FineWolf,
Have you ever thought about the fact that you are trying to get somebody in trouble, because of a server that isnt yours, for a game, that isnt yours? Sure you are hosting that particular server but it is still property of notch. As much as MCAdmin is property of Doridian.
Also it seems to me you are accusing him of accessing your pc, when first off you have no proof and second off there is proof that he in fact has not done so. And using a refference from Wikipedia is not the smartest thing to do in this case. Anybody can access and change stuff on that site.
Why do you even care about it so much? Its just a game and youre trying to win a conversation that is totally pointless. Its not like anything is going to change from you complaining about something for silly reasons.
And i dont want to sound harsh or offending in any way but if you have such a big problem with the whole situation, why dont you just leave? There are plenty of other things out there to do other than to troll around because of something like this.
What damage? And i wasn't talking to you unless you were samefagging on that account.
Quote from Doridian »
[*:3nnohxmg]I global banned a guy (Bradster) and a guy on his server (BlaqSheep) for insulting me (on his own server) [he cut these parts out of the chatlog. I however have no proof of this and you got no reason to believe me]
What damage? And i wasn't talking to you unless you were samefagging on that account.
Quote from Doridian »
[*:9vusi9nh]I global banned a guy (Bradster) and a guy on his server (BlaqSheep) for insulting me (on his own server) [he cut these parts out of the chatlog. I however have no proof of this and you got no reason to believe me]
That's not exactly damage, that's a feature built into MCAdmin, nor did it cause any damage to the instance of MCAdmin.
FineWolf,
Have you ever thought about the fact that you are trying to get somebody in trouble, because of a server that isnt yours, for a game, that isnt yours? Sure you are hosting that particular server but it is still property of notch. As much as MCAdmin is property of Doridian.
I always teach my kids that you do not put someone in trouble for denouncing something you saw. He's the one who put himself into trouble for committing the action in the first place.
Oh, and that particular argument about ownership of processes running on a computer has been debated in court. The server instance is the property of the owner, not Notch. The MCAdmin instance running on a computer is property of the computer owner, not Doridian.
What damage? And i wasn't talking to you unless you were samefagging on that account.
Quote from Doridian »
[*:yblmhrs3]I global banned a guy (Bradster) and a guy on his server (BlaqSheep) for insulting me (on his own server) [he cut these parts out of the chatlog. I however have no proof of this and you got no reason to believe me]
That's not exactly damage, that's a feature built into MCAdmin, nor did it cause any damage to the instance of MCAdmin.
It prevented the admin from administrating his own server and also prevented him from connecting to other servers using MCAdmin. That's damage. Damage to the personal reputation of the server admin and crippling of the ability to control a process running on his on computer.
Bogus apology aside, can we all at least agree that 4 pages of thread later he is still defending his actions?
WTF is wrong with this picture.
For all of you bickering over what kind of access or action against a server constitutes a crime, consider this:
Quote from Doridian »
I globally banned bradtser for insulting users (in this case, me). After realizing I made a stupid decision I unbanned him but left BlaqSheep banned. Then I told him how to disable the global banlist so that guy is able to join the server again. After this, he continued going on about how I should not control anything on his server and continued insulting me, so I used the killswitch to shut his server down.
Banning people is the least of his worries, when he's confessing to killing a server he doesn't own.
That's not exactly damage, that's a feature built into MCAdmin, nor did it cause any damage to the instance of MCAdmin.
It prevented the admin from administrating his own server and also prevented him from connecting to other servers using MCAdmin. That's damage. Damage to the personal reputation of the server admin and crippling of the ability to control a process running on his on computer.
It did not prevent the admin from administrating his own server as he could opt out of the global ban feature and use his server again.
That's not exactly damage, that's a feature built into MCAdmin, nor did it cause any damage to the instance of MCAdmin.
It prevented the admin from administrating his own server and also prevented him from connecting to other servers using MCAdmin. That's damage. Damage to the personal reputation of the server admin and crippling of the ability to control a process running on his on computer.
It did not prevent the admin from administrating his own server as he could opt out of the global ban feature and use his server again.
It doesn't matter if it's temporary or not. That's the same argument a malware author could make... "Oh, it didn't prevent the person from using his computer, all he had to do is remove the malware".
Was it done in the intent to prevent the person from accessing his own server instance? YES. That's all that's needed.
I also forgot that Doridian used the killswitch to prevent the server from starting in the first place. That's pretty severe damage.
Its not about that FineWolf is using Notch's software. Its that he is using MCAdmin on his own free will THUS he accepts all the terms that come with it. Malware or not, not saying that it is, he aggreed to it when he downloaded it willingly. It was not forced upon him.
FineWolf may i ask why you are showing such a keen interest into this topic when you were not even one of the people who was affected by MCAdmin?
Also Vanadium i suspect you are a second account of FineWolf's seems as you are supporting FineWolf and allmost immidiately after Finewolf does
1. Because I used to run an MCAdmin server
2. That's just coincidence. From what I can read from Vanadium's post though is that he studied law at some point (so did I but chose not to make it a career).
FineWolf may i ask why you are showing such a keen interest into this topic when you were not even one of the people who was affected by MCAdmin?
Also Vanadium i suspect you are a second account of FineWolf's seems as you are supporting FineWolf and allmost immidiately after Finewolf does
Because some people don't just sit idly by and let people get away with transgressions. Some of us learned early in life that there are consequences for our actions. In this case, Doridian stepped beyond the game and made a real life impact on someone because of the code he included in MCAdmin. I don't understand why anyone is supporting him at all.
Conspiracy theories about accounts? Really? This is going even more downhill than it already was...
Its not about that FineWolf is using Notch's software. Its that he is using MCAdmin on his own free will THUS he accepts all the terms that come with it. Malware or not, not saying that it is, he aggreed to it when he downloaded it willingly. It was not forced upon him.
That's the problem. There were no "terms and conditions" on MCAdmin when I was using it and having of known what I know now, I wouldn't of touched the software with a 10 foot pole. The "terms and conditions" (which are called an End-User License Agreement by the way) are a recent addition that Doridian put up after the whole fiasco.
Malware (also: scumware), short for malicious software, is software designed to secretly access a computer system without the owner's informed consent.[/i]
Downloading software and installing it is implied consent, your argument would never stand up in a legal setting.
That's the problem. There were no "terms and conditions" on MCAdmin when I was using it and having of known what I know now, I wouldn't of touched the software with a 10 foot pole. The "terms and conditions" (which are called an End-User License Agreement by the way) are a recent addition that Doridian put up after the whole fiasco.
So you're problem being where exactly?
Maybe he did put them in late, Very late, but he DID in fact put them in so people would be aware and stuff like this would not happen.
That's the problem. There were no "terms and conditions" on MCAdmin when I was using it and having of known what I know now, I wouldn't of touched the software with a 10 foot pole. The "terms and conditions" (which are called an End-User License Agreement by the way) are a recent addition that Doridian put up after the whole fiasco.
So you're problem being where exactly?
Maybe he did put them in late, Very late, but he DID in fact put them in so people would be aware and stuff like this would not happen.
It's pretty obvious they were created in response to this information being leaked.
That's the problem. There were no "terms and conditions" on MCAdmin when I was using it and having of known what I know now, I wouldn't of touched the software with a 10 foot pole. The "terms and conditions" (which are called an End-User License Agreement by the way) are a recent addition that Doridian put up after the whole fiasco.
So you're problem being where exactly?
Maybe he did put them in late, Very late, but he DID in fact put them in so people would be aware and stuff like this would not happen.
That I ran a piece of software which gave unauthorized access to part of my computer (MCAdmin and the Minecraft server instance) to an individual I don't know about for a few weeks?
I apologize for registering just to post this, but the topic provoked me.
Doridian (apparently) released the software under a BSD license. What this should mean is that the software can be put online by someone who has not abused trust. It can be modified to autoupdate from someone who has not abused trust, or have autoupdate disabled entirely.
Regardless of how good you think the software is, or how honest you think Doridian's apology is, there is no reason for you not to get this software from someone else, and at least one reason not to get it from the original source: he abused your trust at least once.
In effect, the software is no longer Doridian's, and you don't have to trust him to continue using MCAdmin as soon as someone else is providing the software. This forum does not have to link to domains under his control.
As for the legal issues; you are not a lawyer. It is up to the police and prosecution to decide whether what Doridian did warrants prosecution, and providing them with facts is the best way to have them make the right decision. No one have the power to ruin his life by having the legal system come down on him except Doridian himself - by breaking the law.
As for the moral issues - if you think he did nothing wrong, then you disagree with Doridian himself. The original post of this thread is an apology and admittance of wrongdoing.
I don't really think the issue is so much that MCAdmin had a backdoor that was intended to be a support feature but how you conducted yourself following it being "discovered" as well as your short temper, lack of professionalism and immaturity towards customers you "don't like".
Comments made by you, in jest or not, and your history bring to light the question on whether or not you would crack and make good on your "threats"/ideas.
Simply put, it's difficult to trust you with an auto-update mechanism anymore. Poked on the wrong day or the wrong way, and who knows? Maybe you'll explode and write damaging code to "get back" at "everyone that hates you".
Had the feature been properly disclosed, I doubt it would be labeled a backdoor. However, I feel that we'd still be going through this because of your demonstrated lack of self control.
It's great that you apologised and all, but it might not be enough for some people. You're simply too much of a random factor that could or could not negatively affect their Minecraft experience or their servers.
Have you ever thought about the fact that you are trying to get somebody in trouble, because of a server that isnt yours, for a game, that isnt yours? Sure you are hosting that particular server but it is still property of notch. As much as MCAdmin is property of Doridian.
Also it seems to me you are accusing him of accessing your pc, when first off you have no proof and second off there is proof that he in fact has not done so. And using a refference from Wikipedia is not the smartest thing to do in this case. Anybody can access and change stuff on that site.
Why do you even care about it so much? Its just a game and youre trying to win a conversation that is totally pointless. Its not like anything is going to change from you complaining about something for silly reasons.
And i dont want to sound harsh or offending in any way but if you have such a big problem with the whole situation, why dont you just leave? There are plenty of other things out there to do other than to troll around because of something like this.
Just think about it for a second will ya?
That's not exactly damage, that's a feature built into MCAdmin, nor did it cause any damage to the instance of MCAdmin.
I always teach my kids that you do not put someone in trouble for denouncing something you saw. He's the one who put himself into trouble for committing the action in the first place.
Yes, Wikipedia can be changed... But check the edit history of that particular phrase... It hasn't been changed in months. But here is a non editable source: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 32948.aspx
Oh, and that particular argument about ownership of processes running on a computer has been debated in court. The server instance is the property of the owner, not Notch. The MCAdmin instance running on a computer is property of the computer owner, not Doridian.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_C ... on_scandal
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/inde ... 2010323323
It prevented the admin from administrating his own server and also prevented him from connecting to other servers using MCAdmin. That's damage. Damage to the personal reputation of the server admin and crippling of the ability to control a process running on his on computer.
WTF is wrong with this picture.
For all of you bickering over what kind of access or action against a server constitutes a crime, consider this:
Banning people is the least of his worries, when he's confessing to killing a server he doesn't own.
It did not prevent the admin from administrating his own server as he could opt out of the global ban feature and use his server again.
It doesn't matter if it's temporary or not. That's the same argument a malware author could make... "Oh, it didn't prevent the person from using his computer, all he had to do is remove the malware".
Was it done in the intent to prevent the person from accessing his own server instance? YES. That's all that's needed.
I also forgot that Doridian used the killswitch to prevent the server from starting in the first place. That's pretty severe damage.
1. Because I used to run an MCAdmin server
2. That's just coincidence. From what I can read from Vanadium's post though is that he studied law at some point (so did I but chose not to make it a career).
Because some people don't just sit idly by and let people get away with transgressions. Some of us learned early in life that there are consequences for our actions. In this case, Doridian stepped beyond the game and made a real life impact on someone because of the code he included in MCAdmin. I don't understand why anyone is supporting him at all.
Conspiracy theories about accounts? Really? This is going even more downhill than it already was...
That's the problem. There were no "terms and conditions" on MCAdmin when I was using it and having of known what I know now, I wouldn't of touched the software with a 10 foot pole. The "terms and conditions" (which are called an End-User License Agreement by the way) are a recent addition that Doridian put up after the whole fiasco.
Please see Sony BMG vs EFF and etc.
So you're problem being where exactly?
Maybe he did put them in late, Very late, but he DID in fact put them in so people would be aware and stuff like this would not happen.
It's pretty obvious they were created in response to this information being leaked.
Anyways, nice apology, keep up the good work. Try not to let these people get to you. Mistakes happen, and we learn from them.
That I ran a piece of software which gave unauthorized access to part of my computer (MCAdmin and the Minecraft server instance) to an individual I don't know about for a few weeks?
I couldnt agree with you more. Thank you for being the first person since the start of this thread to say anything usefull.
Doridian (apparently) released the software under a BSD license. What this should mean is that the software can be put online by someone who has not abused trust. It can be modified to autoupdate from someone who has not abused trust, or have autoupdate disabled entirely.
Regardless of how good you think the software is, or how honest you think Doridian's apology is, there is no reason for you not to get this software from someone else, and at least one reason not to get it from the original source: he abused your trust at least once.
In effect, the software is no longer Doridian's, and you don't have to trust him to continue using MCAdmin as soon as someone else is providing the software. This forum does not have to link to domains under his control.
As for the legal issues; you are not a lawyer. It is up to the police and prosecution to decide whether what Doridian did warrants prosecution, and providing them with facts is the best way to have them make the right decision. No one have the power to ruin his life by having the legal system come down on him except Doridian himself - by breaking the law.
As for the moral issues - if you think he did nothing wrong, then you disagree with Doridian himself. The original post of this thread is an apology and admittance of wrongdoing.
Comments made by you, in jest or not, and your history bring to light the question on whether or not you would crack and make good on your "threats"/ideas.
Simply put, it's difficult to trust you with an auto-update mechanism anymore. Poked on the wrong day or the wrong way, and who knows? Maybe you'll explode and write damaging code to "get back" at "everyone that hates you".
Had the feature been properly disclosed, I doubt it would be labeled a backdoor. However, I feel that we'd still be going through this because of your demonstrated lack of self control.
It's great that you apologised and all, but it might not be enough for some people. You're simply too much of a random factor that could or could not negatively affect their Minecraft experience or their servers.