As a player that almost never dies, I never found myself having so much fun a when I popped the 1.6pre jar into my bin folder. Having the single least threatening mob upgraded to be the #1 threat puts real difficulty back into the night, as survival is supposed to be. I play almost exclusively on Hard and since I'm a miser I avoid wearing armor until mid-late game entirely.
The main problem I have with the new zombie mechanics is the increased aggro range.
I prefer the building aspect of the game over the adventuring. Before the update, I could choose not to go out and fight mobs unless I wanted to. I could safely build at night as long as the area was lit, and I would only have to stop for the occasional spider or skeleton.
But now, I don't have a choice. I am forced to fight off zombies every two seconds. I want to be able to build in peace, not have to stay inside all night!
Skeletons are just plain annoying now. The knockback on their arrows needs to be nerfed. You can't even get near them unless you sneak up on them or you are an expert at strafing.
I can't stand the people who complain that the game isn't hard enough. It was made as a sandbox, not an RPG. If you don't think the monsters are hard enough, there are other games you can play.
It's like going to an Italian restaurant and saying that their food isn't good because you only like Mexican.
Many solutions
Set to peaceful
Sleep in bed
Gamerule keepinventory
"I can't stand the people who complain that the game isn't hard enough. It was made as a sandbox, not an RPG. If you don't think the monsters are hard enough, there are other games you can play."
Then go play creative instead of survival, problem solved if you don't like what's in survival.
I feel like I am the only one who likes these changes. You make top security on villages, and you think no zombies will get in, but they do, and you and the iron golems have a big battle to save them.
For noobs it is annoying though
You aren't the only one friend. I love the new changes. I do however understand that everyone wants more control over how they play and I support a more powerful difficulty setting menu.
It's like going to an Italian restaurant and saying that their food isn't good because you only like Mexican.
Heh, I like that...
In fact - it works pretty well to describe the general problem of updates - if you go regularly to an Italian restaurant 'cause you like their food and the staff are friendly, and it has a great ambiance, you'd be bound to be upset/disappointed if they gradually started to change their menu to Mexican food. It might be good Mexican food, you might even like it, but if it's not what you came for, or what you expect, or what you wanted, you're going to be annoyed about it!
And folk who like the new stuff might say "WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? THESE ARE THE BEST ITALIAN TACOS IN TOWN!"...but you just really want that awesome lasagne back...
I like to play on hardcore, and I like to live in villages. You have *no idea* how hard this game is now.
I wasn't really playing Minecraft as a "survival horror" game; there's other games, with actual graphics and plot, like The Last of Us, that do it way better. I play Minecraft to build & explore, and these new zombies put a real cramp in that. What's worse, they're "cheaty"; the thing with them spawning other zombies when you hit them makes no sense whatsoever.
This zombie AI update was not an improvement. I would prefer it be toned-down. Whoever was complaining that Minecraft "isn't hard enough" are playing the wrong game, for the wrong reasons.
This zombie AI update was not an improvement. I would prefer it be toned-down. Whoever was complaining that Minecraft "isn't hard enough" are playing the wrong game, for the wrong reasons.
*snip*
I don't think it supports your cause to alienate people like me that really did think the game was too easy. Saying I'm playing the wrong game when I sink 20+ hours a week into minecraft alongside work and 3 kids just isn't fair.
The clear answer to this lies in the improvement of the difficulty menu. Why can't we toggle the zombie mechanics on and off alongside the easy/normal/hard? Maybe it would be as simple as having it be on Hard only.
No it isn't. It's like spending the last 4 years eating at a restaurant that serves Italian and Mexican, and a few weeks ago one of the chefs came out carrying a gigantic vat of their second hottest Mexican curry, tripped, and the whole lot went over most peoples meals.
And so far, none of the staff have started cleaning the mess up yet.
Quite possibly the best anology so far; doesn't look like the staff want to do it either.
It doesn't help that all the supporters are taking to Twitter and are ferociously backing up Dinnerbone for the feature.
Perhaps we should all move onto Twitter to show how much the majority think of it. Just sayin'.
*snip*
I don't think it supports your cause to alienate people like me that really did think the game was too easy. Saying I'm playing the wrong game when I sink 20+ hours a week into minecraft alongside work and 3 kids just isn't fair.
The clear answer to this lies in the improvement of the difficulty menu. Why can't we toggle the zombie mechanics on and off alongside the easy/normal/hard? Maybe it would be as simple as having it be on Hard only.
That's just my opinion; your mileage may vary. I honestly think if you *love* survival horror...I dabble at it myself... Minecraft is hardly the best thing on the market for that.
You know I wonder if this zombie issue is the offspring of that whole casual vs hardcore mentality of gamers, where everything has to be either/or. But in this case it's just silly, there are difficulty options available, everyone can have the level of challenge that they desire without the need to install a mod.
But in this case it's just silly, there are difficulty options available, everyone can have the level of challenge that they desire without the need to install a mod.
That would be great, IF that were the case, but IT'S NOT! The difficulty options have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the new zombie mechanics. You get the SAME zombie mechanics no matter WHAT difficulty setting you choose (other than peaceful). THAT is the problem!
Thing is, while I think the changes to zombies were a neat idea in theory, they could have been implemented much better than they were. I've been rolling the idea around in my head for a while now. Not that I've had much else to do. The lag caused by their pathfinding algorithm has seen to that. Here's where I'm at:
Setting the new mechanics to hard only seems like a good idea to start with, at least until something more in-depth can be done with it. However, I know that at least a few of the people who like to play on hard find the zombies annoying. They might find dealing with them distracts them from things they'd rather be doing, or they don't like having to waste inventory space on the extra swords they could go through fighting them, or, again, there's still the lag issue. Likewise, I can imagine someone who plays on easy perhaps wanting to fight wave after wave of zombies, gaining a feeling of power and accomplishment. Everyone deserves to have fun in their own way.
I've heard people say that it could be a gamerule, which is an idea I could get behind. There are a few people (myself included, actually) that would prefer to avoid having to use "cheat codes" just to play the game the way they want, but I'm sure I could get over having to use one little console command if it means I could play again. Of course, I'd have to abandon my old world (since cheats are disabled on it). Plus I think we'd be missing out on an opportunity if we just stuck to the quick and easy solutions.
So here's my idea:
What if we rolled back zombies to the way they were in 1.5.2, and created a new subclass of zombies (called hoard zombies)?
Their aggro range would probably have to be nerfed back to the pre-1.6 range to avoid lag issues, but to compensate, their attacks could inflict hunger on their victims and they wouldn't burn in the sunlight. Perhaps they could also have a better chance of dropping some of their gear to discourage the easy way of killing them via lava bucket, reward those who succeeded in taking them on, and to compensate for the difficulty of finding where they would spawn: a new technical biome/large structure, the Abandoned City.
The city would generate as often as strongholds, so those who don't want to fight waves of zombies could just not look for them, while those who want the challenge can gear up and go out on an adventure to loot the place and possibly even convert it into a functioning city again.
It could have a high wall surrounding the entire thing, perhaps with iron bar and sticky piston gates along it. With run down buildings, overpasses, and basements all over the place to supply dark areas for hoard zombies to spawn in, once you're inside the wall, they won't stop, nor would you know what's lurking around the corner and in every alleyway. Perhaps a few surviving glowstone lamps could still be lining the street with a prominent half-collapsed town hall in the center with a quartz pillar facade. In the basement of the town hall would be a vault concealing the treasury (full of loot, of course) as well as a nether portal which would explain both where they got the glowstone/quartz, as well as what may have happened to the city to cause the zombie apocalypse.
Of course, there could be a few balance issues to work out in the details, but that's just my general idea. For the record, I doubt by the time someone was ready to tackle the city that the hoard zombie's drops, the portal, or the loot of the treasury would be too generous, or even particularly helpful, to be honest. Maybe they could rarely drop emeralds, I don't know.
And I apologize if I got a little wordy. I just had to get this out of my system. It just really annoys me sometimes when something is just overkilled like this. It's like trying to do laser eye surgery with a shotgun: it goes about as well as you'd expect.
By the way, kinda new here (usually just pop in to grab new updates to the texture pack I use), would it be a good idea to post this over in suggestions, or would I just be wasting my time? Would Jeb or Dinnerbone even see it? Would they even care? :/
What if we rolled back zombies to the way they were in 1.5.2, and created a new subclass of zombies (called hoard zombies)?
Their aggro range would probably have to be nerfed back to the pre-1.6 range to avoid lag issues, but to compensate, their attacks could inflict hunger on their victims and they wouldn't burn in the sunlight. Perhaps they could also have a better chance of dropping some of their gear to discourage the easy way of killing them via lava bucket, reward those who succeeded in taking them on, and to compensate for the difficulty of finding where they would spawn: a new technical biome/large structure, the Abandoned City.
The city would generate as often as strongholds, so those who don't want to fight waves of zombies could just not look for them, while those who want the challenge can gear up and go out on an adventure to loot the place and possibly even convert it into a functioning city again.
It could have a high wall surrounding the entire thing, perhaps with iron bar and sticky piston gates along it. With run down buildings, overpasses, and basements all over the place to supply dark areas for hoard zombies to spawn in, once you're inside the wall, they won't stop, nor would you know what's lurking around the corner and in every alleyway. Perhaps a few surviving glowstone lamps could still be lining the street with a prominent half-collapsed town hall in the center with a quartz pillar facade. In the basement of the town hall would be a vault concealing the treasury (full of loot, of course) as well as a nether portal which would explain both where they got the glowstone/quartz, as well as what may have happened to the city to cause the zombie apocalypse.
Of course, there could be a few balance issues to work out in the details, but that's just my general idea. For the record, I doubt by the time someone was ready to tackle the city that the hoard zombie's drops, the portal, or the loot of the treasury would be too generous, or even particularly helpful, to be honest. Maybe they could rarely drop emeralds, I don't know.
And I apologize if I got a little wordy. I just had to get this out of my system. It just really annoys me sometimes when something is just overkilled like this. It's like trying to do laser eye surgery with a shotgun: it goes about as well as you'd expect.
By the way, kinda new here (usually just pop in to grab new updates to the texture pack I use), would it be a good idea to post this over in suggestions, or would I just be wasting my time? Would Jeb or Dinnerbone even see it? Would they even care? :/
While not everything you propose is 100% for me, you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
This is the very first really positive solution I have read on the whole zombie debate. You've tried to come up with a way to keep everyone happy and that is the key.
The downsides to this I can see is it will break the spawnerless zombie xp farms that many members of the community have created and the sheer content you are talking about would put it in a distant update instead if a soon-to-come 1.6.3 or a 1.7x like a difficulty menu tweak could.
The 1.6.1 added a feature where zombies spawn other zombies if one zombie takes damage. A lot of people dont like this feature but I love it. It makes zombies feel more like zombies and it makes xp easier to get and is for sure a lot of fun.
That would be great, IF that were the case, but IT'S NOT! The difficulty options have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the new zombie mechanics. You get the SAME zombie mechanics no matter WHAT difficulty setting you choose (other than peaceful). THAT is the problem!
I know that is the problem. I was commenting that it was stupid that this was a problem because the fix for this should be so simple on Mojang's part.
While not everything you propose is 100% for me, you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
This is the very first really positive solution I have read on the whole zombie debate. You've tried to come up with a way to keep everyone happy and that is the key.
The downsides to this I can see is it will break the spawnerless zombie xp farms that many members of the community have created and the sheer content you are talking about would put it in a distant update instead if a soon-to-come 1.6.3 or a 1.7x like a difficulty menu tweak could.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a hard-only or a /gamerule solution to bridge the gap between now and when they get something like this going (assuming they do). I hadn't thought of the xp grinders though. It's a good point, too. I'm not sure what could be done short of saying "Move it to an abandoned city." Which I'd say is almost as condescending as saying "Just play Creative/on Peaceful." or "Just sleep in your bed/hide inside your house all night."
All of them sound like "Just be better at the game, idiot." to me....
There really isn't an easy solution, is there?
EDIT: Or maybe there is? What if, in addition to the city, the social zombie mechanics were ALSO a gamerule for regular zombies (preferrably defaulted to off)?
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a hard-only or a /gamerule solution to bridge the gap between now and when they get something like this going (assuming they do).
I like your ideas, but honestly, a "hard-only" or /gamerule solution is necessary regardless of what they may (or may not) do to improve this new feature.
There will always be beginners and casuals in Minecraft that don't want to be forced to play on peaceful, but don't want to deal with anything more difficult than what they've been used to forever. I realize that many people seem to want more challenge, but not everyone does. Until Mojang realizes this, and removes all of this additional "difficulty" (yes, it still belongs in sarcasm quotes) from at least the "Easy" setting, these changes will continue to cause beginners and casuals to abandon the game (or not update).
I'm not sure what could be done short of saying "Move it to an abandoned city." Which I'd say is almost as condescending as saying "Just play Creative/on Peaceful." or "Just sleep in your bed/hide inside your house all night."
All of them sound like "Just be better at the game, idiot." to me....
Indeed. It seems like some who like the zombies as they are just want the game plain harder; they have no patience for those who like it as it was before and could care less if they're trying to cope with it. "We like it hard mode in ALL da modes!"
Seriously? I read these comments and people say it's too hard now.
I think Minecraft should be zombie survival, what it is now, and people who complaing about the difficulty now;
It's the best feature in Minecraft now.
I want my playing to be scary and hard. Not easy and peaceful. 1.4 was peaceful, but now, 1.6 is now the hard and scary.
Before you didn't need to build a base to survive a night. Just stay under a tree and you will be fine. But now... it is hard. You HAVE to have a shelter...
I love the update.
I thinky your exaggerating how easy the game might have been. Downgrade back to 1.5 and tell me if you could just hole up around a tree after first spawning. Tell me and survive the whole game; and then we talk.
I guess you said that... that's all. I'm not angry about it, just disappointed.
Many solutions
Set to peaceful
Sleep in bed
Gamerule keepinventory
"I can't stand the people who complain that the game isn't hard enough. It was made as a sandbox, not an RPG. If you don't think the monsters are hard enough, there are other games you can play."
Then go play creative instead of survival, problem solved if you don't like what's in survival.
You aren't the only one friend. I love the new changes. I do however understand that everyone wants more control over how they play and I support a more powerful difficulty setting menu.
Heh, I like that...
In fact - it works pretty well to describe the general problem of updates - if you go regularly to an Italian restaurant 'cause you like their food and the staff are friendly, and it has a great ambiance, you'd be bound to be upset/disappointed if they gradually started to change their menu to Mexican food. It might be good Mexican food, you might even like it, but if it's not what you came for, or what you expect, or what you wanted, you're going to be annoyed about it!
And folk who like the new stuff might say "WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? THESE ARE THE BEST ITALIAN TACOS IN TOWN!"...but you just really want that awesome lasagne back...
...I think I need to go and get some lunch.
I wasn't really playing Minecraft as a "survival horror" game; there's other games, with actual graphics and plot, like The Last of Us, that do it way better. I play Minecraft to build & explore, and these new zombies put a real cramp in that. What's worse, they're "cheaty"; the thing with them spawning other zombies when you hit them makes no sense whatsoever.
This zombie AI update was not an improvement. I would prefer it be toned-down. Whoever was complaining that Minecraft "isn't hard enough" are playing the wrong game, for the wrong reasons.
"Won't someone think of the villager children??"
*snip*
I don't think it supports your cause to alienate people like me that really did think the game was too easy. Saying I'm playing the wrong game when I sink 20+ hours a week into minecraft alongside work and 3 kids just isn't fair.
The clear answer to this lies in the improvement of the difficulty menu. Why can't we toggle the zombie mechanics on and off alongside the easy/normal/hard? Maybe it would be as simple as having it be on Hard only.
Why can't we all have our cake and eat it too?
Quite possibly the best anology so far; doesn't look like the staff want to do it either.
It doesn't help that all the supporters are taking to Twitter and are ferociously backing up Dinnerbone for the feature.
Perhaps we should all move onto Twitter to show how much the majority think of it. Just sayin'.
Minecraft Left 4 Dead!!!!!!! xD
That's just my opinion; your mileage may vary. I honestly think if you *love* survival horror...I dabble at it myself... Minecraft is hardly the best thing on the market for that.
Agreed x1001 on toggling.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0OtPNZX22RvZVeq4-dHa8GYKOc5lojKX
I wanted to be one of the cool kids.
That would be great, IF that were the case, but IT'S NOT! The difficulty options have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the new zombie mechanics. You get the SAME zombie mechanics no matter WHAT difficulty setting you choose (other than peaceful). THAT is the problem!
Setting the new mechanics to hard only seems like a good idea to start with, at least until something more in-depth can be done with it. However, I know that at least a few of the people who like to play on hard find the zombies annoying. They might find dealing with them distracts them from things they'd rather be doing, or they don't like having to waste inventory space on the extra swords they could go through fighting them, or, again, there's still the lag issue. Likewise, I can imagine someone who plays on easy perhaps wanting to fight wave after wave of zombies, gaining a feeling of power and accomplishment. Everyone deserves to have fun in their own way.
I've heard people say that it could be a gamerule, which is an idea I could get behind. There are a few people (myself included, actually) that would prefer to avoid having to use "cheat codes" just to play the game the way they want, but I'm sure I could get over having to use one little console command if it means I could play again. Of course, I'd have to abandon my old world (since cheats are disabled on it). Plus I think we'd be missing out on an opportunity if we just stuck to the quick and easy solutions.
So here's my idea:
What if we rolled back zombies to the way they were in 1.5.2, and created a new subclass of zombies (called hoard zombies)?
Their aggro range would probably have to be nerfed back to the pre-1.6 range to avoid lag issues, but to compensate, their attacks could inflict hunger on their victims and they wouldn't burn in the sunlight. Perhaps they could also have a better chance of dropping some of their gear to discourage the easy way of killing them via lava bucket, reward those who succeeded in taking them on, and to compensate for the difficulty of finding where they would spawn: a new technical biome/large structure, the Abandoned City.
The city would generate as often as strongholds, so those who don't want to fight waves of zombies could just not look for them, while those who want the challenge can gear up and go out on an adventure to loot the place and possibly even convert it into a functioning city again.
It could have a high wall surrounding the entire thing, perhaps with iron bar and sticky piston gates along it. With run down buildings, overpasses, and basements all over the place to supply dark areas for hoard zombies to spawn in, once you're inside the wall, they won't stop, nor would you know what's lurking around the corner and in every alleyway. Perhaps a few surviving glowstone lamps could still be lining the street with a prominent half-collapsed town hall in the center with a quartz pillar facade. In the basement of the town hall would be a vault concealing the treasury (full of loot, of course) as well as a nether portal which would explain both where they got the glowstone/quartz, as well as what may have happened to the city to cause the zombie apocalypse.
Of course, there could be a few balance issues to work out in the details, but that's just my general idea. For the record, I doubt by the time someone was ready to tackle the city that the hoard zombie's drops, the portal, or the loot of the treasury would be too generous, or even particularly helpful, to be honest. Maybe they could rarely drop emeralds, I don't know.
And I apologize if I got a little wordy. I just had to get this out of my system. It just really annoys me sometimes when something is just overkilled like this. It's like trying to do laser eye surgery with a shotgun: it goes about as well as you'd expect.
By the way, kinda new here (usually just pop in to grab new updates to the texture pack I use), would it be a good idea to post this over in suggestions, or would I just be wasting my time? Would Jeb or Dinnerbone even see it? Would they even care? :/
While not everything you propose is 100% for me, you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
This is the very first really positive solution I have read on the whole zombie debate. You've tried to come up with a way to keep everyone happy and that is the key.
The downsides to this I can see is it will break the spawnerless zombie xp farms that many members of the community have created and the sheer content you are talking about would put it in a distant update instead if a soon-to-come 1.6.3 or a 1.7x like a difficulty menu tweak could.
I know that is the problem. I was commenting that it was stupid that this was a problem because the fix for this should be so simple on Mojang's part.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0OtPNZX22RvZVeq4-dHa8GYKOc5lojKX
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a hard-only or a /gamerule solution to bridge the gap between now and when they get something like this going (assuming they do). I hadn't thought of the xp grinders though. It's a good point, too. I'm not sure what could be done short of saying "Move it to an abandoned city." Which I'd say is almost as condescending as saying "Just play Creative/on Peaceful." or "Just sleep in your bed/hide inside your house all night."
All of them sound like "Just be better at the game, idiot." to me....
There really isn't an easy solution, is there?
EDIT: Or maybe there is? What if, in addition to the city, the social zombie mechanics were ALSO a gamerule for regular zombies (preferrably defaulted to off)?
There will always be beginners and casuals in Minecraft that don't want to be forced to play on peaceful, but don't want to deal with anything more difficult than what they've been used to forever. I realize that many people seem to want more challenge, but not everyone does. Until Mojang realizes this, and removes all of this additional "difficulty" (yes, it still belongs in sarcasm quotes) from at least the "Easy" setting, these changes will continue to cause beginners and casuals to abandon the game (or not update).
Indeed. It seems like some who like the zombies as they are just want the game plain harder; they have no patience for those who like it as it was before and could care less if they're trying to cope with it. "We like it hard mode in ALL da modes!"
But honestly I like your alternate solution.
I thinky your exaggerating how easy the game might have been. Downgrade back to 1.5 and tell me if you could just hole up around a tree after first spawning. Tell me and survive the whole game; and then we talk.