Apology or no apology, what you did there was not only wrong, but illegal in many countries including your own.
Also, it shouldn't of taken a whole community to make you realize you were wrong. You should of apologized there and then and removed the offending code right away.
Unfortunately, now knowing your previous background and everything, I won't touch any software you make with a ten foot pole. I also hope you do not plan on making a living out of development because your future employers won't be too fond of what you did either (yes, they do check your past). You pretty much ruined your career right there.
Also, I did contact federal police with everything that happened and sent them past binaries, chat logs, contact info and everything. I'm a strong believer in "actions having consequences" and they are investigating. What you did, again, was not only wrong, but illegal.
You're willing to possibly ruin a kids life over this? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i were you, that's worse than what he did in my eyes.
I'm not ruining anyone's life over... I was raised in such way that if I did something bad/really bad/illegal, I had to deal with the consequences of that action. I'll raise my children the same way.
I agree with others here, but would like to pose the question in a more civil tone:
Why is he not banned from the game and forums altogether?
You can see my theory on that at the bottom of the first page of this thread. So far its being conveniently ignored, leading me to believe I hit the nail on the head.
I would think it would have been better to apologize and then get a mod to lock the thread.
Doridian didn't ask for the thread to be locked, it was locked because it was generating a bunch of drama and no good would come of it being open.
Quote from MadMage86 »
I agree with others here, but would like to pose the question in a more civil tone:
Why is he not banned from the game and forums altogether?
I was in the process of investigating whether or not the claims of MCAdmin being considered malware or otherwise harmful software was accurate. In the end I concluded it probably was, but by then Doridian had apologized and changed it. It has been, and is being, discussed, but since the programming decision didn't appear to be malicious in intent and was changed promptly, so far I'm considering this an honest mistake. He has definitely payed for this mistake, here and elsewhere, so punishing him for the sake of punishment wouldn't accomplish anything except maybe make people feel a little more like justice was working smoothly. Hopefully my explanation will suffice there.
Quote from Jarerex »
You can see my theory on that at the bottom of the first page of this thread. So far its being conveniently ignored, leading me to believe I hit the nail on the head.
Your theory that he was exempt from banning because he was a donator, well, let me assure you that this is not the case. Donators are held to the same level as everyone else, and WILL get warned or banned. It kind of sucks, really, to ban someone from something they gave money to, but if it has to come down to it, that's the action that has to be taken.
This was not responded to earlier because there's a hell of a lot of stuff going on on these forums, and not many of us at the moment to sort through it, and so there was no one here to respond.
I would again like to assure you that this issue is being considered seriously, and something this complicated is not an issue that will be solved overnight... it takes some discussion to figure out the right action to take.
I'm not ruining anyone's life over... I was raised in such way that if I did something bad/really bad/illegal, I had to deal with the consequences of that action. I'll raise my children the same way.
Also, I did contact federal police with everything that happened and sent them past binaries, chat logs, contact info and everything. I'm a strong believer in "actions having consequences" and they are investigating. What you did, again, was not only wrong, but illegal.
Yes, because giving him a criminal record over a misunderstanding won't hurt him at all.
lol wow, lets makes a back door that allows me to upload malicious code and do whatever i feel with the persons box/network/information etc etc and when I get caught, an apology will fix everything! Don't worry guys it's a-ok now that I've said I'm sorry! I love seeing the people who are getting warned and banned for lashing out at this complete illegal invasion of privacy, meanwhile this moron gets to keep posting, promote his software and not get banned? Wow....
What's even more sad is this is the 3rd time I've written this post due to the vulgar and rage tastic nature of my previous versions.
Is this about turn more to do with the fact that you will get in trouble with the legal system if people take it forward, or an actual understanding of what you did was wrong and why so many turned against you because of it?
Yes, it took me that much to realize what I did was wrong.
I written my intentions for this "backdoor" quite clearly in the first post, I did never intend to use it to use it to ruin people's servers (and I did not abuse DevMode at all, I abused the killswitch [not disableable] and the global banlist [easily disableable by the server owner]).
I sersioulsy would not have given a damn if u did all that stuff on a server I ran using ur software. If I insualt the dev who gives me the BEST GUI interface for a server to date being GPL its well within your rights to remove such software from me at anytime that you see fit, Upgrade it and charge to remove these spying backdoors from your software, Provding the sotware warns you about the use of the Free version.
Secondly I dont agree with outright kicking people off there own servers and banning them, honestly just do my first paragraph release updated version that not under GPL for extras.
It is within your rights to charge for this software if you soo choose to do so for updated and monitor free soloutions,escp if there used for pay to play servers, I dont think pay to play servers should reap of others software. honestly this is getting close to the most user friendly server Id have ever used so far while maintaing some decent features. tho i dont use it now I use hey0's due to flexability (got off it long before I knew about this) But I would EASILY give u $30 to make ur GUI work for hey0.
I think you fail to realize something here tho.... if you told us from the very start that due to this software stayin free and updated u had such powers then others could have said well no thanks or fine by me and avoided this whole scenario.
I still trust you... hell from my point of view ur no different then Microsoft they have backdoors all over the shot and constanly there OS is always doing stuff u dont permit it to do like cough * touch Base* cough cough *send usage info* Cough.
and we all put up with that the difference is its made known by terms of use, so i say to all the people who decided they would tear u to fur balls, to harden the **** up its GPL if you dont like whats in it due it being free dont use it hes not forcing to stick with it. Honestly its just that freakin simple.
My last advice to you tho is just to keep doing it **** em, if they want to rid of it offer a one time dontaion cost to get a script to remove the spying. take Ubuntu for example everyone KNOWS.. and it plainly tells you that it collects information from time to time for security reasons.
anyway I cant really think of anything else to add to this so peace.. . oh yea ... Make me a hey0 plugin lol using ur gui :smile.gif:
You do also realize that his software was free and use was at own risk right? Which pretty much disclaims that.
Besides, name me ONE major software company that doesn't have 'backdoors' of some sort.
It's funny that everyone is so eager to say that major software companies have backdoors...
Let me put it this way... There is not ONE major software company that have code in place to remotely gain admin access on their software.
Not Microsoft, not Apple, not Oracle, not Google, not Adobe... NONE.
I'm not saying they couldn't deploy code to do so via the auto-update, but they don't have dispositions to do so right now and they never will. Why? Because it's illegal and they have gouv. agencies as customers.
I own a major software box. I didn't and will never implement backdoors into my products. If the customer needs support, we use LogMeIn. We don't just take control of their box without them knowing, they have to download the LMI client software, provide us with the randomly generated password and then we connect.
So stop using the defense saying that all major companies have backdoors. They don't.
Does it give Apple administrative access? No.
Does it provide Apple with SPECIFIC and PRIVATE configuration parameters? No
What you just linked above isn't a backdoor. It's a way to remotely disable applications that:
1. Was always clearly outlined in the EULA and reminded of when purchasing apps
2. Isn't hidden or kept secret
3. Is there to protect the user against malicious software what steal user info, give a malicious user root access to the phone, etc... (ie.: protect it against backdoors).
4. Doesn't give Apple ability to do nothing else except that.
Versus your app, which:
1. Had a hidden backdoor not mentioned in any EULA or note of any kind
2. Gave you full admin access on any MCAdmin server without authorization
3. Allowed you to make any changes you damn pleased without admin authorization
Does it give Apple administrative access? No.
Does it provide Apple with SPECIFIC and PRIVATE configuration parameters? No
What you just linked above isn't a backdoor. It's a way to remotely disable applications that:
1. Was always clearly outlined in the EULA and reminded of when purchasing apps
2. Isn't hidden or kept secret
3. Is there to protect the user against malicious software what steal user info, give a malicious user root access to the phone, etc... (ie.: protect it against backdoors).
Read the second link?
Now don't say "thats just for the government". Anyone could possibly crack that key given enough time.
Always nice to have a page that advances a bunch of things about a software without any credible sources.
Plus, the whole article speculate that it's a backdoor... No hard evidence other then two constants called "KEY" and "NSAKEY". Surely it isn't just master displacement keys for an encryption algorithm developed by the NSA...
Read the second link?
Now don't say "thats just for the government". Anyone could possibly crack that key given enough time.
Always nice to have a page that advances a bunch of things about a software without any credible sources.
Plus, the whole article speculate that it's a backdoor... No hard evidence other then two constants called "KEY" and "NSAKEY". Surely it isn't just master displacement keys for an encryption algorithm developed by the NSA...
It wasn't posted to glorify what he did, it was just to pose what you mentioned as wrong.
You're taking the issue way too serious, and if anyone should be hold responsible for legal consequences, it would be you for fraud/blackmailing, ambiguous claims, and a few more of those.
Give it a rest, i'm sure you got better things to do with your precious time.
I didn't fraud anyone (didn't take any money). I didn't blackmail anyone (didn't ask for anything). I didn't make ambiguous claims (there are no known backdoors in my Windows 7 installation as of today... Everything else is speculation. The day someone confirms there is one, Microsoft will be in big legal dodo all over the world).
What I did do is talk to a Sergent within the federal police force of Germany (whatever that is called there) for over an hour and sent him what I have. The rest is up to him and I've done what I think had to be done. If the state decides to press charges, it's their decision alone.
In my country, not doing anything when in knowledge of a crime is a crime in itself.
ou're saying that someone who dislikes someone else for adding a backdoor which can and was used to shut down servers and ban owners is more legally responsible for their insults than the guy who built the backdoors in the first place?
I banned him from his server using the global banlist which is and was at that time an advertised feature of MCAdmin and could also easily be disabled...
Not saying it was right, just stating facts btw.
ou're saying that someone who dislikes someone else for adding a backdoor which can and was used to shut down servers and ban owners is more legally responsible for their insults than the guy who built the backdoors in the first place?
I banned him from his server using the global banlist which is and was at that time an advertised feature of MCAdmin and could also easily be disabled...
Not saying it was right, just stating facts btw.
You joined his server, started accessing admin only information without his consent, he called you on it (aka he insulted you), he banned you, you got pissed, went on a power trip and banned him and his friend globally.
ou're saying that someone who dislikes someone else for adding a backdoor which can and was used to shut down servers and ban owners is more legally responsible for their insults than the guy who built the backdoors in the first place?
I banned him from his server using the global banlist which is and was at that time an advertised feature of MCAdmin and could also easily be disabled...
Not saying it was right, just stating facts btw.
You joined his server, started accessing admin only information without his consent, he called you on it (aka he insulted you), he banned you, you got pissed, went on a power trip and banned him and his friend globally.
There is such a thing as a half-truth.
Wrong, at no point did I enabled developer mode on his server. If I did you would have read it in the chatlog.
Even if I did (and I am sure I didn't), what information did I access?
MCAdmin has no commands for retrieving any information I would not otherwise get.
I'm not ruining anyone's life over... I was raised in such way that if I did something bad/really bad/illegal, I had to deal with the consequences of that action. I'll raise my children the same way.
You can see my theory on that at the bottom of the first page of this thread. So far its being conveniently ignored, leading me to believe I hit the nail on the head.
Doridian didn't ask for the thread to be locked, it was locked because it was generating a bunch of drama and no good would come of it being open.
I was in the process of investigating whether or not the claims of MCAdmin being considered malware or otherwise harmful software was accurate. In the end I concluded it probably was, but by then Doridian had apologized and changed it. It has been, and is being, discussed, but since the programming decision didn't appear to be malicious in intent and was changed promptly, so far I'm considering this an honest mistake. He has definitely payed for this mistake, here and elsewhere, so punishing him for the sake of punishment wouldn't accomplish anything except maybe make people feel a little more like justice was working smoothly. Hopefully my explanation will suffice there.
Your theory that he was exempt from banning because he was a donator, well, let me assure you that this is not the case. Donators are held to the same level as everyone else, and WILL get warned or banned. It kind of sucks, really, to ban someone from something they gave money to, but if it has to come down to it, that's the action that has to be taken.
This was not responded to earlier because there's a hell of a lot of stuff going on on these forums, and not many of us at the moment to sort through it, and so there was no one here to respond.
I would again like to assure you that this issue is being considered seriously, and something this complicated is not an issue that will be solved overnight... it takes some discussion to figure out the right action to take.
Yes, because giving him a criminal record over a misunderstanding won't hurt him at all.
What's even more sad is this is the 3rd time I've written this post due to the vulgar and rage tastic nature of my previous versions.
Yes, it took me that much to realize what I did was wrong.
I written my intentions for this "backdoor" quite clearly in the first post, I did never intend to use it to use it to ruin people's servers (and I did not abuse DevMode at all, I abused the killswitch [not disableable] and the global banlist [easily disableable by the server owner]).
Secondly I dont agree with outright kicking people off there own servers and banning them, honestly just do my first paragraph release updated version that not under GPL for extras.
It is within your rights to charge for this software if you soo choose to do so for updated and monitor free soloutions,escp if there used for pay to play servers, I dont think pay to play servers should reap of others software. honestly this is getting close to the most user friendly server Id have ever used so far while maintaing some decent features. tho i dont use it now I use hey0's due to flexability (got off it long before I knew about this) But I would EASILY give u $30 to make ur GUI work for hey0.
I think you fail to realize something here tho.... if you told us from the very start that due to this software stayin free and updated u had such powers then others could have said well no thanks or fine by me and avoided this whole scenario.
I still trust you... hell from my point of view ur no different then Microsoft they have backdoors all over the shot and constanly there OS is always doing stuff u dont permit it to do like cough * touch Base* cough cough *send usage info* Cough.
and we all put up with that the difference is its made known by terms of use, so i say to all the people who decided they would tear u to fur balls, to harden the **** up its GPL if you dont like whats in it due it being free dont use it hes not forcing to stick with it. Honestly its just that freakin simple.
My last advice to you tho is just to keep doing it **** em, if they want to rid of it offer a one time dontaion cost to get a script to remove the spying. take Ubuntu for example everyone KNOWS.. and it plainly tells you that it collects information from time to time for security reasons.
anyway I cant really think of anything else to add to this so peace.. . oh yea ... Make me a hey0 plugin lol using ur gui :smile.gif:
It's funny that everyone is so eager to say that major software companies have backdoors...
Let me put it this way... There is not ONE major software company that have code in place to remotely gain admin access on their software.
Not Microsoft, not Apple, not Oracle, not Google, not Adobe... NONE.
I'm not saying they couldn't deploy code to do so via the auto-update, but they don't have dispositions to do so right now and they never will. Why? Because it's illegal and they have gouv. agencies as customers.
I own a major software box. I didn't and will never implement backdoors into my products. If the customer needs support, we use LogMeIn. We don't just take control of their box without them knowing, they have to download the LMI client software, provide us with the randomly generated password and then we connect.
So stop using the defense saying that all major companies have backdoors. They don't.
https://iphone-services.apple.com/clbl/unauthorizedApps
http://cyberinsecure.com/microsoft-windows-got-backdoors-for-nsa/
Does it give Apple administrative access? No.
Does it provide Apple with SPECIFIC and PRIVATE configuration parameters? No
What you just linked above isn't a backdoor. It's a way to remotely disable applications that:
1. Was always clearly outlined in the EULA and reminded of when purchasing apps
2. Isn't hidden or kept secret
3. Is there to protect the user against malicious software what steal user info, give a malicious user root access to the phone, etc... (ie.: protect it against backdoors).
4. Doesn't give Apple ability to do nothing else except that.
Versus your app, which:
1. Had a hidden backdoor not mentioned in any EULA or note of any kind
2. Gave you full admin access on any MCAdmin server without authorization
3. Allowed you to make any changes you damn pleased without admin authorization
Wow man, you have a total lack of ethics.
I would never use anything you had a hand in creating.
You should be ashamed of yourself, and grow up.
Read the second link?
Now don't say "thats just for the government". Anyone could possibly crack that key given enough time.
http://cyberinsecure.com/microsoft-windows-got-backdoors-for-nsa/
Always nice to have a page that advances a bunch of things about a software without any credible sources.
Plus, the whole article speculate that it's a backdoor... No hard evidence other then two constants called "KEY" and "NSAKEY". Surely it isn't just master displacement keys for an encryption algorithm developed by the NSA...
I didn't fraud anyone (didn't take any money). I didn't blackmail anyone (didn't ask for anything). I didn't make ambiguous claims (there are no known backdoors in my Windows 7 installation as of today... Everything else is speculation. The day someone confirms there is one, Microsoft will be in big legal dodo all over the world).
What I did do is talk to a Sergent within the federal police force of Germany (whatever that is called there) for over an hour and sent him what I have. The rest is up to him and I've done what I think had to be done. If the state decides to press charges, it's their decision alone.
In my country, not doing anything when in knowledge of a crime is a crime in itself.
I banned him from his server using the global banlist which is and was at that time an advertised feature of MCAdmin and could also easily be disabled...
Not saying it was right, just stating facts btw.
You joined his server, started accessing admin only information without his consent, he called you on it (aka he insulted you), he banned you, you got pissed, went on a power trip and banned him and his friend globally.
There is such a thing as a half-truth.
Wrong, at no point did I enabled developer mode on his server. If I did you would have read it in the chatlog.
Even if I did (and I am sure I didn't), what information did I access?
MCAdmin has no commands for retrieving any information I would not otherwise get.