Since in Minecraft you can destroy nearly any block, the average player's house is susceptible to burglars and griefers; they can simply destroy any material that the house is made out of (short of adminium, which must be hacked and is difficult to build with) and loot the treasure inside. I began to wonder: is it even possible to make a structure that's completely impenetrable to any other player but yourself (and whoever you let in) as of the most recent update?
A couple of nights ago, I decided to try it in singleplayer. My goal was to make a simple "safe house" which contained a few chests for storage (and an obligatory crafting table/furnace) that cannot be entered. I ended up making a tiny cobblestone house with three-layer walls: two layers of cobblestone (the outer and innermost layers) and one of lava in between the two. This way, if a griefer attempted to dig through the walls, they'd get lava in their face. I did the same with the floor to prevent drilling from underneath. I would've done it to the ceiling, too, if I weren't a bit strapped for time.
Now, to allow entrance to the owners of the house and welcomed guests, I constructed an iron door with a very simple lock system. Two levers, one on each side. I initially placed the door sideways, so that the open position becomes the closed position, and vice versa - this way, the door would only open if both levers were off, rather than opening if at least one was on. But since this system makes it possible to lock from either side, I put the outer lever within reach of the inside through the small holes in the door itself, while keeping the inner lever out-of-reach from the outside.
Screenshots:
Safehouse from the front. The lever is directly in front of the door so that it can easily be unlocked from the inside if needed.
From the inside. Flipping it on locks it, rendering the outside lever useless.
This is what happens when you try to mine through the walls. :biggrin.gif:
This was a hasty design, and there are many obvious flaws:
[*:oca4h6ge]Once the lava is exposed, if the thief is quick enough, they can plug it up.
[*:oca4h6ge]Cobblestone is relatively easy to mine through; obsidian would be a better choice of material if I wasn't lazy.
[*:oca4h6ge]The areas near the door were easy to mine through without having to deal with the lava.
[*:oca4h6ge]The door itself can be destroyed. They may be bugged in SMP currently, preventing them from being mined directly (at least in my experience), but you can still mine the floor underneath to cause it to poof into item form.
[*:oca4h6ge]The house would take a heck of a long time to construct without hacking, especially the lava.
So, I have come here looking for second opinions. Any ideas to improve on my current design? Or do you think there might be a better method entirely?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People are warned to shred the earth to get away from you before you have lost your marbles.
Sadly nothing is truely impenetrable. With a little bit of thought someone can always break in.
1. place a block 1 space away from wall and stand on it.
2. mine a hole.
3. fill with sand
4 repeat 1-3 2 times with the 2 neighboring walls.
5. clear out spot the middle.
and now your inside.
Also you have the problem of someone just poking a hole through both walls without clearing out the lava. Then all your chests inside just go bye bye. The other guy wouldn't get your stuff but you wouldn't either and for most greifers thats what they are trying to accomplish.
Obsidian would just slow the process down but not prevent it.
The best defense I've thought of so far was just keeping it underground and hiding the entrance the best you can. Using a body of water for cover works best because then you have the least chance of someone just stumbling along the hole. I've also just buried the entrance before too, that works pretty good as long as you have a clue where to dig back in to get to your stash without using anything that will look obvious to let others know to dig too.
Nobody expects it, and a tree is an easy landmark to memorize
As for a wall, how's this for the award for "Most annoying to bore through"?
Sand faces outward, obsidian inward.
It's ugly, but it prevents the greifer from flooding the base with lava (instead, with easy-to-clean water) as well as cooking any attempts to burrow in from the outside.
I like this idea... A dummy chest somewhere nearby. I was originally going to reply with an idea based off that of:
[]
With the top one being a dummy...but then i thought that might cause problems if someone decided to break the dummy chest, they'll see the real one below...
I tend to flush my chests inside the floor anyway, but that's just for looks more than for protection:
[] [] []
In a former SMP map, I made a storeroom under spawn surrounded by obsidian. That was before chests worked, so it was rather large... But I haven't gotten back to that yet...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Monkey Mines is a small 18+ Whitelisted Realms server that also allows families. We're currently looking for new players if they're not jerks.
As someone who sometimes griefs, I can see one problem: I'd bust the outer wall open and cover the map in lava.
Stuff your valuables.
Also, doesn't the server save your items now anyway? IE just keep whatever you need in your pockets, then log out. Steal that!
Cool set up though, good lock system.
True, valuables should be kept in your inventory if you fear griefers.
But then, once PVP is added, that doesn't stop them from simply mugging you by sneaking up from behind with a diamond sword or something, murdering you, then stealing everything in your inventory. And even in servers without PVP, they could pour lava on you or use TNT or something. Then again, I don't think you could ever be safe from muggers, unless you had full diamond armor, carried a bow and 128 arrows or so at all times, and did a 360 every 2 seconds.
Nice designs, guys, and yes, building your base or just hiding your chests underground is probably a safer option than building a 10-layer-walled house any day. (I do like the multiple-lava wall, and the lava fort though.) Of course, if you use a tree to mark it, it's likely that the thing will be chopped down eventually, without you knowing, and all of a sudden your only landmark is gone. It might be best to just use a lone flower, or the only yellow/red flower among those of another color, since they are (currently) useless other than decoration.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People are warned to shred the earth to get away from you before you have lost your marbles.
all of what I'm about to say requires players to actually be able to take damage and die again, in the current form where players cannot die, no fortress is safe.
with the general idea of certain walls to keep out raiders, you also have to keep in mind the ability to get the materials to make the wall with in the first place. if you have the ability to summon your blocks, then a defense system is useless in that anything you lose can be easily regained and as such nothing should have value to you. if you're working merely with the materials you have at hand, I assume lava and obsidian is limited .
with that in mind, my plans for the walls of my castle project are as such:
Inside----------Outside
[] []
=lava flow
this is with a minimalist idea in mind. first, you have the layer of lava on the outside. it acts as an initial deterrant and through the use of furnaces requires some very carefull pillaring by the enemy to bypass (since any attempt to build on a furnace simply makes you open the furnace menu) and it also acts as a tnt cannon defense. anyone attempting to dig through can probably get through the initial lava wall with minimal damage. the gravel stage acts mostly a time killer. gravel takes longer to destroy than sand, and once they finnaly do succeed in getting rid of the entire pillar of gravel they have an incoming wave of lava to deal with which should also sweep the raider back out and into the first wave of lava.
This structure takes 2 lava to build, and if you are low on lava, you can sometimes place the top layer of lava, have it flow, and then pick it up again. sometimes the lava flow will stay indefinitely until a block is placed nearby despite the lack of a source block.
another slightly more time consuming version (for the outside portion at least) is:
after placement, destroy the end soil and let the lava flow, then destroy the next, and the next until all soil is gone. you'll now have a 4 wide stream of lava from 1 source block. this forces players to either attempt to pillar over or it requires them to take some lava damage while digging through the furnace wall (which would be slowed since you would be in lava at the time). if you're like me and build walls to the max sky height, pillaring wont work on this type. this version can also be glitched out like the one before, where you can take out the source block and the lava will continue to flow until disrupted by a nearby block placement.
and for the actual wall portion and not just the lava defense, furnaces and gravel are your friend. gravel can be easily replaced from the very top of the wall, and furnaces are the most easily available wall block you can throw at your opponents. make use of lava, or at the very least water, to slow your opponent's digging speed.
just keep in mind, no fortress in impenetrable. a very patient or very smart player can get through any wall in a matter of time.
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As someone who sometimes griefs, I can see one problem: I'd bust the outer wall open and cover the map in lava.
Stuff your valuables.
Also, doesn't the server save your items now anyway? IE just keep whatever you need in your pockets, then log out. Steal that!
Cool set up though, good lock system.
True, valuables should be kept in your inventory if you fear griefers.
But then, once PVP is added, that doesn't stop them from simply mugging you by sneaking up from behind with a diamond sword or something, murdering you, then stealing everything in your inventory. And even in servers without PVP, they could pour lava on you or use TNT or something. Then again, I don't think you could ever be safe from muggers, unless you had full diamond armor, carried a bow and 128 arrows or so at all times, and did a 360 every 2 seconds.
Nice designs, guys, and yes, building your base or just hiding your chests underground is probably a safer option than building a 10-layer-walled house any day. (I do like the multiple-lava wall, and the lava fort though.) Of course, if you use a tree to mark it, it's likely that the thing will be chopped down eventually, without you knowing, and all of a sudden your only landmark is gone. It might be best to just use a lone flower, or the only yellow/red flower among those of another color, since they are (currently) useless other than decoration.
I always find hiding my chests the best solution to griefers. People will always find a way around your defenses. I played garry's mod for a while, where almost everyone griefed on each other. The best thing you can do is make it look like something isn't there. If I was looking for a secret hideaway and I found dirt without grass onto or torches placed to light up an area that doesn't need it, I would scout around.
This is one of my ideas I like to do.
[] [] [] []
[] []
This of course would be used in a cobblestone castle.
As for a wall, how's this for the award for "Most annoying to bore through"?
Sand faces outward, obsidian inward.
It's ugly, but it prevents the greifer from flooding the base with lava (instead, with easy-to-clean water) as well as cooking any attempts to burrow in from the outside.
this is actually a really good design because while a nimrod is just holding down a mouse button as the sand falls infront of him going "who the hell makes a fortress out of sand?" he doesn't know hes creating a slope for the lava to fall right on his head.
mining obsidian unwater even with a dimond pick takes at least a few mins this will at least deture most greifers if not stop them entirely the only promblem is a way for you to get in
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Just wondering... Is making love to zombie pigmam bestiality AND necrophilia?
mining obsidian unwater even with a dimond pick takes at least a few mins this will at least deture most greifers if not stop them entirely the only promblem is a way for you to get in
tunnel with obsidian walls into the seafloor.
Keep obsidian walls up for like ~20 blocks away from entrance if they decided to dig randomly.
Hide the entrance well. This of course is the hardest part.
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Quote from Cliff Racer »
If a creeper walked in to my house, I'd either be cowering in a corner or unzipping my trousers.
Build a tiny wooden house, put in a chest with only dirt and wood in it (And put a chest under the wood floors, which has dirt under it, this chest has your vauables)
[] []
[] []
[]
This way, it isn't cut down like a tree (unless the griefer is a TOTAL jerk) and you have a nice landmark :biggrin.gif:
Also, to make it even easier to find, make a beautiful flag on top of your house! (I'd also suggest adding an iron door)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
by GreyAcumen » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:26 pm
Tree punchers. Everyone knows you use a pickaxe for rock, not your fists.
A couple of nights ago, I decided to try it in singleplayer. My goal was to make a simple "safe house" which contained a few chests for storage (and an obligatory crafting table/furnace) that cannot be entered. I ended up making a tiny cobblestone house with three-layer walls: two layers of cobblestone (the outer and innermost layers) and one of lava in between the two. This way, if a griefer attempted to dig through the walls, they'd get lava in their face. I did the same with the floor to prevent drilling from underneath. I would've done it to the ceiling, too, if I weren't a bit strapped for time.
Now, to allow entrance to the owners of the house and welcomed guests, I constructed an iron door with a very simple lock system. Two levers, one on each side. I initially placed the door sideways, so that the open position becomes the closed position, and vice versa - this way, the door would only open if both levers were off, rather than opening if at least one was on. But since this system makes it possible to lock from either side, I put the outer lever within reach of the inside through the small holes in the door itself, while keeping the inner lever out-of-reach from the outside.
Screenshots:
Safehouse from the front. The lever is directly in front of the door so that it can easily be unlocked from the inside if needed.
From the inside. Flipping it on locks it, rendering the outside lever useless.
This is what happens when you try to mine through the walls. :biggrin.gif:
This was a hasty design, and there are many obvious flaws:
[*:oca4h6ge]Once the lava is exposed, if the thief is quick enough, they can plug it up.
[*:oca4h6ge]Cobblestone is relatively easy to mine through; obsidian would be a better choice of material if I wasn't lazy.
[*:oca4h6ge]The areas near the door were easy to mine through without having to deal with the lava.
[*:oca4h6ge]The door itself can be destroyed. They may be bugged in SMP currently, preventing them from being mined directly (at least in my experience), but you can still mine the floor underneath to cause it to poof into item form.
[*:oca4h6ge]The house would take a heck of a long time to construct without hacking, especially the lava.
So, I have come here looking for second opinions. Any ideas to improve on my current design? Or do you think there might be a better method entirely?
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< Dragon Cave! (aid)
1. place a block 1 space away from wall and stand on it.
2. mine a hole.
3. fill with sand
4 repeat 1-3 2 times with the 2 neighboring walls.
5. clear out spot the middle.
and now your inside.
Also you have the problem of someone just poking a hole through both walls without clearing out the lava. Then all your chests inside just go bye bye. The other guy wouldn't get your stuff but you wouldn't either and for most greifers thats what they are trying to accomplish.
Obsidian would just slow the process down but not prevent it.
The best defense I've thought of so far was just keeping it underground and hiding the entrance the best you can. Using a body of water for cover works best because then you have the least chance of someone just stumbling along the hole. I've also just buried the entrance before too, that works pretty good as long as you have a clue where to dig back in to get to your stash without using anything that will look obvious to let others know to dig too.
Stuff your valuables.
Also, doesn't the server save your items now anyway? IE just keep whatever you need in your pockets, then log out. Steal that!
Cool set up though, good lock system.
Would be hell to grief.
Another good idea is creating a water wall mechanism in a protected roof room - this stops people from using tnt on you to destroy everything
:biggrin.gif:
Raise my dragons please!!
That said, the best way to protect your chests is to bury them like so:
[] []
[] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[]
Nobody expects it, and a tree is an easy landmark to memorize
As for a wall, how's this for the award for "Most annoying to bore through"?
Sand faces outward, obsidian inward.
It's ugly, but it prevents the greifer from flooding the base with lava (instead, with easy-to-clean water) as well as cooking any attempts to burrow in from the outside.
Did you find a light-grey block around sand that dropped four light-grey blobs when punched? That's called Clay.
[]
[]
[]
[]
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] [] ^ Actual chest of valuables
I like this idea... A dummy chest somewhere nearby. I was originally going to reply with an idea based off that of:
[]
With the top one being a dummy...but then i thought that might cause problems if someone decided to break the dummy chest, they'll see the real one below...
I tend to flush my chests inside the floor anyway, but that's just for looks more than for protection:
[] [] []
In a former SMP map, I made a storeroom under spawn surrounded by obsidian. That was before chests worked, so it was rather large... But I haven't gotten back to that yet...
But then, once PVP is added, that doesn't stop them from simply mugging you by sneaking up from behind with a diamond sword or something, murdering you, then stealing everything in your inventory. And even in servers without PVP, they could pour lava on you or use TNT or something. Then again, I don't think you could ever be safe from muggers, unless you had full diamond armor, carried a bow and 128 arrows or so at all times, and did a 360 every 2 seconds.
Nice designs, guys, and yes, building your base or just hiding your chests underground is probably a safer option than building a 10-layer-walled house any day. (I do like the multiple-lava wall, and the lava fort though.) Of course, if you use a tree to mark it, it's likely that the thing will be chopped down eventually, without you knowing, and all of a sudden your only landmark is gone. It might be best to just use a lone flower, or the only yellow/red flower among those of another color, since they are (currently) useless other than decoration.
...Just destroy the door?
with the general idea of certain walls to keep out raiders, you also have to keep in mind the ability to get the materials to make the wall with in the first place. if you have the ability to summon your blocks, then a defense system is useless in that anything you lose can be easily regained and as such nothing should have value to you. if you're working merely with the materials you have at hand, I assume lava and obsidian is limited .
with that in mind, my plans for the walls of my castle project are as such:
Inside----------Outside
[] []
=lava flow
this is with a minimalist idea in mind. first, you have the layer of lava on the outside. it acts as an initial deterrant and through the use of furnaces requires some very carefull pillaring by the enemy to bypass (since any attempt to build on a furnace simply makes you open the furnace menu) and it also acts as a tnt cannon defense. anyone attempting to dig through can probably get through the initial lava wall with minimal damage. the gravel stage acts mostly a time killer. gravel takes longer to destroy than sand, and once they finnaly do succeed in getting rid of the entire pillar of gravel they have an incoming wave of lava to deal with which should also sweep the raider back out and into the first wave of lava.
This structure takes 2 lava to build, and if you are low on lava, you can sometimes place the top layer of lava, have it flow, and then pick it up again. sometimes the lava flow will stay indefinitely until a block is placed nearby despite the lack of a source block.
another slightly more time consuming version (for the outside portion at least) is:
after placement, destroy the end soil and let the lava flow, then destroy the next, and the next until all soil is gone. you'll now have a 4 wide stream of lava from 1 source block. this forces players to either attempt to pillar over or it requires them to take some lava damage while digging through the furnace wall (which would be slowed since you would be in lava at the time). if you're like me and build walls to the max sky height, pillaring wont work on this type. this version can also be glitched out like the one before, where you can take out the source block and the lava will continue to flow until disrupted by a nearby block placement.
and for the actual wall portion and not just the lava defense, furnaces and gravel are your friend. gravel can be easily replaced from the very top of the wall, and furnaces are the most easily available wall block you can throw at your opponents. make use of lava, or at the very least water, to slow your opponent's digging speed.
just keep in mind, no fortress in impenetrable. a very patient or very smart player can get through any wall in a matter of time.
I always find hiding my chests the best solution to griefers. People will always find a way around your defenses. I played garry's mod for a while, where almost everyone griefed on each other. The best thing you can do is make it look like something isn't there. If I was looking for a secret hideaway and I found dirt without grass onto or torches placed to light up an area that doesn't need it, I would scout around.
This is one of my ideas I like to do.
[] [] [] []
[] []
This of course would be used in a cobblestone castle.
this is actually a really good design because while a nimrod is just holding down a mouse button as the sand falls infront of him going "who the hell makes a fortress out of sand?" he doesn't know hes creating a slope for the lava to fall right on his head.
[] [] [] [] []
[] [] []
mining obsidian unwater even with a dimond pick takes at least a few mins this will at least deture most greifers if not stop them entirely the only promblem is a way for you to get in
tunnel with obsidian walls into the seafloor.
Keep obsidian walls up for like ~20 blocks away from entrance if they decided to dig randomly.
Hide the entrance well. This of course is the hardest part.
[] []
[] []
[]
This way, it isn't cut down like a tree (unless the griefer is a TOTAL jerk) and you have a nice landmark :biggrin.gif:
Also, to make it even easier to find, make a beautiful flag on top of your house! (I'd also suggest adding an iron door)
Tree punchers. Everyone knows you use a pickaxe for rock, not your fists.
while that would most likly prevent anyone from stealing your stuff, im sure a griefer would just say screw it and light i on fire.