What ever makes the game more difficult is fine with me. Who cares about all those servers; they can adapt. 'Stone' stone tools would make more sense in a survival point of view. to the people who are like "But it makes it harder to build!" well... no. It just takes about 2 min to make a furnace and smelt a few things. It isn't a big inconvenience (unless you think about 1 min is THAT BAD. If you do you have problems) Minecraft is a survival game. (building with creative) Right now, the survival is WAY too easy. I can mine iron in about 5 min of game play. There's not challenge. With this, it could add just a little bit more of a challenge. To me, harder is more enjoyable.
To expand this idea I would make the current furnace a little worse and add another furnace that would be crafted with Stone bricks with the same crafting recipe. It would smelt like a current furnace. But only ores andstuf like that. For food you would need a Clay to make bricks. And with bricks you would craft A cooking stove- a specialised stove for cooking.
I think this is a good line of thought. While I wouldn't want the MC 2.0 type furnaces which blow up after making a dozen items, if cobblestone furnaces sort of "fell apart" where the contents spilled onto the ground after receiving so much "damage" by being used, then you could use stone to build more "permanent" furnaces.
I'm thinking about 200-250 or so items before a cobblestone furnace falling apart, but it could work. Restricting the kinds of items you could make in a cobblestone furnace might be an idea too. You could even extend this to the "earthen furnace" that was suggested earlier, where perhaps you could even make a furnace out of dirt and it would only last for about 30 or so items before it fell apart and be restricted to just cooking stone and charcoal (or some similar very limited items). An iron furnace could even be a possibility if you wanted to take it a step even further for a fourth tier of furnaces for some really exotic types of materials.
People keeping talking about this as new added difficulty and giving wood tools more purpose but does it really? Will that wood pick be any more valuable or is it going to get 11 uses instead of 3? Is that extra 12 seconds of waiting for cobble to smelt going to make stone tools that much more of a challenge or mean standing by a furnace for a bit before crafting the tool and being on your way to what you were actually doing.
I do think time can be part of a challenge in some mechanics, but here, here I don't see it. Stone tools are the cheap, dirty, on the fly tools. Quick to craft but not particularly fast or durable and they only can mine a limited set of resources. All this potential change would do is slow their crafting down. This doesn't make wood tools more appealing since wood tools are still abysmally slow and weak, and this won't stop players from moving to iron at any appreciable speed. All it would do is break stone tools a bit and I don't see any challenge added in that, just an annoyance.
Want wood tools to feel some love? Want players to spend a little more time at the base of the tech tree? Then its going to take more then adding 30 seconds to acquiring a pick that they can be done with in less then 5 minutes into the game.
People keeping talking about this as new added difficulty and giving wood tools more purpose but does it really? Will that wood pick be any more valuable or is it going to get 11 uses instead of 3? Is that extra 12 seconds of waiting for cobble to smelt going to make stone tools that much more of a challenge or mean standing by a furnace for a bit before crafting the tool and being on your way to what you were actually doing.
I do think time can be part of a challenge in some mechanics, but here, here I don't see it. Stone tools are the cheap, dirty, on the fly tools. Quick to craft but not particularly fast or durable and they only can mine a limited set of resources. All this potential change would do is slow their crafting down. This doesn't make wood tools more appealing since wood tools are still abysmally slow and weak, and this won't stop players from moving to iron at any appreciable speed. All it would do is break stone tools a bit and I don't see any challenge added in that, just an annoyance.
Want wood tools to feel some love? Want players to spend a little more time at the base of the tech tree? Then its going to take more then adding 30 seconds to acquiring a pick that they can be done with in less then 5 minutes into the game.
That's sort of the point though. What it would accomplish is to create more value to moving up to higher tier items. Wood gets little use now because its so easy to move up to stone. For many people (unlike you and I) they move on to iron as soon as possible too and almost never use stone again, and then eventually move on to diamond. But why are people like you and I hanging onto using the second lowest tool material? I know I do mainly to hoard iron and because I'm willing to put up with the slightly slower mining speed and less durability. However if stone were to become less convenient as this change would make it, then I might craft a few stone picks before I head out on a mining expedition and then craft iron picks on the fly once those run out. I usually pack some iron bars anyway for emergency armor replacement.
That's sort of the point though. What it would accomplish is to create more value to moving up to higher tier items. Wood gets little use now because its so easy to move up to stone. For many people (unlike you and I) they move on to iron as soon as possible too and almost never use stone again, and then eventually move on to diamond. But why are people like you and I hanging onto using the second lowest tool material? I know I do mainly to hoard iron and because I'm willing to put up with the slightly slower mining speed and less durability. However if stone were to become less convenient as this change would make it, then I might craft a few stone picks before I head out on a mining expedition and then craft iron picks on the fly once those run out. I usually pack some iron bars anyway for emergency armor replacement.
I guess my issue would be is that push necessary, are people who hold on to stone tools for there inexpensiveness and mobility an issue that needs to be "fixed"?
Like I said earlier, wood is really gonna see about 8 more uses before being tossed. While I'm sure it appreciates those few extra seconds, its doesn't really change anything there. As for still sticking with stone tools instead of switching right off to higher tiers, well I don't see an issue there.
The stone, iron, and diamond tiers are well defined and each have their pros and cons. For example, the pickaxes; stone is cheap, quick to make and break, slow mining speed, and limited in what it can gather. Iron is a step up in speed and durability but the resource is slightly less common and requires processing. Finally there's diamond, the strongest tools that surpass the others in all attributes except the resource is far rarer. So if you don't mind the extra time, stone works for mundane clearing. You trade your time for the ease of being able to make these tools cheap and on the go. You'll still need to make iron and diamonds to get up the tech tree, you can't really ignore them, you're just choose to spend time over resources on tasks like excavation or gathering sand. I don't see a need to make these players switch over to using higher tier tools in those cases if they're willing to sacrifice that extra time. When they feel their time is more valuable then the resource, when they want a project finished faster, they'll switch over otherwise let them play in the style they see fit.
Seriously, everyone saying "this change would buff wood..."
No, no it wouldn't. It would leave people stuck using the same crappy wood tools, just for longer. If you want stronger wood tools, upvote a suggestion for stronger wood tools, don't just blindly endorse every word that comes out of a Mojang staffer's iphone.
Seriously, everyone saying "this change would buff wood..."
Who said this would buff wood? It would make wood tools more valuable from the stand point of getting slightly more usage, and make stone tools a little more valuable because you need to put a smidgeon more effort into making them. That isn't a buff.
With Dinnerbone's move to make mobs gradually harder over time, it sounds like there will be a buff on wood tools anyway, after a fashion.
As for hanging on every word of the Mojang dev team, who was saying that they were always right? I've been rather critical of Mojang from time to time and I think they have made some stupid moves in the past... moves you and I would likely disagree upon as well. They make a fun game, which is why I bother posting on this forum in the first place... but they aren't gods. As mere mortals, they do make mistakes, where I hope they do learn to fix them from time to time. I just happen to think this might be one of those situations where it would be at least useful to reexamine basic ideas that are a part of the game, and thinking through the initial moves you must make in survival mode is a good one.
Umm... nope. They would use the leftover planks they had after building their workbench and wooden pick. (Or, if they were savvy, a plank, the wooden pick, and a stick/sapling.)
Why don't we just agree on that the stone tools should be broken down into two different tiers:
-Cobblestone tools (weaker than stone tools)
-Stone tools (stronger than cobblestone tools and is required to mine iron)
Think about it. Cobblestone is basically unrefined stone, and stone has a stronger build than cobblestone.
So I say that this should be the peacemaker.
And current furnaces can have different classes, too. As another person stated in this thread, there can be cobblestone, stone, iron, gold, and diamond furnaces.
-Stone smelts faster than cobblestone, but slower than iron. The same amount of fuel is spent at the same rate (i.e. one coal would still smelt only 8 items).
-Iron would smelt at a faster rate, but no fuel efficiency changes are made.
-Gold would be the heatmaker. It burns 2.5x as fast, but in exchange spends 2x the fuel to compensate. (So a piece of coal would smelt only 4 items and you'd need 2 logs to smelt only one item.) The smelting speed is doubled.
-Diamond can increase the fuel efficiency by 2x the amount, and sacrifices what you would think would be a fast smelting speed (coal would smelt 16 items per piece instead of 8). It would smelt only 2x faster than a normal cobblestone furnace.
I say that sounds brilliant, but that's my opinion.
I guess my issue would be is that push necessary, are people who hold on to stone tools for there inexpensiveness and mobility an issue that needs to be "fixed"?
Like I said earlier, wood is really gonna see about 8 more uses before being tossed. While I'm sure it appreciates those few extra seconds, its doesn't really change anything there. As for still sticking with stone tools instead of switching right off to higher tiers, well I don't see an issue there.
The stone, iron, and diamond tiers are well defined and each have their pros and cons. For example, the pickaxes; stone is cheap, quick to make and break, slow mining speed, and limited in what it can gather. Iron is a step up in speed and durability but the resource is slightly less common and requires processing. Finally there's diamond, the strongest tools that surpass the others in all attributes except the resource is far rarer. So if you don't mind the extra time, stone works for mundane clearing. You trade your time for the ease of being able to make these tools cheap and on the go. You'll still need to make iron and diamonds to get up the tech tree, you can't really ignore them, you're just choose to spend time over resources on tasks like excavation or gathering sand. I don't see a need to make these players switch over to using higher tier tools in those cases if they're willing to sacrifice that extra time. When they feel their time is more valuable then the resource, when they want a project finished faster, they'll switch over otherwise let them play in the style they see fit.
Hunger games servers can adapt. It's a change that would effect everyone so not unbalancing.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
I think this is a good line of thought. While I wouldn't want the MC 2.0 type furnaces which blow up after making a dozen items, if cobblestone furnaces sort of "fell apart" where the contents spilled onto the ground after receiving so much "damage" by being used, then you could use stone to build more "permanent" furnaces.
I'm thinking about 200-250 or so items before a cobblestone furnace falling apart, but it could work. Restricting the kinds of items you could make in a cobblestone furnace might be an idea too. You could even extend this to the "earthen furnace" that was suggested earlier, where perhaps you could even make a furnace out of dirt and it would only last for about 30 or so items before it fell apart and be restricted to just cooking stone and charcoal (or some similar very limited items). An iron furnace could even be a possibility if you wanted to take it a step even further for a fourth tier of furnaces for some really exotic types of materials.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
I do think time can be part of a challenge in some mechanics, but here, here I don't see it. Stone tools are the cheap, dirty, on the fly tools. Quick to craft but not particularly fast or durable and they only can mine a limited set of resources. All this potential change would do is slow their crafting down. This doesn't make wood tools more appealing since wood tools are still abysmally slow and weak, and this won't stop players from moving to iron at any appreciable speed. All it would do is break stone tools a bit and I don't see any challenge added in that, just an annoyance.
Want wood tools to feel some love? Want players to spend a little more time at the base of the tech tree? Then its going to take more then adding 30 seconds to acquiring a pick that they can be done with in less then 5 minutes into the game.
That's sort of the point though. What it would accomplish is to create more value to moving up to higher tier items. Wood gets little use now because its so easy to move up to stone. For many people (unlike you and I) they move on to iron as soon as possible too and almost never use stone again, and then eventually move on to diamond. But why are people like you and I hanging onto using the second lowest tool material? I know I do mainly to hoard iron and because I'm willing to put up with the slightly slower mining speed and less durability. However if stone were to become less convenient as this change would make it, then I might craft a few stone picks before I head out on a mining expedition and then craft iron picks on the fly once those run out. I usually pack some iron bars anyway for emergency armor replacement.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
I guess my issue would be is that push necessary, are people who hold on to stone tools for there inexpensiveness and mobility an issue that needs to be "fixed"?
Like I said earlier, wood is really gonna see about 8 more uses before being tossed. While I'm sure it appreciates those few extra seconds, its doesn't really change anything there. As for still sticking with stone tools instead of switching right off to higher tiers, well I don't see an issue there.
The stone, iron, and diamond tiers are well defined and each have their pros and cons. For example, the pickaxes; stone is cheap, quick to make and break, slow mining speed, and limited in what it can gather. Iron is a step up in speed and durability but the resource is slightly less common and requires processing. Finally there's diamond, the strongest tools that surpass the others in all attributes except the resource is far rarer. So if you don't mind the extra time, stone works for mundane clearing. You trade your time for the ease of being able to make these tools cheap and on the go. You'll still need to make iron and diamonds to get up the tech tree, you can't really ignore them, you're just choose to spend time over resources on tasks like excavation or gathering sand. I don't see a need to make these players switch over to using higher tier tools in those cases if they're willing to sacrifice that extra time. When they feel their time is more valuable then the resource, when they want a project finished faster, they'll switch over otherwise let them play in the style they see fit.
No, no it wouldn't. It would leave people stuck using the same crappy wood tools, just for longer. If you want stronger wood tools, upvote a suggestion for stronger wood tools, don't just blindly endorse every word that comes out of a Mojang staffer's iphone.
Who said this would buff wood? It would make wood tools more valuable from the stand point of getting slightly more usage, and make stone tools a little more valuable because you need to put a smidgeon more effort into making them. That isn't a buff.
With Dinnerbone's move to make mobs gradually harder over time, it sounds like there will be a buff on wood tools anyway, after a fashion.
As for hanging on every word of the Mojang dev team, who was saying that they were always right? I've been rather critical of Mojang from time to time and I think they have made some stupid moves in the past... moves you and I would likely disagree upon as well. They make a fun game, which is why I bother posting on this forum in the first place... but they aren't gods. As mere mortals, they do make mistakes, where I hope they do learn to fix them from time to time. I just happen to think this might be one of those situations where it would be at least useful to reexamine basic ideas that are a part of the game, and thinking through the initial moves you must make in survival mode is a good one.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
Umm... nope. They would use the leftover planks they had after building their workbench and wooden pick. (Or, if they were savvy, a plank, the wooden pick, and a stick/sapling.)
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
-Cobblestone tools (weaker than stone tools)
-Stone tools (stronger than cobblestone tools and is required to mine iron)
Think about it. Cobblestone is basically unrefined stone, and stone has a stronger build than cobblestone.
So I say that this should be the peacemaker.
And current furnaces can have different classes, too. As another person stated in this thread, there can be cobblestone, stone, iron, gold, and diamond furnaces.
-Stone smelts faster than cobblestone, but slower than iron. The same amount of fuel is spent at the same rate (i.e. one coal would still smelt only 8 items).
-Iron would smelt at a faster rate, but no fuel efficiency changes are made.
-Gold would be the heatmaker. It burns 2.5x as fast, but in exchange spends 2x the fuel to compensate. (So a piece of coal would smelt only 4 items and you'd need 2 logs to smelt only one item.) The smelting speed is doubled.
-Diamond can increase the fuel efficiency by 2x the amount, and sacrifices what you would think would be a fast smelting speed (coal would smelt 16 items per piece instead of 8). It would smelt only 2x faster than a normal cobblestone furnace.
I say that sounds brilliant, but that's my opinion.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
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