After 20 pages of discussion on this thread and on other threads, you coming here and accusing of cheaters people who make iron farms is just plain trolling. Either that, or you simply refuse to use your brain and to think before spewing your verbal diarrhea; which makes you a stupid. You choose.
Neither.
Why should Mojang let people make so much iron so easily? Tell me.
It's already in super abundant amounts in the ground, but it's not enough that people can make infinite amounts of it easily?
Sure, it's hard to do it, but what if there was a duplication bug that was really hard to preform, but once you successfully achieved it you could make infinites amount of any item? Yeah, that's what this is.
You can still make Iron farms, but they're heavily nerfed.
You have to kill the Iron golems now? Boo hoo for you.
You have to trade with villagers to make them breed. Sucks for you.
Just because you want your little iron factories to give you all you need, doesn't mean Mojang needs to bring it back.
Why should Mojang let people make so much iron so easily? Tell me.
I have nothing really to say to you. This discussion has already over extended its usefulness. It's just dragging itself until it finally dies. Everything you ask or have an opinion about has already been discussed in this thread.
Neither I have a desire to talk with someone who just barges in after the 20th page and insults everyone who builds farms by calling them cheaters. I don't even wish to look at your terminally ill posts anymore. You are beneath any desire to have an honest discussion.
Why should Mojang let people make so much iron so easily? Tell me.
It's already in super abundant amounts in the ground, but it's not enough that people can make infinite amounts of it easily?
Please, just read some of the previous responses on this thread. You post might have been appropriate for post #1 or #2 on the thread, but it shows sheer laziness on you part for even posting this without at least acknowledging some of the responses to your questions or what objections to your point of view might be.
my only disagreement with this is villager breeding, as that isn't just a nerf to the factories, it makes a normal, non-farming playstyle impossible to maintain villagers with.
also, as i mentioned before, it damages the magic circle:
The trading nerf was not the right control for building insta-cities (which is a problem in many more ways than iron golem farms). A much better control would be to require substantive construction per villager; instead of 3 doors per, require roughly what the current villages provide per villager: about 20 transparent solid blocks exposed to sky (=a pitched roof), 20 open spaces not exposed to sky (= interior space), 6 transparent blocks not exposed to sky (= furniture), and a door. Details aren't too important as long as you need something substantial. Sure, you could still abuse it with fields of stairs or some such but at least it would take *some* work and we wouldn't be actively punished for building reasonable villages.
I've not yet given up hope on seeing something like this in this upgrade. They do seem to be working on the villages, and introducing villager inventories makes me think they're working on villagers becoming more substantial entities than the livestock with abusable trade boxes they are now.
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Funny thing is in the latest snapshot Iron golems drop their loot upon a non player inflicted death, and villagers now breed without trading. So the only thing that came out of nerfing it for one snapshot is breaking village chaining, and a whole lot of angry people.
I upgraded to the latest snapshot after backing up my world and everything was fine but my perfect librarian is broken. He would not trade with me after one paper trade nor would he reset the paper trade even though the paper trade is last (9th trade). Am I doing something wrong?
Posting about it in a thread on iron farms might be one thing you're doing wrong... :-p
It's possible they've gotten rid of the old "last trade unlocks all" setup in the latest snapshot. Try doing any other trade available from him, and it's likely that your 'perfect' villager will update and be willing to trade paper again.
Posting about it in a thread on iron farms might be one thing you're doing wrong... :-p
It's possible they've gotten rid of the old "last trade unlocks all" setup in the latest snapshot. Try doing any other trade available from him, and it's likely that your 'perfect' villager will update and be willing to trade paper again.
I tried that and it didnt work. I was merely pointing out that there were in fact changes in the snapshot that did and still breaks previous villager mechanics (other than village chaining). That being said, I misunderstood what he said. I thought he was saying that all the changes were reverted back and nothing was nerfed. I was just pointing out that perfect villagers were indeed still nerfed, unless I was doing something wrong of course, but I guess not.
In that case, I'd guess that they took out the old trade-update setup and failed to properly patch the change so that it integrated new villagers to the new system. I'd suggest reporting said bug in the appropriate place for issues with snapshots, but I gather that's a bit of a hassle...
Having read all the posts, I agree with some and disagree with others. To post just to post and flame others or flame Mojang is not very productive. However those that have put thought and reason behind their posts one way or the other have the right idea. While I agree massive large mob farms can be taxing on a server the same could be said for massive beacons (I have personally seen people put 8+ in an area, talk about a lag producer...) My only complaint about things like this is it will literally kill specific game types like Skyblock. Skyblock is not about mining but making farms and contraptions to produce money. With changes like this brought on by Mojang, Skyblock is pretty much useless with the fact that villagers must be traded with for every single time they breed, and the fact that the mobs will not drop items anymore... Why bother playing Skyblock which is a very common pub server type. I can see changes like this for specific game types like factions or survival but to make it a blanket non-optional choice for the server admin is ridiculous.
Mojang take a bit of advice from a relatively new player but long time Systems Administrator with about 20 years in the IT Industry, instead of making this change, make it an option that server admins have the ability to turn on or off depending on game type and how they choose to run their servers. For those admins that like the change and think it will help there server they can turn it on, for those that think it will hurt their player they can keep it the way is currently is via switches in the configuration files. Give the choice to the people. I get the feeling this is a very bad idea your toying with that could seriously hurt your fans Mojang, you have a great game, don't screw it up like this.
It's May. There's one important lingering issue that everyone is overlooking on the simple iron farm nerfing. We all know Mojang reverted the "iron drop only on player kill" thing. There was a social media post about it from a Mojang worker that went something like "1500 posts on Reddit about iron farms, I'm not so stupid as to ignore that".
The point here is that Mojang only restored simple iron farms because of public outcry, not because they thought it was a good idea. The problem is still with us. Mojang's attitude is still anti-farming, and therefore anti-survival game. (since there is virtually nothing to do in survival but farm resources)
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People who intentionally desecrate a language are no different than griefers who tear things down because they are too immature and undisciplined to create, so instead they destroy out of jealousy.
I started to take a more roleplay-ish, survival look at the game after I had totally conquered my singleplayer world and had absolutely everything automated for me. I couldn't even open my own door! Iron golem farms are one of the worst ones out there IMO because you're basically imprisoning the things that you've been encouraged to save and protect since they were first added, and killing their guardians by the thousands. I know it's kind of stupid to look at the game as if those pixels are real and have feelings, but there's no point to the game if you can basically beat it within a few hours or days of starting it. It's not fun anymore. You know?
I wish Mojang would have kept the change, personally. Maybe reverting gold farms since pigmen still only drop nuggets compared to a golem's, what, five iron ingots sometimes?
(since there is virtually nothing to do in survival but farm resources)
Mining? As in Minecraft? Maybe you can call that farming in some sense but going out and mining iron ore isn't the same as farming iron golems. Also, IMO making automatic farms for everything would make the game rather boring since getting resources is one of the main points of Survival, unless you are mainly a builder, then I could see the need for a good supply of materials, but it still seems like it would be more fun to alternate between mining them and building.
Mining? As in Minecraft? Maybe you can call that farming in some sense but going out and mining iron ore isn't the same as farming iron golems. Also, IMO making automatic farms for everything would make the game rather boring since getting resources is one of the main points of Survival, unless you are mainly a builder, then I could see the need for a good supply of materials, but it still seems like it would be more fun to alternate between mining them and building.
I can't imagine what the IQ must be of the person who thinks that just standing there mining all day, day after day, is fun enough to constitute being called a game.
You gave yourself away when you said "would", not "did" or "does". In other words, you haven't tried it. And why haven't you? Yeah, because it's too hard, too much work and requires too much study. Not because it's boring.
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Minecraft Forum is the sewer of the Minecraft community.
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People who intentionally desecrate a language are no different than griefers who tear things down because they are too immature and undisciplined to create, so instead they destroy out of jealousy.
It's ironic that we have people who think that mining iron is too hard and needs to be "farmed" while on the other hand we have people who think that iron is too common. Myself, I mined over 18,000 iron ore in about a month. Eighteen thousand; that's enough iron to make 2,000 iron blocks.
Some people even think that (char)coal needs to be farmed, but just check out these stats to see why I disagree even more there, or lapis for enchanting being too hard to get; I got enough lapis to enchant over 1,600 times at level 3 even if it had been mined without Fortune III, which gives you 2.2x as much (same for coal and everything else except redstone); and while that was in a month of playing several hours a day, mostly caving, you can still get a lot in one play session, enough to last for a long time, just have to find a good cave, although that is harder in 1.7+, compared to the obscenely huge caves in my worlds or pre-1.7, unless you mod them (I mostly just explore caves for the exploration aspect, mining out whatever ores I find).
You are absolutely right. Who would think coal should be FARMED??? That is like, to me, the easiest ore to find.
I can't imagine what the IQ must be of the person who thinks that just standing there mining all day, day after day, is fun enough to constitute being called a game.
You gave yourself away when you said "would", not "did" or "does". In other words, you haven't tried it. And why haven't you? Yeah, because it's too hard, too much work and requires too much study. Not because it's boring.
Any guess to what I do most of the time when I play?
That was in just ONE play session, longer than most but 2500-3000 ore is typical for 3-4 hours; it only shows what I mined since starting the game/loading the world, I also got most of that from one cave system, and not a particularly large one, at least by pre-1.7 standards, and even 1.7 has enough caves to get a lifetimes worth of iron unless you want to make a mansion out of iron blocks or something.
See, I don't even need any farms (excluding food and wood) simply because of how I play (and it isn't just "standing there all day", presumably referring to strip/branch-mining, and this can certainly describe standing by a mob farm so they pile up, hence why people often go AFK to wait because it is, you know, boring).
Also, you can't farm diamonds with mob farms; you still need to actually mine to get them (yes, you can trade with a villager for tools/armor but that isn't quite as straightforward as "AFK and come back to a double chest of iron", and you still can't get actual diamonds, for example, for diamond blocks or repairing).
(oh, and I know the basics of making a mob farm and I can definitely build; just take a look at this)
The problem is still with us. Mojang's attitude is still anti-farming, and therefore anti-survival game. (since there is virtually nothing to do in survival but farm resources)
That's giving Mojang too much credit. The problem is they don't think through their 'solutions' to problems.
They have an issue that the competitive multiplayer crowd wants something other than the original game, and rather than address this, they have been trying to morph Minecraft into a different game altogether. Until multiplayer is handled more logically (gamerules, hello...?), there will continue to be this level of stupidity from them presented as 'fixes' and applauded by those who play differently from the crowd that got nerfed (mostly the competitive multiplayer crowd, but with a spattering of others who simply have a different playstyle).
it still seems like it would be more fun to alternate between mining them and building.
It's not.
It can be as fun to alternate with caving (take a break to explore), but not with (branch/strip) mining - which is the efficient way to get the resources to return to building. And do you see the flaw there? Even those who like exploring can find themselves stuck mining to get resources when they go back to their building - which is part of why they build farms.
It can be as fun to alternate with caving (take a break to explore), but not with (branch/strip) mining - which is the efficient way to get the resources to return to building. And do you see the flaw there? Even those who like exploring can find themselves stuck mining to get resources when they go back to their building - which is part of why they build farms.
Really? Unless you are talking about diamonds, caving is much more efficient, especially when you consider (number of ore mined)/(total number of blocks mined), as noted in the Wiki; I've previously mentioned complaints about how easy it is to get iron from caves. Of course, branch mining gives you a lot of cobblestone, which you may be using to build with, but I'm just referring to ores, particularly iron, the subject of this thread.
Neither.
Why should Mojang let people make so much iron so easily? Tell me.
It's already in super abundant amounts in the ground, but it's not enough that people can make infinite amounts of it easily?
Sure, it's hard to do it, but what if there was a duplication bug that was really hard to preform, but once you successfully achieved it you could make infinites amount of any item? Yeah, that's what this is.
You can still make Iron farms, but they're heavily nerfed.
You have to kill the Iron golems now? Boo hoo for you.
You have to trade with villagers to make them breed. Sucks for you.
Just because you want your little iron factories to give you all you need, doesn't mean Mojang needs to bring it back.
The bigger question: Why shouldn't they?
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I have nothing really to say to you. This discussion has already over extended its usefulness. It's just dragging itself until it finally dies. Everything you ask or have an opinion about has already been discussed in this thread.
Neither I have a desire to talk with someone who just barges in after the 20th page and insults everyone who builds farms by calling them cheaters. I don't even wish to look at your terminally ill posts anymore. You are beneath any desire to have an honest discussion.
yeaah no.
Please, just read some of the previous responses on this thread. You post might have been appropriate for post #1 or #2 on the thread, but it shows sheer laziness on you part for even posting this without at least acknowledging some of the responses to your questions or what objections to your point of view might be.
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The trading nerf was not the right control for building insta-cities (which is a problem in many more ways than iron golem farms). A much better control would be to require substantive construction per villager; instead of 3 doors per, require roughly what the current villages provide per villager: about 20 transparent solid blocks exposed to sky (=a pitched roof), 20 open spaces not exposed to sky (= interior space), 6 transparent blocks not exposed to sky (= furniture), and a door. Details aren't too important as long as you need something substantial. Sure, you could still abuse it with fields of stairs or some such but at least it would take *some* work and we wouldn't be actively punished for building reasonable villages.
I've not yet given up hope on seeing something like this in this upgrade. They do seem to be working on the villages, and introducing villager inventories makes me think they're working on villagers becoming more substantial entities than the livestock with abusable trade boxes they are now.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I upgraded to the latest snapshot after backing up my world and everything was fine but my perfect librarian is broken. He would not trade with me after one paper trade nor would he reset the paper trade even though the paper trade is last (9th trade). Am I doing something wrong?
It's possible they've gotten rid of the old "last trade unlocks all" setup in the latest snapshot. Try doing any other trade available from him, and it's likely that your 'perfect' villager will update and be willing to trade paper again.
I tried that and it didnt work. I was merely pointing out that there were in fact changes in the snapshot that did and still breaks previous villager mechanics (other than village chaining). That being said, I misunderstood what he said. I thought he was saying that all the changes were reverted back and nothing was nerfed. I was just pointing out that perfect villagers were indeed still nerfed, unless I was doing something wrong of course, but I guess not.
Having read all the posts, I agree with some and disagree with others. To post just to post and flame others or flame Mojang is not very productive. However those that have put thought and reason behind their posts one way or the other have the right idea. While I agree massive large mob farms can be taxing on a server the same could be said for massive beacons (I have personally seen people put 8+ in an area, talk about a lag producer...) My only complaint about things like this is it will literally kill specific game types like Skyblock. Skyblock is not about mining but making farms and contraptions to produce money. With changes like this brought on by Mojang, Skyblock is pretty much useless with the fact that villagers must be traded with for every single time they breed, and the fact that the mobs will not drop items anymore... Why bother playing Skyblock which is a very common pub server type. I can see changes like this for specific game types like factions or survival but to make it a blanket non-optional choice for the server admin is ridiculous.
Mojang take a bit of advice from a relatively new player but long time Systems Administrator with about 20 years in the IT Industry, instead of making this change, make it an option that server admins have the ability to turn on or off depending on game type and how they choose to run their servers. For those admins that like the change and think it will help there server they can turn it on, for those that think it will hurt their player they can keep it the way is currently is via switches in the configuration files. Give the choice to the people. I get the feeling this is a very bad idea your toying with that could seriously hurt your fans Mojang, you have a great game, don't screw it up like this.
The point here is that Mojang only restored simple iron farms because of public outcry, not because they thought it was a good idea. The problem is still with us. Mojang's attitude is still anti-farming, and therefore anti-survival game. (since there is virtually nothing to do in survival but farm resources)
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Minecraft Forum is the sewer of the Minecraft community.
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People who intentionally desecrate a language are no different than griefers who tear things down because they are too immature and undisciplined to create, so instead they destroy out of jealousy.
I wish Mojang would have kept the change, personally. Maybe reverting gold farms since pigmen still only drop nuggets compared to a golem's, what, five iron ingots sometimes?
Mining? As in Minecraft? Maybe you can call that farming in some sense but going out and mining iron ore isn't the same as farming iron golems. Also, IMO making automatic farms for everything would make the game rather boring since getting resources is one of the main points of Survival, unless you are mainly a builder, then I could see the need for a good supply of materials, but it still seems like it would be more fun to alternate between mining them and building.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I can't imagine what the IQ must be of the person who thinks that just standing there mining all day, day after day, is fun enough to constitute being called a game.
You gave yourself away when you said "would", not "did" or "does". In other words, you haven't tried it. And why haven't you? Yeah, because it's too hard, too much work and requires too much study. Not because it's boring.
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Minecraft Forum is the sewer of the Minecraft community.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People who intentionally desecrate a language are no different than griefers who tear things down because they are too immature and undisciplined to create, so instead they destroy out of jealousy.
You are absolutely right. Who would think coal should be FARMED??? That is like, to me, the easiest ore to find.
Any guess to what I do most of the time when I play?
That was in just ONE play session, longer than most but 2500-3000 ore is typical for 3-4 hours; it only shows what I mined since starting the game/loading the world, I also got most of that from one cave system, and not a particularly large one, at least by pre-1.7 standards, and even 1.7 has enough caves to get a lifetimes worth of iron unless you want to make a mansion out of iron blocks or something.
See, I don't even need any farms (excluding food and wood) simply because of how I play (and it isn't just "standing there all day", presumably referring to strip/branch-mining, and this can certainly describe standing by a mob farm so they pile up, hence why people often go AFK to wait because it is, you know, boring).
Also, you can't farm diamonds with mob farms; you still need to actually mine to get them (yes, you can trade with a villager for tools/armor but that isn't quite as straightforward as "AFK and come back to a double chest of iron", and you still can't get actual diamonds, for example, for diamond blocks or repairing).
(oh, and I know the basics of making a mob farm and I can definitely build; just take a look at this)
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
That's giving Mojang too much credit. The problem is they don't think through their 'solutions' to problems.
They have an issue that the competitive multiplayer crowd wants something other than the original game, and rather than address this, they have been trying to morph Minecraft into a different game altogether. Until multiplayer is handled more logically (gamerules, hello...?), there will continue to be this level of stupidity from them presented as 'fixes' and applauded by those who play differently from the crowd that got nerfed (mostly the competitive multiplayer crowd, but with a spattering of others who simply have a different playstyle).
I want to say... "Yes, and they were largely ignored. Like you."
It's not.
It can be as fun to alternate with caving (take a break to explore), but not with (branch/strip) mining - which is the efficient way to get the resources to return to building. And do you see the flaw there? Even those who like exploring can find themselves stuck mining to get resources when they go back to their building - which is part of why they build farms.
Really? Unless you are talking about diamonds, caving is much more efficient, especially when you consider (number of ore mined)/(total number of blocks mined), as noted in the Wiki; I've previously mentioned complaints about how easy it is to get iron from caves. Of course, branch mining gives you a lot of cobblestone, which you may be using to build with, but I'm just referring to ores, particularly iron, the subject of this thread.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?