Again, the blacksmith doesn't offer you diamond equipment straight off. You still have to fulfill a lot of deals for him to give you diamond equipment. That includes buying an iron sword. Although maybe the system is randomized. I still doubt you would be able to get diamond equipment immediately.
Besides, diamonds aren't that hard to find. Hard of course, meaning dangerous. Strip mining is still more effective than finding a village, making a lot of trades with the blacksmith, and then getting diamond equipment.
So really, trading for diamonds is ultimately not a viable method. Especially considering this recent change in the system where testificates will sometimes call for more than one thing for a trade.
As I understand it, the initial offers ARE randomized (as are future offers). Based on what the wiki says anyway. Sort of an odd system.
It does depend on the situation though. Right now, I can see trading for diamond equipment (once it's available from them) as being WAY easier, particularly with those prices. Even without wheat, it's not THAT hard to get plenty of the different items for trade, and could be less time consuming (and less dangerous, depending on the player of course) than just going after diamonds to craft it yourself.
And the more-than-just-emeralds to buy things bit.... is interesting. Right now though it seems ONLY Flint has that cost (emerald + 10 gravel). Having some more items that do this when you go to buy them might not be a bad idea.
I got a good laugh out of this because your avatar matches the expression in your comment. Facepalming because of locklear and what have you.
As to Locklear's comment about Minecraft and its "set path". Are you serious? Nothing is forcing you to go meet and beat The End, there's no reward (save for some EXP) for killing the dragon either. Minecraft was made to be a sandbox-like game with NO "set path" as you call it.
Minecraft is not a pure sandbox game. It's an open ended Survival game, with RPG and Sandbox Elements. It can also be a creative outlet, and a adventure game.
And yes there is a set path.
Make a home
Get Diamond
Nether Gate
Nether
Ender Pearls
Stronghold
End
Enderdragon
Win game.
How is that not a path? No you don't have to do it, but it is a path
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
zooggydog has a point here. Mining for diamonds is simply tedious, not challenging.
However, let's do some math here: you can sell, on average, 19.5 wheats to get one emerald. On average, is costs 12.5 emeralds to buy a diamond sword. This is an average of 243.75 wheats for a single diamond sword. A diamond sword requires two diamonds to craft, so this can be seen as an average of 121.875 wheats per diamond. This is less than two stacks per diamond, and I chose one of the most expensive prices per diamond. It is pretty easy to get wheat, as other people have mentioned, so getting two stacks of wheat should not be a problem, especially with bone meal. So, it should not take too long to get less than four stacks of wheat for a brand new diamond sword. I now think the price shouldn't be too high, as obtaining diamonds isn't exactly challenging, but the current price is just too low.
Minecraft is not a pure sandbox game. It's an open ended Survival game, with RPG and Sandbox Elements. It can also be a creative outlet, and a adventure game.
And yes there is a set path.
Make a home
Get Diamond
Nether Gate
Nether
Ender Pearls
Stronghold
End
Enderdragon
Win game.
How is that not a path? No you don't have to do it, but it is a path
Simple:
Be a nomad
Ignore diamond, use everything else
Don't go to nether
Don't use ender pearls (unless you have snapshot to make enderchest)
Don't go to stronghold
Don't access the end
Don't fight enderdragon
There's no real way to win this game
You're not obligated to do anything in a set way. It is for you maybe, but not everyone is like you.
Be a nomad
Ignore diamond, use everything else
Don't go to nether
Don't use ender pearls (unless you have snapshot to make enderchest)
Don't go to stronghold
Don't access the end
Don't fight enderdragon
There's no real way to win this game
You're not obligated to do anything in a set way. It is for you maybe, but not everyone is like you.
I'm pretty sure he meant there's a set path FOR THAT QUEST (and there is, at least to an extent). A specific way to go about reaching & beating the Enderdragon. Not a specific way to PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME.
I'm pretty sure he meant there's a set path FOR THAT QUEST (and there is, at least to an extent). A specific way to go about reaching & beating the Enderdragon. Not a specific way to PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME.
Well, you still don't have to get diamonds. You don't have to build a base. It's certainly easier if you do that, but that doesn't mean you have to. So no, you don't have a set path to the Enderdragon outside of collecting enderpearls, blaze powder, and locating the portal.
zooggydog has a point here. Mining for diamonds is simply tedious, not challenging.
omg mister...if you find tedious exploring caves (because strip mining is just an option) you should really think on playing another game...Minecraft is about exploring caves..... is the core of Minecraft
I'm pretty sure he meant there's a set path FOR THAT QUEST (and there is, at least to an extent). A specific way to go about reaching & beating the Enderdragon. Not a specific way to PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME.
And that's really the part where 1.8 failed.
Rather than just be something else that you can do in the world, having linear achievements and an "end" establishes something that never needed to be. Once you ignore those achievements (they always get reset anyway) really the only thing that strongholds encompass is just a bit of adventuring that you can do when you get bored of mining, building, and farming. That's probably why it was dubbed "The Adventure Update." Adventuring is just something else to do in the world. Just like trading is something else to do in the world.
As for the nether... You don't need diamond to get there. You never actually did, and when it was added it was added just as this other, potentially more dangerous place to go to; which renders that whole notion of progression moot. You don't actually even need a pickaxe if you're lucky enough with caves and dungeons. Iron and buckets from chests. Obsidian from lava and water. Don't even need torches if the End is your only objective.
Rather than just be something else that you can do in the world, having linear achievements and an "end" establishes something that never needed to be. Once you ignore those achievements (they always get reset anyway) really the only thing that strongholds encompass is just a bit of adventuring that you can do when you get bored of mining, building, and farming. That's probably why it was dubbed "The Adventure Update." Adventuring is just something else to do in the world. Just like trading is something else to do in the world.
As for the nether... You don't need diamond to get there. You never actually did, and when it was added it was added just as this other, potentially more dangerous place to go to; which renders that whole notion of progression moot. You don't actually even need a pickaxe if you're lucky enough with caves and dungeons. Iron and buckets from chests. Obsidian from lava and water. Don't even need torches if the End is your only objective.
Oh I'm well aware of all of that.
Most players, though, likely wont use those tactics (and I personally haaaaaaaate making gates by using buckets & lava).
That's the basic way of going through that "quest" is that list, but even just with the way minecraft works, there's always gonna be options.
......but being able to essentially trade blobs of wheat for the Ender Eyes seems TOO simple to me, for those that wanna do that. At the same time though, I sorta understand it with the addition of the Ender Chest; still, some items should be at least fairly difficult to get, and that's one of them.
I dont think that update failed though (I definitely liked the potion/enchanting systems, and the various new monsters and structures), but that quest bit could have been harder overall. Though to be fair, I'm used to ridiculously difficult games (danmaku shmups), so my perception of difficulty (and my ideas of what I want THIS game to be, in terms of that) is definitely a little warped. If the game isnt violently spraying horrible lightning death at me every 5 seconds, it's probably not hard enough, by my standards.
Nice post, but you are expecting, that you have already are wheat farm and a lot of bone meal. For those you have to invest several hours first, where you can dig for diamonds.
Starting with a new world it will take time to set up such a farm, getting the bone meal and finding a village. Sorry, but you are all talking about existing worlds. The balancing for a new world ist quite good i think.
EDIT: And don't forget: If you're just going for wheat you can just buy diamond stuff. When you're mining you get diamonds, iron, gold and so on. I think it's okay.
Ah, but the RNG isnt always like that.
I started a new world with this update, and had found a large village within 5 minutes once I started exploring even just a little. I only had time enough to play for about an hour, but that got an initial structure set up, the beginning of a mine, finding a proper cave to explore, finding the village, and beginning to set up a wheat farm; and all the while, smacking various mobs for items. It wouldnt take long at all to buy those things the first time, and the first time is the only time it'll take even THAT long, since every time after that, you already HAVE the wheat farm or whatever.
And while wheat takes a bit of time to prepare.... it's not like you have to sell ONLY wheat. Combining it with other things (like splattering chickens and selling those for some emeralds as well) will speed things up. And the wheat itself takes no effort; you plant it, you do other stuff WHILE it's growing. Not hard (or time consuming) to set up automated harvesting of the stuff either.
So mining is too tedious now? :/ Really People? It's Mine-Craft. Diamond needs to be very difficult to get. Why? Because it's diamond, it's not some kind of shitty material we are talking about people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I'm really okay with diamonds being traded as long as it's forced to be on the last couple pages of trade(people said in snapshots 21 that they sold it on first page sometimes).
--I think they should set the system to account for how long it would take to just run thru the game and get the items your selling. It should cost the same amount of time getting the wheat with bonemeal than the average time it takes to find diamond at the correct level with an average digging speed. It's not going to be totally accurate because there's so many variables, but you get the idea.
So mining is too tedious now? :/ Really People? It's Mine-Craft. Diamond needs to be very difficult to get. Why? Because it's diamond, it's not some kind of shitty material we are talking about people.
We never said anything about spelunking. We're talking about digging a stairway to the bottom of the world and destroying blocks in a straight line until you find diamonds. That's tedious. You can go spelunking all you want and have a grand old time, but it's more efficient to strip mine. It's also regarded as a legitimate way to get diamonds, but I don't see you complaining about that.
So does that mean villagers should even sell dragon eggs?
I think you completely missed the point of that statement. We're not talking about getting a drop from the only boss in the game. We're talking about diamonds, which are just tedious to get.
I think you completely missed the point of that statement. We're not talking about getting a drop from the only boss in the game. We're talking about diamonds, which are just tedious to get.
Everything in the entire game is tedious under that logic. We should be able to buy anything, because I shouldn't have to mine or do anything related to mining. Let's just rename the game Trade-Craft.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
omg mister...if you find tedious exploring caves (because strip mining is just an option) you should really think on playing another game...Minecraft is about exploring caves..... is the core of Minecraft
Seriously? You think the sole purpose of Minecraft is exploring caves? Why should I play another game if there are many, many other things to do in Minecraft? Your logic is completely flawed.
Edit: Look, just because you think that cave exploration is the core of Minecraft, it doesn't mean it actually is. You have to remember that your playing style isn't the only playing style. And I do explore caves; it's just that I rarely find diamonds in them, which still means harvesting wheat is faster.
Nice post, but you are expecting, that you have already are wheat farm and a lot of bone meal. For those you have to invest several hours first, where you can dig for diamonds.
Starting with a new world it will take time to set up such a farm, getting the bone meal and finding a village. Sorry, but you are all talking about existing worlds. The balancing for a new world ist quite good i think.
EDIT: And don't forget: If you're just going for wheat you can just buy diamond stuff. When you're mining you get diamonds, iron, gold and so on. I think it's okay.
I'm glad you're being logical, unlike the other person I responded to. But, I will say this: when you start a new world, it doesn't take that much effort to set up a farm. Just make some stone hoes, and till some dirt. While this may still take a lot of time in comparison to other things, it isn't that much slower than looking for diamonds, and once it is set up, it could give diamonds much faster. Only a single diamond vein generates per chunk; and that's assuming that nothing generated over the vein.
It will take several time first to collect the seeds and waiting the wheat to grow. In this time you can already go for diamonds. There are some videos on youtube with guys finding diamonds in under 3 minutes.But when you have set up the farm( with autoharvest), then you're 100% right.
Maybe you think that's wrong and that's okay, but i like the idea of settling down to have an constant flow of materials. Maybe the the wheat/emerald ratio is a bit too low, but it's almost perfect for me.
=> Building House
=> Gather the first diamonds
=> Set up farms
=> Finding village
=> And so on
(I have an auto harvesting wheat farm, which yields 2,5 stacks. But it took it's time to set it up and replant it again every time. I get 8 emeralds/harvest. This is not even a diamond pickaxe. Sure you can build it bigger, but that will lengthen the build and replant time. Remember that you get redstone and other materials too, when you are mining. I think it's okay. I don't mind if the ratio even worse, but think of all the casuals. They don't want to invest too much time to set up so big wheat farms.)
I guess it depends on the style of playing. I usually set up my farms first, so I have enough food to mine without going hungry.
I see your point about the time it takes to set up and replant. However, when you make your farm bigger, all you do is place dirt then hoe. When you harvest wheat then replant it, all you do is left-click then right-click. But, remembering that you get other materials, I guess the current price isn't that bad. I just hope that in the full release, the prices make more sense. (For example, diamond tools aren't worth that much more than iron tools, but are much better. Also, a diamond sword costs more than a diamond pickaxe, even though the sword requires less diamonds and gives you no extra funcionality.)
Everything in the entire game is tedious under that logic. We should be able to buy anything, because I shouldn't have to mine or do anything related to mining. Let's just rename the game Trade-Craft.
Yeah, that was pretty much the point I was trying to make. If they say it's all about gamestyle, then why don't villagers sell everything? I mean, fighting the dragon is forcing them to be a 'warrior' game style, that's just not right!
As I understand it, the initial offers ARE randomized (as are future offers). Based on what the wiki says anyway. Sort of an odd system.
It does depend on the situation though. Right now, I can see trading for diamond equipment (once it's available from them) as being WAY easier, particularly with those prices. Even without wheat, it's not THAT hard to get plenty of the different items for trade, and could be less time consuming (and less dangerous, depending on the player of course) than just going after diamonds to craft it yourself.
And the more-than-just-emeralds to buy things bit.... is interesting. Right now though it seems ONLY Flint has that cost (emerald + 10 gravel). Having some more items that do this when you go to buy them might not be a bad idea.
Minecraft is not a pure sandbox game. It's an open ended Survival game, with RPG and Sandbox Elements. It can also be a creative outlet, and a adventure game.
And yes there is a set path.
Make a home
Get Diamond
Nether Gate
Nether
Ender Pearls
Stronghold
End
Enderdragon
Win game.
How is that not a path? No you don't have to do it, but it is a path
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
However, let's do some math here: you can sell, on average, 19.5 wheats to get one emerald. On average, is costs 12.5 emeralds to buy a diamond sword. This is an average of 243.75 wheats for a single diamond sword. A diamond sword requires two diamonds to craft, so this can be seen as an average of 121.875 wheats per diamond. This is less than two stacks per diamond, and I chose one of the most expensive prices per diamond. It is pretty easy to get wheat, as other people have mentioned, so getting two stacks of wheat should not be a problem, especially with bone meal. So, it should not take too long to get less than four stacks of wheat for a brand new diamond sword. I now think the price shouldn't be too high, as obtaining diamonds isn't exactly challenging, but the current price is just too low.
Simple:
Be a nomad
Ignore diamond, use everything else
Don't go to nether
Don't use ender pearls (unless you have snapshot to make enderchest)
Don't go to stronghold
Don't access the end
Don't fight enderdragon
There's no real way to win this game
You're not obligated to do anything in a set way. It is for you maybe, but not everyone is like you.
I'm pretty sure he meant there's a set path FOR THAT QUEST (and there is, at least to an extent). A specific way to go about reaching & beating the Enderdragon. Not a specific way to PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME.
Well, you still don't have to get diamonds. You don't have to build a base. It's certainly easier if you do that, but that doesn't mean you have to. So no, you don't have a set path to the Enderdragon outside of collecting enderpearls, blaze powder, and locating the portal.
omg mister...if you find tedious exploring caves (because strip mining is just an option) you should really think on playing another game...Minecraft is about exploring caves..... is the core of Minecraft
And that's really the part where 1.8 failed.
Rather than just be something else that you can do in the world, having linear achievements and an "end" establishes something that never needed to be. Once you ignore those achievements (they always get reset anyway) really the only thing that strongholds encompass is just a bit of adventuring that you can do when you get bored of mining, building, and farming. That's probably why it was dubbed "The Adventure Update." Adventuring is just something else to do in the world. Just like trading is something else to do in the world.
As for the nether... You don't need diamond to get there. You never actually did, and when it was added it was added just as this other, potentially more dangerous place to go to; which renders that whole notion of progression moot. You don't actually even need a pickaxe if you're lucky enough with caves and dungeons. Iron and buckets from chests. Obsidian from lava and water. Don't even need torches if the End is your only objective.
Oh I'm well aware of all of that.
Most players, though, likely wont use those tactics (and I personally haaaaaaaate making gates by using buckets & lava).
That's the basic way of going through that "quest" is that list, but even just with the way minecraft works, there's always gonna be options.
......but being able to essentially trade blobs of wheat for the Ender Eyes seems TOO simple to me, for those that wanna do that. At the same time though, I sorta understand it with the addition of the Ender Chest; still, some items should be at least fairly difficult to get, and that's one of them.
I dont think that update failed though (I definitely liked the potion/enchanting systems, and the various new monsters and structures), but that quest bit could have been harder overall. Though to be fair, I'm used to ridiculously difficult games (danmaku shmups), so my perception of difficulty (and my ideas of what I want THIS game to be, in terms of that) is definitely a little warped. If the game isnt violently spraying horrible lightning death at me every 5 seconds, it's probably not hard enough, by my standards.
Ah, but the RNG isnt always like that.
I started a new world with this update, and had found a large village within 5 minutes once I started exploring even just a little. I only had time enough to play for about an hour, but that got an initial structure set up, the beginning of a mine, finding a proper cave to explore, finding the village, and beginning to set up a wheat farm; and all the while, smacking various mobs for items. It wouldnt take long at all to buy those things the first time, and the first time is the only time it'll take even THAT long, since every time after that, you already HAVE the wheat farm or whatever.
And while wheat takes a bit of time to prepare.... it's not like you have to sell ONLY wheat. Combining it with other things (like splattering chickens and selling those for some emeralds as well) will speed things up. And the wheat itself takes no effort; you plant it, you do other stuff WHILE it's growing. Not hard (or time consuming) to set up automated harvesting of the stuff either.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
As far as I can tell right now. Getting 32 emeralds wouldn't take more than 30 minutes to an hour. Actually, most likely faster if I tried.
Diamond is the key super item in the game. It just needs to remain underground, and hard to found.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
--I think they should set the system to account for how long it would take to just run thru the game and get the items your selling. It should cost the same amount of time getting the wheat with bonemeal than the average time it takes to find diamond at the correct level with an average digging speed. It's not going to be totally accurate because there's so many variables, but you get the idea.
We never said anything about spelunking. We're talking about digging a stairway to the bottom of the world and destroying blocks in a straight line until you find diamonds. That's tedious. You can go spelunking all you want and have a grand old time, but it's more efficient to strip mine. It's also regarded as a legitimate way to get diamonds, but I don't see you complaining about that.
So what you're basically saying is that you don't want anybody else to have a different playing style and should instead do everything just like you?
That's pretty intolerant of you.
I think you completely missed the point of that statement. We're not talking about getting a drop from the only boss in the game. We're talking about diamonds, which are just tedious to get.
Everything in the entire game is tedious under that logic. We should be able to buy anything, because I shouldn't have to mine or do anything related to mining. Let's just rename the game Trade-Craft.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Seriously? You think the sole purpose of Minecraft is exploring caves? Why should I play another game if there are many, many other things to do in Minecraft? Your logic is completely flawed.
Edit: Look, just because you think that cave exploration is the core of Minecraft, it doesn't mean it actually is. You have to remember that your playing style isn't the only playing style. And I do explore caves; it's just that I rarely find diamonds in them, which still means harvesting wheat is faster.
I'm glad you're being logical, unlike the other person I responded to. But, I will say this: when you start a new world, it doesn't take that much effort to set up a farm. Just make some stone hoes, and till some dirt. While this may still take a lot of time in comparison to other things, it isn't that much slower than looking for diamonds, and once it is set up, it could give diamonds much faster. Only a single diamond vein generates per chunk; and that's assuming that nothing generated over the vein.
I guess it depends on the style of playing. I usually set up my farms first, so I have enough food to mine without going hungry.
I see your point about the time it takes to set up and replant. However, when you make your farm bigger, all you do is place dirt then hoe. When you harvest wheat then replant it, all you do is left-click then right-click. But, remembering that you get other materials, I guess the current price isn't that bad. I just hope that in the full release, the prices make more sense. (For example, diamond tools aren't worth that much more than iron tools, but are much better. Also, a diamond sword costs more than a diamond pickaxe, even though the sword requires less diamonds and gives you no extra funcionality.)