes I am somewhat picking on you for posting this.)
Did you know, that almost every conflict in history can be simplified to a mindlessly numb level with the sentence:
The problem as I see it, is people getting too worked up about ______ .
Try it, it is fun .. substitute in other words: "religion" "politics" "their cats" "deep dish pizza" ... anything works.
Granted. I'm glad I get to play this unique, creative game despite all the banter. My point, however, was that this whole thread is absurd.
Seriously, everyone read this ... I'm so tired of the old "Alpha" excuse.
Yeah, I raged on a private forum I go to about the Minecraft community a while ago to the two other people there who have the game and the three who want to buy in but lack the means. However, on the bright side it's fairly apparant that Notch can shrug off the idiocy that surrounds the some of his game's players and continue development on an awesome product. Plus, the steps he is taking towards increasing the work force involved in the game and such shows that soon severely buggy alpha releases will be a thing of the past.
Until then, us mature folks who don't feel the need to rage about how the features we want weren't implemented and then rage about how they were implemented but with some bugs and then rage about ... I'm going to stop there, because it seems like a terrible cycle of entitlement driven rage that does nothing but make the ragers look like immature tools. I can wait a week to have a working SMP (with health and mobs! *squee*) without spouting a bunch of slanderous trash on a forum to make myself look like a ***** and feel good about giving someone who won't bother reading my angsty rage a piece of my mind.
We ought to be more grateful? Notch is the millionaire here.
I support Notch, I think he's doing very well for someone trying to found a business (I have been there). He is developing a great and innovative game essentially by himself. I expect even greater accomplishments once he has his team moved into the office.
But, Minecraft is not an alpha test, it has not been since it has been exchanged for money. Legal obligation or not Notch has a moral obligation to update the game to the best of his ability and perform a basic level of QA on his updates. I'm sure there are any number of players and server administrators who would jump at the opportunity test patches prior to release and provide basic feedback identifying obvious bugs.
Today for example would have gone something like this:
08:00 Notch e-mails updated minecraft.jar and minecraft_server.jar to a few dozen selected players.
08:10 A few swift players immediately point out that the update corrupts saves and any player logging in crashes the server.
09:00 Notch e-mails fixed versions for further testing.
09:10 Players note that mob positioning feels laggy, there is some inconsistency in the application of damage, armor is invisible and sheep don't update their graphic when they lose wool.
09:30 Notch decides these bugs are acceptable for a public release and releases the update.
This would have been leagues ahead of corrupting unknown numbers of save files of players who updated their software in good faith.
But he hasn't, much to his own stupidity and everyone elses dismay.
I agree with everything you say but this. Some coders do 36 hour coding runs, where they code for 36 hours straight to immerce themselves. Notch, however, is a 40 year old man who is getting married, moving into an office, dealing with buisness meetings, dealing with his socal life and then this game. He has alot on his plate, so tbh im so surprised he has released SMP health so soon! Remember, notch has to do alot more than coding to make this game work. He's trying his best and he's putting more effert in than he should. Frankly, he should have put less effert in in the first place to stop people expecting that level of dedication. How can a human run on that kind of stress/energy level?
Lets change that to a more realistic viewpoint.
Day 1:
8:00 Notch e-mails updated minecraft.jar and minecraft_server.jar to a few dozen selected players.
9:00 A few swift players realise they've been selected to do bugtesting.
9:30 Bugtesters spend 30 mins wasting time
10:00 A few swift players immediately point out that the update corrupts saves and any player logging in crashes the server.
10:30 Notch recives and reads emails - Getting to work on fixing.
Day 2:
8:00 Notch e-mails fixed versions for further testing.
9:00 Players note that mob positioning feels laggy
9:30 Players find there is some inconsistency in the application of damage
10:00 They find that armor is invisible
10:30 Players realise that sheep don't update their graphic when they lose wool.
11:00 Notch gets to work - But is caught in a meeting so is postponed.
Day 3:
8:00 Notch unpacks more for office
9:00 Notch gets to work
12:00 Meeting across town for lunch
2:00 Gets back to office
2:30 Checked emails - gets to work
4:30 Buisness phone calls
6:30 Drive home.
Day 4:
8:00 Unpacks for office
10:00 Get to work
12:00 Lunch
1:00 Back to work
2:30 Afternoon tea with buisness partner
3:30 Checks emails
4:30 Gets back to work
6:30 Heads home from office.
Day 5:
8:00 Unpacks more for office
9:00 Does work
11:00 Notch releases update, monitors process
12:00 Lunch
1:00 Resume reading emails about bugs
4:00 Gets to work
6:30 Heads home.
There we go - almost a full working week for bugfixes. In this time he would be recieving countless emails complaining about the lack of updates (hence the 'check emails). You need to realise that coding isnt his full life, and that by complaining and annoying him more will make him unmotivated.
+9001 internets for the idea of a team of pre-release testers, but the point I was trying to make is this: Notch got figuratively skyrocketed to the center spotlight of indie/alternative gaming in a period of a couple months, and so far he's gotten nothing but ill-tempered brats to babysit in response. And also realize that my aim is not at people similar to you (reasonable, thinking individuals) but rather, at the "I want everything perfect, and I want it now" crowd.
Yeah...I jumped on the bandwagon...now feed the damn egg.
I'm not under the impression that notch is spending 8+ hours a day on this, especially when he's just getting his company started. If he WAS spending 8+ hours a day working on this thing, we'd have reason to worry - he'd probably end up sick of it, and we wouldn't get any farther. People who complain about the rate of development really must not understand creativity and motivation. Once his company is established, it'll be back to secret Fridays.
"breaks more than he ever fixes.. ever" For this to be true, Notch must have wrote several thousand flawless lines of code, or Minecraft wouldn't run. at all. Incredibly unlikely, and it's obviously your opinion. If you want "The Notch Defense Force" to leave, or join you, try using facts. I have no motivation to defend notch - if I felt I wasn't getting my $10 worth, I'd be bitching too - but there's little to no evidence, just opinions from impatient people.
"None of your usual spam of defense means anything to these facts." << I'm curious, what facts? I haven't seen any, certainly not in your post anyways.
Also, just a note on "It's time to hand the game over to some people who know what they're doing"
Notch is using a technique known as agile. What this means is that there is little to no documentation, so the new people would need to spend roughly a month analyzing the code to find out what's what. Even after, it's unlikely that the development would proceed faster or be flawless, because the number of people you throw at a project complicates things. The amount of money thrown at it doesn't help either in most cases, but with an in-house artist he won't have to spend time working on the textures or models anymore. As it is, getting the new programmer up to speed will probably take a few weeks.
"...MONTHS of broken, shitty coding..." and a few other statements suggest you "knew" notch was a shitty coder for a while now. If you knew that, why didn't you make a backup? you had plenty of time, and then you could just rollback to the previous installation that worked.
"Just put it all in your sigs and stop posting" Just saying, this nugget works both ways.
"people who legitimately want to *****" Legitimate bitching? please. Definition taken from Wikipedia:
"To criticize (something) spitefully, often for the sake of complaining rather than in order to have the problem corrected." AKA there's nothing legitimate about it.
"None of your usual spam of defense" I hope this dissection will atone for the "usual spam of defense" you've endured. By the way, your usual spam of offense is clogging up the boards.
PS: Once Notch is done with Minecraft, he said he plans to release the source code online. He won't be "leaving MC to fall apart", he'll be giving it to the fans.