I'm a moral nihilist.
I don't believe in right, or wrong. I don't believe they really exist, that they are just labels applied to opinions by people who believe their opinion to be fact. By the way, I said "I don't believe". Let me clarify, this is my opinion. Everything before this, everything after this. This is the internet, and people seem to forget that if I'm saying it, it is my opinion.
I don't believe anyone does right or wrong, I feel we're all motivated the same way.
Someone helps out at a soup kitchen, donating his time and effort to feed those who cannot or cannot easily feed themselves. Either the person had extrinsic or intrinsic motives for doing so. They needed community service for something, or felt like they wanted to. In which case there were feelings attached to it; they just wanted to help out, or do something right. They're technically doing it for themselves, and the aid that the people received at the soup kitchen was just a byproduct of them fulfilling their desire to do what they believe is right.
Someone could murder someone, for intrinsic or extrinsic motives. Either they just wanted to kill someone, maybe they wanted revenge, or maybe they gained from the person's death. Hell, maybe even millions of people gained from this person's death.
I believe both action to be similar. A person doing what they want, for extrinsic or intrinsic motivations.
Because this is probably going to offend people I'm going to elaborate a little. Now there may be someone reading this who volunteers at a soup kitchen weekly and feels a little distressed that I fell they are the same as murderers. I say, do not be distressed, I don't look down on people for doing things they want simply because they want to. It has a real negative connotation, and I'm sorry that it does. I see everyone as equals, you do what you want for reasons, she does what she wants, I do what I want because I want to. (Even this post)
Now, how this pertains to Minecraft. It is always a free for all. People might form alliances, but betraying is very possible. People might just be so afraid of griefing that they form alliances with others.There are two methods of interaction, in game, and out of game. You build something and a griefer comes along and destroys it. You get sneaky and hide your buildings, the griefer tears up the land to find it and destroys it. You build traps, the griefer gets past those. All of these are in game interactions.
Then come out of game interactions such as banning, hacking, and global ban lists. It could escalate to these actions, or simply start there. Admins respond with bans, griefers find ways around bans. Who knows what will come next. If it does continue I'm fairly certain it will escalate. So no matter what happens, be ready and have a plan. I'll be here excited to see what everyone does.
You can dismiss everything I've written. Write me off as trolling, or call me a griefer. Either because you don't want to accept other's views, you believe in right and wrong, or just because you didn't want to read a post as long as mine. Nothing makes your choice bad in my eyes. Do whatever you feel like.
Although my post may imply otherwise, I love people.
global ban lists havent worked in any other game, atleast not on a server level for these very reasons, someone pays for a game, a child bans them, then someone want their money back. global banlists exsist on the developers side to alleviate this, servers or other players have to report to a overseer of everything, and they investigate. the problem is notch doesnt have the time for this, and i doubt hell ever make something to do it because now he needs more people to work for him to do it.
global banlists can work, but not at server level, a few community ban lists, like a clan having more then one server or a few well reputable servers sharing lists are a bit better, but the server has to have integrity or the list means nothing.
honestly theres no way to stop a global banlist, someone just has to upload a updating master list that a small client connects to and updates its own info, easy. servers will and already do use it. as far as an official one? if you were to do it i would say that the server must have been up for a certain duration, and that the community elected people to inspect it, that combined with reviews of the server would determine its eligibility. the banlist would have to be run by reputable members of the community that everyone trusts, and would have to be willing to deal with appeals and investigations. and like i said the server would have to prove its reputation before its allowed on the banlist network.
im not entirely for or agenst banlist's, however if it were to be done thats my idea on how to do it.
The rule specifically is against posting a list of users that are banned on a server/suspected of being a *****. Talking about a server program that deals with such a list is different from saying "Snowman is a griefer, don't let him on your server/ban him on sight" And as such unless higher-ups clarify the rule to include those or say this thread needs to go I'll allow this.
But to mind what people have said before. Only post to pose a new view or clarify an angle that has already been stated.
I haven't read all of the posts in this topic but here are my thoughts on this subject (Against the idea):
1. There is no standard of rules for all servers. Each server will have its own set of rules. Due to this fact alone it is foolish to have a universal ban list.
2. Ban on violation. The violation could have been an accident or the person committing the act may not even know it is in violation of the rules of that particular server.
I insist that griefers will be banned, and making it more knowledgable about who has been banned where, can only benefit. Again, this isn't new, its been done in the past, just not for Minecraft. Please, if you don't have anything constructive to add, and can't take the time to read (anything other than the thread title), then go troll elsewhere. Your reason for disliking a global banlist has been noted, and (for me) discarded. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, that's your problem. Resorting to insulting myself and my company isn't going to fly.
(For the record, the best is an opinion, and I reserve the right to refer to anything I do as the best. However, when I say we are one of the biggest, that's solid fact, and the only thing that matters in relation to this topic.)
Fail by mr. zeeg here.
Notice how he says "Resorting to insulting myself and my company isn't going to fly."
That's all you've been doing this whole time, Zeeg. You constantly tell us to "Go troll elsewhere" and have constantly insulted anyone who wants their input in here.
I would also like everyone to notice that, this topic, is about a global banlist, and he says: "However, when I say we are one of the biggest, that's solid fact, and the only thing that matters in relation to this topic."
How does your server being big relate to a global banlist at all?
All you've been doing, Zeeg, is telling us that insulting people is a bad thing and it doesn't matter who's running your server, yet at the same time you're insulting us and saying how your server is the biggest / best. I'm sorry, but please, take your own advice.
I'm sorry for bumping this at all, I shouldn't even be commenting any further. That I apologize for. Please, let this useless thread die.
P.S. I feel like a Prosecutor after writing this -.-
That is all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Server: ChrimiCraft (Under Construction)
My LP: None yet, I'm still getting it ready
I haven't read all of the posts in this topic but here are my thoughts on this subject (Against the idea):
1. There is no standard of rules for all servers. Each server will have its own set of rules. Due to this fact alone it is foolish to have a universal ban list.
2. Ban on violation. The violation could have been an accident or the person committing the act may not even know it is in violation of the rules of that particular server.
As a finishing note, I would like to give props to popalocke, Radishhead, and a few others. As popalocke said, someone could get banned for griefing, or saying something, that is allowed on other servers but not that one. If they get banned like that, it is unfair for them to be banned from servers that they did nothing wrong on.
Adding to that, it could go the other way around. Someone could be noob to minecraft, and join a random server. This just happens to be, a griefer server. He asks how to play, they teach him in a wrong way. Now, he goes to a different server. Of course, he gets banned. Now he can't go back to the griefer server to grief because that's what he likes to do.
See my point? If you don't like a griefer's point of view, I'll give you an admin's point of view.
Mr. Adminium here wants to go to some server that looks good. He doesn't like it, tells the admin there so, and gets banned before he could leave. Now, he can't get on his server. He can't get on any server simply because he told someone he didn't like THAT SPECIFIC SERVER.
Banlists bring no good.
That is all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Server: ChrimiCraft (Under Construction)
My LP: None yet, I'm still getting it ready
you do realise that there is a large amount of greifing because we are in alpha and people are still able easily to hack items into thier inventory. Which means that once this has been fixed the issue of griefers becomes massivley reduced. to blow stuff up they'll need to kill at least 5 creepers, to put lava on things they'll need to get enough iron for a fair few buckets, and so on. This all takes a while and so i doubt that many people will go to the effort to get these items to them and then go griefing. But that is beside the point.
banlists shared between servers are bad
global banlists are very bad.
all your doing is setting up a system where people are going to be banned from everywhere because perhaps a group of 'trusted server admins' don't like them or make mistakes. No one person is perfect, no system is foolproof and people who havent done anything are going to get banned.
Also the whole karma thing sounds bad too. This isn't a mmo, and invariably it will lead to people sucking up to op's and creating thier own little high and mighty groups. Leave the game free and open,that ways best. and if you are so worried about people griefing you, dont run a public server or get a whitlelist.
Can a moderator please do something about solidvapor302? Stop posting here. You're bordering on harassment and it's played out.
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I agree that banlists would be touchy due to varying rules on different servers, but this could be factored in as well (thus the reason this thread is about ideas rather then just saying "heres what is going to be done"). Maybe there are a set of categories for why someone is banned, and you can filter on those categories. For example, someone could be "disrespectful" and that'd be a global definition. Obviously it'd have to be defined, but ideally that can mean the same thing on any server.
I might have a go at making one of these, if I knew enough about PHP and so on...
But I don't. Sad times. I do however have somewhere a prototype could be hosted.
No worries about that I have the skills/space to throw something up. I may have a go at the data gathering service sometime this week, so at least people have a place to go to research players.
Can a moderator please do something about solidvapor302? Stop posting here. You're bordering on harassment and it's played out.
Solidvapor302's points are valid.
HIs personal attacks are not, and are not welcome. He's free to make valid points against the topic of this thread, but he moved on from that long ago.
Solid is doing a fine job disproving the use of a GBL. He's done nothing wrong from what I see.
Back to the point.
The idea of a GBL is just plain dumb when you come down to it. There can be a ban list, that's fine. What ever makes you happy. I, for one, think that a GBL will bring nothing but blame and mistrust to the servers. A GBL won't solve anything, I don't even think it will lessen the amount of Griefers already running around. But exactly what do you plan on accomplishing with a GBL???
I will have to ask Solid to cut down on the Lawyer talk a bit. That stuff is rather condescending and will breed some bad feelings. Feel free to bring up valid points, but be courteous about it.
Solid is doing a fine job disproving the use of a GBL. He's done nothing wrong from what I see.
Back to the point.
The idea of a GBL is just plain dumb when you come down to it. There can be a ban list, that's fine. What ever makes you happy. I, for one, think that a GBL will bring nothing but blame and mistrust to the servers. A GBL won't solve anything, I don't even think it will lessen the amount of Griefers already running around. But exactly what do you plan on accomplishing with a GBL???
What if it was just the data collection? I for one want to use that to my advantage to patrol the server, but all in all that's a hugely helpful service in itself.
nNa: I'm pretty sure it would be really annoying in the middle of the night when you are walking around your courtyard in the castle and an army of skeletons shoots arrows over the wall.
I don't believe in right, or wrong. I don't believe they really exist, that they are just labels applied to opinions by people who believe their opinion to be fact. By the way, I said "I don't believe". Let me clarify, this is my opinion. Everything before this, everything after this. This is the internet, and people seem to forget that if I'm saying it, it is my opinion.
I don't believe anyone does right or wrong, I feel we're all motivated the same way.
Someone helps out at a soup kitchen, donating his time and effort to feed those who cannot or cannot easily feed themselves. Either the person had extrinsic or intrinsic motives for doing so. They needed community service for something, or felt like they wanted to. In which case there were feelings attached to it; they just wanted to help out, or do something right. They're technically doing it for themselves, and the aid that the people received at the soup kitchen was just a byproduct of them fulfilling their desire to do what they believe is right.
Someone could murder someone, for intrinsic or extrinsic motives. Either they just wanted to kill someone, maybe they wanted revenge, or maybe they gained from the person's death. Hell, maybe even millions of people gained from this person's death.
I believe both action to be similar. A person doing what they want, for extrinsic or intrinsic motivations.
Because this is probably going to offend people I'm going to elaborate a little. Now there may be someone reading this who volunteers at a soup kitchen weekly and feels a little distressed that I fell they are the same as murderers. I say, do not be distressed, I don't look down on people for doing things they want simply because they want to. It has a real negative connotation, and I'm sorry that it does. I see everyone as equals, you do what you want for reasons, she does what she wants, I do what I want because I want to. (Even this post)
Now, how this pertains to Minecraft. It is always a free for all. People might form alliances, but betraying is very possible. People might just be so afraid of griefing that they form alliances with others.There are two methods of interaction, in game, and out of game. You build something and a griefer comes along and destroys it. You get sneaky and hide your buildings, the griefer tears up the land to find it and destroys it. You build traps, the griefer gets past those. All of these are in game interactions.
Then come out of game interactions such as banning, hacking, and global ban lists. It could escalate to these actions, or simply start there. Admins respond with bans, griefers find ways around bans. Who knows what will come next. If it does continue I'm fairly certain it will escalate. So no matter what happens, be ready and have a plan. I'll be here excited to see what everyone does.
You can dismiss everything I've written. Write me off as trolling, or call me a griefer. Either because you don't want to accept other's views, you believe in right and wrong, or just because you didn't want to read a post as long as mine. Nothing makes your choice bad in my eyes. Do whatever you feel like.
Although my post may imply otherwise, I love people.
global banlists can work, but not at server level, a few community ban lists, like a clan having more then one server or a few well reputable servers sharing lists are a bit better, but the server has to have integrity or the list means nothing.
honestly theres no way to stop a global banlist, someone just has to upload a updating master list that a small client connects to and updates its own info, easy. servers will and already do use it. as far as an official one? if you were to do it i would say that the server must have been up for a certain duration, and that the community elected people to inspect it, that combined with reviews of the server would determine its eligibility. the banlist would have to be run by reputable members of the community that everyone trusts, and would have to be willing to deal with appeals and investigations. and like i said the server would have to prove its reputation before its allowed on the banlist network.
im not entirely for or agenst banlist's, however if it were to be done thats my idea on how to do it.
But to mind what people have said before. Only post to pose a new view or clarify an angle that has already been stated.
1. There is no standard of rules for all servers. Each server will have its own set of rules. Due to this fact alone it is foolish to have a universal ban list.
2. Ban on violation. The violation could have been an accident or the person committing the act may not even know it is in violation of the rules of that particular server.
Fail by mr. zeeg here.
Notice how he says "Resorting to insulting myself and my company isn't going to fly."
That's all you've been doing this whole time, Zeeg. You constantly tell us to "Go troll elsewhere" and have constantly insulted anyone who wants their input in here.
I would also like everyone to notice that, this topic, is about a global banlist, and he says: "However, when I say we are one of the biggest, that's solid fact, and the only thing that matters in relation to this topic."
How does your server being big relate to a global banlist at all?
All you've been doing, Zeeg, is telling us that insulting people is a bad thing and it doesn't matter who's running your server, yet at the same time you're insulting us and saying how your server is the biggest / best. I'm sorry, but please, take your own advice.
I'm sorry for bumping this at all, I shouldn't even be commenting any further. That I apologize for. Please, let this useless thread die.
P.S. I feel like a Prosecutor after writing this -.-
That is all.
My LP: None yet, I'm still getting it ready
As a finishing note, I would like to give props to popalocke, Radishhead, and a few others. As popalocke said, someone could get banned for griefing, or saying something, that is allowed on other servers but not that one. If they get banned like that, it is unfair for them to be banned from servers that they did nothing wrong on.
Adding to that, it could go the other way around. Someone could be noob to minecraft, and join a random server. This just happens to be, a griefer server. He asks how to play, they teach him in a wrong way. Now, he goes to a different server. Of course, he gets banned. Now he can't go back to the griefer server to grief because that's what he likes to do.
See my point? If you don't like a griefer's point of view, I'll give you an admin's point of view.
Mr. Adminium here wants to go to some server that looks good. He doesn't like it, tells the admin there so, and gets banned before he could leave. Now, he can't get on his server. He can't get on any server simply because he told someone he didn't like THAT SPECIFIC SERVER.
Banlists bring no good.
That is all.
My LP: None yet, I'm still getting it ready
banlists shared between servers are bad
global banlists are very bad.
all your doing is setting up a system where people are going to be banned from everywhere because perhaps a group of 'trusted server admins' don't like them or make mistakes. No one person is perfect, no system is foolproof and people who havent done anything are going to get banned.
Also the whole karma thing sounds bad too. This isn't a mmo, and invariably it will lead to people sucking up to op's and creating thier own little high and mighty groups. Leave the game free and open,that ways best. and if you are so worried about people griefing you, dont run a public server or get a whitlelist.
Warning: Metawarning
----
I agree that banlists would be touchy due to varying rules on different servers, but this could be factored in as well (thus the reason this thread is about ideas rather then just saying "heres what is going to be done"). Maybe there are a set of categories for why someone is banned, and you can filter on those categories. For example, someone could be "disrespectful" and that'd be a global definition. Obviously it'd have to be defined, but ideally that can mean the same thing on any server.
No worries about that I have the skills/space to throw something up. I may have a go at the data gathering service sometime this week, so at least people have a place to go to research players.
Solidvapor302's points are valid.
HIs personal attacks are not, and are not welcome. He's free to make valid points against the topic of this thread, but he moved on from that long ago.
Back to the point.
The idea of a GBL is just plain dumb when you come down to it. There can be a ban list, that's fine. What ever makes you happy. I, for one, think that a GBL will bring nothing but blame and mistrust to the servers. A GBL won't solve anything, I don't even think it will lessen the amount of Griefers already running around. But exactly what do you plan on accomplishing with a GBL???
What if it was just the data collection? I for one want to use that to my advantage to patrol the server, but all in all that's a hugely helpful service in itself.
Your thoughts mirror mine, yet theres one big difference. I'am a Radical Subjectivist, and a misanthropist
www.filepak.com
nNa: I'm pretty sure it would be really annoying in the middle of the night when you are walking around your courtyard in the castle and an army of skeletons shoots arrows over the wall.